One of the biggest arguments people have about our healthcare system is the illusion of “choice”

[pknopp]

We are paying enormous sums now for healthcare, much more per person than many other nations with healthcare just as good as in the U.S. It is unarguable that we could improve things for everyone while spending less total.
Calling it 'socialism' is just a cheap argument for doing nothing.

You think the presence of 100 million taxpayer dependent illegal beaners has anything to do with our of control healthcare costs? How about a destroyed education system...do they have anything to with that? How about failing infrastructure? How about overworked, understaffed, worthless public services? How about community, city and state degradation...do they have anything to do with that?
You force our good real American taxpayers to pay and reward Guadalupe for giving birth to more of her filthy same all while husband Gustavo works for cash off the books with a negative effective tax rate.
The aforementioned is the part of our system your Mexicrats have FUCKED up. We’ll never get ahead by paying the citizens of Mexico to fuck our people over. Sorry.

If you support politicians (Trump and others) that ignore the employers employing illegals you have no soap box to stand on here.

Link me to a post authored by a Conservative where he/she showed "support" for those employing illegals.
Do you need me to link you to the hundreds of posts by Lefties pissing themselves, calling for abolishing iCE and protecting illegals anytime the raid of a business has gone down? How about the plethora of legislation written by Mexicrats that provides protection for illegals seeking employment and prohibits employers from digging too deep on citizenship status?

What one says matters none. It's what one does that matters. What we do is absolutely nothing about those employing millions of illegals.

 

[BrokeLoser]

We are paying enormous sums now for healthcare, much more per person than many other nations with healthcare just as good as in the U.S. It is unarguable that we could improve things for everyone while spending less total.
Calling it 'socialism' is just a cheap argument for doing nothing.

You think the presence of 100 million taxpayer dependent illegal beaners has anything to do with our of control healthcare costs? How about a destroyed education system...do they have anything to with that? How about failing infrastructure? How about overworked, understaffed, worthless public services? How about community, city and state degradation...do they have anything to do with that?
You force our good real American taxpayers to pay and reward Guadalupe for giving birth to more of her filthy same all while husband Gustavo works for cash off the books with a negative effective tax rate.
The aforementioned is the part of our system your Mexicrats have FUCKED up. We’ll never get ahead by paying the citizens of Mexico to fuck our people over. Sorry.

If you support politicians (Trump and others) that ignore the employers employing illegals you have no soap box to stand on here.

Link me to a post authored by a Conservative where he/she showed "support" for those employing illegals.
Do you need me to link you to the hundreds of posts by Lefties pissing themselves, calling for abolishing iCE and protecting illegals anytime the raid of a business has gone down? How about the plethora of legislation written by Mexicrats that provides protection for illegals seeking employment and prohibits employers from digging too deep on citizenship status?

What one says matters none. It's what one does that matters. What we do is absolutely nothing about those employing millions of illegals.

I totally get the LefTarded spin behind your ludicrous premise...you hate accountability for perpetrators...I get it.
You need to believe they are only perpetrators of crime because they are compelled....you hate to resolve issues / crime at the point of origin...in this case at our border when that illegal steps on our soil.

This LefTarded spin is so damn fascinating....You sometimes seeming smart people don't realize just how stupid you sound.
"I bought and did the drugs because the drug dealer was on the corner selling them..it's his fault that I'm a drug addict."
"The liquor store on the corner is responsible for my alcoholism."
"I'm only a prostitute because a man offered me money for my puss...he made me do it."
"If you leave the keys in the ignition and you car is stolen it is not the thief's fault."

Please listen to yourselves once in a while...you'll stay somewhat credible if you do.

 

[pknopp]

We are paying enormous sums now for healthcare, much more per person than many other nations with healthcare just as good as in the U.S. It is unarguable that we could improve things for everyone while spending less total.
Calling it 'socialism' is just a cheap argument for doing nothing.

You think the presence of 100 million taxpayer dependent illegal beaners has anything to do with our of control healthcare costs? How about a destroyed education system...do they have anything to with that? How about failing infrastructure? How about overworked, understaffed, worthless public services? How about community, city and state degradation...do they have anything to do with that?
You force our good real American taxpayers to pay and reward Guadalupe for giving birth to more of her filthy same all while husband Gustavo works for cash off the books with a negative effective tax rate.
The aforementioned is the part of our system your Mexicrats have FUCKED up. We’ll never get ahead by paying the citizens of Mexico to fuck our people over. Sorry.

If you support politicians (Trump and others) that ignore the employers employing illegals you have no soap box to stand on here.

