Nationalized Education Curriculum pre-k to 12th

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I agree with that completely and totally. When in high school I actually had those issues in mathematics so it is quite intriguing that you put it so perfectly. How do you personally think we could stop this fear?

It very simple and NOT hard to fix.. Get 25 of America's top STEM Professional Societies to write an "open letter" to the academic eggheads in the Ed Depts of colleges --- SCOLDING THEM for making math intimidating. Tell them to teach the one way that always works PRECISELY first. And drop this insane clatter about 5 different ways to think about multiplication or finding the "roots" of equations" in Algebra. AT LEAST until the kids are SOLID in mastering it.. Reserve the freaking "tricks and tips" for tutoring sessions for students that NEED visual aids and crutches..

It's how academics on the lib arts screw up perfectly good basic knowledge all the time. By "over teaching" it...

It's no wonder you cant get EVERY kid thru Trig and Algebra 1 wasting time and making kids fear math... We might also get around the "math is racist" argument -- if black kids got some tutorials is defending themselves against folks that ABUSE statistics. And statistics are abused daily everywhere. This is not EVEN math.. In the 21st century with a totally dysfunctional media -- THIS IS A SURVIVAL TOOL...

But you'll never get there spending so much redundant time to confuse kids on how to do the ESSENTIALS of math..

Why do you think math is intimidating?

I taught high school math for 21 years and NEVER had a student be intimidated. I never knew a college student to be intimidated by math. I think you are imagining things!

With my personal experience, I had 2 years 7-8 grade where my teacher cried every other day and yelled at students by the end of the week if we didn't plot the 12 pages of point plotting and colored them. Most of us did them but when we asked why it was all we did she would get angry. After that, I struggled along with most of my classmates to grasp algebra and other forms of basic mathematics. Now if I do something and learn it I can repeat the solution but then I had to perform the same problem with 3 separate methods on different sections and I started getting lost. I don't have the best memory so I got better with notes and writing equations due to the multiple methods. I needed but when I had to apply 8 different solutions to solve some forms of algebra or even geometry. (it isn't as bad but still occurring) You could easily say I just suck at math and be done with it and that could very well be true but the fear factor and overteaching is something I experienced frequently. That is my experience with math, I have no doubt you were a great teacher but when the stuff like I said occurs it messes up the subject entirely. My girlfriend who had a similar issue gave up her dream to be a biologist because she feels she's not good enough at math even though she passes every course.

In other words, you are a dumbass! There are no 8 different solutions in algebra. I taught it for 21 years. Your self-confidence is the issue, as well as your girlfriend's. There are no excuses why you cannot learn math. You are providing planty you have made up to placate your ego and shift the blame for your poor math skills.

I wouldn't go that far but hey someone has to. I am not talking about an inability to learn just a difficulty with it. You cant get into the world without math skills of some sort of course I had to do it like anyone else. The difference is I am not good at it. This isn't about an inability it is about a fear that goes with it. I am telling you of an experience that caused anxiety in that field. I had a wonderful teacher who helped me later on. If my ego meant so much I wouldn't have shared a once complication. However, if that is what you got out of that fine. I"ve found my place and I am fine currently but that doesn't make the issues others had, go away. While you can say there aren't 8 different ways to do algebra that is exactly what we are being taught or at least what we had been taught in high school.

Bullshit! Stop pissing on my leg and telling me it is raining! You are making shit up, plain and simple.

 

[OldLady]

I agree with that completely and totally. When in high school I actually had those issues in mathematics so it is quite intriguing that you put it so perfectly. How do you personally think we could stop this fear?

It very simple and NOT hard to fix.. Get 25 of America's top STEM Professional Societies to write an "open letter" to the academic eggheads in the Ed Depts of colleges --- SCOLDING THEM for making math intimidating. Tell them to teach the one way that always works PRECISELY first. And drop this insane clatter about 5 different ways to think about multiplication or finding the "roots" of equations" in Algebra. AT LEAST until the kids are SOLID in mastering it.. Reserve the freaking "tricks and tips" for tutoring sessions for students that NEED visual aids and crutches..

It's how academics on the lib arts screw up perfectly good basic knowledge all the time. By "over teaching" it...

It's no wonder you cant get EVERY kid thru Trig and Algebra 1 wasting time and making kids fear math... We might also get around the "math is racist" argument -- if black kids got some tutorials is defending themselves against folks that ABUSE statistics. And statistics are abused daily everywhere. This is not EVEN math.. In the 21st century with a totally dysfunctional media -- THIS IS A SURVIVAL TOOL...

But you'll never get there spending so much redundant time to confuse kids on how to do the ESSENTIALS of math..

