Noble Lies

Edgetho

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Are they okay? Do you think it's okay to lie..... To your own people to accomplish what you consider to be a 'Noble Cause'?

I don't. I don't believe most people of my political persuasion do.

But it would seem one side of the political specttrum does. They have to. They do it so much, there can be no other explanation.

The Left's Lies on Obamacare and Everything Else
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Charles C. W. Cooke has a good column on the left confessing its lies about Obamacare... now that it's too late for the public to make an informed decision, prospectively, on the law.

It is easier, they say, and "they" are always right, to beg forgiveness afterwards than to secure permission beforehand.

Accusing its opponents of lying has been the Left’s modus operandi since the first shots of the health-care debate were fired. Insofar as there was any at all, the ostensible theory was that, unable to muster any serious criticisms, almost certainly motivated by money and by racism, and tainted forever for having supposedly endorsed the scheme in the 1990s, conservatives were reduced to fabrications and to hyperbole — in other words, into scaring the public by telling them things that weren’t true. In the meantime, the law’s architects tripped over themselves to bend the truth — but that was fine because they were spreading “noble lies,” as the perpetually melting-down Brian Beutler now terms these tales.

Among the alleged falsehoods on which conservative opposition relied were that the scheme was effectively a “takeover” that would leave the president with capricious control over the nation’s health-care system; that insurance premiums would inevitably increase for some; that the president’s oft-repeated promise that all Americans could keep their health care if they liked it was obviously untrue; and that government was almost certainly unsuited to run a project of this magnitude and importance. Also claimed to be mendacious was the Right’s characterization of the measure as a severe departure from the status quo. Thus were we treated to a standard by which Joe Biden was able to call passage a “big f***ing deal” and the president was allowed to boast about his newest place in history with nary a squeak, but Republicans doing the same thing were accused of blowing a “moderate” and “modest” proposal out of all proportion.
I've noticed this in a different context, recently-- these "noble lies" the left tells.

The Left believes in many things that the majority of society does not. They believe, for example, that Socialism is an ideal to be aspired to. But rather than admit this, and make a case forthrightly for Socialism, they (and here I include their zealous advocates of the media) simply deny that any move towards Socialism is Socialism at all.

In the case of Obamacare, the Right was correct, and true: Obamacare was a massive cost-shifting, wealth-redistributing scheme. And also effectively a "government takeover" of health care.

The Left believes these things are good. They do not think it's fair that a healthy person purchasing insurance before he gets sick should pay less than an unhealthy person who delays its purchase until after he has been stricken. And they do not like how the free market operates in the health insurance market -- or, actually, how it operates in any market at all. They are foursquare in favor of government takeovers of not just the health insurance industry but practically any industry.

Oh, they would not call it this. They would call it a "Government-Business Partnership," or some such rot.

But the point stands: They are in favor of these things, but rather than honestly state their beliefs and press for the rightness of them, they instead lie at practically every turn and simply say "We do not believe that" and "We do not wish that" or "That is not what you claim it is."

This is why no genuine discussion can be had with them. They lie at virtually every turn. One can hardly argue with a man that what he believes is false if he automatically gainsays believing in it at all.

Obama did not go to church this Christmas. I do not believe that is a moral flaw -- I did not go to church this Christmas either, and neither did a majority (or near-majority) of my family and friends.

Even the New York Times bothered to notice:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/29/u...uals-of-faith-stay-on-the-sidelines.html?_r=0

President Obama celebrated a low-key Christmas in Hawaii this year. He sang carols, opened presents with his family, and visited a nearby military base to wish the troops “Mele Kalikimaka” — the Hawaiian phrase meaning “Merry Christmas.” But the one thing the president and his family did not do — something they have rarely done since he entered the White House — was attend Christmas church services.

“He has not gone to church hardly at all, as president,” said Gary Scott Smith, the author of “Faith and the Presidency: From George Washington to George W. Bush,” adding that it is “very unusual for a president not to attend” Christmas services.