Link me to a post authored by a Conservative where he/she showed "support" for those employing illegals.
Do you need me to link you to the hundreds of posts by Lefties pissing themselves, calling for abolishing iCE and protecting illegals anytime the raid of a business has gone down? How about the plethora of legislation written by Mexicrats that provides protection for illegals seeking employment and prohibits employers from digging too deep on citizenship status?

What one says matters none. It's what one does that matters. What we do is absolutely nothing about those employing millions of illegals.

I totally get the LefTarded spin behind your ludicrous premise...you hate accountability for perpetrators...I get it.
You need to believe they are only perpetrators of crime because they are compelled....you hate to resolve issues / crime at the point of origin...in this case at our border when that illegal steps on our soil.

This LefTarded spin is so damn fascinating....You sometimes seeming smart people don't realize just how stupid you sound.
"I bought and did the drugs because the drug dealer was on the corner selling them..it's his fault that I'm a drug addict."
"The liquor store on the corner is responsible for my alcoholism."
"I'm only a prostitute because a man offered me money for my puss...he made me do it."
"If you leave the keys in the ignition and you car is stolen it is not the thief's fault."

Please listen to yourselves once in a while...you'll stay somewhat credible if you do.

I'm the one asking for accountability. You are making the excuses.

 

[BrokeLoser]

You think the presence of 100 million taxpayer dependent illegal beaners has anything to do with our of control healthcare costs? How about a destroyed education system...do they have anything to with that? How about failing infrastructure? How about overworked, understaffed, worthless public services? How about community, city and state degradation...do they have anything to do with that?
You force our good real American taxpayers to pay and reward Guadalupe for giving birth to more of her filthy same all while husband Gustavo works for cash off the books with a negative effective tax rate.
The aforementioned is the part of our system your Mexicrats have FUCKED up. We’ll never get ahead by paying the citizens of Mexico to fuck our people over. Sorry.

If you support politicians (Trump and others) that ignore the employers employing illegals you have no soap box to stand on here.

Link me to a post authored by a Conservative where he/she showed "support" for those employing illegals.
Do you need me to link you to the hundreds of posts by Lefties pissing themselves, calling for abolishing iCE and protecting illegals anytime the raid of a business has gone down? How about the plethora of legislation written by Mexicrats that provides protection for illegals seeking employment and prohibits employers from digging too deep on citizenship status?

What one says matters none. It's what one does that matters. What we do is absolutely nothing about those employing millions of illegals.

I totally get the LefTarded spin behind your ludicrous premise...you hate accountability for perpetrators...I get it.
You need to believe they are only perpetrators of crime because they are compelled....you hate to resolve issues / crime at the point of origin...in this case at our border when that illegal steps on our soil.

This LefTarded spin is so damn fascinating....You sometimes seeming smart people don't realize just how stupid you sound.
"I bought and did the drugs because the drug dealer was on the corner selling them..it's his fault that I'm a drug addict."
"The liquor store on the corner is responsible for my alcoholism."
"I'm only a prostitute because a man offered me money for my puss...he made me do it."
"If you leave the keys in the ignition and you car is stolen it is not the thief's fault."

Please listen to yourselves once in a while...you'll stay somewhat credible if you do.

I'm the one asking for accountability. You are making the excuses.

You're just confused...
The actual crime is not committed by those offering a job...the crime is committed when illegal alien Gustavo decides to traverse our border to seek said job.
The perpetrator of the crime is Gustavo....you still confused?

 

[pknopp]

If you support politicians (Trump and others) that ignore the employers employing illegals you have no soap box to stand on here.

Link me to a post authored by a Conservative where he/she showed "support" for those employing illegals.
Do you need me to link you to the hundreds of posts by Lefties pissing themselves, calling for abolishing iCE and protecting illegals anytime the raid of a business has gone down? How about the plethora of legislation written by Mexicrats that provides protection for illegals seeking employment and prohibits employers from digging too deep on citizenship status?

What one says matters none. It's what one does that matters. What we do is absolutely nothing about those employing millions of illegals.

I totally get the LefTarded spin behind your ludicrous premise...you hate accountability for perpetrators...I get it.
You need to believe they are only perpetrators of crime because they are compelled....you hate to resolve issues / crime at the point of origin...in this case at our border when that illegal steps on our soil.

This LefTarded spin is so damn fascinating....You sometimes seeming smart people don't realize just how stupid you sound.
"I bought and did the drugs because the drug dealer was on the corner selling them..it's his fault that I'm a drug addict."
"The liquor store on the corner is responsible for my alcoholism."
"I'm only a prostitute because a man offered me money for my puss...he made me do it."
"If you leave the keys in the ignition and you car is stolen it is not the thief's fault."

