No One Has a Right to Health Care

[Uncensored2008]

What Beagle9 and the other Communists here cannot grasp, there are ALWAYS limits to available resources. The question is simply how do we allocate the resources we have? In our society, we have used money, as it provides an incentive to the service provider to provide the best care possible. BUT that care is contingent on the ability of the consumer to pay.

Beagle9 and the other Communists want to change the method of allocation to one of coercion. Under their plan, everyone gets a little bit of care, no one gets quality care.

Basically, if there is a pot of soup that feeds 10, and the chef sells his soup to those who have money, then 10 people get really good soup. Beagle9 comes along and wails "NO FAIR" everyone has a "right" to soup for free. A thousand people stand in line, but there is only enough soup to feed 10. The government overseer cracks his whip and tells the chef that everyone gets soup, or he gets the whip on his back. So what to do? The only thing he can do, add 999 gallons of water to the soup and give everyone the diluted mess.

And this is what happens when the Communists get hold of healthcare. The amount of service doesn't increase, in fact considering the loss of incentive and the presence of coercion, the number of doctors, American born and educated, drops tremendously. So we water it down with trade school "technicians" and foreign "doctors" who follow a script and don't really know how to practice medicine.

What the Communists like Beagle9 cannot grasp is that reality is. Even if they get the power to force others to adapt to their mindless fantasy, reality will still assert itself.

 

[kaz]

What Beagle9 and the other Communists here cannot grasp, there are ALWAYS limits to available resources. The question is simply how do we allocate the resources we have? In our society, we have used money, as it provides an incentive to the service provider to provide the best care possible. BUT that care is contingent on the ability of the consumer to pay.

Beagle9 and the other Communists want to change the method of allocation to one of coercion. Under their plan, everyone gets a little bit of care, no one gets quality care.

Basically, if there is a pot of soup that feeds 10, and the chef sells his soup to those who have money, then 10 people get really good soup. Beagle9 comes along and wails "NO FAIR" everyone has a "right" to soup for free. A thousand people stand in line, but there is only enough soup to feed 10. The government overseer cracks his whip and tells the chef that everyone gets soup, or he gets the whip on his back. So what to do? The only thing he can do, add 999 gallons of water to the soup and give everyone the diluted mess.

And this is what happens when the Communists get hold of healthcare. The amount of service doesn't increase, in fact considering the loss of incentive and the presence of coercion, the number of doctors, American born and educated, drops tremendously. So we water it down with trade school "technicians" and foreign "doctors" who follow a script and don't really know how to practice medicine.

What the Communists like Beagle9 cannot grasp is that reality is. Even if they get the power to force others to adapt to their mindless fantasy, reality will still assert itself.

You just have to look what happened in the Soviet Union before their economic collapse took them out

 

[Uncensored2008]

What morons like Beagle9 imagine is there is a big bucket of health care that is never ending, but the Capitalists just keep it all to themselves because they are mean.

The socialist mind is not capable of comprehending that products must be MADE before they can be looted by the greedy, grubbing socialists. That services must be PERFORMED by a person and that to be of any worth, the person performing them must be qualified.

What creates a socialist like Beagle9 is the lack of cognitive function requisite to connect cause and effect.

Want is a valuable part of the human experience. Want is often the motivator for action. But want without action creates nothing. What socialists lack is the ability to comprehend that positive action must accompany want. Beagle wants others to serve him, but he offers nothing in return, he want to use the government to enslave others simply because he has wants. He calls his wants "rights," but as dblack has well illustrated, they are not rights, simply wants.

No one owes the socialist anything, no one as an innate obligation to satiate the never ending greed of the statist who thinks that a whip in the hands of an overseer is the proper means of obtaining what he desires. Beagle9 and his fellow travellers may well enslave the men of talent, those who create the life saving miracles he lusts for. But it ALWAYS turns bitter when the socialists gain control. Talent flees enslavement. Discovery of new treatments falls off and the mediocre become the practitioners of the treatments developed by others. Doctors are replaced by technicians following scripts they don't understand.

Water is added to the soup to mask the fact that there isn't enough to go around. Instead of most getting excellent care with some left out, all get substandard care, the watery gruel of the state.

 

[Campbell]

Near as I can tell....it's still not a right.

Not for the poor in red states, but for people with pre-existing, and everyone else, YUP. It's not ACA's fault that it will take time for competition and regulation to bring down costs of the old, corrupt GOP "system".

