New Army 70km+ range super cannon

[longknife]

Leaked photos show the new self-propelled howitzer that will be designated M1299.

And then, it comes up with this:

Read more about it @ Leaked photos show new U.S. Army super cannon in stunning detail

 

[harmonica]

..would need laser guidance/etc at that extreme range ....

 

[White 6]

..would need laser guidance/etc at that extreme range ....

XM1299 Prototype 155 mm Self-Propelled Howitzer | Military-Today.com
To achieve its 70+ km range the XM1299 uses new-generation XM1113 rocket-assisted projectiles. During a demonstration this projectile reached 72 km. Furthermore these projectiles were designed to be compatible with existing M1156 precision-guided kit that has a GPS guidance. The M1156 fuse is simply screwed on conventional 155 mm projectiles and turns them into semi-guided ones.

 

[harmonica]

..would need laser guidance/etc at that extreme range ....

XM1299 Prototype 155 mm Self-Propelled Howitzer | Military-Today.com
To achieve its 70+ km range the XM1299 uses new-generation XM1113 rocket-assisted projectiles. During a demonstration this projectile reached 72 km. Furthermore these projectiles were designed to be compatible with existing M1156 precision-guided kit that has a GPS guidance. The M1156 fuse is simply screwed on conventional 155 mm projectiles and turns them into semi-guided ones.

..what is the accuracy ?

 

[justoffal]

..would need laser guidance/etc at that extreme range ....

XM1299 Prototype 155 mm Self-Propelled Howitzer | Military-Today.com
To achieve its 70+ km range the XM1299 uses new-generation XM1113 rocket-assisted projectiles. During a demonstration this projectile reached 72 km. Furthermore these projectiles were designed to be compatible with existing M1156 precision-guided kit that has a GPS guidance. The M1156 fuse is simply screwed on conventional 155 mm projectiles and turns them into semi-guided ones.

..what is the accuracy ?

If it's laser-guided it should be very high.

 

[basquebromance]

 

[fncceo]

Good Morning!

 

[White 6]

..would need laser guidance/etc at that extreme range ....

XM1299 Prototype 155 mm Self-Propelled Howitzer | Military-Today.com
To achieve its 70+ km range the XM1299 uses new-generation XM1113 rocket-assisted projectiles. During a demonstration this projectile reached 72 km. Furthermore these projectiles were designed to be compatible with existing M1156 precision-guided kit that has a GPS guidance. The M1156 fuse is simply screwed on conventional 155 mm projectiles and turns them into semi-guided ones.

..what is the accuracy ?

If it's laser-guided it should be very high.

The article I quoted did not state the field tested accuracy. My experience is that the U.S. Army does not like to publish data like that. It is kind of like the range of a tank round. I have made a lot of first round hits stationary and moving considerbly beyond any accuracy that was stated. I was never an Artillery Officer. You probably would be calling for a different dellivery system system, if your were not trying to suppress something other than an area target at 70 km / 42 miles. We used to have a nuclear cannon. If used to deliver a nuclear device, absolute accuracy is not that important. Not that I think that is contemplated for the M1299.

 

[harmonica]

..would need laser guidance/etc at that extreme range ....

XM1299 Prototype 155 mm Self-Propelled Howitzer | Military-Today.com
To achieve its 70+ km range the XM1299 uses new-generation XM1113 rocket-assisted projectiles. During a demonstration this projectile reached 72 km. Furthermore these projectiles were designed to be compatible with existing M1156 precision-guided kit that has a GPS guidance. The M1156 fuse is simply screwed on conventional 155 mm projectiles and turns them into semi-guided ones.

..what is the accuracy ?

If it's laser-guided it should be very high.

The article I quoted did not state the field tested accuracy. My experience is that the U.S. Army does not like to publish data like that. It is kind of like the range of a tank round. I have made a lot of first round hits stationary and moving considerbly beyond any accuracy that was stated. I was never an Artillery Officer. You probably would be calling for a different dellivery system system, if your were not trying to suppress something other than an area target at 70 km / 42 miles. We used to have a nuclear cannon. If used to deliver a nuclear device, absolute accuracy is not that important. Not that I think that is contemplated for the M1299.

first round at what range with what system?

 

[Blackrook]

Who are we shooting at with this weapon?

 

[White 6]

..would need laser guidance/etc at that extreme range ....

