Obamacare Kicking In (And The People Like It So Far!!)

[Jarhead]

That's great ain't it. Adults a few years short of 30 can depend on mommy and daddy for health insurance. What happens when they grow up?

Exactly!!!



We are raising a generation of pussies!

Pussies or not, when they show up at the ER with that shattered kneecap and no insurance, we alllllll pay for it...

yes we do...and it is my pleasure to do it.

I thought liberals dont mind paying for other peoples problems?

 

[grunt11b]

That's great ain't it. Adults a few years short of 30 can depend on mommy and daddy for health insurance. What happens when they grow up?

Exactly!!!



We are raising a generation of pussies!

Pussies or not, when they show up at the ER with that shattered kneecap and no insurance, we alllllll pay for it...

Exactly, so that being said why is there a need for a trillion dollar monstrosity? Anyone can be treated at the ER, so why make it even more expensive then it already is?

 

[francoHFW]

Well you dittohead/foxbots are totally FOS as always...hoping for your recovery.
A. This not free for 26 year olds- but companies are picking up the difference...
B. The good stuff starts in 2014- People with preexisting at same cost as peers. medicaid for those making less than 130% of poverty level, subsidies for up to 88k for family of four, lowering cost over time, then no more 45k deaths and 750k bankruptcies - what ever happened to the tort reform and national exchange the BS Pubs wanted?
c. It does cost more when you care is guaranteed, no cutoffs EVER, but just a bump, then it comes down-send your ideas to your A-hole Pubs...

 

[Avorysuds]

This is what happens when stupid threads backfire.

 

[RDD_1210]

I must believe you think like I do......I dont need governemnt to make me pay.....for I will gladly do it on my own.

Yeah, you would but unfortunately we can't rely on solutions that "hope" people will donate to charity. You can see peoples greed on full display in this thread alone. People only care about themselves, which is why we need some sort of system that ensures people get the care they need.

you sure about that Mr.Ugly Stupid Head? eusa_angel

When those poor sould in Haiti suffered a devastating earthquake, american citizens gave more money to their needs than all other countries combined. And this did NOT include the money the US Government gave.

When in a debate, things are taken out of context.

But the truth is...Americans are a very giving people...we have proven it time and time again.

When government forces us to do somethuing, we resist....but it is not becuase we dont want to help people...it is becuase we dont want government making us do it. We want to do it our way. Sort of what freedom and liberty is all about?

When there is a crisis event people do have the tendency to step up and help out. But that's easy to do, that's a one time check you write out and you're done. The problem is, our healthcare system needs an ongoing solution on a MUCH larger scale than any single crisis you can try and compare this too. People will become disillusioned and lazy about continually donating, causing us to end up right back where we were with a broken system and people not getting adequate care.

 

[RDD_1210]

Exactly!!!



We are raising a generation of pussies!

Pussies or not, when they show up at the ER with that shattered kneecap and no insurance, we alllllll pay for it...

yes we do...and it is my pleasure to do it.

I thought liberals dont mind paying for other peoples problems?

We don't. We just want it to be done in the smartest way possible. The smartest way doesn't involve relying on the ER or charities. Neither are sustainable over the long term.

 

[Cuyo]

Exactly!!!



We are raising a generation of pussies!

Pussies or not, when they show up at the ER with that shattered kneecap and no insurance, we alllllll pay for it...

Exactly, so that being said why is there a need for a trillion dollar monstrosity? Anyone can be treated at the ER, so why make it even more expensive then it already is?

Because the system is broken. If everyone has insurance, everyone's rates go down.

Pneumonia is a better example than the kneecap. If he didn't avoid the doctor for fear of the bill, they could'a caught it when it was bronchitis and a $7 Z-pack would knock it out.

But now he's got a $20,000 stay in the ICU to stick the hospital with, and they subsidize it by raising prices on paying customers.

The kneecap works as well; 50 guys have insurance, one shatters his kneecap, bill paid, wash for the insurance company. 50 guys have no insurance, 1 shatters his kneecap, bill goes unpaid and hospital subsidizes it by raising prices.

Perhaps you'd prefer to go a different way, but there's a valid argument to be made for requiring health insurance.