Oh, Commie Care is the Republicans fault again, huh?

Well......at least you didn't say it was Reagan's fault which is what you usually say.

"The best part about being a Democrat is never having to say you were wrong."
Ray from Cleveland

Overwhelming % of problems with ACA are in red states and areas, dupe. Your problems and the ones in the article are from avoiding it due to to believing Pub propaganda.

The ACA is a small player right now.

That is what the GOP does not get.

It will settle in and become larger.

A larger mess.

I agree. Anything the Govt. sticks its big fat nose in becomes red tape, rules, regulations, long waits. In short a fucking mess that people have to wade through.

My wife and I worked a combined 84 years for a prime contractor for the government in Oak Ridge, TN. I'll take what you say under advisement the next time I cash our monthly pension and social security checks. If not for the government all of us would be goose stepping and speaking German.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Not for the poor in red states, but for people with pre-existing, and everyone else, YUP. It's not ACA's fault that it will take time for competition and regulation to bring down costs of the old, corrupt GOP "system".

Oh, Commie Care is the Republicans fault again, huh?

Well......at least you didn't say it was Reagan's fault which is what you usually say.

"The best part about being a Democrat is never having to say you were wrong."
Ray from Cleveland

Overwhelming % of problems with ACA are in red states and areas, dupe. Your problems and the ones in the article are from avoiding it due to to believing Pub propaganda.

The ACA is a small player right now.

That is what the GOP does not get.

It will settle in and become larger.

A larger mess.

I agree. Anything the Govt. sticks its big fat nose in becomes red tape, rules, regulations, long waits. In short a fucking mess that people have to wade through.

My wife and I worked a combined 84 years for a prime contractor for the government in Oak Ridge, TN. I'll take what you say under advisement the next time I cash our monthly pension and social security checks. If not for the government all of us would be goose stepping and speaking German.

Someone makes money in a ponzi scheme.

 

[Contumacious]

We now have flights to Cuba, Venezuela , Somalia , any paradise you wish

..
Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out

Esther La Vista, Dude

So if some Americans have a right to health care and some do not, who should decide and on what basis?

As an American you have a right to life, liberty, property and to pursue happiness.

Under the old Constitution (1787-1935) Taxpayers and producers had no responsibility to provide them to you. You were responsible for procuring the same.

But the Constitution now in effect, FDR's Socialist Manifesto , the government can compel the citizens to do what the government believes is right. No right to judicial review.


.

. How can anyone here or there, stake a claim upon or actually have a right to life, if the person or person's put off available healthcare because at that moment in time (let's say that the person might be in a transitional period of somekind in life), where as they may actually put off the very thing that would guarantee his or her life if it weren't avoided, and they did so all because of a lack of healthcare or a lack of money ? How does one have a right to life, but are stereotyped or profiled as some sort of trash or scum all because one might have to go around to the ER back door, instead of walking into the front door with an appointment ? What is the quality of healthcare in the waiting lines of the ER ? I know of people dying right there in the ER, because the ER didn't know the person or their condition when walk in... How did they have a right to life in such a situation ?

If healthcare is that important to you you must make sure that you eat healthy and exercise. You must stay gainfully employed so that you can afford the healthcare premiums.

You must not let government regulate or interfere with healthcare delivery so that it won't become prohibitively expensive.

But FDR's Socialist Manifesto Rules, Americans have been bamboozled to believe that the government must steal from taxpayers and producers to provide the service.

Welfare State = Government buy the people

In my proposal the government isn't stealing from anyone, but rather it is just giving us our taxpayers money's worth by handling our account instead of the private sector who has extreme profit motive in it's interest, and offers plans that are not worth the money we are forced to give them because the market place is rigged and unfair. We need more and better options, but where not getting them.

Again, in a free market system you deal with whatever entity you trust.

You and your friends can pool your funds and deal with whomever.

The advantage being that I am free to deal with any company I choose and the government can not ruin our healthcare system.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Again, in a free market system you deal with whatever entity you trust.

You and your friends can pool your funds and deal with whomever.

The advantage being that I am free to deal with any company I choose and the government can not ruin our healthcare system.

Beagle demands a system where he is free to spend your money any way he sees fit.

 

[francoHFW]

Again, in a free market system you deal with whatever entity you trust.