XM1299 Prototype 155 mm Self-Propelled Howitzer | Military-Today.com
To achieve its 70+ km range the XM1299 uses new-generation XM1113 rocket-assisted projectiles. During a demonstration this projectile reached 72 km. Furthermore these projectiles were designed to be compatible with existing M1156 precision-guided kit that has a GPS guidance. The M1156 fuse is simply screwed on conventional 155 mm projectiles and turns them into semi-guided ones.

..what is the accuracy ?

If it's laser-guided it should be very high.

The article I quoted did not state the field tested accuracy. My experience is that the U.S. Army does not like to publish data like that. It is kind of like the range of a tank round. I have made a lot of first round hits stationary and moving considerbly beyond any accuracy that was stated. I was never an Artillery Officer. You probably would be calling for a different dellivery system system, if your were not trying to suppress something other than an area target at 70 km / 42 miles. We used to have a nuclear cannon. If used to deliver a nuclear device, absolute accuracy is not that important. Not that I think that is contemplated for the M1299.

first round at what range with what system?

..would need laser guidance/etc at that extreme range ....

XM1299 Prototype 155 mm Self-Propelled Howitzer | Military-Today.com
To achieve its 70+ km range the XM1299 uses new-generation XM1113 rocket-assisted projectiles. During a demonstration this projectile reached 72 km. Furthermore these projectiles were designed to be compatible with existing M1156 precision-guided kit that has a GPS guidance. The M1156 fuse is simply screwed on conventional 155 mm projectiles and turns them into semi-guided ones.

..what is the accuracy ?

If it's laser-guided it should be very high.

The article I quoted did not state the field tested accuracy. My experience is that the U.S. Army does not like to publish data like that. It is kind of like the range of a tank round. I have made a lot of first round hits stationary and moving considerbly beyond any accuracy that was stated. I was never an Artillery Officer. You probably would be calling for a different dellivery system system, if your were not trying to suppress something other than an area target at 70 km / 42 miles. We used to have a nuclear cannon. If used to deliver a nuclear device, absolute accuracy is not that important. Not that I think that is contemplated for the M1299.

first round at what range with what system?

Not Artillary. M60A3 Tank at ranges above 4200 with a full up system, back in the early to mid 1990s. Been retired a long time. I was decent from the turret. My gunner was always better.

 

[White 6]

Who are we shooting at with this weapon?

Targets, not in combat. We were not in any tank to tank wars, during my years. Ronnie Reagan's gambles paid off.

 

[harmonica]

..would need laser guidance/etc at that extreme range ....

XM1299 Prototype 155 mm Self-Propelled Howitzer | Military-Today.com
To achieve its 70+ km range the XM1299 uses new-generation XM1113 rocket-assisted projectiles. During a demonstration this projectile reached 72 km. Furthermore these projectiles were designed to be compatible with existing M1156 precision-guided kit that has a GPS guidance. The M1156 fuse is simply screwed on conventional 155 mm projectiles and turns them into semi-guided ones.

..what is the accuracy ?

If it's laser-guided it should be very high.

...the arty fires at a high arc and then on the way down the laser takes over?
...I was with 81 mortars

 

[White 6]

..would need laser guidance/etc at that extreme range ....

XM1299 Prototype 155 mm Self-Propelled Howitzer | Military-Today.com
To achieve its 70+ km range the XM1299 uses new-generation XM1113 rocket-assisted projectiles. During a demonstration this projectile reached 72 km. Furthermore these projectiles were designed to be compatible with existing M1156 precision-guided kit that has a GPS guidance. The M1156 fuse is simply screwed on conventional 155 mm projectiles and turns them into semi-guided ones.

..what is the accuracy ?

If it's laser-guided it should be very high.

...the arty fires at a high arc and then on the way down the laser takes over?
...I was with 81 mortars

I was never Artillery, so i don't know, but I better there are real cannon cockers on this board. I have only pulled duty as Safety Officer on 155 range once or twice. There used to be something called a copperhead round that could engage tanks. I think it used infra red technology. That was a long time ago.

 

[harmonica]

..would need laser guidance/etc at that extreme range ....

XM1299 Prototype 155 mm Self-Propelled Howitzer | Military-Today.com
To achieve its 70+ km range the XM1299 uses new-generation XM1113 rocket-assisted projectiles. During a demonstration this projectile reached 72 km. Furthermore these projectiles were designed to be compatible with existing M1156 precision-guided kit that has a GPS guidance. The M1156 fuse is simply screwed on conventional 155 mm projectiles and turns them into semi-guided ones.

