ONCE and for ALL. TELL ME DID THESE People LIE ALSO???

[Mac1958]

.

I can think of no other powers a President has that have a higher overall magnitude than Commander In Chief.

Regardless of which authorities he or she has been granted by Congress in any given situation, he or she has the final authority to send troops into a war or not to send them.

The President's desk is therefore always the final place of responsibility for war.

.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Where were your equivalent Bush Bashers during WWII?

I mean we ALL KNOW FDR "pulled the trigger" that killed 407,000 (including 1,900 members of the U.S. Coast Guard) American soldiers.

How did the U.S. wage undeclared war? First, it violated fundamental principles of neutrality under international law by assisting and arming one of the warring sides. Through Roosevelt's lend-lease plan, millions of dollars of American military hardware was shipped to Great Britain as well as to the Soviet Union thereby encouraging a counterattack by Germany on America's ships. But having learned its lesson in World War I when Wilson duped the public into believing the German’s attacked and sunk a US ship the Germans refused to take the bait.
German Admiral Raeder gave specific orders to the U Boats to not attack US shipping.

So, Roosevelt proceeded to go further.
He began using American military convoys to ship goods to Britain which was another act of war under international law.
How Wars are started...FDR lies America into WWII

It's ironic that you would argue against our entry into WWII against a dictator who was engaged in aggression against neighboring countries, murdering his own people, and pursuing weapons of mass destruction,

aka Adolph Hitler.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The soldiers swore an oath to defend the US Constitution. Torture and invading countries over lies doesn't have anything to do with their oath of service.

posting failed talking points after you have lost the debate just makes you look like a fool.

So it's OK when Democrats continue to bad mouth our US troops and in doing so HELP prolonging the Iraq Liberation?
These Congressmen are responsible for not only 4,000 more deaths then necessary BUT they also now are part of the group helping IS/IS
take over Iraq!

You can't seem to get that invading Iraq was a disastrous mistake, and GW Bush was the perpetrator.

 

[Redfish]

.

I can think of no other powers a President has that have a higher overall magnitude than Commander In Chief.

Regardless of which authorities he or she has been granted by Congress in any given situation, he or she has the final authority to send troops into a war or not to send them.

The President's desk is therefore always the final place of responsibility for war.

.

that is absolutely true. Bush is responsible for giving the go-ahead, congress is responsible for providing the authorization and funding that allowed him to give the go-ahead.

by the same token, obama is responsible for the fiasco that Iraq is today.

 

[Redfish]

posting failed talking points after you have lost the debate just makes you look like a fool.

So it's OK when Democrats continue to bad mouth our US troops and in doing so HELP prolonging the Iraq Liberation?
These Congressmen are responsible for not only 4,000 more deaths then necessary BUT they also now are part of the group helping IS/IS
take over Iraq!

You can't seem to get that invading Iraq was a disastrous mistake, and GW Bush was the perpetrator.

Yes, it was a mistake. We agree. You are totally ignorant of history if you think that Bush did it on his own without congressional authorization and funding.


are Kennedy and Johnson solely responsible for the 58,000 americans who died in viet nam?

 

[KNB]

.

I can think of no other powers a President has that have a higher overall magnitude than Commander In Chief.

Regardless of which authorities he or she has been granted by Congress in any given situation, he or she has the final authority to send troops into a war or not to send them.

The President's desk is therefore always the final place of responsibility for war.

that is absolutely true. Bush is responsible for giving the go-ahead, congress is responsible for providing the authorization and funding that allowed him to give the go-ahead.

by the same token, obama is responsible for the fiasco that Iraq is today.

Bush is responsible for everything that has happened in Iraq since 2003. What is wrong with you?

"Congress approved authorization" based on the Bush administration's doctored intelligence. There are declassified government documents which prove it. You don't want to read them so you don't know the real situation, just like Congress.

 

[Redfish]

.

I can think of no other powers a President has that have a higher overall magnitude than Commander In Chief.