Historically, watching the nation’s first family head to church dressed in their Sunday best, especially around the holiday season, was something of a ritual. Yet Mr. Obama’s faith is a more complicated, more private, and perhaps — religious and presidential historians say — a more inclusive affair.
By "more inclusive," the New York Times intends to mean that he doesn't upset any religious minority by observing any religion at all. Atheism is essentially re-cast as an ecumenical faith.

The left reacted to this reportage with its typical outrage -- "How dare you suggest that Obama is anything less that utterly pious!"

Obama is not pious. Neither are most of the left. The left is broadly in favor of atheism and broadly hostile to faith (particularly the Christian faith). But again, rather than making an honest argument in favor of atheism, or "free-thinking," as it was earlier called, they instead simply deny that they are atheist at all.

Or, I should say, various unimportant members of the left will state their own atheism while denying that Obama shares their lack of faith.

Because he's the one who's important. He's the one they have to lie about.

But is it really beyond the pale, at this point, to note that Obama is not Christian and not religious? He is Christian in the sense that I am Christian-- that's the religion of my birth.

But I do not practice it and do not believe in it.

Exactly like Barack Obama doesn't practice it and seems not to believe in it. And yet I wouldn't get huffy! if someone dared to suggest I'm not really a Christian. Spoiler alert: I'm really not.

It's only the Right that's called out for suggesting that Obama is anything other than what he half-heartedly poses as being. For example, when Expert on All Things Atheist Richard Dawkins proclaims, proudly and in a complimentary fashion, that he is "sure" Obama is an atheist, the left doesn't react with anger and shouting.

Neither does the left squawk when Bill Maher predicts that Obama will announce himself as an atheist. (For the 2012 elections -- Um, no. But he may do so as he's preparing to leave office.)

They don't scream about these statements for three reasons:

1, because they know they're probably true,

and 2, because they're said in a "nice way," just as it's okay for Obama to champion Obamacare as a historic, paradigm-shifting law, but if the Right decries it as transformative, they mean that in a "bad way," and so they're dirty liars,

and 3, because Dawkins and Maher are largely speaking among their friends on the Left. Just as Yasser Arafat could say things in Arabic that he wouldn't say in English, so too can the left freely discuss (and praise!) Obama's Enlightened Atheism among themselves. It's only when the idea threatens to get out to the Great Unwashed Religious Hinterlands that the screams of "Liar!" begin.

The left is fundamentally dishonorable. An honorable man tells you what he believes and is prepared to defend those beliefs fairly and candidly.

The Left never does. They speak in "Noble Lies," and have done so forever. Obama is not interested in spreading the wealth around despite telling Joe the Plumber he intends to "spread the wealth around." Obama is not a Socialist, despite having been a member of the Socialist New Party, and despite having a Socialist agenda (at least a soft socialism, which is the most the Overton window currently permits).

And Obama is a believing Christian, despite routinely failing to offer an Easter message or attend church on Christmas.

It would be better for America if the Left stopped speaking forever in "Noble Lies" and occasionally ventured a Noble Truth or two.

Edge:

It seems to me that when one side thinks it's okay to lie, we have lost our way.

And here's the sad truth..... Without their millions of ardent defenders, not only defending them but lying for them as well, they couldn't get away with it.

It's time to wake up people. It's time to open your eye and stop pretending.
 

Spiderman

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politicians from both parties lie and lie more than they tell the truth.

The 2 party system is the problem.

People believe they actually have choice but then again the choice between death by hanging or death by lethal injection isn't really much of a choice either now is it?
 

WelfareQueen

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No Dems lie more. It started under Clinton and has accelerated. Obama lies so much it is really all he knows. To Dems, the ends justify the means. Lying has become standard operating procedure.
 
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Edgetho

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During WWII, the Brits had busted the Luftwaffe's Code and learned of a massive Air Strike to be conducted on Coventry England and they had the exact date it would be conducted.

Of course, the Germans didn't know that we had their Code and were reading everything they sent so here was a quandary.......

