ONCE and for ALL. TELL ME DID THESE People LIE ALSO???

[jillian]

zzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Redfish]

He was the Commander in Chief and responsible. His was the final word, and his whole team was screaming for this at full volume.

Once it was sold to Congress, it was his call. Yes or no. Go or not.

Was there someone above him at that time? If so, give me a name and I'll blame him or her.

.

Every member of Congress could have stopped it, at any time, by cutting off funds.
The war was right and necessary. The WMD issue was a side show. Iraq was in violation of numerous terms of the cease fire and was undermining sanctions through bribery.
I can't believe people are still beating this dead horse. Get over it.

Rabbi, since thousands of lives and limbs and minds of American soldiers and thousands more innocent Iraqis are already lost forever, I guess I'm as much over it as I'll ever be. Horrific, historic tragedies happen and there's nothing we can do about them. That doesn't mean we forget them, pretend they never existed.

I just have one, clear question: Who was responsible for the final decision to go in?

There is only one possible answer, and we all know the answer. Just say it.

.

Bush was CIC, everyone agrees with that. But he could not have made that final stupid decision without authorization and funding from congress.

They are all culpable. To ignore that fact is to ignore the historical reality.

 

[Mac1958]

Every member of Congress could have stopped it, at any time, by cutting off funds.
The war was right and necessary. The WMD issue was a side show. Iraq was in violation of numerous terms of the cease fire and was undermining sanctions through bribery.
I can't believe people are still beating this dead horse. Get over it.

Rabbi, since thousands of lives and limbs and minds of American soldiers and thousands more innocent Iraqis are already lost forever, I guess I'm as much over it as I'll ever be. Horrific, historic tragedies happen and there's nothing we can do about them. That doesn't mean we forget them, pretend they never existed.

I just have one, clear question: Who was responsible for the final decision to go in?

There is only one possible answer, and we all know the answer. Just say it.

.

Yes, President Bush made the final call.
What is your point here? The war was necessary. The war was a good move. It was worthwhile and brought many benefits, like a disarmed Libya.
What bothers me is the Democrats who were enthusiastic for the war and then when things werent wrapped up by the first commercial break they suddenly declared they were horrified they had been hoodwinked and BUsh lied. That's bullshit. It was total political bullshit, with Democrats watching the polls rather than stand up for anything resembling principle.
Democrats lie. It's what they do.

Thanks for that, seriously, it's the first time in about a dozen of these conversations that I've received that answer.

We won't agree on the war, but I didn't like the Dems' behavior during that period either. Everything is so fucking politicized now that it's every man for himself regardless of the macro consequences.

.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

HOW many times have we heard "Bush lied People DIED"!!!

When will you Bush BASHERs ever get it through your thick heads... BUSH wasn't then THE ONLY ONE lying!

I mean EVEN SADDAM LIED .. why else would he let 500,000 children die of starvation RATHER then completely certify
he had NO WMDs?

And because he wouldn't THESE DEMOCRATS LIKE Bush believed Saddam had WMDs.

Once 9/11 occurred it became really evident that Saddam who wouldn't agree he did NOT have WMDs was also paying
terrorists for suicide attacks..(In case you didn't know or selectively forgot...)

Investigators who have been following a money trail say the former Iraqi president tapped secret bank accounts in Jordan - where he collected bribes from foreign companies and individuals doing illicit business under the humanitarian program - to reward the families up to $25,000 each.
Documents prepared for a Wednesday hearing by the House International Relations Committee outline the new findings about how Saddam funneled money to the Palestinian families.
Saddam's Suicide Bomb Funds - CBS News

So if he did that why in the hell would he NOT help in attacking the USA??


"..deny Iraq the capacity to develop WMD".Bill Clinton,1998
"..most brutal dictators of Century", Biden,1998
"Iraq compliance with Resolution 687 becomes shell game"..Daschle 1998
"He will use those WMDs again,as he has ten times since 1983" ..Berger Clinton Ntl. Secur. Advr 1998
"posed by Iraq's refusal to end its WMD programs" Levin 1998
"Saddam has been engaged in development of WMDs which is a threat.."Pelosi 1998 WHERE'D SHE GET THIS INFORMATION BEFORE BUSH?
"Hussein has chosen to spend his money on building WMDS.."Albright 1999
"Saddam to refine delivery systems, that will threaten the US..."Graham 2001
"Saddam has ignored the mandate of the UN and is building WMDs and the means to deliver.." Levin 2002
"Iraq's search for WMDs ...will continue as long as Saddam's in power"..Gore 2002
"Saddam retains stockpiles of WMDS.."Byrd 2002
"..give President authority to use force..to disarm Saddam because an arsenal of WMDs..threat our security"..Kerry 2002
"..Unmistakable evidence Saddam developing nuclear weapons next 5 years.."Rockefeller 2002
"Violated over 11 years every UN resolution demanding disarming WMDs.."Waxman 2002
"He's given aid,comfort & sanctuary to al Qaeda members..and keep developing WMDs"..Hillary 2002
"Compelling evidence Saddam has WMDs production storage capacity.." Graham 2002
"Without a question, we need to disarm Saddam. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime .... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction .... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ...."Kerry , Jan. 23. 2003.

