Nationalized Education Curriculum pre-k to 12th

[Pythagoras]

Federal Department of Education should be closed immediately.

What makes you say that? Is it the fact it exists or more so its performance or both? What is the best solution in your opinion?

 

[Pythagoras]

.... I think it should be more skill-based till high school and then letting high school be similar to today's college in writing and studying in-depth about advanced and specific topics....

That, more or less, is how it IS now. You need to keep in mind that there are basic level courses, honors course, AP courses and specific electives. That's how it is NOW.

Yes to some degree but in those courses you have a specific time frame to work in. SO if you're in high school mastering the basics of mathematics for 4 years you wont reach the more complex theories until college where you will struggle due to lack of interaction. The question isn't "what if we added this to our system?", it was "if it should be started earlier?". I know how the current system works first hand. I am asking, in your opinion should this be implemented earlier?

 

[flacaltenn]

What are your opinions on a nationalized education system with a completely equal Curriculum? How do you feel about schools separating students based on demonstrated knowledge (tests) vs the teacher's discretion (pass or fail)? Do you believe homework should take priority over studying/readings (of course excluding language and mathematics)? What opinions do you have on creating a harder curriculum? Finally for this thread, any opinions on removing textbooks and using pieces if not entire sections of sourcebook (instead of talking of political philosophy from a textbook include some of The Prince)?

I've never figured out how you tune or fix lagging and failing schools WITHOUT national testing. The states FUDGE their own testing numbers. The problem is -- APPARENTLY testing of any kind is "racist" and biased.. And the screams about NAEP for example are horrific.

If you're NOT gonna allow national testing -- then just DISBAND the Dept of Ed.. They have NO PURPOSE if they have no data to go on...

I dont there's time or benefit to roll in "original sources" in K-6, but for the higher grades it would advance the dialogue to do that and might rejuvenate some of the problems in teaching history and literature. Certainly NOT really advantageous for math, science because those curriculums are already tortured in "politically correct" propaganda which should be removed entirely if we don't want to lose our STEM edge in education...

That makes sense. How do you feel about the multiple intelligence theory? How do you feel about text-books in general? In standardized testing do you think there are any changes that would be more beneficial to the system? What do you think about the education gap and do you have any ideas on causation or resolves?

Funny you mention multiple intelligences theory.. I was just talking with a friend about our experience with Asberger's folks we've known.. I'm pretty convinced that what we've measured as general IQ" is a measurement of mental "flexibility and problem solving" -- NOT how awesomely they can outperform others at specific difficult mental tasks.. In the case of Asberger's, it's SPECIALIZED intelligence to fully tune into things that capture your interest. To the point of being a principle expert on that specific topic.. A lot of academic primadonnas I've known are pretty indistuishable from Asberger's patients..

Don't ask me about textbooks in general.. I'm a techo geek wizard.. To me, they are gold standard for advanced math, science, medicine, engineering.. BECAUSE -- you can have a copy of text written 55 yr ago on your shelf that BETTER COVERS and explains details you're looking for..

About a dozen times friends have asked me to tutor their kids in math. It's appalling.. They tell me that kids that could do addition/sub/mult tables in 5th grade --- are FROZEN IN FEAR of their math teachers. And I've figured out why.. Most of them are being fed textbooks that the Doctors of ED have decided INCREASE their "math agility" by showing them 5 different ways to add/sub/mult/divide.. THIS IS INSANE.. They have to go thru the "process hoops" 5 different ways to PLEASE their teachers and check off the curriculum boxes. ADD TO THAT -- the "new way" of asking kids to ESTIMATE math with varying precision and the kids are living in FEAR of being TOO PRECISE... I looked at one kids math tests where she was failing --- NOT BECAUSE SHE DIDN'T GET the correct answer -- but because she did not "estimate" to the correct precision.. Find me ONE SCIENTIST or ENGINEER who has EVER beaten themselves up over being TOO PRECISE !!!

I show them the BEST and most precise way to get the answer -- that ALWAYS WORKS -- without scrawling out a dozen boxes and rearranging them.. And tell them to focus on that. And I tell them when the teacher shows OTHER ways to do it (and waste your time) -- just play along.