Regardless of which authorities he or she has been granted by Congress in any given situation, he or she has the final authority to send troops into a war or not to send them.

The President's desk is therefore always the final place of responsibility for war.

that is absolutely true. Bush is responsible for giving the go-ahead, congress is responsible for providing the authorization and funding that allowed him to give the go-ahead.

by the same token, obama is responsible for the fiasco that Iraq is today.

Bush is responsible for everything that has happened in Iraq since 2003. What is wrong with you?

"Congress approved authorization" based on the Bush administration's doctored intelligence. There are declassified government documents which prove it. You don't want to read them so you don't know the real situation, just like Congress.

I have read them, thats not what they conclude. Congress had exactly the same intel that Bush had. They were all wrong about it.

I know you hate Bush, but rewriting history is really dangerous.

But since you take that approach on Iraq. I assume that you hold Kennedy and Johnson personally responsible for the 58,000 american deaths in viet nam, right?

 

[Redfish]

.

I can think of no other powers a President has that have a higher overall magnitude than Commander In Chief.

Regardless of which authorities he or she has been granted by Congress in any given situation, he or she has the final authority to send troops into a war or not to send them.

The President's desk is therefore always the final place of responsibility for war.

that is absolutely true. Bush is responsible for giving the go-ahead, congress is responsible for providing the authorization and funding that allowed him to give the go-ahead.

by the same token, obama is responsible for the fiasco that Iraq is today.

Bush is responsible for everything that has happened in Iraq since 2003. What is wrong with you?

"Congress approved authorization" based on the Bush administration's doctored intelligence. There are declassified government documents which prove it. You don't want to read them so you don't know the real situation, just like Congress.

Hmmm, explain how Bush is responsible for what happened while obama was CIC.

 

[candycorn]

HOW many times have we heard "Bush lied People DIED"!!!

When will you Bush BASHERs ever get it through your thick heads... BUSH wasn't then THE ONLY ONE lying!

I mean EVEN SADDAM LIED .. why else would he let 500,000 children die of starvation RATHER then completely certify
he had NO WMDs?

And because he wouldn't THESE DEMOCRATS LIKE Bush believed Saddam had WMDs.

Once 9/11 occurred it became really evident that Saddam who wouldn't agree he did NOT have WMDs was also paying
terrorists for suicide attacks..(In case you didn't know or selectively forgot...)

Investigators who have been following a money trail say the former Iraqi president tapped secret bank accounts in Jordan - where he collected bribes from foreign companies and individuals doing illicit business under the humanitarian program - to reward the families up to $25,000 each.
Documents prepared for a Wednesday hearing by the House International Relations Committee outline the new findings about how Saddam funneled money to the Palestinian families.
Saddam's Suicide Bomb Funds - CBS News

So if he did that why in the hell would he NOT help in attacking the USA??


"..deny Iraq the capacity to develop WMD".Bill Clinton,1998
"..most brutal dictators of Century", Biden,1998
"Iraq compliance with Resolution 687 becomes shell game"..Daschle 1998
"He will use those WMDs again,as he has ten times since 1983" ..Berger Clinton Ntl. Secur. Advr 1998
"posed by Iraq's refusal to end its WMD programs" Levin 1998
"Saddam has been engaged in development of WMDs which is a threat.."Pelosi 1998 WHERE'D SHE GET THIS INFORMATION BEFORE BUSH?
"Hussein has chosen to spend his money on building WMDS.."Albright 1999
"Saddam to refine delivery systems, that will threaten the US..."Graham 2001
"Saddam has ignored the mandate of the UN and is building WMDs and the means to deliver.." Levin 2002
"Iraq's search for WMDs ...will continue as long as Saddam's in power"..Gore 2002
"Saddam retains stockpiles of WMDS.."Byrd 2002
"..give President authority to use force..to disarm Saddam because an arsenal of WMDs..threat our security"..Kerry 2002
"..Unmistakable evidence Saddam developing nuclear weapons next 5 years.."Rockefeller 2002
"Violated over 11 years every UN resolution demanding disarming WMDs.."Waxman 2002
"He's given aid,comfort & sanctuary to al Qaeda members..and keep developing WMDs"..Hillary 2002
"Compelling evidence Saddam has WMDs production storage capacity.." Graham 2002
"Without a question, we need to disarm Saddam. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime .... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction .... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ...."Kerry , Jan. 23. 2003.

