One of the biggest arguments people have about our healthcare system is the illusion of “choice”

You have a choice ... pay for healthcare or don't.

What other choice do you want?

For many that is not a choice. The choice is to pay for health care or to pay the rent and eat. That is not a choice.

You have a choice ... pay for healthcare or don't.

What other choice do you want?

For many that is not a choice. The choice is to pay for health care or to pay the rent and eat. That is not a choice.
I don’t think righties get that. Or maybe they don’t give a shit. So much for their claimed Christian love.

You have a choice ... pay for healthcare or don't.

What other choice do you want?

For many that is not a choice. The choice is to pay for health care or to pay the rent and eat. That is not a choice.
What is amazing and disheartening is that so many people who would not only not pay more, but would pay less for healthcare oppose universal healthcare based on their horror that someone who can't pay might receive care anyway.

Those struggling to pay rent and or eat earn so little they are heavily subsidized or receiving free coverage. Weird that you folks seem to always forget to mention that. So who are you super noble types really looking out for?

Some can but there are many places that will not take Medicaid. That still leaves the many others who still can not afford to see a doctor when they need to.

The other side of your coin is those who ignore that those without wait until they really get sick and go to the E.R. where they can not pay and taxpayers pay anyway. It would be far cheaper to see that people can go early or access preventive care.

So you acknowledge that free and or heavily subsidized healthcare is provided to those struggling....but that’s not good enough...you want more. Am I understanding you correctly?

The other side of your coin is those who ignore that those without wait until they really get sick and go to the E.R. where they can not pay and taxpayers pay anyway. It would be far cheaper to see that people can go early or access preventive care.”

I’m not real sure what you were trying to convey here...are you saying that some are too lazy or too stupid to seek out subsidized coverage before an event requiring coverage takes place?
 
You have a choice ... pay for healthcare or don't.

What other choice do you want?

For many that is not a choice. The choice is to pay for health care or to pay the rent and eat. That is not a choice.

You have a choice ... pay for healthcare or don't.

What other choice do you want?

For many that is not a choice. The choice is to pay for health care or to pay the rent and eat. That is not a choice.
I don’t think righties get that. Or maybe they don’t give a shit. So much for their claimed Christian love.

You have a choice ... pay for healthcare or don't.

What other choice do you want?

For many that is not a choice. The choice is to pay for health care or to pay the rent and eat. That is not a choice.
What is amazing and disheartening is that so many people who would not only not pay more, but would pay less for healthcare oppose universal healthcare based on their horror that someone who can't pay might receive care anyway.

Those struggling to pay rent and or eat earn so little they are heavily subsidized or receiving free coverage. Weird that you folks seem to always forget to mention that. So who are you super noble types really looking out for?

Some can but there are many places that will not take Medicaid. That still leaves the many others who still can not afford to see a doctor when they need to.

The other side of your coin is those who ignore that those without wait until they really get sick and go to the E.R. where they can not pay and taxpayers pay anyway. It would be far cheaper to see that people can go early or access preventive care.

So you acknowledge that free and or heavily subsidized healthcare is provided to those struggling....but that’s not good enough...you want more. Am I understanding you correctly?

No, not really. I want it more affordable for everyone. It can not continue on the path it is on.

The other side of your coin is those who ignore that those without wait until they really get sick and go to the E.R. where they can not pay and taxpayers pay anyway. It would be far cheaper to see that people can go early or access preventive care.”

I’m not real sure what you were trying to convey here...are you saying that some are too lazy or too stupid to seek out subsidized coverage before an event requiring coverage takes place?

You understand what I am saying.
 
You have a choice ... pay for healthcare or don't.

What other choice do you want?

For many that is not a choice. The choice is to pay for health care or to pay the rent and eat. That is not a choice.

For many that is not a choice. The choice is to pay for health care or to pay the rent and eat. That is not a choice.
I don’t think righties get that. Or maybe they don’t give a shit. So much for their claimed Christian love.

For many that is not a choice. The choice is to pay for health care or to pay the rent and eat. That is not a choice.
What is amazing and disheartening is that so many people who would not only not pay more, but would pay less for healthcare oppose universal healthcare based on their horror that someone who can't pay might receive care anyway.

