No One Has a Right to Health Care

[beagle9]

Almost all UK hospitals are in the red due to NHS crunch

The U.K. National Health Society’s (NHS) ongoing financial problems are jeopardizing almost all of England’s hospitals, according to a special report from BBC.

The moral of the story is that socialized medicine does NOT work.

. Well then they have run it wrong, and now it's showing up or it has been sabotaged over the years because of (?) corruption and fraud.

 

[beagle9]

. Call me anything you won't, but why don't you contend with the ideas listed by showing the flaws in them or why I'm wrong about things ?

The irony that you don't like Republicans owning your body, then you want government ... to own your body. Government decides what and how much healthcare you get. Wow, nuts

. Another misleading statement about my ideas. Government doesn't decide anything, because we would have the power to decide for ourselves where we use our healthcare card issued us. The taxes are deducted just like SS is from our income. .

We've talked about this before. If government is "handling your account" they're going to make decisions about what kinds of health care "your account" can be used for. How can you deny that?

. If we take back our government, then government would work great for us, but as long as we keep the government we have kept, then we can't trust it just like we can't trust anything else much anymore. Isn't it amazing how sad our nation is ?

Right, we just need to find politicians who aren't corruptible by money. No sweat. You actually still believe in the easter bunny and the tooth fairy too, don't you, Beav?

. Hey you and me keep voting for them, so what is it that you believe when cast your vote ?

 

[beagle9]

. Call me anything you won't, but why don't you contend with the ideas listed by showing the flaws in them or why I'm wrong about things ?

The irony that you don't like Republicans owning your body, then you want government ... to own your body. Government decides what and how much healthcare you get. Wow, nuts

. Another misleading statement about my ideas. Government doesn't decide anything, because we would have the power to decide for ourselves where we use our healthcare card issued us. The taxes are deducted just like SS is from our income.

It shouldn't be (with an American pool so large), no more than around $8.00 dollars a week deduction or less would be the amount deducted. Then when we use the healthcare card at the legitimate places of our choice, it then spurs the market into competitions for us... This is a great thing. We all win. The government just handles our accounts and cards issued us. They don't dictate anything to us, and the market will respond to us in kind if we have that kind of power invested in us.

Sounds great except one thing: if WE get to decide where to go for our healthcare treatment, wouldn't we all be choosing the top rated clinics, hospitals and doctors?

For instance I'm a patient at the world famous Cleveland Clinic. I've been a patient there all of my life since a child. They are renown for their medical breakthroughs, their recovery record, their most knowledgable doctors and staff.

I think that if government did give us this card (as you call it) then a lot of people would want the same top ranked care that I get. Don't get me wrong, it's not like it's the only place in town, we have many good hospitals and doctors outside of the clinic, but on the other hand, there are places I wouldn't trust to take care of my dog as well.

And if government is the only game in town, do you think they would allow us to be overweight, smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol, use recreational narcotics, involve ourselves in dangerous activities or sports????

. Hopefully the bad places would fall by the wayside, and the best care would become the norm for us all if it is legit... We should have total control on where the card is used, but the card will only cover our basic life sustaining care, and it will not cover cosmetic, birth control, transgender surgeries and etc. In which would be deemed as non-life threatening situations in which would then call for prcedures services or products that are offered by the market places.

Seriously, you believe that. So now, government requires all insurance companies to cover things like sex changes (San Francisco) and hair transplants (Connecticut). But your politicians you find who are immune to lobbying to keep their lifetime career in Congress and the Senate won't be swayed by lobbyists to fund their campaigns when they have the absolute power of government guns to do whatever they want?

Feel behind your ears. It is actually wet, isn't it?

. Government shouldn't be demanding any provider, cake Baker or anyone to do something against their will.. Period.

It should only manage the deduction, and insured in that of the basic coverage it gives the participating taxpayers.

The people are the deciders of their shopping for healthcare, and where they use their card.

By consensus of the taxpayers, and with a petitioning of the govenment over bad providers, then some providers would be banned from offering services to the government insured. Again the key is letting us decide, not dictator's with an agenda like we've had in the Democrats and some Republicans who go along.

 

[beagle9]

All Americans should have a right to a basic insurance plan that is paid for with a deduction out of their incomes. It should be a plan that covers the basic life sustaining needs of the American. Extra coverage should be allowed to be purchased outside of the government plan, because the government is not a dictatorship and should never be a dictatorship.

 

[dblack]

The irony that you don't like Republicans owning your body, then you want government ... to own your body. Government decides what and how much healthcare you get. Wow, nuts

. Another misleading statement about my ideas. Government doesn't decide anything, because we would have the power to decide for ourselves where we use our healthcare card issued us. The taxes are deducted just like SS is from our income. .

We've talked about this before. If government is "handling your account" they're going to make decisions about what kinds of health care "your account" can be used for. How can you deny that?

. If we take back our government, then government would work great for us, but as long as we keep the government we have kept, then we can't trust it just like we can't trust anything else much anymore. Isn't it amazing how sad our nation is ?