And as it was explained to your ignorant bitch ass over and over, any statements made by the congress (GOP or Dem) as to the intel is something for which they cannot be accounted. Bush's CIA cooked the intel.

Here is a video you won't watch where the guy who manufactured the intel admits he lied.



It is what Powell based his reports to the UN on and what the Congress was told.

 

[KNB]

that is absolutely true. Bush is responsible for giving the go-ahead, congress is responsible for providing the authorization and funding that allowed him to give the go-ahead.

by the same token, obama is responsible for the fiasco that Iraq is today.

Bush is responsible for everything that has happened in Iraq since 2003. What is wrong with you?

"Congress approved authorization" based on the Bush administration's doctored intelligence. There are declassified government documents which prove it. You don't want to read them so you don't know the real situation, just like Congress.

Hmmm, explain how Bush is responsible for what happened while obama was CIC.

Jesus titty fucking Christ, man.

Dick Cheney explains it:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YENbElb5-xY]Cheney in 1994 on Iraq - YouTube[/ame]

You still don't understand? That's not surprising. As I posted at the beginning of the previous page, which you obviously didn't read, the Desert Crossing war games scenario of 1999 gave the same estimate of post-Saddam Iraq- a hopeless, fractured quagmire. Even with 400,000 soldiers on the ground, Iraq would still be a "mess".

Dick Cheney ignored Dick Cheney's own advice and removed Saddam Hussein, setting in motion everything that Dick Cheney said would happen after Saddam was removed.

The next American president, whoever it was going to be, was not going to be able to fix Iraq. That is how Bush and Cheney are responsible.

 

[Wildman]

posting failed talking points after you have lost the debate just makes you look like a fool.

So it's OK when Democrats continue to bad mouth our US troops and in doing so HELP prolonging the Iraq Liberation?
These Congressmen are responsible for not only 4,000 more deaths then necessary BUT they also now are part of the group helping IS/IS
take over Iraq!

You can't seem to get that invading Iraq was a disastrous mistake, and GW Bush was the perpetrator.

"GW Bush was the perpetrator".., along with every fucking demorat in congress supporting that war against the original HUSSEIN.., every person with the "Hussein" name should be executed along with Ali, Moohamed,

 

[Mac1958]

.

Okay, fine, I'll admit that it's my fault that I got drunk and drove us and the car into the lake.

But dammit, it's your fault that since you got behind the wheel, the car is still fucked up.

Come on.

.

 

[Papageorgio]

Where were your equivalent Bush Bashers during WWII?

I mean we ALL KNOW FDR "pulled the trigger" that killed 407,000 (including 1,900 members of the U.S. Coast Guard) American soldiers.

How did the U.S. wage undeclared war? First, it violated fundamental principles of neutrality under international law by assisting and arming one of the warring sides. Through Roosevelt's lend-lease plan, millions of dollars of American military hardware was shipped to Great Britain as well as to the Soviet Union thereby encouraging a counterattack by Germany on America's ships. But having learned its lesson in World War I when Wilson duped the public into believing the German’s attacked and sunk a US ship the Germans refused to take the bait.
German Admiral Raeder gave specific orders to the U Boats to not attack US shipping.

So, Roosevelt proceeded to go further.
He began using American military convoys to ship goods to Britain which was another act of war under international law.
How Wars are started...FDR lies America into WWII

It's ironic that you would argue against our entry into WWII against a dictator who was engaged in aggression against neighboring countries, murdering his own people, and pursuing weapons of mass destruction,

aka Adolph Hitler.