So the K-12 texts in STEM have many issues. I also believe on the "liberal arts" side -- textbooks are now a tool for telling you WHAT to think and not HOW to think.. We are raising generations of kids who are helpless victims of propaganda, filtered knowledge who never learned of the "dark art" of thinking for yourself and using prior history, logic, statistics, and reason to work ACTUAL real world problems.

 

[flacaltenn]

.... I think it should be more skill-based till high school and then letting high school be similar to today's college in writing and studying in-depth about advanced and specific topics....

That, more or less, is how it IS now. You need to keep in mind that there are basic level courses, honors course, AP courses and specific electives. That's how it is NOW.

Yes to some degree but in those courses you have a specific time frame to work in. SO if you're in high school mastering the basics of mathematics for 4 years you wont reach the more complex theories until college where you will struggle due to lack of interaction. The question isn't "what if we added this to our system?", it was "if it should be started earlier?". I know how the current system works first hand. I am asking, in your opinion should this be implemented earlier?

Curriculum in ALL schools need to be maintained so EVERY student is eligible for advanced placement. Not GUARANTEED placement --- but the CHANCE of qualifying.. If you do not maintain that trajectory from Kindergarten -- you're gonna fail to offer that chance.. Educators have given up on expectations. Fudged their local/state testing to be judged "adequate". Summer sessions, community not for profit tutoring, virtual learning, PUBLIC "academies" and school choice are the KEYS to getting this back on track...

 

[flacaltenn]

... I am not saying we must remove teaching history in a grand scheme I am asking if more direct sources could be more beneficial.

As I said before, the more advanced level courses use more primary sources.

Do you think it should be more common even in lower-level courses just to adjust people better when writing in the future, just out of curiosity?

Would be useless in K-6.. Teaching critical thinking starts with CONCRETE KNOWLEDGE.. Just because "concrete knowledge" is now political -- we cant afford to ditch it.. Even in the arts -- learn more about the ART and less interesting factoids about the social class or personal challenges of the historic artists. THAT needs to come AFTER you learn what "art is" and the various disciplines and techniques that are the BASELINE for creating it..

 

[Pythagoras]

... I am not saying we must remove teaching history in a grand scheme I am asking if more direct sources could be more beneficial.

As I said before, the more advanced level courses use more primary sources.

Do you think it should be more common even in lower-level courses just to adjust people better when writing in the future, just out of curiosity?

Would be useless in K-6.. Teaching critical thinking starts with CONCRETE KNOWLEDGE.. Just because "concrete knowledge" is now political -- we cant afford to ditch it.. Even in the arts -- learn more about the ART and less interesting factoids about the social class or personal challenges of the historic artists. THAT needs to come AFTER you learn what "art is" and the various disciplines and techniques that are the BASELINE for creating it..

I was unaware that "concrete knowledge" has now been fitted into some rhetoric. I am genuinely curious how has it been politicized? It may very well be unfit through k-6. What do you believe to be a way to improve that area? Do you believe k-6 needs improvement?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Federal Department of Education should be closed immediately.

There is no such thing. Try again!

 

[Pythagoras]

What are your opinions on a nationalized education system with a completely equal Curriculum? How do you feel about schools separating students based on demonstrated knowledge (tests) vs the teacher's discretion (pass or fail)? Do you believe homework should take priority over studying/readings (of course excluding language and mathematics)? What opinions do you have on creating a harder curriculum? Finally for this thread, any opinions on removing textbooks and using pieces if not entire sections of sourcebook (instead of talking of political philosophy from a textbook include some of The Prince)?

I've never figured out how you tune or fix lagging and failing schools WITHOUT national testing. The states FUDGE their own testing numbers. The problem is -- APPARENTLY testing of any kind is "racist" and biased.. And the screams about NAEP for example are horrific.

If you're NOT gonna allow national testing -- then just DISBAND the Dept of Ed.. They have NO PURPOSE if they have no data to go on...

I dont there's time or benefit to roll in "original sources" in K-6, but for the higher grades it would advance the dialogue to do that and might rejuvenate some of the problems in teaching history and literature. Certainly NOT really advantageous for math, science because those curriculums are already tortured in "politically correct" propaganda which should be removed entirely if we don't want to lose our STEM edge in education...

That makes sense. How do you feel about the multiple intelligence theory? How do you feel about text-books in general? In standardized testing do you think there are any changes that would be more beneficial to the system? What do you think about the education gap and do you have any ideas on causation or resolves?

