No One Has a Right to Health Care

[kaz]

It's the "collectively want to decide" bit that contains the poison. What you mean by that, is that the majority can force the minority to bend to its will via government. And, yes, that's how government works. But it's not inherently just, and we created the Constitution to contain it - to prevent the majority from abusing minorities willy nilly.

So, you think that nothing should be enshrined as a right unless 100% of the population agrees with it.
That's a high hurdle.

Government should not be able to trod on the rights of some citizens for the benefit of others unless it's 100% agreed

. Most would agree to a common sense plan for insuring all, but even that is fought by the donor class who actually denies the people their right to due process on such matters.

It's common sense to give people shit for doing nothing? Is that your philosophy with your kids or do you think that doing nothing for money is actually a bad idea?

How do people do getting off welfare when they get on it? Do you know? Do you care?

. Why mix one issue with another here ? Is this what happens where nothing gets done ever anymore for the people ? Is it a tactic ?

It's not mixing one issue with another. How can you possibly not get the connection. Why is linking money with work important for your children but with adults getting welfare you say oh, just give it to them?

 

[Yousaidwhat]

Why couldn't the US decide to make an entitlement a right?
Why couldn't the country decide to enshrine free ice-creams for everyone on every second Sunday a right?

Because then what you are saying is that it's a right to take money from other people to give it to you. That's not a right--that's theft. It would be the same as saying I have a right to walk into my neighbors home and take his television set because I can't afford one. You are trying to make a right out of taking other peoples property.

But what if the nation decided - as a nation - to grant it as a right to everyone?
And agreed to fund it from the general fund?

What I'm saying before we get further into the weeds of ridiculousness is that there's no immutable law of nature...as far as I'm aware...to say that a nation of citizens can't grant themselves any right they choose to.

If the requisite procedures were followed what would stop the US from deciding that everyone of its citizens has the right to healthcare paid for from the general fund?

. Then it could tax all it's citizens from their incomes for around $5.00 dollars a week to be deducted from what ever income they would receive in the nation. Anyone who would cry over that kind of rate for a basic healthcare insurance to be offered by the government to every man woman and child in the nation as a basic right, would flat out amaze me.

Except for the fact you are pulling numbers out of the air. I don't care what you do, unless you make all medical professionals work for minimum wage, you can't get healthcare for five bucks a week. Where did you get that number anyway?

Right now working Americans pay much more for that for just Medicare. Not only is Medicare going broke, but they too can't keep up with the medical bills so they've been underpaying the providers by about 1/3 of what they charge. Medicaid has many states in the red regardless of how many billions they pay into the program, and they too are cheating providers.

Remember too that private insurance takes your premiums and invests that money so the profits offset some of the costs. Government doesn't do that. Government puts your money under a mattress somewhere where it doesn't earn a dime of interest, and they use it as needed. Unlike insurance companies that have detectives overseeing fraud, our government doesn't have anything like that which is why programs are ripped off by the billions every single year.

$5.00 dollars a week is what the deduction would be for each citizen covered.. It has nothing to do with what the private sector or market place does or charges. The $5.00 dollars taken in from 300.000.000.00 citizens, is 1.500.000.000.00 dollars a week. Now many citizens go years as healthy like me, and are in no need of the care, so it takes the pressure off of the burdon of cost that is found within the elderly or those with pre-existing conditions. A plan like this is affordable and would work.

The entire population is working?

300,000,000 million people in this country are not working!

 

[Yousaidwhat]

If the slippery slope is proven correct, why not use it?

I remember the days when environmentalist only wanted lead out of paint and gasoline. Look at us today.

I remember the days when non-smokers only wanted to prohibit smoking in movie theaters. Today, you can't even smoke outside in some places and inside in many public places.

I remember the days when gays only wanted to be out of the closet. That's all, just let us out of the closet, and we'll be happy. Today, states are forced into recognizing gay marriage against the will of the people. A baker can't even refuse to bake a cake for their wedding.

I'm sure they actually wanted their constitutionally guaranteed rights...all of them, not just a few.
That's not a slippery slope.