Lol! You are a drama queen.


Sent from my iPad using an Android.

 

[The Rabbi]

.

The invasion and war were sold by scaring people with mushroom clouds. Once -- after we had already gone in -- it was determined that oops, maybe there are no nukes, we suddenly became so terribly concerned about freedom for Iraqi people. They had to sell something, and that was the best angle they could come up with. So, a trillion plus dollars and thousands of American lives, limbs and minds later, we're still pretending to care while ignoring the fact that people are being made to suffer in plenty of other places, too.

The Democrats who also voted for it were misled, or contrary information was withheld, or felt they had to vote that way to keep their jobs, or actually believed that shit, or some combination therein.

I don't care. I do know who pushed like hell for the war and who was responsible for the final decision to put us in that fucking quagmire.

.

the dem quotes earlier in the thread verify that they are all responsible. To put it all on Bush is ignorant of the facts.

He was the Commander in Chief and responsible. His was the final word, and his whole team was screaming for this at full volume.

Once it was sold to Congress, it was his call. Yes or no. Go or not.

Was there someone above him at that time? If so, give me a name and I'll blame him or her.

.

Every member of Congress could have stopped it, at any time, by cutting off funds.
The war was right and necessary. The WMD issue was a side show. Iraq was in violation of numerous terms of the cease fire and was undermining sanctions through bribery.
I can't believe people are still beating this dead horse. Get over it.

 

[The Rabbi]

HOW many times have we heard "Bush lied People DIED"!!!

When will you Bush BASHERs ever get it through your thick heads... BUSH wasn't then THE ONLY ONE lying!

I mean EVEN SADDAM LIED .. why else would he let 500,000 children die of starvation RATHER then completely certify
he had NO WMDs?

And because he wouldn't THESE DEMOCRATS LIKE Bush believed Saddam had WMDs.

Once 9/11 occurred it became really evident that Saddam who wouldn't agree he did NOT have WMDs was also paying
terrorists for suicide attacks..(In case you didn't know or selectively forgot...)

Investigators who have been following a money trail say the former Iraqi president tapped secret bank accounts in Jordan - where he collected bribes from foreign companies and individuals doing illicit business under the humanitarian program - to reward the families up to $25,000 each.
Documents prepared for a Wednesday hearing by the House International Relations Committee outline the new findings about how Saddam funneled money to the Palestinian families.
Saddam's Suicide Bomb Funds - CBS News

So if he did that why in the hell would he NOT help in attacking the USA??


"..deny Iraq the capacity to develop WMD".Bill Clinton,1998
"..most brutal dictators of Century", Biden,1998
"Iraq compliance with Resolution 687 becomes shell game"..Daschle 1998
"He will use those WMDs again,as he has ten times since 1983" ..Berger Clinton Ntl. Secur. Advr 1998
"posed by Iraq's refusal to end its WMD programs" Levin 1998
"Saddam has been engaged in development of WMDs which is a threat.."Pelosi 1998 WHERE'D SHE GET THIS INFORMATION BEFORE BUSH?
"Hussein has chosen to spend his money on building WMDS.."Albright 1999
"Saddam to refine delivery systems, that will threaten the US..."Graham 2001
"Saddam has ignored the mandate of the UN and is building WMDs and the means to deliver.." Levin 2002
"Iraq's search for WMDs ...will continue as long as Saddam's in power"..Gore 2002
"Saddam retains stockpiles of WMDS.."Byrd 2002
"..give President authority to use force..to disarm Saddam because an arsenal of WMDs..threat our security"..Kerry 2002
"..Unmistakable evidence Saddam developing nuclear weapons next 5 years.."Rockefeller 2002
"Violated over 11 years every UN resolution demanding disarming WMDs.."Waxman 2002
"He's given aid,comfort & sanctuary to al Qaeda members..and keep developing WMDs"..Hillary 2002
"Compelling evidence Saddam has WMDs production storage capacity.." Graham 2002
"Without a question, we need to disarm Saddam. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime .... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction .... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ...."Kerry , Jan. 23. 2003.