Funny you mention multiple intelligences theory.. I was just talking with a friend about our experience with Asberger's folks we've known.. I'm pretty convinced that what we've measured as general IQ" is a measurement of mental "flexibility and problem solving" -- NOT how awesomely they can outperform others at specific difficult mental tasks.. In the case of Asberger's, it's SPECIALIZED intelligence to fully tune into things that capture your interest. To the point of being a principle expert on that specific topic.. A lot of academic primadonnas I've known are pretty indistuishable from Asberger's patients..

Don't ask me about textbooks in general.. I'm a techo geek wizard.. To me, they are gold standard for advanced math, science, medicine, engineering.. BECAUSE -- you can have a copy of text written 55 yr ago on your shelf that BETTER COVERS and explains details you're looking for..

About a dozen times friends have asked me to tutor their kids in math. It's appalling.. They tell me that kids that could do addition/sub/mult tables in 5th grade --- are FROZEN IN FEAR of their math teachers. And I've figured out why.. Most of them are being fed textbooks that the Doctors of ED have decided INCREASE their "math agility" by showing them 5 different ways to add/sub/mult/divide.. THIS IS INSANE.. They have to go thru the "process hoops" 5 different ways to PLEASE their teachers and check off the curriculum boxes. ADD TO THAT -- the "new way" of asking kids to ESTIMATE math with varying precision and the kids are living in FEAR of being TOO PRECISE... I looked at one kids math tests where she was failing --- NOT BECAUSE SHE DIDN'T GET the correct answer -- but because she did not "estimate" to the correct precision.. Find me ONE SCIENTIST or ENGINEER who has EVER beaten themselves up over being TOO PRECISE !!!

I show them the BEST and most precise way to get the answer -- that ALWAYS WORKS -- without scrawling out a dozen boxes and rearranging them.. And tell them to focus on that. And I tell them when the teacher shows OTHER ways to do it (and waste your time) -- just play along.

So the K-12 texts in STEM have many issues. I also believe on the "liberal arts" side -- textbooks are now a tool for telling you WHAT to think and not HOW to think.. We are raising generations of kids who are helpless victims of propaganda, filtered knowledge who never learned of the "dark art" of thinking for yourself and using prior history, logic, statistics, and reason to work ACTUAL real world problems.

I agree with that completely and totally. When in high school I actually had those issues in mathematics so it is quite intriguing that you put it so perfectly. How do you personally think we could stop this fear? It is a very very hard thing to fix especially with the generations that have been used to test these techniques. I am curious and you happen to have a very enlightened view on the subject. Do you have any theories on how to fix the issues at hand with these fears? I agree, a lot of teaching in my experience at least in high school with the exceptions of some unorthodox and great teachers. Any ideas on how we can move back to a how-to and not a what-to attitude? I don't want to make it seem as though you have to have these answers on lock either it is a hard thing to solve just want your opinions.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

.... I think it should be more skill-based till high school and then letting high school be similar to today's college in writing and studying in-depth about advanced and specific topics....

That, more or less, is how it IS now. You need to keep in mind that there are basic level courses, honors course, AP courses and specific electives. That's how it is NOW.

Yes to some degree but in those courses you have a specific time frame to work in. SO if you're in high school mastering the basics of mathematics for 4 years you wont reach the more complex theories until college where you will struggle due to lack of interaction. The question isn't "what if we added this to our system?", it was "if it should be started earlier?". I know how the current system works first hand. I am asking, in your opinion should this be implemented earlier?

Curriculum in ALL schools need to be maintained so EVERY student is eligible for advanced placement. Not GUARANTEED placement --- but the CHANCE of qualifying.. If you do not maintain that trajectory from Kindergarten -- you're gonna fail to offer that chance.. Educators have given up on expectations. Fudged their local/state testing to be judged "adequate". Summer sessions, community not for profit tutoring, virtual learning, PUBLIC "academies" and school choice are the KEYS to getting this back on track...

The public refuses to fund those programs.

 

[flacaltenn]

I agree with that completely and totally. When in high school I actually had those issues in mathematics so it is quite intriguing that you put it so perfectly. How do you personally think we could stop this fear?