You and your friends can pool your funds and deal with whomever.

The advantage being that I am free to deal with any company I choose and the government can not ruin our healthcare system.

Beagle demands a system where he is free to spend your money any way he sees fit.

It's called an intelligent system that will save everyone money, dupe.

 

[Claudette]

Not for the poor in red states, but for people with pre-existing, and everyone else, YUP. It's not ACA's fault that it will take time for competition and regulation to bring down costs of the old, corrupt GOP "system".

Oh, Commie Care is the Republicans fault again, huh?

Well......at least you didn't say it was Reagan's fault which is what you usually say.

"The best part about being a Democrat is never having to say you were wrong."
Ray from Cleveland

Overwhelming % of problems with ACA are in red states and areas, dupe. Your problems and the ones in the article are from avoiding it due to to believing Pub propaganda.

The ACA is a small player right now.

That is what the GOP does not get.

It will settle in and become larger.

A larger mess.

I agree. Anything the Govt. sticks its big fat nose in becomes red tape, rules, regulations, long waits. In short a fucking mess that people have to wade through.

My wife and I worked a combined 84 years for a prime contractor for the government in Oak Ridge, TN. I'll take what you say under advisement the next time I cash our monthly pension and social security checks. If not for the government all of us would be goose stepping and speaking German.

Well that explains your love of Govt. After all we taxpayers have been over paying you and your wife for 84 years.

Yup. You and the Clowns in DC have made a pretty good life for yourselves using tax money.

As for your 84 years of service?? Service my ass. 84 years of under performing and being paid with someone else's money. Hope you choke on it.

 

[francoHFW]

What dismal ignorant people hater dupes are politically...

 

[Claudette]

What dismal ignorant people hater dupes are politically...

You should know as you bring hater dupe to a whole new meaning.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

145 IQ, Masters in History. You, masters in RW propaganda.

Your Masters are in food stamp scamming and getting HUD homes. Who are you trying to kid????

Yours is constantly cutting tax rates for the rich, continuing to spend trillions on the military even though we're already more powerful than the next eight most powerful combined and the last time anyone actually surrendered to us was in August, 1945. The national debt belongs to Republicans......they are the ones who cut tax rates, continued to increase spending and borrowed the shortfall from foreign banks.

Then maybe you should look at a federal deficit chart and see when the deficit decreased; it was after the Republicans took leadership of Congress. And remember since that time, it's the Republicans who fought against DumBama and all his spending sprees.

And while you're at it, see what the Republicans did last time they had a major tax change. That's right, they increased taxes on the rich.

You either can't read or you're stupid. I select the latter. Look closely and let this sink in a bit. It's amazing what ending a war or two will do for spending:

Either you're trying to get away with another lie or you are absolutely clueless how our government works.

Congress are the people with the US checkbook. They decide how money is spent or not spent. The Congress leadership during both Clinton's and DumBama's terms were mostly Republican. It was Democrat leadership under Reagan.

Now look at your chart again and see if you can properly figure it out.

 

[beagle9]

. How can anyone here or there, stake a claim upon or actually have a right to life, if the person or person's put off available healthcare because at that moment in time (let's say that the person might be in a transitional period of somekind in life), where as they may actually put off the very thing that would guarantee his or her life if it weren't avoided, and they did so all because of a lack of healthcare or a lack of money ? How does one have a right to life, but are stereotyped or profiled as some sort of trash or scum all because one might have to go around to the ER back door, instead of walking into the front door with an appointment ? What is the quality of healthcare in the waiting lines of the ER ? I know of people dying right there in the ER, because the ER didn't know the person or their condition when walk in... How did they have a right to life in such a situation ?

If healthcare is that important to you you must make sure that you eat healthy and exercise. You must stay gainfully employed so that you can afford the healthcare premiums.

You must not let government regulate or interfere with healthcare delivery so that it won't become prohibitively expensive.

But FDR's Socialist Manifesto Rules, Americans have been bamboozled to believe that the government must steal from taxpayers and producers to provide the service.

Welfare State = Government buy the people

In my proposal the government isn't stealing from anyone, but rather it is just giving us our taxpayers money's worth by handling our account instead of the private sector who has extreme profit motive in it's interest, and offers plans that are not worth the money we are forced to give them because the market place is rigged and unfair. We need more and better options, but where not getting them.

And the word "marxist" bothers you why again exactly, Karl?