Please listen to yourselves once in a while...you'll stay somewhat credible if you do.

I'm the one asking for accountability. You are making the excuses.

You're just confused...
The actual crime is not committed by those offering a job...the crime is committed when illegal alien Gustavo decides to traverse our border to seek said job.
The perpetrator of the crime is Gustavo....you still confused?

Nope but you obviously are. Crossing the border is a misdemeanor. Hiring an illegal is a felony. Hiring an illegal and on top of that not paying taxes is multiple felonies.

 

[BrokeLoser]

Link me to a post authored by a Conservative where he/she showed "support" for those employing illegals.
Do you need me to link you to the hundreds of posts by Lefties pissing themselves, calling for abolishing iCE and protecting illegals anytime the raid of a business has gone down? How about the plethora of legislation written by Mexicrats that provides protection for illegals seeking employment and prohibits employers from digging too deep on citizenship status?

What one says matters none. It's what one does that matters. What we do is absolutely nothing about those employing millions of illegals.

I totally get the LefTarded spin behind your ludicrous premise...you hate accountability for perpetrators...I get it.
You need to believe they are only perpetrators of crime because they are compelled....you hate to resolve issues / crime at the point of origin...in this case at our border when that illegal steps on our soil.

This LefTarded spin is so damn fascinating....You sometimes seeming smart people don't realize just how stupid you sound.
"I bought and did the drugs because the drug dealer was on the corner selling them..it's his fault that I'm a drug addict."
"The liquor store on the corner is responsible for my alcoholism."
"I'm only a prostitute because a man offered me money for my puss...he made me do it."
"If you leave the keys in the ignition and you car is stolen it is not the thief's fault."

Please listen to yourselves once in a while...you'll stay somewhat credible if you do.

I'm the one asking for accountability. You are making the excuses.

You're just confused...
The actual crime is not committed by those offering a job...the crime is committed when illegal alien Gustavo decides to traverse our border to seek said job.
The perpetrator of the crime is Gustavo....you still confused?

Nope but you obviously are. Crossing the border is a misdemeanor. Hiring an illegal is a felony. Hiring an illegal and on top of that not paying taxes is multiple felonies.

"I bought and did the drugs because the drug dealer was on the corner selling them..it's his fault that I'm a drug addict."
"The liquor store on the corner is responsible for my alcoholism."
"I'm only a prostitute because a man offered me money for my puss...he made me do it."
"If you leave the keys in the ignition and you car is stolen it is not the thief's fault."

Please listen to yourselves once in a while...you'll stay somewhat credible if you do.

 

[there4eyeM]

I am currently experiencing the better side of health insurance. Late last year, I was diagnosed with potentially life-ending disease. Three days in the hospital of rigorous testing followed, which determined I need a transplant to survive. In January, two more days of non-stop testing at a transplant center involved just about every type of test you can imagine. Those tests revealed another potentially fatal condition that had to be treated before I could be placed on the transplant list. Complications have required dental procedures, emergency room visits, and handfuls of drugs that must be taken daily.

My wife's insurance provides our coverage an thus far, I have already reached my deductible, and my out of pocket maximum is within sight. I have 4 procedures and appointments scheduled in the next 2 weeks. Any number of those tests and procedures I have had will doon place me over the out of pocket maximum which means I will pat exactly nothing more for my transplant which should occur later this year.

I am perfectly content with my insurance and they have bent over backwards to ensure everything that can be covered is done. They even cover my hotel costs when I have to travel for tests and appointment at the transplant center except for anything over $100.00 a night. My insurance company calls me continuously to make sure they have everything done to ensure I am covered.

To those of you who want me to give that up for Medicare for all, I will give you a hearty "Fuck you!" and bid you good day!

Personally (and I try not to address things in this manner on this message board), I am very sorry to hear of your troubles and very happy to hear it is being well taken care of.
Other people in other countries with the same order of problems have them equally were cared for without as much average cost as in the U.S.
If you were in France, you would not perceive much difference in your care. There is nothing to give up in a well run healthcare system except the profit to unnecessary third parties.

 

[NightFox]

We are paying enormous sums now for healthcare, much more per person than many other nations with healthcare just as good as in the U.S. It is unarguable that we could improve things for everyone while spending less total.
Calling it 'socialism' is just a cheap argument for doing nothing.

Are you aware that nearly 3/4 of what we spend is directly related to lifestyle driven (preventable) chronic diseases?

It's a supply and demand problem, exacerbated by the fact that:
a.) As a people we have a shitty diet, don't exercise and are way too stressed out
b.) We've decoupled the consumer from the price of consumption thus creating an incentive for over-consumption.