Those struggling to pay rent and or eat earn so little they are heavily subsidized or receiving free coverage. Weird that you folks seem to always forget to mention that. So who are you super noble types really looking out for?

Some can but there are many places that will not take Medicaid. That still leaves the many others who still can not afford to see a doctor when they need to.

The other side of your coin is those who ignore that those without wait until they really get sick and go to the E.R. where they can not pay and taxpayers pay anyway. It would be far cheaper to see that people can go early or access preventive care.

So you acknowledge that free and or heavily subsidized healthcare is provided to those struggling....but that’s not good enough...you want more. Am I understanding you correctly?

No, not really. I want it more affordable for everyone. It can not continue on the path it is on.

The other side of your coin is those who ignore that those without wait until they really get sick and go to the E.R. where they can not pay and taxpayers pay anyway. It would be far cheaper to see that people can go early or access preventive care.”

I’m not real sure what you were trying to convey here...are you saying that some are too lazy or too stupid to seek out subsidized coverage before an event requiring coverage takes place?

You understand what I am saying.

I still seek clarity.
So you agree that we taxpayers provide free or affordable coverage to the poor and struggling?
So what ‘group’ are you concerned about? Don’t most middleclassers have employer provided insurance?
 
What other “choices” does our current healthcare system offer?

Well, after "Obamacare" the choices are far less than they used to be, for example before I could choose a plan with only the coverages and services that I as an individual wanted and needed, which meant I didn't have to pay a premiums for things I DIDN'T need like for example pre-natal care when there wasn't any possibility of having any more children....

Now that we have the magic cost increasing cocktail of the ACA (which the Insurance Companies absolutely LOVE) I have to pay for a whole host of coverage and services that I don't need or want, there is still SOME choice (I can choose between overpriced, wildly overpriced and are you fucking insane? overpriced plans) left in coverage levels but it's FAR less than what it used to be.

Now, the both political crime families want to take what little choice in coverage that's left and make everybody pay for one size fits all coverage so that vast swaths of the citizenry will get stuck subsidizing everybody Else's coverage for things that they themselves do not want or need, and as an added BONUS Medical Care quality will plummet as over-consumption exacerbates the already critical problem of lack of supply to meet current demand.

Lastly this isn't a debate about the healthcare SYSTEM, this is debate about INSURANCE, the system is just fine, it's just VASTLY overburdened by all the chronic diseases that our American Lifestyle imposes upon it (diabetes, heart disease, hypertension, etc..,) that cannot be fixed by changing the healthcare insurance system.
 
For many that is not a choice. The choice is to pay for health care or to pay the rent and eat. That is not a choice.

I don’t think righties get that. Or maybe they don’t give a shit. So much for their claimed Christian love.

What is amazing and disheartening is that so many people who would not only not pay more, but would pay less for healthcare oppose universal healthcare based on their horror that someone who can't pay might receive care anyway.

Those struggling to pay rent and or eat earn so little they are heavily subsidized or receiving free coverage. Weird that you folks seem to always forget to mention that. So who are you super noble types really looking out for?

Some can but there are many places that will not take Medicaid. That still leaves the many others who still can not afford to see a doctor when they need to.

The other side of your coin is those who ignore that those without wait until they really get sick and go to the E.R. where they can not pay and taxpayers pay anyway. It would be far cheaper to see that people can go early or access preventive care.

So you acknowledge that free and or heavily subsidized healthcare is provided to those struggling....but that’s not good enough...you want more. Am I understanding you correctly?

No, not really. I want it more affordable for everyone. It can not continue on the path it is on.

The other side of your coin is those who ignore that those without wait until they really get sick and go to the E.R. where they can not pay and taxpayers pay anyway. It would be far cheaper to see that people can go early or access preventive care.”

I’m not real sure what you were trying to convey here...are you saying that some are too lazy or too stupid to seek out subsidized coverage before an event requiring coverage takes place?

You understand what I am saying.

I still seek clarity.
So you agree that we taxpayers provide free or affordable coverage to the poor and struggling?

To some but we mostly do it in a wrong way.

So what ‘group’ are you concerned about? Don’t most middleclassers have employer provided insurance?

Most middleclass at one time had employer health care coverage. More and more places are either leaving for cheaper places to manufacture or doing away with the health care coverage all together.