....

BUSH wasn't then THE ONLY ONE lying!

....

Interesting defense.

 

[The Rabbi]

Rabbi, since thousands of lives and limbs and minds of American soldiers and thousands more innocent Iraqis are already lost forever, I guess I'm as much over it as I'll ever be. Horrific, historic tragedies happen and there's nothing we can do about them. That doesn't mean we forget them, pretend they never existed.

I just have one, clear question: Who was responsible for the final decision to go in?

There is only one possible answer, and we all know the answer. Just say it.

.

Yes, President Bush made the final call.
What is your point here? The war was necessary. The war was a good move. It was worthwhile and brought many benefits, like a disarmed Libya.
What bothers me is the Democrats who were enthusiastic for the war and then when things werent wrapped up by the first commercial break they suddenly declared they were horrified they had been hoodwinked and BUsh lied. That's bullshit. It was total political bullshit, with Democrats watching the polls rather than stand up for anything resembling principle.
Democrats lie. It's what they do.

Thanks for that, seriously, it's the first time in about a dozen of these conversations that I've received that answer.

We won't agree on the war, but I didn't like the Dems' behavior during that period either. Everything is so fucking politicized now that it's every man for himself regardless of the macro consequences.

.

It's a true answer. Just like it was Obama's call to withdraw troops from Iraq, leading to the present fuck up.
But how can Democrats claim they were lied into the war when they supported Bush enthusiastically and had access to the same intelligence? They are only doing this now that the war became unpopular.
Success has many fathers, failure is an orphan.

 

[rdean]

Bush didn't lie. At most, he was misinformed.

So he told not the truth. Which, of course, isn't a lie. Not to Republicans.

 

[KNB]

This "dead horse" just took over a chemical weapons plant, remember?

All of Bush's fuck-ups are coming to real fruition.

But, but, but, I thought there were no WMDs in Iraq. Now you libs admit that they were/are there and obozo has let them fall into the hands of some really bad people.

but I guess thats Bush's fault too

Are you trying to be serious? How long was Bush in Iraq over WMD? 5 years, 2003-2008. Bush missed those "WMD" for five years and that's Obama's fault? "Well, Obama is President now!" Sure, Obama's also responsible but that doesn't mean that Bush didn't fail in every way possible, especially since his failures were started by lies. Bush lied to the entire world, yourself included, to invade Iraq to secure and destroy Saddam Hussein's evil dangerous stockpile of chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction, but he left stockpiles of WMD in Iraq? That isn't anyone else's fault except for George W. Bush and his inept Republican administration.

But you already know the real reason why those "WMD" were left in Iraq. It's because they aren't "WMD". There weren't any WMD in Iraq. Bush lied.

 

[Redfish]

Bush didn't lie. At most, he was misinformed.

So he told not the truth. Which, of course, isn't a lie. Not to Republicans.

stating something that you believe to be true is not lying. Was Clinton lying when he said exactly the same thing?

 

[Redfish]

This "dead horse" just took over a chemical weapons plant, remember?

All of Bush's fuck-ups are coming to real fruition.

But, but, but, I thought there were no WMDs in Iraq. Now you libs admit that they were/are there and obozo has let them fall into the hands of some really bad people.

but I guess thats Bush's fault too

Are you trying to be serious? How long was Bush in Iraq over WMD? 5 years, 2003-2008. Bush missed those "WMD" for five years and that's Obama's fault? "Well, Obama is President now!" Sure, Obama's also responsible but that doesn't mean that Bush didn't fail in every way possible, especially since his failures were started by lies. Bush lied to the entire world, yourself included, to invade Iraq to secure and destroy Saddam Hussein's evil dangerous stockpile of chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction, but he left stockpiles of WMD in Iraq? That isn't anyone else's fault except for George W. Bush and his inept Republican administration.

But you already know the real reason why those "WMD" were left in Iraq. It's because they aren't "WMD". There weren't any WMD in Iraq. Bush lied.

now you are not even making sense. In your first post you say that the bad guys now have chemical weapons left by Saddam, then you say that there never were any.