The Constitution makes no mention of sexuality, marriage, pollution or bad habits. What Constitutional rights are you talking about?

The ones that homo-sexuals have under the constitution - as confirmed by the SCOTUS.

Yes, which is political and not constitutional.

But regardless of what the SC ruled, you cannot dismiss that issues are on a slippery slope. If we continue down this road that healthcare is a right, then nothing is excluded from being a right.

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution, that grants Congress the right, of expending on articles of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
James Madison, annals of Congress, 1794

Why does it matter?
If it's collectively agreed on...isn't that democracy?

Republic.

 

[NYcarbineer]

But if you stop and think about it , why wouldn't you want all of the members of your civilized society to have affordable healthcare?

I DO want that! But I don't think my desires justify violence. That's the difference. Those of you who want to use government to solve these kinds of problems aren't satisfied with working voluntarily, alongside those who agree with you, toward such worthwhile goals. You want to use government to force others to comply with your idea of the best solution.

I want poor people to be able to send their kids to the doctor the same as they would send their kids to school...

...the kids wouldn't come home to tell their parents they were turned away because they couldn't pay.

when you say poor people send their kids to the doctor just like they send them to school,,
are you saying you want the kids to pretend they are going to the doctor, then hang out in the streets all day doing drugs and stealing stuff, and the parents never know they didnt go to the doctor because they have no interest in the kids?
because if they really are so poor that they cant afford insurance for health, there is this thing called medicaid that pretty much covers this issue already?

 

[NYcarbineer]

So, you think that nothing should be enshrined as a right unless 100% of the population agrees with it.
That's a high hurdle.

Government should not be able to trod on the rights of some citizens for the benefit of others unless it's 100% agreed

. Most would agree to a common sense plan for insuring all, but even that is fought by the donor class who actually denies the people their right to due process on such matters.

It's common sense to give people shit for doing nothing? Is that your philosophy with your kids or do you think that doing nothing for money is actually a bad idea?

How do people do getting off welfare when they get on it? Do you know? Do you care?

. Why mix one issue with another here ? Is this what happens where nothing gets done ever anymore for the people ? Is it a tactic ?

It's not mixing one issue with another. How can you possibly not get the connection. Why is linking money with work important for your children but with adults getting welfare you say oh, just give it to them?

Children are dependent on their parents. That's why you claim them as dependents and get big money off your tax bill.

 

[Uncensored2008]

No, you have tried to manipulate this thread, and not be honest as you should be in it.... Heck maybe you can't be honest, because it ain't in you.

What have I not been honest about?

You refuse to even be honest about the fact that you advocate for socialized medicine.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Your words, and they are foolish words indeed. What are you, some sort of hack for private insurance interest ?

Irrefutable fact.

The underlying, basic proposition of capitalism is the trade of value for value. I will trade you an ice cream cone, which you value, for $1.50 cash that I value. If you don't value the ice cream at $1.50, you don't buy it. It is the value proposition that underlies all transactions in capitalism,

You have a very different proposition, "give me what I want or men with guns will throw you in prison." I assume you are a union goon who lived you life telling management "give us what we want or we will break your legs,"

Honest men trade with each other, thugs take by force.

 

[Uncensored2008]

If you want children to die for lack of affordable healthcare so you can save some pennies, just say so,

or deny it.

I know what you mean Comrade; I was late for work today because I was tripping over so many dead children.

You Communist demagogues are such an honest lot....

 

[NYcarbineer]

If you want children to die for lack of affordable healthcare so you can save some pennies, just say so,

or deny it.

I know what you mean Comrade; I was late for work today because I was tripping over so many dead children.

You Communist demagogues are such an honest lot....

Poor people aren't dying en masse in the US because of the government assistance they get that you would take away.

Conservative failure is what keeps poor people alive in the US today.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Your words, and they are foolish words indeed. What are you, some sort of hack for private insurance interest ?

Irrefutable fact.

The underlying, basic proposition of capitalism is the trade of value for value. I will trade you an ice cream cone, which you value, for $1.50 cash that I value. If you don't value the ice cream at $1.50, you don't buy it. It is the value proposition that underlies all transactions in capitalism,

You have a very different proposition, "give me what I want or men with guns will throw you in prison." I assume you are a union goon who lived you life telling management "give us what we want or we will break your legs,"

Honest men trade with each other, thugs take by force.