. Call me anything you won't, but why don't you contend with the ideas listed by showing the flaws in them or why I'm wrong about things ?

The irony that you don't like Republicans owning your body, then you want government ... to own your body. Government decides what and how much healthcare you get. Wow, nuts

. Another misleading statement about my ideas. Government doesn't decide anything, because we would have the power to decide for ourselves where we use our healthcare card issued us. The taxes are deducted just like SS is from our income.

It shouldn't be (with an American pool so large), no more than around $8.00 dollars a week deduction or less would be the amount deducted. Then when we use the healthcare card at the legitimate places of our choice, it then spurs the market into competitions for us... This is a great thing. We all win. The government just handles our accounts and cards issued us. They don't dictate anything to us, and the market will respond to us in kind if we have that kind of power invested in us.

 

[beagle9]

Call me anything you want, but why don't you contend with the ideas listed by showing the flaws in them or why I'm wrong about things ?

I've done that many times in this thread, Comrade.

. No, you have tried to manipulate this thread, and not be honest as you should be in it.... Heck maybe you can't be honest, because it ain't in you.

 

[beagle9]

In my proposal the government isn't stealing from anyone, but rather it is just giving us our taxpayers money's worth by handling our account instead of the private sector who has extreme profit motive in it's interest, and offers plans that are not worth the money we are forced to give them because the market place is rigged and unfair. We need more and better options, but where not getting them.

That's because you personally think you will get some of the booty.

You seek to have government take from others and give to you. Your motive is personal profit.

The difference between you and Capitalists is that Capitalists offer value in return for what they want. You use government of offer a bullet or prison if we don't give you what you want.

. Your words, and they are foolish words indeed. What are you, some sort of hack for private insurance interest ?

 

[beagle9]

145 IQ, Masters in History. You, masters in RW propaganda.

Your Masters are in food stamp scamming and getting HUD homes. Who are you trying to kid????

Yours is constantly cutting tax rates for the rich, continuing to spend trillions on the military even though we're already more powerful than the next eight most powerful combined and the last time anyone actually surrendered to us was in August, 1945. The national debt belongs to Republicans......they are the ones who cut tax rates, continued to increase spending and borrowed the shortfall from foreign banks.

Then maybe you should look at a federal deficit chart and see when the deficit decreased; it was after the Republicans took leadership of Congress. And remember since that time, it's the Republicans who fought against DumBama and all his spending sprees.

And while you're at it, see what the Republicans did last time they had a major tax change. That's right, they increased taxes on the rich.

You either can't read or you're stupid. I select the latter. Look closely and let this sink in a bit. It's amazing what ending a war or two will do for spending:

. Would be better if it said slowest savings in decades.

 

[kaz]

If healthcare is that important to you you must make sure that you eat healthy and exercise. You must stay gainfully employed so that you can afford the healthcare premiums.

You must not let government regulate or interfere with healthcare delivery so that it won't become prohibitively expensive.

But FDR's Socialist Manifesto Rules, Americans have been bamboozled to believe that the government must steal from taxpayers and producers to provide the service.

Welfare State = Government buy the people

In my proposal the government isn't stealing from anyone, but rather it is just giving us our taxpayers money's worth by handling our account instead of the private sector who has extreme profit motive in it's interest, and offers plans that are not worth the money we are forced to give them because the market place is rigged and unfair. We need more and better options, but where not getting them.

And the word "marxist" bothers you why again exactly, Karl?

. Call me anything you won't, but why don't you contend with the ideas listed by showing the flaws in them or why I'm wrong about things ?

The irony that you don't like Republicans owning your body, then you want government ... to own your body. Government decides what and how much healthcare you get. Wow, nuts

. Another misleading statement about my ideas. Government doesn't decide anything, because we would have the power to decide for ourselves where we use our healthcare card issued us. The taxes are deducted just like SS is from our income.

It shouldn't be (with an American pool so large), no more than around $8.00 dollars a week deduction or less would be the amount deducted. Then when we use the healthcare card at the legitimate places of our choice, it then spurs the market into competitions for us... This is a great thing. We all win. The government just handles our accounts and cards issued us. They don't dictate anything to us, and the market will respond to us in kind if we have that kind of power invested in us.

So when government controls our health plans and decides what procedures they cover and what they pay, that isn't government "deciding anything."