It very simple and NOT hard to fix.. Get 25 of America's top STEM Professional Societies to write an "open letter" to the academic eggheads in the Ed Depts of colleges --- SCOLDING THEM for making math intimidating. Tell them to teach the one way that always works PRECISELY first. And drop this insane clatter about 5 different ways to think about multiplication or finding the "roots" of equations" in Algebra. AT LEAST until the kids are SOLID in mastering it.. Reserve the freaking "tricks and tips" for tutoring sessions for students that NEED visual aids and crutches..

It's how academics on the lib arts screw up perfectly good basic knowledge all the time. By "over teaching" it...

It's no wonder you cant get EVERY kid thru Trig and Algebra 1 wasting time and making kids fear math... We might also get around the "math is racist" argument -- if black kids got some tutorials is defending themselves against folks that ABUSE statistics. And statistics are abused daily everywhere. This is not EVEN math.. In the 21st century with a totally dysfunctional media -- THIS IS A SURVIVAL TOOL...

But you'll never get there spending so much redundant time to confuse kids on how to do the ESSENTIALS of math..

 

[Pythagoras]

.... I think it should be more skill-based till high school and then letting high school be similar to today's college in writing and studying in-depth about advanced and specific topics....

That, more or less, is how it IS now. You need to keep in mind that there are basic level courses, honors course, AP courses and specific electives. That's how it is NOW.

Yes to some degree but in those courses you have a specific time frame to work in. SO if you're in high school mastering the basics of mathematics for 4 years you wont reach the more complex theories until college where you will struggle due to lack of interaction. The question isn't "what if we added this to our system?", it was "if it should be started earlier?". I know how the current system works first hand. I am asking, in your opinion should this be implemented earlier?

Curriculum in ALL schools need to be maintained so EVERY student is eligible for advanced placement. Not GUARANTEED placement --- but the CHANCE of qualifying.. If you do not maintain that trajectory from Kindergarten -- you're gonna fail to offer that chance.. Educators have given up on expectations. Fudged their local/state testing to be judged "adequate". Summer sessions, community not for profit tutoring, virtual learning, PUBLIC "academies" and school choice are the KEYS to getting this back on track...

The public refuses to fund those programs.

Why do you personally think they won't fund them? (lack of desire/fear/etc.) These programs are definitely needed and keeping students where they can get into advanced placement is important. ( in my opinion) Do you share that same view?

 

[Pythagoras]

I agree with that completely and totally. When in high school I actually had those issues in mathematics so it is quite intriguing that you put it so perfectly. How do you personally think we could stop this fear?

It very simple and NOT hard to fix.. Get 25 of America's top STEM Professional Societies to write an "open letter" to the academic eggheads in the Ed Depts of colleges --- SCOLDING THEM for making math intimidating. Tell them to teach the one way that always works PRECISELY first. And drop this insane clatter about 5 different ways to think about multiplication or finding the "roots" of equations" in Algebra. AT LEAST until the kids are SOLID in mastering it.. Reserve the freaking "tricks and tips" for tutoring sessions for students that NEED visual aids and crutches..

It's how academics on the lib arts screw up perfectly good basic knowledge all the time. By "over teaching" it...

It's no wonder you cant get EVERY kid thru Trig and Algebra 1 wasting time and making kids fear math... We might also get around the "math is racist" argument -- if black kids got some tutorials is defending themselves against folks that ABUSE statistics. And statistics are abused daily everywhere. This is not EVEN math.. In the 21st century with a totally dysfunctional media -- THIS IS A SURVIVAL TOOL...

But you'll never get there spending so much redundant time to confuse kids on how to do the ESSENTIALS of math..

Do you think it would be possible to get individuals to write to change the math curriculum to teach math correctly? I don't know many math-oriented people due to my difficulty with it I dove into history. Do you believe there is enough resolve in people to be willing to fix this?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I agree with that completely and totally. When in high school I actually had those issues in mathematics so it is quite intriguing that you put it so perfectly. How do you personally think we could stop this fear?

It very simple and NOT hard to fix.. Get 25 of America's top STEM Professional Societies to write an "open letter" to the academic eggheads in the Ed Depts of colleges --- SCOLDING THEM for making math intimidating. Tell them to teach the one way that always works PRECISELY first. And drop this insane clatter about 5 different ways to think about multiplication or finding the "roots" of equations" in Algebra. AT LEAST until the kids are SOLID in mastering it.. Reserve the freaking "tricks and tips" for tutoring sessions for students that NEED visual aids and crutches..

