One of the biggest arguments people have about our healthcare system is the illusion of “choice”

[Rigby5]

It's not health care that's the big issue... but lawn care.

I demand the government provide Universal Lawn Care...

There is an inherent right to life, but not an inherent right to lawn care.

 

[there4eyeM]

"Free market"! Now we delve into humor.

 

[Norman]

"Free market"! Now we delve into humor.

Free markets... that's what the country is founded on. Health care is none of the federal government's business.

Not surprised that an anti-American finds freedom a joke.

 

[Rigby5]

The OP is right, we need more free market principles in health care. A lot more choice...

No one size fits all socialist bullshit in a country of 315 million.

No, a free market means no laws to prevent abuses like fraud, extortion, monopolies, etc.
At most what you meant was a fair market.

But just like you need public education, you need public health care.
That is because the profit motive does not work for health care.
Then doctors would all go into plastic surgery and not lesser profitable things like immunization.
In fact, not enough can even afford to become doctors if not for socialism subsidizing tuition.

 

[Bush92]

Our wonderful utopian for-profit healthcare system gives Americans CHOICE. Americans gotta have that choice! We can choose our own doctors and Medicare for all would take that way!

It’s possible such a socialist system would, but not necessarily. Let’s pretend it did though. What other “choices” does our current healthcare system offer? Low paying premiums & high deductibles vs high paying monthly premiums & lower deductibles? Rationing essential but unaffordable medicine? That’s some fucking choice right there! That’s the American way! Go bankrupt over healthcare costs!

You know the rich and middle class would need to pay more in taxes with a Medicare for all system, but they would still ultimately save money by not having to worry about monthly premiums, prescription costs, Co-pays, and high deductibles.

Life cost $$$

 

[Norman]

The OP is right, we need more free market principles in health care. A lot more choice...

No one size fits all socialist bullshit in a country of 315 million.

No, a free market means no laws to prevent abuses like fraud, extortion, monopolies, etc.
At most what you meant was a fair market.

But just like you need public education, you need public health care.
That is because the profit motive does not work for health care.
Then doctors would all go into plastic surgery and not lesser profitable things like immunization.
In fact, not enough can even afford to become doctors if not for socialism subsidizing tuition.

That's not what free market means you moron.

Fraud is not legal under free market.

Now free market does mean no free shit, which means you are out of luck. Freedom over free shit is what the country was founded on.

 

[Rigby5]

One of the biggest arguments people have about our healthcare system is the illusion of “choice”
That is quite an illusion. Many people have illusory ideas about this and other aspects of society. Fixed ideas from the past in general qualify. Many profound changes will occur. They could be for the better if we use wisdom and compassion.

How can there be choice, when must Americans are dependent on their employer for their HC?

So you feel choice is important?

Guess when there is no choice? When Sanders has made private insurance illegal and nationalized the industry. That's also when any sort of RnD and innovation stops.

Again you’re failing to comprehend. The point made above was Americans believe they have a choice, but they really don’t.

Americans have more choice than under Bernie's totalitarian system.

That is silly, because there is nothing remotely totalitarian about public health care.
Socialism does not mean you can't buy private insurance or health care, but just that public health care would be made available for free or very inexpensive.
We know what it is like, because almost every country in the world has socialized medicine, and it works much better than what we have.
We are ranked 37 which is very low.
http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/best-healthcare-in-the-world/

 

[Bush92]

You have a choice ... pay for healthcare or don't.

What other choice do you want?

Thanks for simplifying that for us. People can choose between dying and surviving. You’re so right.

Everyone makes that choice. Did you believe you were exempt?

I have bad news for you.

I agree. Looking at my birth certificate I can find nothing on it that indicates I'm entitled to anything.

 

[Rigby5]

The OP is right, we need more free market principles in health care. A lot more choice...

No one size fits all socialist bullshit in a country of 315 million.

No, a free market means no laws to prevent abuses like fraud, extortion, monopolies, etc.
At most what you meant was a fair market.