..what is the accuracy ?

If it's laser-guided it should be very high.

...the arty fires at a high arc and then on the way down the laser takes over?
...I was with 81 mortars

I was never Artillery, so i don't know, but I better there are real cannon cockers on this board. I have only pulled duty as Safety Officer on 155 range once or twice. There used to be something called a copperhead round that could engage tanks. I think it used infra red technology. That was a long time ago.

..I've seen and heard M60s fire --they are LOUD

 

[White 6]

XM1299 Prototype 155 mm Self-Propelled Howitzer | Military-Today.com
To achieve its 70+ km range the XM1299 uses new-generation XM1113 rocket-assisted projectiles. During a demonstration this projectile reached 72 km. Furthermore these projectiles were designed to be compatible with existing M1156 precision-guided kit that has a GPS guidance. The M1156 fuse is simply screwed on conventional 155 mm projectiles and turns them into semi-guided ones.

..what is the accuracy ?

If it's laser-guided it should be very high.

...the arty fires at a high arc and then on the way down the laser takes over?
...I was with 81 mortars

I was never Artillery, so i don't know, but I better there are real cannon cockers on this board. I have only pulled duty as Safety Officer on 155 range once or twice. There used to be something called a copperhead round that could engage tanks. I think it used infra red technology. That was a long time ago.

..I've seen and heard M60s fire --they are LOUD

I have taken my wife close enough to observe night fire wearing those old orange ear plugs. She loved it. I think she orgasmed. I married right!

 

[harmonica]

..what is the accuracy ?

If it's laser-guided it should be very high.

...the arty fires at a high arc and then on the way down the laser takes over?
...I was with 81 mortars

I was never Artillery, so i don't know, but I better there are real cannon cockers on this board. I have only pulled duty as Safety Officer on 155 range once or twice. There used to be something called a copperhead round that could engage tanks. I think it used infra red technology. That was a long time ago.

..I've seen and heard M60s fire --they are LOUD

I have taken my wife close enough to observe night fire wearing those old orange ear plugs. She loved it. I think she orgasmed. I married right!

...we saw tanks fire at night at Sardinia .....really cool

 

[White 6]

If it's laser-guided it should be very high.

...the arty fires at a high arc and then on the way down the laser takes over?
...I was with 81 mortars

I was never Artillery, so i don't know, but I better there are real cannon cockers on this board. I have only pulled duty as Safety Officer on 155 range once or twice. There used to be something called a copperhead round that could engage tanks. I think it used infra red technology. That was a long time ago.

..I've seen and heard M60s fire --they are LOUD

I have taken my wife close enough to observe night fire wearing those old orange ear plugs. She loved it. I think she orgasmed. I married right!

...we saw tanks fire at night at Sardinia .....really cool

You ought to see a mad minute night fire with 6 tanks online firing all crew served weapons. It's real wrath of God stuff! You cannot turn in opened ammo, so at the end of night fire everything goes. Amazing to see from the tower, but scary as hell. You never know when someone's going to get in too big a hurry and get somebody hurt. You couldn't drive a nail up my ass when I give the "ALL TANKS, FIRE AT WILL".

 

[SavannahMann]

We should be very, very, careful about committing to this. Remember, the Zumwalt Destroyers were lauded because of their super cannons which were also 155 MM and able to shoot 60 miles, or more, with ammunition expected to cost about $50,000 per shot. The Ammunition ended up costing $800,000 per round and was essentially canceled after the ship went into service. So we have a ship, with a gun, that they really can’t fire. The USS Zumwalt Can't Fire Its Guns Because the Ammo Is Too Expensive

The Navy says they are considering adapting the gun to the Army Rounds, which would cost a mere $68,000 per shot, which adjusted for inflation, is what they said the Zumwalt rounds would cost.

Think about that for a minute. Every time you pull the string on the cannon, you will spend more than $68,000. I say more because wear and tear on the gun is not factored in, barrels have a lifespan, and if you shoot the guns a lot, you wear out the tubes.

Now, Harmonica was right, without Laser or some other guidance method, the cannon is useless, and perhaps dangerous. Harmonica being right is painful to write by the way. But as a man who is honest, and tells the truth, I am admitting it. Harmonica is right on this one single issue.