So those who want healthcare that costs money, but they don't have the money, should just go without?

Those who want an education that costs money, but they don't have the money, should just go without?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Of course it is. You give people things other people paid for. that is the definition of welfare

Now see, Beagle is not a Communist!

He just demands a system where all working people who are not sports stars, Hollywood elite, or Silicone Valley Party elite, put their money into a big pot, each according to their ability to pay.

Then as people need health care, they draw out of this big pot, each according to their need.

But Beagle isn't a Communist, no siree....

 

[Uncensored2008]

Poor people aren't dying en masse in the US because of the government assistance they get that you would take away.

Conservative failure is what keeps poor people alive in the US today.

So you were lying in hopes of shocking people into accepting servitude while slandering and libelling those who oppose your party.

You are a demagogue - sociopath.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Poor people aren't dying en masse in the US because of the government assistance they get that you would take away.

Conservative failure is what keeps poor people alive in the US today.

So you were lying in hopes of shocking people into accepting servitude while slandering and libelling those who oppose your party.

You are a demagogue - sociopath.

English please.

 

[Uncensored2008]

[]

So those who want healthcare that costs money, but they don't have the money, should just go without?

Again, no dead children in the streets, despite your absurd lies. America has provided health care to those in need for the last century or more.

Those who want an education that costs money, but they don't have the money, should just go without?

There are always ways.

But college for all is a fucktarded idea that renders college meaningless.

High school used to have a meaning. No more, we mandated that everyone will graduate from high school, so now it is a watered down mess that ensure nothing, not even the ability to construct a coherent sentence.

You Communists love to holler that college is free in Germany. That may be, but only the top 6% of students are allowed to attend. Further, they don't base it on skin color, but actual achievement. You want Euro-Socialist rules? Then support ALL of them.

 

[Uncensored2008]

English please.

^ perfect example of why "free" college for all is a stupid idea.

 

[NYcarbineer]

[]

So those who want healthcare that costs money, but they don't have the money, should just go without?

Again, no dead children in the streets, despite your absurd lies. America has provided health care to those in need for the last century or more.

Those who want an education that costs money, but they don't have the money, should just go without?

There are always ways.

But college for all is a fucktarded idea that renders college meaningless.

High school used to have a meaning. No more, we mandated that everyone will graduate from high school, so now it is a watered down mess that ensure nothing, not even the ability to construct a coherent sentence.

You Communists love to holler that college is free in Germany. That may be, but only the top 6% of students are allowed to attend. Further, they don't base it on skin color, but actual achievement. You want Euro-Socialist rules? Then support ALL of them.

We provide government healthcare to the poor DESPITE every effort of conservatives to stop it.

It is only that conservatives FAILED that the poor now get that healthcare.

We must never let conservatives succeed.

Get it now?

 

[Uncensored2008]

We provide government healthcare to the poor DESPITE every effort of conservatives to stop it.

What efforts were those?

You are simply lying, as Communists tend to do.

It is only that conservatives FAILED that the poor now get that healthcare.

We must never let conservatives succeed.

Get it now?

Yes, I get it - you're lying.

 

[NYcarbineer]

English please.

^ perfect example of why "free" college for all is a stupid idea.

When you talk in gibberish, you're getting called out on it.

 

[NYcarbineer]

We provide government healthcare to the poor DESPITE every effort of conservatives to stop it.

What efforts were those?

You are simply lying, as Communists tend to do.

It is only that conservatives FAILED that the poor now get that healthcare.

We must never let conservatives succeed.

Get it now?

Yes, I get it - you're lying.

Conservative opposition to Medicaid. If you wish to argue that conservatives do and always have heartily supported Medicaid, go ahead.

Throw in your argument to show conservative praise for LBJ's war on poverty legislation overall while you're at it.

 

[Uncensored2008]

When you talk in gibberish, you're getting called out on it.

Your inability to grasp simple words and phrases has no impact on anyone save you.