Does the defective liberal gene create this kind of mental disintegration?

 

[KNB]

Except that the Bush administration had been drawing up war plans on Iraq as early as October 2001. There was never any doubt in Bush's mind after 9/11 that he was going to invade Iraq, whatever it took. They just had to condition the public to go along with it, and they had to lie to do that. After Powell gave Curveball's lies to the UN, the UN still rejected a resolution for removing Saddam Hussein, so Bush and Blair set up the "Coalition of the Willing" and invaded anyway. Now Iraq has descended into chaos just as Dick Cheney said it would back in 1994.

Iraq: The Media War Plan

 

[KNB]

But, but, but, I thought there were no WMDs in Iraq. Now you libs admit that they were/are there and obozo has let them fall into the hands of some really bad people.

but I guess thats Bush's fault too

Are you trying to be serious? How long was Bush in Iraq over WMD? 5 years, 2003-2008. Bush missed those "WMD" for five years and that's Obama's fault? "Well, Obama is President now!" Sure, Obama's also responsible but that doesn't mean that Bush didn't fail in every way possible, especially since his failures were started by lies. Bush lied to the entire world, yourself included, to invade Iraq to secure and destroy Saddam Hussein's evil dangerous stockpile of chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction, but he left stockpiles of WMD in Iraq? That isn't anyone else's fault except for George W. Bush and his inept Republican administration.

But you already know the real reason why those "WMD" were left in Iraq. It's because they aren't "WMD". There weren't any WMD in Iraq. Bush lied.

now you are not even making sense. In your first post you say that the bad guys now have chemical weapons left by Saddam, then you say that there never were any.

Does the defective liberal gene create this kind of mental disintegration?

You're just being stupid for stupid's sake. Grow up. There weren't any WMD in Iraq so ISIS hasn't claimed shit. And if they have, then that is George W. Bush's fault. If Saddam was a super-genius criminal mastermind who secretly shipped his WMD to Syria without the Bush administration or any other spy network on Earth knowing about it, and Bush still invaded Iraq over WMD, and then STILL left WMD in Iraq that might fall into terrorists' hands, then Bush is even dumber than we had previously known.

Do you want to stick with those arguments?

 

[NYcarbineer]

But, but, but, I thought there were no WMDs in Iraq. Now you libs admit that they were/are there and obozo has let them fall into the hands of some really bad people.

but I guess thats Bush's fault too

Are you trying to be serious? How long was Bush in Iraq over WMD? 5 years, 2003-2008. Bush missed those "WMD" for five years and that's Obama's fault? "Well, Obama is President now!" Sure, Obama's also responsible but that doesn't mean that Bush didn't fail in every way possible, especially since his failures were started by lies. Bush lied to the entire world, yourself included, to invade Iraq to secure and destroy Saddam Hussein's evil dangerous stockpile of chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction, but he left stockpiles of WMD in Iraq? That isn't anyone else's fault except for George W. Bush and his inept Republican administration.

But you already know the real reason why those "WMD" were left in Iraq. It's because they aren't "WMD". There weren't any WMD in Iraq. Bush lied.

now you are not even making sense. In your first post you say that the bad guys now have chemical weapons left by Saddam, then you say that there never were any.

Does the defective liberal gene create this kind of mental disintegration?

WMD's that were accounted for and secured by the inspectors were not the WMD's that Bush told us we had to invade Iraq over.

It's the latter that never existed. Your clumsy attempt at obfuscation is comical.

 

[healthmyths]

Are you trying to be serious? How long was Bush in Iraq over WMD? 5 years, 2003-2008. Bush missed those "WMD" for five years and that's Obama's fault? "Well, Obama is President now!" Sure, Obama's also responsible but that doesn't mean that Bush didn't fail in every way possible, especially since his failures were started by lies. Bush lied to the entire world, yourself included, to invade Iraq to secure and destroy Saddam Hussein's evil dangerous stockpile of chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction, but he left stockpiles of WMD in Iraq? That isn't anyone else's fault except for George W. Bush and his inept Republican administration.

But you already know the real reason why those "WMD" were left in Iraq. It's because they aren't "WMD". There weren't any WMD in Iraq. Bush lied.

now you are not even making sense. In your first post you say that the bad guys now have chemical weapons left by Saddam, then you say that there never were any.

Does the defective liberal gene create this kind of mental disintegration?

WMD's that were accounted for and secured by the inspectors were the WMD's that Bush told us we had to invade Iraq over.

It's the latter that never existed. Your clumsy attempt at obfuscation is comical.

The "latter" what? WMDs?

