New Website on the American Civil War

[Robert W]

Federal property

Former Federal you mean. SC never made it a secret that they simply quit being in the union.

To relate it to current events, say Trump sent an army into Minnesota who has essentially seceded from the union. Would you approve?

 

[mikegriffith1]

In other words, you can't take the Lincoln government at its word. They are liars. And any who believe any promise made to the South from Lincoln is to be believed, is equally full of *&^%$. The only promise made by Lincoln to the South that he kept was making war against us. He may be a liar, but he had the power to make war, and he made it. Quantrill

I realize this is what you've read over and over in pro-Confederate sources, but it is simply false. Lincoln was trying to avoid using force because he didn't want a war, and the Radicals were increasingly voicing the suspicion, even on the Senate floor, that Lincoln was willing to let the Deep South leave in peace.

Lincoln showed no interest in sending a naval convoy to Sumter for any reason--until Davis idiotically forced his hand by cutting off the garrison's food supply. Once news of the cutoff reached the North, Northern pro-coercion newspapers erupted with screams about the "starving garrison." Even then, Lincoln strove to make the convoy as inoffensive and unprovocative as possible.

If Lincoln harbored any malice toward the South, he certainly didn't show it when he established merciful, modest Reconstruction terms for Louisiana in 1863, well before the war ended. Nor did he show any anti-Southern malice when the South surrendered. He told Grant to give lenient, generous surrender terms, which Grant did.

Lincoln's moderate and forgiving Reconstruction terms were trashed by the Radical Republicans after Lincoln died and after they gained control over Reconstruction.

The Deep South states blundered badly in refusing to honor the 1860 election results, which they were required to do by the Constitution. If they had waited and given Lincoln a chance to see how he would govern, and if Lincoln had proceeded to start persecuting the South, then the Southern states would have had valid reason to leave the Union. But they didn't even give Lincoln a chance.

 

[Robert W]

The Deep South states blundered badly in refusing to honor the 1860 election results, which they were required to do by the Constitution. If they had waited and given Lincoln a chance to see how he would govern, and if Lincoln had proceeded to start persecuting the South, then the Southern states would have had valid reason to leave the Union. But they didn't even give Lincoln a chance.

What is strange is how history smokes the Confederates yet exonerates Abe Lincoln who illegally invaded VA.

You know, when you move into a city, you have a right to move to another city. And each city differs in laws and benefits.
Why can't honest Americans admit the states that left the union had the right to leave and assemble a new collection?

 

[rightwinger]

Former Federal you mean. SC never made it a secret that they simply quit being in the union.

To relate it to current events, say Trump sent an army into Minnesota who has essentially seceded from the union. Would you approve?

It was always federal property not S Carolina
The US built Ft Sumter

If S Carolina wanted it they needed to negotiate a purchase.
Taking it by force forced the Civil War
Stupid thing to do

 

[mikegriffith1]

What is strange is how history smokes the Confederates yet exonerates Abe Lincoln who illegally invaded VA.

You know, when you move into a city, you have a right to move to another city. And each city differs in laws and benefits.
Why can't honest Americans admit the states that left the union had the right to leave and assemble a new collection?

I agree that the Deep South states had the right to leave the Union, but they should have had enough common sense and realism to only leave for valid reasons and to leave at an appropriate time. Instead, they refused to fulfill their constitutional duty to honor the 1860 election results, refusing to even give Lincoln a chance to show how he would govern.

They chose the worst possible time to secede and did so for the flimsiest of reasons. The South still controlled the Senate (they would only lose control after the first four states seceded), so they could block any unwanted legislation. Lincoln had made it as clear as language could make something that he had no intention of disturbing slavery where it already existed. Most of his cabinet appointees were conservatives and moderates who likewise had no interest in trying to abolish slavery where it already existed.

 

[bdtex]

captured Confederate Traitors were treated with humanity.

David Owen Dodd: The Teenage Civil War Spy

Explore the life of David Owen Dodd, a teenage spy during the Civil War, his espionage activities, trial, and execution at a young age.

www.tshaonline.org

 

[bdtex]

captured Confederate Traitors were treated with humanity

Sam Davis

Sam Davis was a Confederate scout and spy who was captured and hanged in November 1863.

www.battlefields.org

 

[Robert W]

Jefferson Davis continues concerning the acts of war performed by the North against the South surrounding Fort Sumter.

"Remonstrances and patient, persistent, and reiterated attempts at negotiation for its removal had been made with two successive administrations of the government of the United States--at first by the state of South Carolina, and by the government of the Confederate States after its formation.

"These efforts had been met, not by an open avowal of coercive purposes, but by evasion, prevarication, and perfidy. The agreement of one administration to maintain the status quo at the time when the question arose, was violated in December by the removal of the garrison from its original position to the occupancy of a stronger. Another attempt was made to violate it in January, by the introduction of troops concealed below the deck of the steamer Star of the West, but this was thwarted by the vigilance of the state service.

"The protracted course of fraud and prevarication practiced by Lincoln's administration in the months of March and April has been fully exhibited. It was evident that no confidence whatever could be reposed in any pledge or promise of the federal government as then administered. " (Rise And Fall Of The Confederate Government, Vol. 1, Jefferson Davis, Da Capo Press Inc., p.251-252)

In other words, you can't take the Lincoln government at its word. Its word is shit. They are liars. And any who believe any promise made to the South from Lincoln is to be believed, is equally full of shit. The only promise made by Lincoln to the South that he kept was making war against us. He may be a liar, but he had the power to make war, and he made it.