If they sent up the RAF, if they loaded that area up with Anti-Aircraft and they turned away the German Bombers, they would save Coventry and its people.

But the Germans would know, for a fact, that we had busted their Code and they would change it.

After that, it might take Months or years to break their code again -- If ever.

They let the Germans bomb Coventry unimpeded.

That's a War Time decision and not one I would like to have to make.

But here's the deal.... If you think it's so important to lie about obamacare, what else is so important that you have to lie about it?

Well, of course, you would have to lie about Benghazi, right? I mean, that might jeopardize obama's chance at re-election and that mean ol' Romney has already said that he would repeal obamacare.

And the IRS/501(c)4 targeting? Gotta lie about that, too.

What about the NSA scandal? Well, shit. Lied about everything else, what's one more lie?

Syria? Well, that was a lie just to make obama look tough and decisive prior to the election. Didn't really mean it.

The point is this: We're not talking the defense of our Country. We're not talking about defending against Foreign Invaders.

We're talking about one party that has decided that everything they do, everything they believe, is so important that if they have to lie about it? So what?

And they justify it internally with the absolute certainty that it is a noble thing to do.

People, the democrat party has become a diseased entity that needs to be dismantled.

When you believe that what you want is so important that you will lie about it -- To your own people....? What's next?

How far will it go?

It needs to be stopped right now. And you need to recognize that what I am telling you, that what the above blogger is telling you, is absolutely true and accurate.

Otherwise, we lose. The whole Country loses.

Not because what we believe is right, but because what they believe is sick, warped and twisted and wrapped in lies.
 
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Edgetho

Edgetho

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politicians from both parties lie and lie more than they tell the truth.

The 2 party system is the problem.

People believe they actually have choice but then again the choice between death by hanging or death by lethal injection isn't really much of a choice either now is it?
How original....... A tu quoque equivalency. :doubt:
 

The T

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During WWII, the Brits had busted the Luftwaffe's Code and learned of a massive Air Strike to be conducted on Coventry England and they had the exact date it would be conducted.

Of course, the Germans didn't know that we had their Code and were reading everything they sent so here was a quandary.......

If they sent up the RAF, if they loaded that area up with Anti-Aircraft and they turned away the German Bombers, they would save Coventry and its people.

But the Germans would know, for a fact, that we had busted their Code and they would change it.

After that, it might take Months or years to break their code again -- If ever.

They let the Germans bomb Coventry unimpeded.

That's a War Time decision and not one I would like to have to make.

But here's the deal.... If you think it's so important to lie about obamacare, what else is so important that you have to lie about it?

Well, of course, you would have to lie about Benghazi, right? I mean, that might jeopardize obama's chance at re-election and that mean ol' Romney has already said that he would repeal obamacare.

And the IRS/501(c)4 targeting? Gotta lie about that, too.

What about the NSA scandal? Well, shit. Lied about everything else, what's one more lie?

Syria? Well, that was a lie just to make obama look tough and decisive prior to the election. Didn't really mean it.

The point is this: We're not talking the defense of our Country. We're not talking about defending against Foreign Invaders.

We're talking about one party that has decided that everything they do, everything they believe, is so important that if they have to lie about it? So what?

And they justify it internally with the absolute certainty that it is a noble thing to do.

People, the democrat party has become a diseased entity that needs to be dismantled.

When you believe that what you want is so important that you will lie about it -- To your own people....? What's next?

How far will it go?

It needs to be stopped right now. And you need to recognize that what I am telling you, that what the above blogger is telling you, is absolutely true and accurate.

Otherwise, we lose. The whole Country loses.

Not because what we believe is right, but because what they believe is sick, warped and twisted and wrapped in lies.
You forgot 'Fast And Furious' and Obama/Holder lies...
 

JakeStarkey

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Son, a tu quoque equivalency justifies neither side.