It's how academics on the lib arts screw up perfectly good basic knowledge all the time. By "over teaching" it...

It's no wonder you cant get EVERY kid thru Trig and Algebra 1 wasting time and making kids fear math... We might also get around the "math is racist" argument -- if black kids got some tutorials is defending themselves against folks that ABUSE statistics. And statistics are abused daily everywhere. This is not EVEN math.. In the 21st century with a totally dysfunctional media -- THIS IS A SURVIVAL TOOL...

But you'll never get there spending so much redundant time to confuse kids on how to do the ESSENTIALS of math..

Why do you think math is intimidating?

I taught high school math for 21 years and NEVER had a student be intimidated. I never knew a college student to be intimidated by math. I think you are imagining things!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I agree with that completely and totally. When in high school I actually had those issues in mathematics so it is quite intriguing that you put it so perfectly. How do you personally think we could stop this fear?

It very simple and NOT hard to fix.. Get 25 of America's top STEM Professional Societies to write an "open letter" to the academic eggheads in the Ed Depts of colleges --- SCOLDING THEM for making math intimidating. Tell them to teach the one way that always works PRECISELY first. And drop this insane clatter about 5 different ways to think about multiplication or finding the "roots" of equations" in Algebra. AT LEAST until the kids are SOLID in mastering it.. Reserve the freaking "tricks and tips" for tutoring sessions for students that NEED visual aids and crutches..

It's how academics on the lib arts screw up perfectly good basic knowledge all the time. By "over teaching" it...

It's no wonder you cant get EVERY kid thru Trig and Algebra 1 wasting time and making kids fear math... We might also get around the "math is racist" argument -- if black kids got some tutorials is defending themselves against folks that ABUSE statistics. And statistics are abused daily everywhere. This is not EVEN math.. In the 21st century with a totally dysfunctional media -- THIS IS A SURVIVAL TOOL...

But you'll never get there spending so much redundant time to confuse kids on how to do the ESSENTIALS of math..

Do you think it would be possible to get individuals to write to change the math curriculum to teach math correctly? I don't know many math-oriented people due to my difficulty with it I dove into history. Do you believe there is enough resolve in people to be willing to fix this?

How do you know math is being taught incorrectly? What exactly do you find incorrect?

 

[Pythagoras]

I agree with that completely and totally. When in high school I actually had those issues in mathematics so it is quite intriguing that you put it so perfectly. How do you personally think we could stop this fear?

It very simple and NOT hard to fix.. Get 25 of America's top STEM Professional Societies to write an "open letter" to the academic eggheads in the Ed Depts of colleges --- SCOLDING THEM for making math intimidating. Tell them to teach the one way that always works PRECISELY first. And drop this insane clatter about 5 different ways to think about multiplication or finding the "roots" of equations" in Algebra. AT LEAST until the kids are SOLID in mastering it.. Reserve the freaking "tricks and tips" for tutoring sessions for students that NEED visual aids and crutches..

It's how academics on the lib arts screw up perfectly good basic knowledge all the time. By "over teaching" it...

It's no wonder you cant get EVERY kid thru Trig and Algebra 1 wasting time and making kids fear math... We might also get around the "math is racist" argument -- if black kids got some tutorials is defending themselves against folks that ABUSE statistics. And statistics are abused daily everywhere. This is not EVEN math.. In the 21st century with a totally dysfunctional media -- THIS IS A SURVIVAL TOOL...

But you'll never get there spending so much redundant time to confuse kids on how to do the ESSENTIALS of math..

Why do you think math is intimidating?

I taught high school math for 21 years and NEVER had a student be intimidated. I never knew a college student to be intimidated by math. I think you are imagining things!

With my personal experience, I had 2 years 7-8 grade where my teacher cried every other day and yelled at students by the end of the week if we didn't plot the 12 pages of point plotting and colored them. Most of us did them but when we asked why it was all we did she would get angry. After that, I struggled along with most of my classmates to grasp algebra and other forms of basic mathematics. Now if I do something and learn it I can repeat the solution but then I had to perform the same problem with 3 separate methods on different sections and I started getting lost. I don't have the best memory so I got better with notes and writing equations due to the multiple methods. I needed but when I had to apply 8 different solutions to solve some forms of algebra or even geometry. (it isn't as bad but still occurring) You could easily say I just suck at math and be done with it and that could very well be true but the fear factor and overteaching is something I experienced frequently. That is my experience with math, I have no doubt you were a great teacher but when the stuff like I said occurs it messes up the subject entirely. My girlfriend who had a similar issue gave up her dream to be a biologist because she feels she's not good enough at math even though she passes every course.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I agree with that completely and totally. When in high school I actually had those issues in mathematics so it is quite intriguing that you put it so perfectly. How do you personally think we could stop this fear?