More and more are paying a larger percentage that are covered. While I've said all along that most will have to pay something the current system is unsustainable. Health care costs have to be reigned in. People's health are also not something people should be using as a hedge for their other investments.
 
What other “choices” does our current healthcare system offer?

Well, after "Obamacare" the choices are far less than they used to be, for example before I could choose a plan with only the coverages and services that I as an individual wanted and needed, which meant I didn't have to pay a premiums for things I DIDN'T need like for example pre-natal care when there wasn't any possibility of having any more children....

Now that we have the magic cost increasing cocktail of the ACA (which the Insurance Companies absolutely LOVE) I have to pay for a whole host of coverage and services that I don't need or want, there is still SOME choice (I can choose between overpriced, wildly overpriced and are you fucking insane? overpriced plans) left in coverage levels but it's FAR less than what it used to be.

Now, the both political crime families want to take what little choice in coverage that's left and make everybody pay for one size fits all coverage so that vast swaths of the citizenry will get stuck subsidizing everybody Else's coverage for things that they themselves do not want or need, and as an added BONUS Medical Care quality will plummet as over-consumption exacerbates the already critical problem of lack of supply to meet current demand.

Lastly this isn't a debate about the healthcare SYSTEM, this is debate about INSURANCE, the system is just fine, it's just VASTLY overburdened by all the chronic diseases that our American Lifestyle imposes upon it (diabetes, heart disease, hypertension, etc..,) that cannot be fixed by changing the healthcare insurance system.

The system is not fine. The news here in state is about the closing of hospitals. They are closing because they were bought up with money derived from the sale of stocks. The hospitals make money, just not enough for the stockholders. That is not a system that is working as it should.
 
Those struggling to pay rent and or eat earn so little they are heavily subsidized or receiving free coverage. Weird that you folks seem to always forget to mention that. So who are you super noble types really looking out for?

Some can but there are many places that will not take Medicaid. That still leaves the many others who still can not afford to see a doctor when they need to.

The other side of your coin is those who ignore that those without wait until they really get sick and go to the E.R. where they can not pay and taxpayers pay anyway. It would be far cheaper to see that people can go early or access preventive care.

So you acknowledge that free and or heavily subsidized healthcare is provided to those struggling....but that’s not good enough...you want more. Am I understanding you correctly?

No, not really. I want it more affordable for everyone. It can not continue on the path it is on.

The other side of your coin is those who ignore that those without wait until they really get sick and go to the E.R. where they can not pay and taxpayers pay anyway. It would be far cheaper to see that people can go early or access preventive care.”

I’m not real sure what you were trying to convey here...are you saying that some are too lazy or too stupid to seek out subsidized coverage before an event requiring coverage takes place?

You understand what I am saying.

I still seek clarity.
So you agree that we taxpayers provide free or affordable coverage to the poor and struggling?

To some but we mostly do it in a wrong way.

So what ‘group’ are you concerned about? Don’t most middleclassers have employer provided insurance?

Most middleclass at one time had employer health care coverage. More and more places are either leaving for cheaper places to manufacture or doing away with the health care coverage all together.

More and more are paying a larger percentage that are covered. While I've said all along that most will have to pay something the current system is unsustainable. Health care costs have to be reigned in. People's health are also not something people should be using as a hedge for their other investments.

Got it...so we provide the poor with a free Mustang but you think we should give them a Ferrari? That makes sense in LibTardia huh?

Most middleclass at one time had employer health care coverage. More and more places are either leaving for cheaper places to manufacture or doing away with the health care coverage all together. “

Can you link us to this finding so it doesn’t appear to be your opinion?
What percentage of middleclassers are not covered by employer provided benefits?
Let’s do that thing that Lefties hate and get all factual.
 
We are paying enormous sums now for healthcare, much more per person than many other nations with healthcare just as good as in the U.S. It is unarguable that we could improve things for everyone while spending less total.
Calling it 'socialism' is just a cheap argument for doing nothing.
 
Some can but there are many places that will not take Medicaid. That still leaves the many others who still can not afford to see a doctor when they need to.

The other side of your coin is those who ignore that those without wait until they really get sick and go to the E.R. where they can not pay and taxpayers pay anyway. It would be far cheaper to see that people can go early or access preventive care.

So you acknowledge that free and or heavily subsidized healthcare is provided to those struggling....but that’s not good enough...you want more. Am I understanding you correctly?