If we don't figure out a way to address issue A then eventually health care costs will bankrupt the country no matter what is done to re-arrange the health insurance component. As far as issue B, it's a direct result of government intervention into the health insurance market and it's only getting worse the more the Federal Government tries to "fix" it.

The sad part is, that all we can do is bicker about which side gets to control health insurance while ignoring the fact that the HOUSE IS BURNING DOWN.

 

[Norman]

How many times the same thread over and over?

 

[Markle]

Ah, you’re too easy. Facts always win.

Causes of personal bankruptcies: medical bills and student loan debt - Business Insider

And the devil is in the details!

If an individual filing for bankruptcy had medical expenses of $1,000.00 or more, regardless of their other debt, it is counted as being caused by medical expenses. I could have an unpaid bill from my dentist of $1,100.00 for a root canal, $50,000.00 on a second mortgage for a pool, $30,000.00 on a car, $23,000.00 on a motorcycle, $100,000.00 on credit cards, and I declare bankruptcy. For statistical purposes that bankruptcy is chalked up to medical bills.

The debt we have that is the real danger is student loans. That will be the next bubble to burst. That's frightening.

 

[Markle]

LOL. You’re terribly uninformed. The billionaires and millionaires fund presidential campaigns. They control legislation via their lobbyists. Their people run the regulatory agencies, thus granting them government protection. It’s a racket the Mafia can only dream of.

Wake up. They run the country, but you aren’t smart enough to see it, even though it’s it’s right in your face.

Why do you believe that unsuccessful people are better prepared to lead the greatest country in the world?

 

[gipper]

LOL. You’re terribly uninformed. The billionaires and millionaires fund presidential campaigns. They control legislation via their lobbyists. Their people run the regulatory agencies, thus granting them government protection. It’s a racket the Mafia can only dream of.

Wake up. They run the country, but you aren’t smart enough to see it, even though it’s it’s right in your face.

Why do you believe that unsuccessful people are better prepared to lead the greatest country in the world?

Who’s unsuccessful?

 

[Billy000]

Ah, you’re too easy. Facts always win.

Causes of personal bankruptcies: medical bills and student loan debt - Business Insider

And the devil is in the details!

If an individual filing for bankruptcy had medical expenses of $1,000.00 or more, regardless of their other debt, it is counted as being caused by medical expenses. I could have an unpaid bill from my dentist of $1,100.00 for a root canal, $50,000.00 on a second mortgage for a pool, $30,000.00 on a car, $23,000.00 on a motorcycle, $100,000.00 on credit cards, and I declare bankruptcy. For statistical purposes that bankruptcy is chalked up to medical bills.

The debt we have that is the real danger is student loans. That will be the next bubble to burst. That's frightening.

Uh yeah and one’s income obviously plays a role. If they can’t afford 1000 in medical debt, they file for bankruptcy. Obviously it isn’t good to have a debt of 1000 from medical debt.

 

[Markle]

We currently have the most expensive HC system the world has ever known. This is a fact. If we were to eliminate the enormous profits generated by this system and the gigantic salaries senior executives earn, considerable cost savings are immediately generated.

Another fact is this system continues to lose its effectiveness, as life expectancies of Americans continues to decrease. Something is obvious wrong.

Malarkey.

Which country, or combination of countries contributes more in the area of new life-extending and life-saving drugs, medical procedures and new technology than the United United States?

As you know, life expectancy is unrelated to the cost of healthcare and we have the finest quality healthcare in the world. What part do you not understand or are you intentionally blind?

 

[Markle]

You have a choice ... pay for healthcare or don't.

What other choice do you want?

For many that is not a choice. The choice is to pay for health care or to pay the rent and eat. That is not a choice.

You have a choice ... pay for healthcare or don't.

What other choice do you want?

For many that is not a choice. The choice is to pay for health care or to pay the rent and eat. That is not a choice.

I don’t think righties get that. Or maybe they don’t give a shit. So much for their claimed Christian love.

You have a choice ... pay for healthcare or don't.

What other choice do you want?

For many that is not a choice. The choice is to pay for health care or to pay the rent and eat. That is not a choice.

What is amazing and disheartening is that so many people who would not only not pay more, but would pay less for healthcare oppose universal healthcare based on their horror that someone who can't pay might receive care anyway.

Those struggling to pay rent and or eat earn so little they are heavily subsidized or receiving free coverage. Weird that you folks seem to always forget to mention that. So who are you super noble types really looking out for?