And as it was explained to your ignorant bitch ass over and over, any statements made by the congress (GOP or Dem) as to the intel is something for which they cannot be accounted. Bush's CIA cooked the intel.

Here is a video you won't watch where the guy who manufactured the intel admits he lied.



It is what Powell based his reports to the UN on and what the Congress was told.

I realize you are really stupid but how did Bush's CIA cook intel that President Bill Clinton relied on in making his statements?

 

[KNB]

Every member of Congress could cut off funds to Guantanamo, too, but you'll notice that any attempt to do so is immediately met with screams of "TERRORISTS ARE GOING TO KILL US ALL!!!!!!!"

"The WMD issue was a sideshow." You got that right. Look at this clown:

Give him a red rubber nose and a tiny tricycle. And put him in solitary confinement for lying the country into war.

 

[KNB]

This "dead horse" just took over a chemical weapons plant, remember?

All of Bush's fuck-ups are coming to real fruition.

 

[Mac1958]

the dem quotes earlier in the thread verify that they are all responsible. To put it all on Bush is ignorant of the facts.

He was the Commander in Chief and responsible. His was the final word, and his whole team was screaming for this at full volume.

Once it was sold to Congress, it was his call. Yes or no. Go or not.

Was there someone above him at that time? If so, give me a name and I'll blame him or her.

.

Every member of Congress could have stopped it, at any time, by cutting off funds.
The war was right and necessary. The WMD issue was a side show. Iraq was in violation of numerous terms of the cease fire and was undermining sanctions through bribery.
I can't believe people are still beating this dead horse. Get over it.

Rabbi, since thousands of lives and limbs and minds of American soldiers and thousands more innocent Iraqis are already lost forever, I guess I'm as much over it as I'll ever be. Horrific, historic tragedies happen and there's nothing we can do about them. That doesn't mean we forget them, pretend they never existed.

I just have one, clear question: Who was responsible for the final decision to go in?

There is only one possible answer, and we all know the answer. Just say it.

.

 

[Redfish]

This "dead horse" just took over a chemical weapons plant, remember?

All of Bush's fuck-ups are coming to real fruition.

But, but, but, I thought there were no WMDs in Iraq. Now you libs admit that they were/are there and obozo has let them fall into the hands of some really bad people.

but I guess thats Bush's fault too

 

[The Rabbi]

He was the Commander in Chief and responsible. His was the final word, and his whole team was screaming for this at full volume.

Once it was sold to Congress, it was his call. Yes or no. Go or not.

Was there someone above him at that time? If so, give me a name and I'll blame him or her.

.

Every member of Congress could have stopped it, at any time, by cutting off funds.
The war was right and necessary. The WMD issue was a side show. Iraq was in violation of numerous terms of the cease fire and was undermining sanctions through bribery.
I can't believe people are still beating this dead horse. Get over it.

Rabbi, since thousands of lives and limbs and minds of American soldiers and thousands more innocent Iraqis are already lost forever, I guess I'm as much over it as I'll ever be. Horrific, historic tragedies happen and there's nothing we can do about them. That doesn't mean we forget them, pretend they never existed.

I just have one, clear question: Who was responsible for the final decision to go in?

There is only one possible answer, and we all know the answer. Just say it.

.

Yes, President Bush made the final call.
What is your point here? The war was necessary. The war was a good move. It was worthwhile and brought many benefits, like a disarmed Libya.
What bothers me is the Democrats who were enthusiastic for the war and then when things werent wrapped up by the first commercial break they suddenly declared they were horrified they had been hoodwinked and BUsh lied. That's bullshit. It was total political bullshit, with Democrats watching the polls rather than stand up for anything resembling principle.
Democrats lie. It's what they do.