No, not really. I want it more affordable for everyone. It can not continue on the path it is on.

The other side of your coin is those who ignore that those without wait until they really get sick and go to the E.R. where they can not pay and taxpayers pay anyway. It would be far cheaper to see that people can go early or access preventive care.”

I’m not real sure what you were trying to convey here...are you saying that some are too lazy or too stupid to seek out subsidized coverage before an event requiring coverage takes place?

You understand what I am saying.

I still seek clarity.
So you agree that we taxpayers provide free or affordable coverage to the poor and struggling?

To some but we mostly do it in a wrong way.

So what ‘group’ are you concerned about? Don’t most middleclassers have employer provided insurance?

Most middleclass at one time had employer health care coverage. More and more places are either leaving for cheaper places to manufacture or doing away with the health care coverage all together.

More and more are paying a larger percentage that are covered. While I've said all along that most will have to pay something the current system is unsustainable. Health care costs have to be reigned in. People's health are also not something people should be using as a hedge for their other investments.

Got it...so we provide the poor with a free Mustang but you think we should give them a Ferrari? That makes sense in LibTardia huh?

I tried.

Most middleclass at one time had employer health care coverage. More and more places are either leaving for cheaper places to manufacture or doing away with the health care coverage all together. “

Can you link us to this finding so it doesn’t appear to be your opinion?
What percentage of middleclassers are not covered by employer provided benefits?
Let’s do that thing that Lefties hate and get all factual.

Long-Term Trends in Employer-Based Coverage - Peterson-Kaiser Health System Tracker

And those who still have it have a hard time being able to afford to use it.

The Decline of Employer-Sponsored Health Insurance
 
We are paying enormous sums now for healthcare, much more per person than many other nations with healthcare just as good as in the U.S. It is unarguable that we could improve things for everyone while spending less total.
Calling it 'socialism' is just a cheap argument for doing nothing.

You think the presence of 100 million taxpayer dependent illegal beaners has anything to do with our of control healthcare costs? How about a destroyed education system...do they have anything to with that? How about failing infrastructure? How about overworked, understaffed, worthless public services? How about community, city and state degradation...do they have anything to do with that?
You force our good real American taxpayers to pay and reward Guadalupe for giving birth to more of her filthy same all while husband Gustavo works for cash off the books with a negative effective tax rate.
The aforementioned is the part of our system your Mexicrats have FUCKED up. We’ll never get ahead by paying the citizens of Mexico to fuck our people over. Sorry.
 
We are paying enormous sums now for healthcare, much more per person than many other nations with healthcare just as good as in the U.S. It is unarguable that we could improve things for everyone while spending less total.
Calling it 'socialism' is just a cheap argument for doing nothing.

You think the presence of 100 million taxpayer dependent illegal beaners has anything to do with our of control healthcare costs? How about a destroyed education system...do they have anything to with that? How about failing infrastructure? How about overworked, understaffed, worthless public services? How about community, city and state degradation...do they have anything to do with that?
You force our good real American taxpayers to pay and reward Guadalupe for giving birth to more of her filthy same all while husband Gustavo works for cash off the books with a negative effective tax rate.
The aforementioned is the part of our system your Mexicrats have FUCKED up. We’ll never get ahead by paying the citizens of Mexico to fuck our people over. Sorry.

If you support politicians (Trump and others) that ignore the employers employing illegals you have no soap box to stand on here.
 
Government interference (Absolute control) from top to bottom in the health care sector of the economy prevents competitive unrestricted free market access to affordable healthcare. From Nurses, Doctors, hospitals, clinics, research facilities, bio pharma.... coupled with legislative control along with a cadre of litigious ambulance chasers America has painted the sector into a corner. What remains is the system you have today, limited choices, with no free market competition the essential core element in controlling and driving down health care costs. Be thankful the technology sector of the economy escaped the wrath of government intervention otherwise cell phones, computers..... would be prohibitively expensive or for that mater not even exist in the first place. So now your choices are limited, you voted to live in a government regulated and controlled society so stop your whining and bend over.
 
Rationing essential health care? Maybe you have the U.S. confused with socialist countries. Illegal aliens get better medical care in the U.S. than citizens in the U.K. The President is trying to lower the price of prescription medicine and to offer terminal patients the right to try experimental drugs and the crazy left would rather elect Bernie. Go figure.
 