I don't know what you're getting at. You claimed that, under a system where government was providing our health insurance, "Government doesn't decide anything, because we would have the power to decide for ourselves where we use our healthcare card issued us." But that would never be true. The card would only be approved for use at healthcare providers authorized by government. Are you seriously saying that would not be the case, that we could, for example, use our healthcare card for "alternative medicine" (homeopathy, acupuncture, faith-healers, etc...)?

. Nope we could not, because the basic coverage wouldn't cover such things as that to be found within the coverage... If want those things, a person would have to purchase added coverage in the free market place that may offer such a thing.

Then you have to acknowledge that government will be deciding for us. You can't have it both ways.

The government insurance is just a basic plan that everyone will have, but it won,'t stop anyone from purchasing additional plans that they think would be helpful to them and their needs. No one would not want to have the basic plan, because it would be so cheap in cost that it wouldn't even be noticed. I would welcome $8.00 dollars a week from my income to have a basic healthcare insurance that would never be canceled, and would be with me till retirement age, and then a formula would be worked out to add to my retirement plan a percentage of the health plan in which could be rolled over to my retirement if I hadn't used it much over the years.

You're doing an awfully lot of presuming here. You're assuming it would be cheap and you're assuming everyone would want it. If both of those turn out to be true, then why can't it be voluntary? If you're right, that "no one would not want it", then there's no need to force them to pay for it, right?

 

[dblack]

All Americans should have a right to a basic insurance plan that is paid for with a deduction out of their incomes. It should be a plan that covers the basic life sustaining needs of the American. Extra coverage should be allowed to be purchased outside of the government plan, because the government is not a dictatorship and should never be a dictatorship.

The irony that you don't like Republicans owning your body, then you want government ... to own your body. Government decides what and how much healthcare you get. Wow, nuts

. Another misleading statement about my ideas. Government doesn't decide anything, because we would have the power to decide for ourselves where we use our healthcare card issued us. The taxes are deducted just like SS is from our income.

It shouldn't be (with an American pool so large), no more than around $8.00 dollars a week deduction or less would be the amount deducted. Then when we use the healthcare card at the legitimate places of our choice, it then spurs the market into competitions for us... This is a great thing. We all win. The government just handles our accounts and cards issued us. They don't dictate anything to us, and the market will respond to us in kind if we have that kind of power invested in us.

Sounds great except one thing: if WE get to decide where to go for our healthcare treatment, wouldn't we all be choosing the top rated clinics, hospitals and doctors?

For instance I'm a patient at the world famous Cleveland Clinic. I've been a patient there all of my life since a child. They are renown for their medical breakthroughs, their recovery record, their most knowledgable doctors and staff.

I think that if government did give us this card (as you call it) then a lot of people would want the same top ranked care that I get. Don't get me wrong, it's not like it's the only place in town, we have many good hospitals and doctors outside of the clinic, but on the other hand, there are places I wouldn't trust to take care of my dog as well.

And if government is the only game in town, do you think they would allow us to be overweight, smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol, use recreational narcotics, involve ourselves in dangerous activities or sports????

. Hopefully the bad places would fall by the wayside, and the best care would become the norm for us all if it is legit... We should have total control on where the card is used, but the card will only cover our basic life sustaining care, and it will not cover cosmetic, birth control, transgender surgeries and etc. In which would be deemed as non-life threatening situations in which would then call for prcedures services or products that are offered by the market places.

Seriously, you believe that. So now, government requires all insurance companies to cover things like sex changes (San Francisco) and hair transplants (Connecticut). But your politicians you find who are immune to lobbying to keep their lifetime career in Congress and the Senate won't be swayed by lobbyists to fund their campaigns when they have the absolute power of government guns to do whatever they want?

Feel behind your ears. It is actually wet, isn't it?

. Government shouldn't be demanding any provider, cake Baker or anyone to do something against their will.. Period.

This is something you just don't seem to get. Every single thing government does rests on forcing someone to do something against their will. That's what distinguishes government from all other social institutions.

It should only manage the deduction, and insured in that of the basic coverage it gives the participating taxpayers.

And if someone doesn't want to make such a deduction? If they want to spend that money on something else, something that makes more sense to them, what will the government do?

 

[kaz]

The basic coverage that will be issued all Americans with a card to use, will be affordable due the entire nation participating in it

You mean like Obamacare where the insurers are bailing and rates are soaring because of all the money they are losing?

 

[Rustic]

Free healthcare is for pussys...

 

[beagle9]

. Another misleading statement about my ideas. Government doesn't decide anything, because we would have the power to decide for ourselves where we use our healthcare card issued us. The taxes are deducted just like SS is from our income. .

We've talked about this before. If government is "handling your account" they're going to make decisions about what kinds of health care "your account" can be used for. How can you deny that?

. If we take back our government, then government would work great for us, but as long as we keep the government we have kept, then we can't trust it just like we can't trust anything else much anymore. Isn't it amazing how sad our nation is ?

I don't know what you're getting at. You claimed that, under a system where government was providing our health insurance, "Government doesn't decide anything, because we would have the power to decide for ourselves where we use our healthcare card issued us." But that would never be true. The card would only be approved for use at healthcare providers authorized by government. Are you seriously saying that would not be the case, that we could, for example, use our healthcare card for "alternative medicine" (homeopathy, acupuncture, faith-healers, etc...)?