But let’s talk about guidance. Even with Laser Guidance, there is going to be some error built in. If the round doesn’t track, because let’s be honest, these electronic components and guidance fins are going to be subjected to more than a thousand G’s when it is fired, and then further accelerated by a rocket motor after it is shot out of the tube.

So just in case the rocket motor does not fire, you can’t have any friendly troops or innocents at the point where the round would fall if the rocket doesn’t fire. Otherwise you risk Fratricide, or a bunch of dead civilians and the resulting loss of public support.

But wait, there is more to consider. If the fin is damaged, possible during firing, you’re going to have to insure that nobody is in a danger close range that is far larger than a normal 155 MM round. When I was in the Army, we had the danger close tables for the Battleships New Jersey and Missouri. If you were closer than a Kilometer from the target, you were too close. A kilometer was still danger close. Not just from the explosive effects, but if there was a slight deviation on the trajectory of the round, you could end up doing the enemies job for them by killing a lot of troops.

So you have a cannon you can’t afford to fire often, coupled with the things you’ll have to insure are not an issue before you fire, like the pathway to the target being clear, a fairly wide pathway, and an extended danger close situation where our troops would have to disengage (unlikely) before the fire could come in.

You couldn’t afford to train with the rounds, no military impact range is long enough for a max range shot. You couldn’t afford to employ them often, especially when a 500 pound bomb, a bigger warhead, cost less than half what the super artillery round does to drop. So two bigger bombs, or one relatively small but very expensive artillery round?

Or for that matter, a single squirt from the A-10’s cannon.

 

[justoffal]

We should be very, very, careful about committing to this. Remember, the Zumwalt Destroyers were lauded because of their super cannons which were also 155 MM and able to shoot 60 miles, or more, with ammunition expected to cost about $50,000 per shot. The Ammunition ended up costing $800,000 per round and was essentially canceled after the ship went into service. So we have a ship, with a gun, that they really can’t fire. The USS Zumwalt Can't Fire Its Guns Because the Ammo Is Too Expensive

The Navy says they are considering adapting the gun to the Army Rounds, which would cost a mere $68,000 per shot, which adjusted for inflation, is what they said the Zumwalt rounds would cost.

Think about that for a minute. Every time you pull the string on the cannon, you will spend more than $68,000. I say more because wear and tear on the gun is not factored in, barrels have a lifespan, and if you shoot the guns a lot, you wear out the tubes.

Now, Harmonica was right, without Laser or some other guidance method, the cannon is useless, and perhaps dangerous. Harmonica being right is painful to write by the way. But as a man who is honest, and tells the truth, I am admitting it. Harmonica is right on this one single issue.

But let’s talk about guidance. Even with Laser Guidance, there is going to be some error built in. If the round doesn’t track, because let’s be honest, these electronic components and guidance fins are going to be subjected to more than a thousand G’s when it is fired, and then further accelerated by a rocket motor after it is shot out of the tube.

So just in case the rocket motor does not fire, you can’t have any friendly troops or innocents at the point where the round would fall if the rocket doesn’t fire. Otherwise you risk Fratricide, or a bunch of dead civilians and the resulting loss of public support.

But wait, there is more to consider. If the fin is damaged, possible during firing, you’re going to have to insure that nobody is in a danger close range that is far larger than a normal 155 MM round. When I was in the Army, we had the danger close tables for the Battleships New Jersey and Missouri. If you were closer than a Kilometer from the target, you were too close. A kilometer was still danger close. Not just from the explosive effects, but if there was a slight deviation on the trajectory of the round, you could end up doing the enemies job for them by killing a lot of troops.

So you have a cannon you can’t afford to fire often, coupled with the things you’ll have to insure are not an issue before you fire, like the pathway to the target being clear, a fairly wide pathway, and an extended danger close situation where our troops would have to disengage (unlikely) before the fire could come in.

You couldn’t afford to train with the rounds, no military impact range is long enough for a max range shot. You couldn’t afford to employ them often, especially when a 500 pound bomb, a bigger warhead, cost less than half what the super artillery round does to drop. So two bigger bombs, or one relatively small but very expensive artillery round?

Or for that matter, a single squirt from the A-10’s cannon.

I still like the big guns on the Massachusetts.....maybe not long range but pack one hell of a punch when fired in the right direction and pretty much take out anything it hits.

JO