Government interference (Absolute control) from top to bottom in the health care sector of the economy prevents competitive unrestricted free market access to affordable healthcare. From Nurses, Doctors, hospitals, clinics, research facilities, bio pharma.... coupled with legislative control along with a cadre of litigious ambulance chasers America has painted the sector into a corner. What remains is the system you have today, limited choices, with no free market competition the essential core element in controlling and driving down health care costs. Be thankful the technology sector of the economy escaped the wrath of government intervention otherwise cell phones, computers..... would be prohibitively expensive or for that mater not even exist in the first place. So now your choices are limited, you voted to live in a government regulated and controlled society so stop your whining and bend over.

The government doesn't have absolute control from the top to bottom so your point is dismissed.
 
Rationing essential health care? Maybe you have the U.S. confused with socialist countries. Illegal aliens get better medical care in the U.S. than citizens in the U.K. The President is trying to lower the price of prescription medicine and to offer terminal patients the right to try experimental drugs and the crazy left would rather elect Bernie. Go figure.

No they don't. Point dismissed.
 
We are paying enormous sums now for healthcare, much more per person than many other nations with healthcare just as good as in the U.S. It is unarguable that we could improve things for everyone while spending less total.
Calling it 'socialism' is just a cheap argument for doing nothing.

You think the presence of 100 million taxpayer dependent illegal beaners has anything to do with our of control healthcare costs? How about a destroyed education system...do they have anything to with that? How about failing infrastructure? How about overworked, understaffed, worthless public services? How about community, city and state degradation...do they have anything to do with that?
You force our good real American taxpayers to pay and reward Guadalupe for giving birth to more of her filthy same all while husband Gustavo works for cash off the books with a negative effective tax rate.
The aforementioned is the part of our system your Mexicrats have FUCKED up. We’ll never get ahead by paying the citizens of Mexico to fuck our people over. Sorry.

If you support politicians (Trump and others) that ignore the employers employing illegals you have no soap box to stand on here.

Link me to a post authored by a Conservative where he/she showed "support" for those employing illegals.
Do you need me to link you to the hundreds of posts by Lefties pissing themselves, calling for abolishing iCE and protecting illegals anytime the raid of a business has gone down? How about the plethora of legislation written by Mexicrats that provides protection for illegals seeking employment and prohibits employers from digging too deep on citizenship status?
 
I am currently experiencing the better side of health insurance. Late last year, I was diagnosed with potentially life-ending disease. Three days in the hospital of rigorous testing followed, which determined I need a transplant to survive. In January, two more days of non-stop testing at a transplant center involved just about every type of test you can imagine. Those tests revealed another potentially fatal condition that had to be treated before I could be placed on the transplant list. Complications have required dental procedures, emergency room visits, and handfuls of drugs that must be taken daily.

My wife's insurance provides our coverage an thus far, I have already reached my deductible, and my out of pocket maximum is within sight. I have 4 procedures and appointments scheduled in the next 2 weeks. Any number of those tests and procedures I have had will doon place me over the out of pocket maximum which means I will pat exactly nothing more for my transplant which should occur later this year.

I am perfectly content with my insurance and they have bent over backwards to ensure everything that can be covered is done. They even cover my hotel costs when I have to travel for tests and appointment at the transplant center except for anything over $100.00 a night. My insurance company calls me continuously to make sure they have everything done to ensure I am covered.

To those of you who want me to give that up for Medicare for all, I will give you a hearty "Fuck you!" and bid you good day!
 
Our wonderful utopian for-profit healthcare system gives Americans CHOICE. Americans gotta have that choice! We can choose our own doctors and Medicare for all would take that way!

It’s possible such a socialist system would, but not necessarily. Let’s pretend it did though. What other “choices” does our current healthcare system offer? Low paying premiums & high deductibles vs high paying monthly premiums & lower deductibles? Rationing essential but unaffordable medicine? That’s some fucking choice right there! That’s the American way! Go bankrupt over healthcare costs!

You know the rich and middle class would need to pay more in taxes with a Medicare for all system, but they would still ultimately save money by not having to worry about monthly premiums, prescription costs, Co-pays, and high deductibles.

You can always move to Cuba
 

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