Quantrill

We have millions of posters who claim Abe was right. We have less than that who agree that the South was composed of states, not vassals of DC. So we must examine what states are.

States are stand-alone governments. To unite does not mean to be held in bondage. Abe was trying to hold the south in bondage and invaded VA as his first step to restoring bondage.

I agree that the Deep South states had the right to leave the Union, but they should have had enough common sense and realism to only leave for valid reasons and to leave at an appropriate time. Instead, they refused to fulfill their constitutional duty to honor the 1860 election results, refusing to even give Lincoln a chance to show how he would govern.

They chose the worst possible time to secede and did so for the flimsiest of reasons. The South still controlled the Senate (they would only lose control after the first four states seceded), so they could block any unwanted legislation. Lincoln had made it as clear as language could make something that he had no intention of disturbing slavery where it already existed. Most of his cabinet appointees were conservatives and moderates who likewise had no interest in trying to abolish slavery where it already existed.

This joins two of your posts and my replies.

First, we must see the South factually as you seem inclined to do, and to form opinions based on facts.
My view is a bit different for the following reasons. The South believed in their own inalienable right as sovereign states to form a government they wanted to live under. I put less emphasis on the election than on their desire to follow a new path. Lincoln declared he would never fight to get rid of slavery. And he had not tried. So that reason can be brushed aside as he was not having problems once elected with slavery. We have his own statements as evidence. You and I have paralleled in various points, so my comments are only intended to pick on the minor differences.

While it is true that the South left, dealt with properly and patiently, slavery would have ended and indeed Abe proposed buying all of the slaves using government bonds and working with the South in that fashion. But he invaded VA.

 

[rightwinger]

States are stand-alone governments. To unite does not mean to be held in bondage. Abe was trying to hold the south in bondage and invaded VA as his first step to restoring bondage.

States are members of the UNITED STATES
Not Independent countries like the European Union

They are represented in Congress and help elect a President
Hardly bondage

VIrginia was a member of the Confederacy and contained its Capital
A legitimate target in a time of war

 

[Robert W]

Um, the South were evil people. They owned slaves. Slave owners are evil.

It was declared legal under the laws of the constitution. Slaves fared far better in the South than they had in Africa. The Supreme court declared slavery was legal. Those were the founder's laws JoeB131

 

[Robert W]

States are members of the UNITED STATES
Not Independent countries like the European Union

They are represented in Congress and help elect a President
Hardly bondage

VIrginia was a member of the Confederacy and contained its Capital
A legitimate target in a time of war

United means in the same club. Club members are not obligated to stay joined forever in the same club. What you are preaching in effect is the rebellion in MN now would rightfully be invaded by Trump. Why?

 

[rightwinger]

United means in the same club. Club members are not obligated to stay joined forever in the same club. What you are preaching in effect is the rebellion in MN now would rightfully be invaded by Trump. Why?

Signing up to our Constitution meant you were forfeiting your sovereignty as an independent state and joined a union of states.

It is not some club you can come and go as you please

 

[rightwinger]

It was declared legal under the laws of the constitution. Slaves fared far better in the South than they had in Africa. The Supreme court declared slavery was legal. Those were the founder's laws JoeB131

Slavery was part of our constitution because southern states insisted on it.

The same states that seceded to ensure slavery existed forever

 

[rightwinger]

You keep conveniently forgetting that Lincoln pushed for the Corwin Amendment, which would have made it impossible for the federal government to abolish slavery. In fact, the Corwin Amendment would have prevented any further constitutional amendments regarding slavery. It would have done the exact same thing that the Crittenden Compromise would have done in terms of federal action on slavery.

Imagine if Lincoln had managed to get that amendment passed.

Instead of history looking at Lincoln as our greatest President, they would be calling him the worst.

 

[Robert W]

Signing up to our Constitution meant you were forfeiting your sovereignty as an independent state and joined a union of states.

It is not some club you can come and go as you please

Will you grace the forum with the law you cite? Show even now in the constitution the law prohibiting states from seceding?

 

[Robert W]

Imagine if Lincoln had managed to get that amendment passed.

Instead of history looking at Lincoln as our greatest President, they would be calling him the worst.

He was the worst. Thanks to his invasions he tops all presidents for causing war deaths.

 

[Robert W]

Slavery was part of our constitution because southern states insisted on it.

The same states that seceded to ensure slavery existed forever

It was the rules of the club you persist in saying the South was part of imbedded in the constitution as declared by the Supreme Court.

 

[rightwinger]

He was the worst. Thanks to his invasions he tops all presidents for causing war deaths.

Lincoln is easily our greatest President
FDR Next

 

[Robert W]

Signing up to our Constitution meant you were forfeiting your sovereignty as an independent state and joined a union of states.

It is not some club you can come and go as you please

Document that in our constitution right now. Bet you can't.

 

[rightwinger]

It was the rules of the club you persist in saying the South was part of imbedded in the constitution as declared by the Supreme Court.

Our nations history is shamed by its pandering to the Souths racial hatred

The Constitution was formed by allowing slavery at the Souths insistence
In the years preceding the Civil War, we pandered to the Souths slavery with Dred Scott, Missouri Compromise, Fugitive Slave Act.
In spite of of our pandering to the South…They STILL seceded

The South was given generous terms in reconstruction

We looked the other way when the South created second class citizens and Jim Crow