Um ... I don't get it. What's the punch line?

 

[NYcarbineer]

In my proposal the government isn't stealing from anyone, but rather it is just giving us our taxpayers money's worth by handling our account instead of the private sector who has extreme profit motive in it's interest, and offers plans that are not worth the money we are forced to give them because the market place is rigged and unfair. We need more and better options, but where not getting them.

And the word "marxist" bothers you why again exactly, Karl?

. Call me anything you won't, but why don't you contend with the ideas listed by showing the flaws in them or why I'm wrong about things ?

The irony that you don't like Republicans owning your body, then you want government ... to own your body. Government decides what and how much healthcare you get. Wow, nuts

. Another misleading statement about my ideas. Government doesn't decide anything, because we would have the power to decide for ourselves where we use our healthcare card issued us. The taxes are deducted just like SS is from our income.

It shouldn't be (with an American pool so large), no more than around $8.00 dollars a week deduction or less would be the amount deducted. Then when we use the healthcare card at the legitimate places of our choice, it then spurs the market into competitions for us... This is a great thing. We all win. The government just handles our accounts and cards issued us. They don't dictate anything to us, and the market will respond to us in kind if we have that kind of power invested in us.

So when government controls our health plans and decides what procedures they cover and what they pay, that isn't government "deciding anything."

Um ... I don't get it. What's the punch line?

If you want children to die for lack of affordable healthcare so you can save some pennies, just say so,

or deny it.

 

[Contumacious]

What Beagle9 and the other Communists here cannot grasp, there are ALWAYS limits to available resources. The question is simply how do we allocate the resources we have? In our society, we have used money, as it provides an incentive to the service provider to provide the best care possible. BUT that care is contingent on the ability of the consumer to pay.

Beagle9 and the other Communists want to change the method of allocation to one of coercion. Under their plan, everyone gets a little bit of care, no one gets quality care.

Basically, if there is a pot of soup that feeds 10, and the chef sells his soup to those who have money, then 10 people get really good soup. Beagle9 comes along and wails "NO FAIR" everyone has a "right" to soup for free. A thousand people stand in line, but there is only enough soup to feed 10. The government overseer cracks his whip and tells the chef that everyone gets soup, or he gets the whip on his back. So what to do? The only thing he can do, add 999 gallons of water to the soup and give everyone the diluted mess.

And this is what happens when the Communists get hold of healthcare. The amount of service doesn't increase, in fact considering the loss of incentive and the presence of coercion, the number of doctors, American born and educated, drops tremendously. So we water it down with trade school "technicians" and foreign "doctors" who follow a script and don't really know how to practice medicine.

What the Communists like Beagle9 cannot grasp is that reality is. Even if they get the power to force others to adapt to their mindless fantasy, reality will still assert itself.

You just have to look what happened in the Soviet Union before their economic collapse took them out

Soviet Doctors used to say the state pretends to pay us and we pretend to provide healthcare.

In order to be seen by a Soviet Doctor a patient had to pay bribes.


The socialists , the berners and other fruitcakes are in for a rude awakening.


.

 

[dblack]

If healthcare is that important to you you must make sure that you eat healthy and exercise. You must stay gainfully employed so that you can afford the healthcare premiums.

You must not let government regulate or interfere with healthcare delivery so that it won't become prohibitively expensive.

But FDR's Socialist Manifesto Rules, Americans have been bamboozled to believe that the government must steal from taxpayers and producers to provide the service.

Welfare State = Government buy the people

In my proposal the government isn't stealing from anyone, but rather it is just giving us our taxpayers money's worth by handling our account instead of the private sector who has extreme profit motive in it's interest, and offers plans that are not worth the money we are forced to give them because the market place is rigged and unfair. We need more and better options, but where not getting them.

And the word "marxist" bothers you why again exactly, Karl?

. Call me anything you won't, but why don't you contend with the ideas listed by showing the flaws in them or why I'm wrong about things ?

The irony that you don't like Republicans owning your body, then you want government ... to own your body. Government decides what and how much healthcare you get. Wow, nuts

. Another misleading statement about my ideas. Government doesn't decide anything, because we would have the power to decide for ourselves where we use our healthcare card issued us. The taxes are deducted just like SS is from our income. .

We've talked about this before. If government is "handling your account" they're going to make decisions about what kinds of health care "your account" can be used for. How can you deny that?