 

[Billo_Really]

NOW for someone WHO comprehended which MANY of you obviously still DON"T understand, i.e. there was a CEASE FIRE in 1991.. and in the
words of Harry REID:

"We stopped the fighting [in 1991] on an agreement that Iraq would take steps to assure the world that it would not engage in further aggression and that it would destroy its weapons of mass destruction.
It has refused to take those steps.
That refusal constitutes a breach of the armistice which renders it void and justifies resumption of the armed conflict."

Senator Harry Reid (Democrat, Nevada) Addressing the US Senate October 9, 2002 Congressional Record, p. S10145

Any official "breach", was for the UNSC to decide, not the US.

 

[candycorn]

HOW many times have we heard "Bush lied People DIED"!!!

When will you Bush BASHERs ever get it through your thick heads... BUSH wasn't then THE ONLY ONE lying!

I mean EVEN SADDAM LIED .. why else would he let 500,000 children die of starvation RATHER then completely certify
he had NO WMDs?

And because he wouldn't THESE DEMOCRATS LIKE Bush believed Saddam had WMDs.

Once 9/11 occurred it became really evident that Saddam who wouldn't agree he did NOT have WMDs was also paying
terrorists for suicide attacks..(In case you didn't know or selectively forgot...)

Investigators who have been following a money trail say the former Iraqi president tapped secret bank accounts in Jordan - where he collected bribes from foreign companies and individuals doing illicit business under the humanitarian program - to reward the families up to $25,000 each.
Documents prepared for a Wednesday hearing by the House International Relations Committee outline the new findings about how Saddam funneled money to the Palestinian families.
Saddam's Suicide Bomb Funds - CBS News

So if he did that why in the hell would he NOT help in attacking the USA??


"..deny Iraq the capacity to develop WMD".Bill Clinton,1998
"..most brutal dictators of Century", Biden,1998
"Iraq compliance with Resolution 687 becomes shell game"..Daschle 1998
"He will use those WMDs again,as he has ten times since 1983" ..Berger Clinton Ntl. Secur. Advr 1998
"posed by Iraq's refusal to end its WMD programs" Levin 1998
"Saddam has been engaged in development of WMDs which is a threat.."Pelosi 1998 WHERE'D SHE GET THIS INFORMATION BEFORE BUSH?
"Hussein has chosen to spend his money on building WMDS.."Albright 1999
"Saddam to refine delivery systems, that will threaten the US..."Graham 2001
"Saddam has ignored the mandate of the UN and is building WMDs and the means to deliver.." Levin 2002
"Iraq's search for WMDs ...will continue as long as Saddam's in power"..Gore 2002
"Saddam retains stockpiles of WMDS.."Byrd 2002
"..give President authority to use force..to disarm Saddam because an arsenal of WMDs..threat our security"..Kerry 2002
"..Unmistakable evidence Saddam developing nuclear weapons next 5 years.."Rockefeller 2002
"Violated over 11 years every UN resolution demanding disarming WMDs.."Waxman 2002
"He's given aid,comfort & sanctuary to al Qaeda members..and keep developing WMDs"..Hillary 2002
"Compelling evidence Saddam has WMDs production storage capacity.." Graham 2002
"Without a question, we need to disarm Saddam. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime .... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction .... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ...."Kerry , Jan. 23. 2003.

And as it was explained to your ignorant bitch ass over and over, any statements made by the congress (GOP or Dem) as to the intel is something for which they cannot be accounted. Bush's CIA cooked the intel.

Here is a video you won't watch where the guy who manufactured the intel admits he lied.



It is what Powell based his reports to the UN on and what the Congress was told.

I realize you are really stupid but how did Bush's CIA cook intel that President Bill Clinton relied on in making his statements?

I never said he did See up there where I said "statements made by congress". Clinton was President...not a member of Congress.

Do you ever get tired of being made a fool of?

 

[The Rabbi]

And as it was explained to your ignorant bitch ass over and over, any statements made by the congress (GOP or Dem) as to the intel is something for which they cannot be accounted. Bush's CIA cooked the intel.

Here is a video you won't watch where the guy who manufactured the intel admits he lied.



It is what Powell based his reports to the UN on and what the Congress was told.

I realize you are really stupid but how did Bush's CIA cook intel that President Bill Clinton relied on in making his statements?

I never said he did See up there where I said "statements made by congress". Clinton was President...not a member of Congress.

Do you ever get tired of being made a fool of?

I'venever been made a fool of. Certaonly not by you.
Again, how could Bush be responsible for altering evidence when Clinton was the president and said the exact same things Bush did about WMD and Iraq?