Honest question - Nobody has answered 'yes' yet - Would any among you advocate doing the 'true conservative' thing - To deny services to those unlikely to be able to pay?

 

[Jarhead]

Yeah, you would but unfortunately we can't rely on solutions that "hope" people will donate to charity. You can see peoples greed on full display in this thread alone. People only care about themselves, which is why we need some sort of system that ensures people get the care they need.

Well RD there must be plenty of likeminded folks around.

Start your own charity.

Whip out your wallets and checkbooks and take care of business.

By all means put YOUR money out there and kindly leave the rest of us out of it.

Hell. If asked I would probably donate.

No you wouldn't. You've made that clear.

And we're trying to solve a problem that is affecting 30+ million people. This isn't something that can be solved through your local charity. Sorry.

if you believe this, then you are taking Claudettes comments out of context.
Claudette believes in helping others as I do.
But we believe that should come from the heart...as it does...and should not be forced on us by government.

Let me ask you this....

If you had a close friened die of leukemia....and you wanted to donate to the Luekemia society in his memory...but you had a tough year and no extra money to donate....and you paid your taxes like you should...

And the government donation report came out..

And you saw 1 billion of your tax dollars donated to "save the whales" and a mere 500K to the leukemia society...

And you then read reports from years prior...and you saw that save the whales ALWAYS got a billion and Leukemia society rarely got more than 500K...regardless of democratic or republican congress....

How would you feel?

 

[RDD_1210]

Well RD there must be plenty of likeminded folks around.

Start your own charity.

Whip out your wallets and checkbooks and take care of business.

By all means put YOUR money out there and kindly leave the rest of us out of it.

Hell. If asked I would probably donate.

No you wouldn't. You've made that clear.

And we're trying to solve a problem that is affecting 30+ million people. This isn't something that can be solved through your local charity. Sorry.

if you believe this, then you are taking Claudettes comments out of context.
Claudette believes in helping others as I do.
But we believe that should come from the heart...as it does...and should not be forced on us by government.

Let me ask you this....

If you had a close friened die of leukemia....and you wanted to donate to the Luekemia society in his memory...but you had a tough year and no extra money to donate....and you paid your taxes like you should...

And the government donation report came out..

And you saw 1 billion of your tax dollars donated to "save the whales" and a mere 500K to the leukemia society...

And you then read reports from years prior...and you saw that save the whales ALWAYS got a billion and Leukemia society rarely got more than 500K...regardless of democratic or republican congress....

How would you feel?

Your example actually hits very close to home for me. My first wife died from Leukemia almost exactly 5 years ago. I donate and volunteer as much as I can every year but I always wish I could do more. It's never enough until there is a cure.

With that said, I'm not quite sure I follow your sample, but of course I would like to see more tax dollars go to something like Leukemia as opposed to saving the whales.

 

[Jarhead]

Yeah, you would but unfortunately we can't rely on solutions that "hope" people will donate to charity. You can see peoples greed on full display in this thread alone. People only care about themselves, which is why we need some sort of system that ensures people get the care they need.

you sure about that Mr.Ugly Stupid Head? eusa_angel

When those poor sould in Haiti suffered a devastating earthquake, american citizens gave more money to their needs than all other countries combined. And this did NOT include the money the US Government gave.

When in a debate, things are taken out of context.

But the truth is...Americans are a very giving people...we have proven it time and time again.

When government forces us to do somethuing, we resist....but it is not becuase we dont want to help people...it is becuase we dont want government making us do it. We want to do it our way. Sort of what freedom and liberty is all about?

When there is a crisis event people do have the tendency to step up and help out. But that's easy to do, that's a one time check you write out and you're done. The problem is, our healthcare system needs an ongoing solution on a MUCH larger scale than any single crisis you can try and compare this too. People will become disillusioned and lazy about continually donating, causing us to end up right back where we were with a broken system and people not getting adequate care.

I was not just referring to healthcare...I was referring to the cxomment about government doing for Americans what Americans would do on their own.

Helathcare is brooken in many areas....but the ER part of it was one of the working parts in my eyes.
Personally, I dont know a solution....but I know I was very much taken aback by a government mandate to purchase something.