It very simple and NOT hard to fix.. Get 25 of America's top STEM Professional Societies to write an "open letter" to the academic eggheads in the Ed Depts of colleges --- SCOLDING THEM for making math intimidating. Tell them to teach the one way that always works PRECISELY first. And drop this insane clatter about 5 different ways to think about multiplication or finding the "roots" of equations" in Algebra. AT LEAST until the kids are SOLID in mastering it.. Reserve the freaking "tricks and tips" for tutoring sessions for students that NEED visual aids and crutches..

It's how academics on the lib arts screw up perfectly good basic knowledge all the time. By "over teaching" it...

It's no wonder you cant get EVERY kid thru Trig and Algebra 1 wasting time and making kids fear math... We might also get around the "math is racist" argument -- if black kids got some tutorials is defending themselves against folks that ABUSE statistics. And statistics are abused daily everywhere. This is not EVEN math.. In the 21st century with a totally dysfunctional media -- THIS IS A SURVIVAL TOOL...

But you'll never get there spending so much redundant time to confuse kids on how to do the ESSENTIALS of math..

Why do you think math is intimidating?

I taught high school math for 21 years and NEVER had a student be intimidated. I never knew a college student to be intimidated by math. I think you are imagining things!

With my personal experience, I had 2 years 7-8 grade where my teacher cried every other day and yelled at students by the end of the week if we didn't plot the 12 pages of point plotting and colored them. Most of us did them but when we asked why it was all we did she would get angry. After that, I struggled along with most of my classmates to grasp algebra and other forms of basic mathematics. Now if I do something and learn it I can repeat the solution but then I had to perform the same problem with 3 separate methods on different sections and I started getting lost. I don't have the best memory so I got better with notes and writing equations due to the multiple methods. I needed but when I had to apply 8 different solutions to solve some forms of algebra or even geometry. (it isn't as bad but still occurring) You could easily say I just suck at math and be done with it and that could very well be true but the fear factor and overteaching is something I experienced frequently. That is my experience with math, I have no doubt you were a great teacher but when the stuff like I said occurs it messes up the subject entirely. My girlfriend who had a similar issue gave up her dream to be a biologist because she feels she's not good enough at math even though she passes every course.

In other words, you are a dumbass! There are no 8 different solutions in algebra. I taught it for 21 years. Your self-confidence is the issue, as well as your girlfriend's. There are no excuses why you cannot learn math. You are providing planty you have made up to placate your ego and shift the blame for your poor math skills.

 

[Pythagoras]

I agree with that completely and totally. When in high school I actually had those issues in mathematics so it is quite intriguing that you put it so perfectly. How do you personally think we could stop this fear?

It very simple and NOT hard to fix.. Get 25 of America's top STEM Professional Societies to write an "open letter" to the academic eggheads in the Ed Depts of colleges --- SCOLDING THEM for making math intimidating. Tell them to teach the one way that always works PRECISELY first. And drop this insane clatter about 5 different ways to think about multiplication or finding the "roots" of equations" in Algebra. AT LEAST until the kids are SOLID in mastering it.. Reserve the freaking "tricks and tips" for tutoring sessions for students that NEED visual aids and crutches..

It's how academics on the lib arts screw up perfectly good basic knowledge all the time. By "over teaching" it...

It's no wonder you cant get EVERY kid thru Trig and Algebra 1 wasting time and making kids fear math... We might also get around the "math is racist" argument -- if black kids got some tutorials is defending themselves against folks that ABUSE statistics. And statistics are abused daily everywhere. This is not EVEN math.. In the 21st century with a totally dysfunctional media -- THIS IS A SURVIVAL TOOL...

But you'll never get there spending so much redundant time to confuse kids on how to do the ESSENTIALS of math..