Do you understand that? Yes, the left lies all the time, but here on this Board, the far right lies even when it does not need to. We can't have those such folks representing the GOP
 

The T

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Son, a tu quoque equivalency justifies neither side.

Do you understand that? Yes, the left lies all the time, but here on this Board, the far right lies even when it does not need to. We can't have those such folks representing the GOP
Or folks like YOU that THINK they're GOP, right Fakey?
 

bendog

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it might of helped had the teaparty not shot down EVERY goper who proposed using tax money to alter the private healthcare markets. When you have only one person in a debate, fact checking is a bit tougher. but yeah, he lied like a champ.
 
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Edgetho

Edgetho

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Son, a tu quoque equivalency justifies neither side.

Do you understand that? Yes, the left lies all the time, but here on this Board, the far right lies even when it does not need to. We can't have those such folks representing the GOP
I promise you, punk. I am not your 'son'.

Maybe your daddy, but not your son.

Now go clean the urinals again. This time, don't use your tongue. It turns off the customers
 

francoHFW

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Obama/Dem promises that Pubs and insurers have blocked are not lies, hater dupes...You live on a bs planet and are the world's joke and horror...change the channel and read something...lol

You were ALREADY paying for the health care of the poor, just in the most destructive, humiliating, and expensive way possible.
 

BlindBoo

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No Dems lie more. It started under Clinton and has accelerated. Obama lies so much it is really all he knows. To Dems, the ends justify the means. Lying has become standard operating procedure.
One word. Nixon.

Another word. Projection.
 

Two Thumbs

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Obama/Dem promises that Pubs and insurers have blocked are not lies, hater dupes...You live on a bs planet and are the world's joke and horror...change the channel and read something...lol

You were ALREADY paying for the health care of the poor, just in the most destructive, humiliating, and expensive way possible.
you shouldn't take drugs

aside from that

the aca took away more hci than signed up, and b/c not enough people signed up, we are going to have to pay for it through taxes

not that you care people will die b/c they lost the ins they had, your team got the win.
 

Spiderman

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Son, a tu quoque equivalency justifies neither side.

Do you understand that? Yes, the left lies all the time, but here on this Board, the far right lies even when it does not need to. We can't have those such folks representing the GOP
When does one need to lie?

Let me help you out here

Never.
 

bendog

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Son, a tu quoque equivalency justifies neither side.

Do you understand that? Yes, the left lies all the time, but here on this Board, the far right lies even when it does not need to. We can't have those such folks representing the GOP
When does one need to lie?

Let me help you out here

Never.
you get a bj from an intern, you lie like a champ. Trust me on this.
 

BlindBoo

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Son, a tu quoque equivalency justifies neither side.

Do you understand that? Yes, the left lies all the time, but here on this Board, the far right lies even when it does not need to. We can't have those such folks representing the GOP
When does one need to lie?

Let me help you out here

Never.
"Does this make me look fat?"

:eusa_shifty:

"No not at all, you look great!"
 

GISMYS

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Obama's pullout from iraq wasted all the usa lives lost in iraq war. obama pullout from afgan. will do it all over again!!!! Obama is clueless=the worst president in usa history! OBAMA IS CLUELESS!! CLUELESS ON OUR CHRISTIAN NATION, MILITARY,ECONOMY,HEALTH CARE,JOBS,SPACE PROGRAM,EVERTHING,JUST CLUELESS,OBAMA IS THE WORST PRESIDENT IN USA HISTORY. PERIOD!!!
 

Delta4Embassy

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"Everybody lies." Dr. Gregory House :)

Not only is it okay to lie, but society would instantly collapse if we didn't. For an excellent illustration of what would happen, watch the movie "The Invention of Lying." And they didn't even handle defense concerns if governments stopped lying. "All warfare is based upon deception." - Sun Tzu "The Art of War." Then there's all the interpersonal stuff which have us at each other's throats if we couldn't lie any more.

Some lies are malicious, but many aren't, some are vitally important to do. Would it be nice if we all told the truth? Not really no. If you think it would, you haven't thought it through.
 

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