Some can but there are many places that will not take Medicaid. That still leaves the many others who still can not afford to see a doctor when they need to.

The other side of your coin is those who ignore that those without wait until they really get sick and go to the E.R. where they can not pay and taxpayers pay anyway. It would be far cheaper to see that people can go early or access preventive care.

Yes, there are many doctors who probably do not accept Medicaid as it pays too little for all the paperwork. At the same time, there are many who do in every county of our country.

 

[Papageorgio]

Our wonderful utopian for-profit healthcare system gives Americans CHOICE. Americans gotta have that choice! We can choose our own doctors and Medicare for all would take that way!

It’s possible such a socialist system would, but not necessarily. Let’s pretend it did though. What other “choices” does our current healthcare system offer? Low paying premiums & high deductibles vs high paying monthly premiums & lower deductibles? Rationing essential but unaffordable medicine? That’s some fucking choice right there! That’s the American way! Go bankrupt over healthcare costs!

You know the rich and middle class would need to pay more in taxes with a Medicare for all system, but they would still ultimately save money by not having to worry about monthly premiums, prescription costs, Co-pays, and high deductibles.

You need to go back to elementary school and think over some basics, Billy.

Let's start with Rights and Responsibilities. Who grants them. From where do they come, who owes whom what. Etc.

Leftists always skip over the "thinking" part and go right to "whining"

Does that mean we shouldn’t have laws at all?

WTF? How did you get that out of her post?

 

[Markle]

LOL. You’re terribly uninformed. The billionaires and millionaires fund presidential campaigns. They control legislation via their lobbyists. Their people run the regulatory agencies, thus granting them government protection. It’s a racket the Mafia can only dream of.

Wake up. They run the country, but you aren’t smart enough to see it, even though it’s it’s right in your face.

Why do you believe that unsuccessful people are better prepared to lead the greatest country in the world?

Who’s unsuccessful?

Obviously, anyone you think is better suited to running the country than successful people.

Why do you believe that unsuccessful people are better prepared to lead the greatest country in the world? Somehow you skipped this question. Why?

 

[pknopp]

You have a choice ... pay for healthcare or don't.

What other choice do you want?

For many that is not a choice. The choice is to pay for health care or to pay the rent and eat. That is not a choice.

You have a choice ... pay for healthcare or don't.

What other choice do you want?

For many that is not a choice. The choice is to pay for health care or to pay the rent and eat. That is not a choice.

I don’t think righties get that. Or maybe they don’t give a shit. So much for their claimed Christian love.

You have a choice ... pay for healthcare or don't.

What other choice do you want?

For many that is not a choice. The choice is to pay for health care or to pay the rent and eat. That is not a choice.

What is amazing and disheartening is that so many people who would not only not pay more, but would pay less for healthcare oppose universal healthcare based on their horror that someone who can't pay might receive care anyway.

Those struggling to pay rent and or eat earn so little they are heavily subsidized or receiving free coverage. Weird that you folks seem to always forget to mention that. So who are you super noble types really looking out for?

Some can but there are many places that will not take Medicaid. That still leaves the many others who still can not afford to see a doctor when they need to.

The other side of your coin is those who ignore that those without wait until they really get sick and go to the E.R. where they can not pay and taxpayers pay anyway. It would be far cheaper to see that people can go early or access preventive care.

Yes, there are many doctors who probably do not accept Medicaid as it pays too little for all the paperwork. At the same time, there are many who do in every county of our country.

The paperwork is something that should also be addressed. I've said that everything needs addressed. All avenues of cost.

 

[pknopp]

LOL. You’re terribly uninformed. The billionaires and millionaires fund presidential campaigns. They control legislation via their lobbyists. Their people run the regulatory agencies, thus granting them government protection. It’s a racket the Mafia can only dream of.

Wake up. They run the country, but you aren’t smart enough to see it, even though it’s it’s right in your face.

Why do you believe that unsuccessful people are better prepared to lead the greatest country in the world?

Who’s unsuccessful?

Obviously, anyone you think is better suited to running the country than successful people.

Why do you believe that unsuccessful people are better prepared to lead the greatest country in the world? Somehow you skipped this question. Why?

Successful people? The ones we had to bail out? Because that is who is running the country.

 

[Markle]

We are paying enormous sums now for healthcare, much more per person than many other nations with healthcare just as good as in the U.S. It is unarguable that we could improve things for everyone while spending less total.
Calling it 'socialism' is just a cheap argument for doing nothing.

As you know, we have the finest healthcare in the world and you don't have to wait months and months for even simple procedures. It is not arguable that we could have the same quality and availability of healthcare and pay far less. That's an oxymoron.