Do you think it would be possible to get individuals to write to change the math curriculum to teach math correctly? I don't know many math-oriented people due to my difficulty with it I dove into history. Do you believe there is enough resolve in people to be willing to fix this?

How do you know math is being taught incorrectly? What exactly do you find incorrect?

In my use of the word, I was referring to the previous explanation where it was the best way to get an answer instead of doing tricks like in a pet show. (not word for word)

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I agree with that completely and totally. When in high school I actually had those issues in mathematics so it is quite intriguing that you put it so perfectly. How do you personally think we could stop this fear?

It very simple and NOT hard to fix.. Get 25 of America's top STEM Professional Societies to write an "open letter" to the academic eggheads in the Ed Depts of colleges --- SCOLDING THEM for making math intimidating. Tell them to teach the one way that always works PRECISELY first. And drop this insane clatter about 5 different ways to think about multiplication or finding the "roots" of equations" in Algebra. AT LEAST until the kids are SOLID in mastering it.. Reserve the freaking "tricks and tips" for tutoring sessions for students that NEED visual aids and crutches..

It's how academics on the lib arts screw up perfectly good basic knowledge all the time. By "over teaching" it...

It's no wonder you cant get EVERY kid thru Trig and Algebra 1 wasting time and making kids fear math... We might also get around the "math is racist" argument -- if black kids got some tutorials is defending themselves against folks that ABUSE statistics. And statistics are abused daily everywhere. This is not EVEN math.. In the 21st century with a totally dysfunctional media -- THIS IS A SURVIVAL TOOL...

But you'll never get there spending so much redundant time to confuse kids on how to do the ESSENTIALS of math..

Do you think it would be possible to get individuals to write to change the math curriculum to teach math correctly? I don't know many math-oriented people due to my difficulty with it I dove into history. Do you believe there is enough resolve in people to be willing to fix this?

How do you know math is being taught incorrectly? What exactly do you find incorrect?

In my use of the word, I was referring to the previous explanation where it was the best way to get an answer instead of doing tricks like in a pet show. (not word for word)

You still are making excuses. Pathetic!

Ask the mods for a username change. If you sucked at math, you should not use "Pythagoras" as a crutch for you ineptness.

 

[Pythagoras]

I agree with that completely and totally. When in high school I actually had those issues in mathematics so it is quite intriguing that you put it so perfectly. How do you personally think we could stop this fear?

It very simple and NOT hard to fix.. Get 25 of America's top STEM Professional Societies to write an "open letter" to the academic eggheads in the Ed Depts of colleges --- SCOLDING THEM for making math intimidating. Tell them to teach the one way that always works PRECISELY first. And drop this insane clatter about 5 different ways to think about multiplication or finding the "roots" of equations" in Algebra. AT LEAST until the kids are SOLID in mastering it.. Reserve the freaking "tricks and tips" for tutoring sessions for students that NEED visual aids and crutches..

It's how academics on the lib arts screw up perfectly good basic knowledge all the time. By "over teaching" it...

It's no wonder you cant get EVERY kid thru Trig and Algebra 1 wasting time and making kids fear math... We might also get around the "math is racist" argument -- if black kids got some tutorials is defending themselves against folks that ABUSE statistics. And statistics are abused daily everywhere. This is not EVEN math.. In the 21st century with a totally dysfunctional media -- THIS IS A SURVIVAL TOOL...

But you'll never get there spending so much redundant time to confuse kids on how to do the ESSENTIALS of math..

Why do you think math is intimidating?

I taught high school math for 21 years and NEVER had a student be intimidated. I never knew a college student to be intimidated by math. I think you are imagining things!

With my personal experience, I had 2 years 7-8 grade where my teacher cried every other day and yelled at students by the end of the week if we didn't plot the 12 pages of point plotting and colored them. Most of us did them but when we asked why it was all we did she would get angry. After that, I struggled along with most of my classmates to grasp algebra and other forms of basic mathematics. Now if I do something and learn it I can repeat the solution but then I had to perform the same problem with 3 separate methods on different sections and I started getting lost. I don't have the best memory so I got better with notes and writing equations due to the multiple methods. I needed but when I had to apply 8 different solutions to solve some forms of algebra or even geometry. (it isn't as bad but still occurring) You could easily say I just suck at math and be done with it and that could very well be true but the fear factor and overteaching is something I experienced frequently. That is my experience with math, I have no doubt you were a great teacher but when the stuff like I said occurs it messes up the subject entirely. My girlfriend who had a similar issue gave up her dream to be a biologist because she feels she's not good enough at math even though she passes every course.