I am a conservative...it is not faux outrage...mandate to buy is a very big step for government and it can open doors tro many more mandates down the road.

Like the folks who got slammed by Katrina....many did not have insurance..and I was happy to help them out...and for their sake...I would STILL fight a mandate for them to buy insurance...especially if they can not afford it.

And please do not copmapre it to auto insurance...I hated that argument.

They are not at all similar.

If yopu opt to own a car, then you must have liability insurance. The wrod "opt" is the key word there.

Compared to....

The minute you are born the government mandates that you have health insurance...no choice...no word "opt". You must.....UNDER PENALTY OF LAW.

They are different

 

[Jarhead]

No you wouldn't. You've made that clear.

And we're trying to solve a problem that is affecting 30+ million people. This isn't something that can be solved through your local charity. Sorry.

if you believe this, then you are taking Claudettes comments out of context.
Claudette believes in helping others as I do.
But we believe that should come from the heart...as it does...and should not be forced on us by government.

Let me ask you this....

If you had a close friened die of leukemia....and you wanted to donate to the Luekemia society in his memory...but you had a tough year and no extra money to donate....and you paid your taxes like you should...

And the government donation report came out..

And you saw 1 billion of your tax dollars donated to "save the whales" and a mere 500K to the leukemia society...

And you then read reports from years prior...and you saw that save the whales ALWAYS got a billion and Leukemia society rarely got more than 500K...regardless of democratic or republican congress....

How would you feel?

Your example actually hits very close to home for me. My first wife died from Leukemia almost exactly 5 years ago. I donate and volunteer as much as I can every year but I always wish I could do more. It's never enough until there is a cure.

With that said, I'm not quite sure I follow your sample, but of course I would like to see more tax dollars go to something like Leukemia as opposed to saving the whales.

oh hell...Im sorry RDD...I certainly didnt intend to hit home like that.

The point I am making is...I prefer to donate to whomever I deem warrants it.

The government has decided to make those decisions for me.

Yes, I can still donate from my net...and I do.....

but if 20% of my tax dollars went to non profits...that would be THAT MUCH MORE that I could donate to the charities of my choice.

 

[Claudette]

Yeah, you would but unfortunately we can't rely on solutions that "hope" people will donate to charity. You can see peoples greed on full display in this thread alone. People only care about themselves, which is why we need some sort of system that ensures people get the care they need.

Well RD there must be plenty of likeminded folks around.

Start your own charity.

Whip out your wallets and checkbooks and take care of business.

By all means put YOUR money out there and kindly leave the rest of us out of it.

Hell. If asked I would probably donate.

No you wouldn't. You've made that clear.

And we're trying to solve a problem that is affecting 30+ million people. This isn't
something that can be solved through your local charity. Sorry.

Thats just it RD you don't know me at all.

I have no problem giving to a worthy cause when its my choice. I have given and will continue to give when I chose to.

The problems of 30+ milion people are not my problem and they are only yours because you chose to let them be yours.

You are not responsible for those 30+ million any more than I am.

Thats the difference between you and me RD. You want to carry that burden and I refuse to.

 

[grunt11b]

That's great ain't it. Adults a few years short of 30 can depend on mommy and daddy for health insurance. What happens when they grow up?

the law will say they must buy something they very well may not be able to afford...nor may never need.

My 24 year old son ius back on our policy....but in the meantime, he has never made a claim on his original policy...other than for his annuals.....but that should never be part of insurance anyway....for insurance ius INSURANCE.....for the unexpected....

Instead, my son was paying $4000 a year to cover his $300 annual visit.

That is AWFULLY high. I pay $5088.00 for a very comprehensive plan for myself AND two other employees combined...

I pay $3776.64 a year for my medical,dental and vision plan through Blue cross blue shield federal employee program, but it will go even higher after I add the new wifey on it.
I even pay for other people SSI and Medicare also "I say other peoples because it's sure as hell not going into a health savings account for me, it's being used right now as soon as it's taken from my check" , so if you add that in, it's even more. It's gonna suck to not get a return on my SSI investment, that shit will be gone by the time I could use it.