But just like you need public education, you need public health care.
That is because the profit motive does not work for health care.
Then doctors would all go into plastic surgery and not lesser profitable things like immunization.
In fact, not enough can even afford to become doctors if not for socialism subsidizing tuition.

That's not what free market means you moron.

Fraud is not legal under free market.

Now free market does mean no free shit, which means you are out of luck. Freedom over free shit is what the country was founded on.

You just do not know what "free market" means.
It means NO laws.
A free market means you are free to steal, murder, sell snake oil, lock out, monopolize, or anything at all.
Free means exactly that, no restraints at all.
Laws are restraints, so is not a free market.

 

[Bush92]

It's not health care that's the big issue... but lawn care.

I demand the government provide Universal Lawn Care...

There is an inherent right to life, but not an inherent right to lawn care.

Remember this statement for your next abortion discussion.

 

[pknopp]

The OP is right, we need more free market principles in health care. A lot more choice...

No one size fits all socialist bullshit in a country of 315 million.

Choice. This is choice when profits are all that determines health care access..

Gov. Justice meets with Fairmont Regional Medical Center officials to discuss hospital’s future

This hospital (along with a couple of others) was bought up by a group that sells stocks to finance the purchase and then lease the hospital out. When the profits are not high enough they close the hospitals down.

In this case the group that purchased the hospital expects and ever higher return and the group that leases the hospital expects the same.

 

[Norman]

One of the biggest arguments people have about our healthcare system is the illusion of “choice”
That is quite an illusion. Many people have illusory ideas about this and other aspects of society. Fixed ideas from the past in general qualify. Many profound changes will occur. They could be for the better if we use wisdom and compassion.

How can there be choice, when must Americans are dependent on their employer for their HC?

So you feel choice is important?

Guess when there is no choice? When Sanders has made private insurance illegal and nationalized the industry. That's also when any sort of RnD and innovation stops.

Again you’re failing to comprehend. The point made above was Americans believe they have a choice, but they really don’t.

Americans have more choice than under Bernie's totalitarian system.

That is silly, because there is nothing remotely totalitarian about public health care.
Socialism does not mean you can't buy private insurance or health care, but just that public health care would be made available for free or very inexpensive.
We know what it is like, because almost every country in the world has socialized medicine, and it works much better than what we have.
We are ranked 37 which is very low.
http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/best-healthcare-in-the-world/

So if there is nothing remotely totalitarian about universal health care, what if I want to opt out and not pay for your free shit? I assume that's an option.

 

[Rigby5]

You have a choice ... pay for healthcare or don't.

What other choice do you want?

Thanks for simplifying that for us. People can choose between dying and surviving. You’re so right.

Everyone makes that choice. Did you believe you were exempt?

I have bad news for you.

I agree. Looking at my birth certificate I can find nothing on it that indicates I'm entitled to anything.

When we decide we want a better society, we elect to provide entitlements.
For example, free roads instead of all toll roads, free public education, free fire fighting, etc.
It makes for a better society.
We all enjoy the improvements.

And free health care would also make the whole society much better.

 

[SmokeALib]

You have a choice ... pay for healthcare or don't.

What other choice do you want?

Thanks for simplifying that for us. People can choose between dying and surviving. You’re so right.

Everyone makes that choice. Did you believe you were exempt?

I have bad news for you.

I agree. Looking at my birth certificate I can find nothing on it that indicates I'm entitled to anything.

When we decide we want a better society, we elect to provide entitlements.
For example, free roads instead of all toll roads, free public education, free fire fighting, etc.
It makes for a better society.
We all enjoy the improvements.

And free health care would also make the whole society much better.

Utopia!

 

[Norman]

There is nothing totalitarian about universal health care, but it refuses care to people who fund the system aka. "racists".



Rigby5 is an anti-American bigot.

 

[Rigby5]

How can there be choice, when must Americans are dependent on their employer for their HC?