. Nope we could not, because the basic coverage wouldn't cover such things as that to be found within the coverage... If want those things, a person would have to purchase added coverage in the free market place that may offer such a thing.

Then you have to acknowledge that government will be deciding for us. You can't have it both ways.

The government insurance is just a basic plan that everyone will have, but it won,'t stop anyone from purchasing additional plans that they think would be helpful to them and their needs. No one would not want to have the basic plan, because it would be so cheap in cost that it wouldn't even be noticed. I would welcome $8.00 dollars a week from my income to have a basic healthcare insurance that would never be canceled, and would be with me till retirement age, and then a formula would be worked out to add to my retirement plan a percentage of the health plan in which could be rolled over to my retirement if I hadn't used it much over the years.

You're doing an awfully lot of presuming here. You're assuming it would be cheap and you're assuming everyone would want it. If both of those turn out to be true, then why can't it be voluntary? If you're right, that "no one would not want it", then there's no need to force them to pay for it, right?

. Why would you not want to participate in such a basic plan if it is cheap enough, and offers coverage that is decent when it comes to making choices by you on how to use your coverage offered you ? It has to be that enough people are in the pool to get the cost down, and to offer the best options for care in the market place (I.e. in which the plan would honor). Why would any American not want to engage in something that helps everyone ? We should have some perks for being American in America, and not just be subjected to the forces of evil who wants to take advantage of us every which way we turn.

 

[beagle9]

The basic coverage that will be issued all Americans with a card to use, will be affordable due the entire nation participating in it

You mean like Obamacare where the insurers are bailing and rates are soaring because of all the money they are losing?

. I am against Obamacare. Next question...

 

[Rustic]

Obamacare is slavery... Taxed

 

[beagle9]

Free healthcare is for pussys...

. Why do you say it's free when it isn't free ?

 

[beagle9]

Obamacare is slavery... Taxed

. Obamcare was a bad idea and plan...

 

[Rustic]

Sorry ass shit, let's have other people pay for our shit...
Socialism

 

[dblack]

Why would you not want to participate in such a basic plan if it is cheap enough, and offers coverage that is decent when it comes to making choices by you on how to use your coverage offered you ?

Who knows? The point is, some would, and you seem to be acknowledging here that, under your proposed program, they would be forced to participate against their will. This is what most liberals can't bring themselves to recognize: that their urge to use government to bring about social change is the urge to use coercion to achieve their goals. It's essentially abandoning the effort to persuade people to voluntarily do something that you think is a good idea, and forcing them to do it instead. It's a fundamentally authoritarian point of view.

 

[beagle9]

Sorry ass shit, let's have other people pay for our shit...
Socialism

. Are you just a closed minded drone, and isn't that what is being rebuked by the Trump & Cruz supporters ? Is it that you can't debate something like Ray or dblack, so all you have is little one liners to cover up your closed mind in life ?.... Nothing for the common man or woman with people like you, and that has been a major problem in this nation. Are you a supporter of the Marines "never leave a man behind" or are you a coward that would leave a man behind ?

 

[kaz]

The irony that you don't like Republicans owning your body, then you want government ... to own your body. Government decides what and how much healthcare you get. Wow, nuts

. Another misleading statement about my ideas. Government doesn't decide anything, because we would have the power to decide for ourselves where we use our healthcare card issued us. The taxes are deducted just like SS is from our income. .

We've talked about this before. If government is "handling your account" they're going to make decisions about what kinds of health care "your account" can be used for. How can you deny that?

. If we take back our government, then government would work great for us, but as long as we keep the government we have kept, then we can't trust it just like we can't trust anything else much anymore. Isn't it amazing how sad our nation is ?

Right, we just need to find politicians who aren't corruptible by money. No sweat. You actually still believe in the easter bunny and the tooth fairy too, don't you, Beav?

. Hey you and me keep voting for them, so what is it that you believe when cast your vote ?

I do? I vote almost entirely third party. I actually want change

 

[kaz]

Government shouldn't be demanding any provider, cake Baker or anyone to do something against their will.. Period

Yes, Virginia. but here's the 411. It does. Why? They have the absolute power of government guns to force people to follow its will. Deal with reality for a change

 

[Rustic]

Sorry ass shit, let's have other people pay for our shit...
Socialism

. Are you just a closed minded drone, and isn't that what is being rebuked by the Trump & Cruz supporters ? Is it that you can't debate something like Ray or dblack, so all you have is little one liners to cover up your closed mind in life ?.... Nothing for the common man or woman with people like you, and that has been a major problem in this nation. Are you a supporter of the Marines "never leave a man behind" or are you a coward that would leave a man behind ?

Socialism = leaves Everyman behind to save the one man, that man being the deadbeat...
Socialism could use a lot of tough love... To be economically viable. Lol

 

[kaz]

The basic coverage that will be issued all Americans with a card to use, will be affordable due the entire nation participating in it

You mean like Obamacare where the insurers are bailing and rates are soaring because of all the money they are losing?

. I am against Obamacare. Next question...

Swish, missed the point