 

[RDD_1210]

if you believe this, then you are taking Claudettes comments out of context.
Claudette believes in helping others as I do.
But we believe that should come from the heart...as it does...and should not be forced on us by government.

Let me ask you this....

If you had a close friened die of leukemia....and you wanted to donate to the Luekemia society in his memory...but you had a tough year and no extra money to donate....and you paid your taxes like you should...

And the government donation report came out..

And you saw 1 billion of your tax dollars donated to "save the whales" and a mere 500K to the leukemia society...

And you then read reports from years prior...and you saw that save the whales ALWAYS got a billion and Leukemia society rarely got more than 500K...regardless of democratic or republican congress....

How would you feel?

Your example actually hits very close to home for me. My first wife died from Leukemia almost exactly 5 years ago. I donate and volunteer as much as I can every year but I always wish I could do more. It's never enough until there is a cure.

With that said, I'm not quite sure I follow your sample, but of course I would like to see more tax dollars go to something like Leukemia as opposed to saving the whales.

oh hell...Im sorry RDD...I certainly didnt intend to hit home like that.

The point I am making is...I prefer to donate to whomever I deem warrants it.

The government has decided to make those decisions for me.

Yes, I can still donate from my net...and I do.....

but if 20% of my tax dollars went to non profits...that would be THAT MUCH MORE that I could donate to the charities of my choice.

It's ok. I just shared since it was relevant to the conversation. The reason I am so passionate about this topic is because I was knee-deep in this very issue. I saw what it was like to have to deal with insurance companies and hospitals when dealing with a major illness. I saw the hoops someone has to jump through in order to get the simplest but important test or procedure done. I saw how we had to fight tooth and nail for anything to be paid for. And the worst part of it all...we had some of the best insurance someone could possibly have and that didn't change the fact that dealing with insurance was a nightmare. Even with the best coverage possible, when she passed away I still had bills totaling close to $300,000 dollars. That's just not right, no matter what way you slice it.

Sure charities could help, but that's alot of money and we were just one case. There is no way that charities can ever be expected to cover the costs for everyone who truly needs help. It's simply impossible.

I understand you feel threatened by the mandate and the potential harm it may cause one day by setting a precedent that you dont like. But we need a solution and unless you support a public option or all out Universal healthcare, I don't see any better (and realistic) options so solve our mess.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

What young punk wouldn't like to get something for nothing?

You might as well say :

Survey Shows People Like To Get Free Shit

Wait until the real cost come back to the tax payer thenl this "freebie" won't seem so free after all.

 

[RDD_1210]

Well RD there must be plenty of likeminded folks around.

Start your own charity.

Whip out your wallets and checkbooks and take care of business.

By all means put YOUR money out there and kindly leave the rest of us out of it.

Hell. If asked I would probably donate.

No you wouldn't. You've made that clear.

And we're trying to solve a problem that is affecting 30+ million people. This isn't
something that can be solved through your local charity. Sorry.

Thats just it RD you don't know me at all.

I have no problem giving to a worthy cause when its my choice. I have given and will continue to give when I chose to.

The problems of 30+ milion people are not my problem and they are only yours because you chose to let them be yours.

You are not responsible for those 30+ million any more than I am.

Thats the difference between you and me RD. You want to carry that burden and I refuse to.

I am only going based upon what you've said. If you tell me you don't want to help pay a single cent for anyones healthcare then I will have to assume thats what you mean.

I guess the difference is I want to live in a society where we don't have to fear getting sick because of not only the disease itself but if it will wipe us out financially.

 

[Jarhead]

Well RD there must be plenty of likeminded folks around.

Start your own charity.

Whip out your wallets and checkbooks and take care of business.

By all means put YOUR money out there and kindly leave the rest of us out of it.

Hell. If asked I would probably donate.

No you wouldn't. You've made that clear.

And we're trying to solve a problem that is affecting 30+ million people. This isn't
something that can be solved through your local charity. Sorry.

Thats just it RD you don't know me at all.

I have no problem giving to a worthy cause when its my choice. I have given and will continue to give when I chose to.

The problems of 30+ milion people are not my problem and they are only yours because you chose to let them be yours.

You are not responsible for those 30+ million any more than I am.