In other words, you are a dumbass! There are no 8 different solutions in algebra. I taught it for 21 years. Your self-confidence is the issue, as well as your girlfriend's. There are no excuses why you cannot learn math. You are providing planty you have made up to placate your ego and shift the blame for your poor math skills.

I wouldn't go that far but hey someone has to. I am not talking about an inability to learn just a difficulty with it. You cant get into the world without math skills of some sort of course I had to do it like anyone else. The difference is I am not good at it. This isn't about an inability it is about a fear that goes with it. I am telling you of an experience that caused anxiety in that field. I had a wonderful teacher who helped me later on. If my ego meant so much I wouldn't have shared a once complication. However, if that is what you got out of that fine. I"ve found my place and I am fine currently but that doesn't make the issues others had, go away. While you can say there aren't 8 different ways to do algebra that is exactly what we are being taught or at least what we had been taught in high school.

 

[flacaltenn]

I agree with that completely and totally. When in high school I actually had those issues in mathematics so it is quite intriguing that you put it so perfectly. How do you personally think we could stop this fear?

It very simple and NOT hard to fix.. Get 25 of America's top STEM Professional Societies to write an "open letter" to the academic eggheads in the Ed Depts of colleges --- SCOLDING THEM for making math intimidating. Tell them to teach the one way that always works PRECISELY first. And drop this insane clatter about 5 different ways to think about multiplication or finding the "roots" of equations" in Algebra. AT LEAST until the kids are SOLID in mastering it.. Reserve the freaking "tricks and tips" for tutoring sessions for students that NEED visual aids and crutches..

It's how academics on the lib arts screw up perfectly good basic knowledge all the time. By "over teaching" it...

It's no wonder you cant get EVERY kid thru Trig and Algebra 1 wasting time and making kids fear math... We might also get around the "math is racist" argument -- if black kids got some tutorials is defending themselves against folks that ABUSE statistics. And statistics are abused daily everywhere. This is not EVEN math.. In the 21st century with a totally dysfunctional media -- THIS IS A SURVIVAL TOOL...

But you'll never get there spending so much redundant time to confuse kids on how to do the ESSENTIALS of math..

Why do you think math is intimidating?

I taught high school math for 21 years and NEVER had a student be intimidated. I never knew a college student to be intimidated by math. I think you are imagining things!

With my personal experience, I had 2 years 7-8 grade where my teacher cried every other day and yelled at students by the end of the week if we didn't plot the 12 pages of point plotting and colored them. Most of us did them but when we asked why it was all we did she would get angry. After that, I struggled along with most of my classmates to grasp algebra and other forms of basic mathematics. Now if I do something and learn it I can repeat the solution but then I had to perform the same problem with 3 separate methods on different sections and I started getting lost. I don't have the best memory so I got better with notes and writing equations due to the multiple methods. I needed but when I had to apply 8 different solutions to solve some forms of algebra or even geometry. (it isn't as bad but still occurring) You could easily say I just suck at math and be done with it and that could very well be true but the fear factor and overteaching is something I experienced frequently. That is my experience with math, I have no doubt you were a great teacher but when the stuff like I said occurs it messes up the subject entirely. My girlfriend who had a similar issue gave up her dream to be a biologist because she feels she's not good enough at math even though she passes every course.

In other words, you are a dumbass! There are no 8 different solutions in algebra. I taught it for 21 years. Your self-confidence is the issue, as well as your girlfriend's. There are no excuses why you cannot learn math. You are providing planty you have made up to placate your ego and shift the blame for your poor math skills.

No.. NOT a dumbass. I've seen successful students bullied into submission over learning 4 ways to add or multiply.. I outlined it above.. Successfully tutored about 10 of them out of the FEAR that these methods instill in kids.. It NEEDS to be called out by the highest levels of the Engineering and Science professional orgs before we DESTROY STEM education in this country over primadonnas in college ED depts wasting class time teaching "smoke and mirror" methods for math basics.. There is always the BEST and most accurate way.. That had always been the focus up to 20 years ago and math performance has been falling like a rock since..