So you feel choice is important?

Guess when there is no choice? When Sanders has made private insurance illegal and nationalized the industry. That's also when any sort of RnD and innovation stops.

Again you’re failing to comprehend. The point made above was Americans believe they have a choice, but they really don’t.

Americans have more choice than under Bernie's totalitarian system.

That is silly, because there is nothing remotely totalitarian about public health care.
Socialism does not mean you can't buy private insurance or health care, but just that public health care would be made available for free or very inexpensive.
We know what it is like, because almost every country in the world has socialized medicine, and it works much better than what we have.
We are ranked 37 which is very low.
http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/best-healthcare-in-the-world/

So if there is nothing remotely totalitarian about universal health care, what if I want to opt out and not pay for your free shit? I assume that's an option.

No that is not an option because all humans in a human society do have an obligation to the health and welfare of all other humans in the society.
However, your share is so small that it does you no harm, because there are so many others in the pool.
Totalitarian is when when you are forced to do something unfair or not a normal human responsibility.

And what you have to remember is that currently you are paying more than twice what public health care would cost under socialism. That is proven by all other countries in the world. So you can't complain about socialism since it saves you money.

 

[Norman]

You have a choice ... pay for healthcare or don't.

What other choice do you want?

Thanks for simplifying that for us. People can choose between dying and surviving. You’re so right.

Everyone makes that choice. Did you believe you were exempt?

I have bad news for you.

I agree. Looking at my birth certificate I can find nothing on it that indicates I'm entitled to anything.

When we decide we want a better society, we elect to provide entitlements.
For example, free roads instead of all toll roads, free public education, free fire fighting, etc.
It makes for a better society.
We all enjoy the improvements.

And free health care would also make the whole society much better.

You want better society for moochers, not for me, not for Americans.

To me your society is objectively worse in every way. Speak only for yourself, you are not speaking for others.

 

[Norman]

So you feel choice is important?

Guess when there is no choice? When Sanders has made private insurance illegal and nationalized the industry. That's also when any sort of RnD and innovation stops.

Again you’re failing to comprehend. The point made above was Americans believe they have a choice, but they really don’t.

Americans have more choice than under Bernie's totalitarian system.

That is silly, because there is nothing remotely totalitarian about public health care.
Socialism does not mean you can't buy private insurance or health care, but just that public health care would be made available for free or very inexpensive.
We know what it is like, because almost every country in the world has socialized medicine, and it works much better than what we have.
We are ranked 37 which is very low.
http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/best-healthcare-in-the-world/

So if there is nothing remotely totalitarian about universal health care, what if I want to opt out and not pay for your free shit? I assume that's an option.

No that is not an option because all humans in a human society do have an obligation to the health and welfare of all other humans in the society.

That's not what the constitution says. Oh you are talking about the communist manifesto, yes according to that document we are responsible for providing free shit for morons indeed.

Haul your ass out of our country, anti-American bigot.

 

[Rigby5]

There is nothing totalitarian about universal health care, but it refuses care to people who fund the system aka. "racists".



Rigby5 is an anti-American bigot.

No, racists are not excluded from getting health care in any country with socialized medicine.

 

[Rigby5]

You have a choice ... pay for healthcare or don't.

What other choice do you want?

Thanks for simplifying that for us. People can choose between dying and surviving. You’re so right.

Everyone makes that choice. Did you believe you were exempt?

I have bad news for you.

I agree. Looking at my birth certificate I can find nothing on it that indicates I'm entitled to anything.

When we decide we want a better society, we elect to provide entitlements.
For example, free roads instead of all toll roads, free public education, free fire fighting, etc.
It makes for a better society.
We all enjoy the improvements.

And free health care would also make the whole society much better.

You want better society for moochers, not for me, not for Americans.

To me your society is objectively worse in every way. Speak only for yourself, you are not speaking for others.

Public health care is much cheaper and better quality than what we pay and get now, so there is no reason to be against it.