Thats the difference between you and me RD. You want to carry that burden and I refuse to.

I recall one time I was at my parents house....with my wife, my two boys...my sister and her kids...and my brother..

All are very liberal...except for me, my wife and my younger son.

We were all having dinner...nice conversation....and I told a joke..

Now mind you...this was about a month after the Haiti earthquake...

All laughed at my joke....except my brother. He stood up and began to reprimand me for :telling jokes when there are so many people suffering in Haiti"...

And then my sister joined him in reprimanding me....even though she laughed at my joke.

My response?

If I were to suffer some devastating event...I would hope you will be there to assist me, but I would never feel it was your responsibility to assist me....I would appreicate your compassion....but I would expect you to live your life as you normally would for you spending your time only worrying about me is not going to help me any more than I can help myself...so why should we all be miserable.

My brother mumbled something about me being a greedy rich business owner and left.

My sister asked me if it truly were devastating and I were to die, can she move in with my wife and get half ownership of the house...and we all started to laugh again.

 

[Cuyo]

the law will say they must buy something they very well may not be able to afford...nor may never need.

My 24 year old son ius back on our policy....but in the meantime, he has never made a claim on his original policy...other than for his annuals.....but that should never be part of insurance anyway....for insurance ius INSURANCE.....for the unexpected....

Instead, my son was paying $4000 a year to cover his $300 annual visit.

That is AWFULLY high. I pay $5088.00 for a very comprehensive plan for myself AND two other employees combined...

I pay $3776.64 a year for my medical,dental and vision plan through Blue cross blue shield federal employee program, but it will go even higher after I add the new wifey on it.
I even pay for other people SSI and Medicare also "I say other peoples because it's sure as hell not going into a health savings account for me, it's being used right now as soon as it's taken from my check" , so if you add that in, it's even more. It's gonna suck to not get a return on my SSI investment, that shit will be gone by the time I could use it.

We have vision, no dental though. We're also 29, 26, and 27, respectively. But 2 smoke and the third has a family history of skin cancer.

I personally was shocked at how low the price was and just how comprehensive the plan is. Better by miles than my girlfriend gets from a HUGE group rate through her job at a major department store. Cheaper too.

FYI it is through Geisinger, I don't know if they offer wherever you're at but it might be worth looking at. The big names, Aetna, blue cross, amerihealth, etc, were marginally more expensive, but nowhere near what you and Jarhead's son are paying.

 

[Jarhead]

No you wouldn't. You've made that clear.

And we're trying to solve a problem that is affecting 30+ million people. This isn't
something that can be solved through your local charity. Sorry.

Thats just it RD you don't know me at all.

I have no problem giving to a worthy cause when its my choice. I have given and will continue to give when I chose to.

The problems of 30+ milion people are not my problem and they are only yours because you chose to let them be yours.

You are not responsible for those 30+ million any more than I am.

Thats the difference between you and me RD. You want to carry that burden and I refuse to.

I am only going based upon what you've said. If you tell me you don't want to help pay a single cent for anyones healthcare then I will have to assume thats what you mean.

I guess the difference is I want to live in a society where we don't have to fear getting sick because of not only the disease itself but if it will wipe us out financially.

you know...an earthquake can wipe you out fianncially as well....especially if you dont have the appropriate insurance....like "act of God" provisions.

Just sayin'

 

[RDD_1210]

Thats just it RD you don't know me at all.

I have no problem giving to a worthy cause when its my choice. I have given and will continue to give when I chose to.

The problems of 30+ milion people are not my problem and they are only yours because you chose to let them be yours.

You are not responsible for those 30+ million any more than I am.

Thats the difference between you and me RD. You want to carry that burden and I refuse to.

I am only going based upon what you've said. If you tell me you don't want to help pay a single cent for anyones healthcare then I will have to assume thats what you mean.

I guess the difference is I want to live in a society where we don't have to fear getting sick because of not only the disease itself but if it will wipe us out financially.

you know...an earthquake can wipe you out fianncially as well....especially if you dont have the appropriate insurance....like "act of God" provisions.

Just sayin'

Thats my point! I and many others HAVE the proper insurance and we're STILL going bankrupt because of medical bills.