Do you think it would be possible to get individuals to write to change the math curriculum to teach math correctly? I don't know many math-oriented people due to my difficulty with it I dove into history. Do you believe there is enough resolve in people to be willing to fix this?

How do you know math is being taught incorrectly? What exactly do you find incorrect?

In my use of the word, I was referring to the previous explanation where it was the best way to get an answer instead of doing tricks like in a pet show. (not word for word)

You're just starting out as an ed major, aren't you? A lot of this will jell for you when you start teaching and, depending on what tools you have available, can provide to your students. Everything you've talked about ( except the math gripes) is well known practice in education and has been around for years, so you'll keep hearing about it in trainings on developing rigor and critical thinking skills, utilizing different techniques to reach all your students' learning styles, giving opportunities for their various gifts a chance to shine.

But you will also hear from old school folks who want kids to be taught the same things in the same way they were. It will depend on your community, your administrators and even your students--they also have expectations and they get set in their ways as well.

I wish you well. It's a great and challenging, interesting and energizing field.

 

[flacaltenn]

I agree with that completely and totally. When in high school I actually had those issues in mathematics so it is quite intriguing that you put it so perfectly. How do you personally think we could stop this fear?

It very simple and NOT hard to fix.. Get 25 of America's top STEM Professional Societies to write an "open letter" to the academic eggheads in the Ed Depts of colleges --- SCOLDING THEM for making math intimidating. Tell them to teach the one way that always works PRECISELY first. And drop this insane clatter about 5 different ways to think about multiplication or finding the "roots" of equations" in Algebra. AT LEAST until the kids are SOLID in mastering it.. Reserve the freaking "tricks and tips" for tutoring sessions for students that NEED visual aids and crutches..

It's how academics on the lib arts screw up perfectly good basic knowledge all the time. By "over teaching" it...

It's no wonder you cant get EVERY kid thru Trig and Algebra 1 wasting time and making kids fear math... We might also get around the "math is racist" argument -- if black kids got some tutorials is defending themselves against folks that ABUSE statistics. And statistics are abused daily everywhere. This is not EVEN math.. In the 21st century with a totally dysfunctional media -- THIS IS A SURVIVAL TOOL...

But you'll never get there spending so much redundant time to confuse kids on how to do the ESSENTIALS of math..

Why do you think math is intimidating?

I taught high school math for 21 years and NEVER had a student be intimidated. I never knew a college student to be intimidated by math. I think you are imagining things!

With my personal experience, I had 2 years 7-8 grade where my teacher cried every other day and yelled at students by the end of the week if we didn't plot the 12 pages of point plotting and colored them. Most of us did them but when we asked why it was all we did she would get angry. After that, I struggled along with most of my classmates to grasp algebra and other forms of basic mathematics. Now if I do something and learn it I can repeat the solution but then I had to perform the same problem with 3 separate methods on different sections and I started getting lost. I don't have the best memory so I got better with notes and writing equations due to the multiple methods. I needed but when I had to apply 8 different solutions to solve some forms of algebra or even geometry. (it isn't as bad but still occurring) You could easily say I just suck at math and be done with it and that could very well be true but the fear factor and overteaching is something I experienced frequently. That is my experience with math, I have no doubt you were a great teacher but when the stuff like I said occurs it messes up the subject entirely. My girlfriend who had a similar issue gave up her dream to be a biologist because she feels she's not good enough at math even though she passes every course.

In other words, you are a dumbass! There are no 8 different solutions in algebra. I taught it for 21 years. Your self-confidence is the issue, as well as your girlfriend's. There are no excuses why you cannot learn math. You are providing planty you have made up to placate your ego and shift the blame for your poor math skills.

I wouldn't go that far but hey someone has to. I am not talking about an inability to learn just a difficulty with it. You cant get into the world without math skills of some sort of course I had to do it like anyone else. The difference is I am not good at it. This isn't about an inability it is about a fear that goes with it. I am telling you of an experience that caused anxiety in that field. I had a wonderful teacher who helped me later on. If my ego meant so much I wouldn't have shared a once complication. However, if that is what you got out of that fine. I"ve found my place and I am fine currently but that doesn't make the issues others had, go away. While you can say there aren't 8 different ways to do algebra that is exactly what we are being taught or at least what we had been taught in high school.

Bullshit! Stop pissing on my leg and telling me it is raining! You are making shit up, plain and simple.

Not at all -- you're a teacher right? Go pull a math textbook for 4th or 5th grade math...

In fact while you're pulling that textbook -- get some education here...

What Are Different Ways to Multiply? - Video & Lesson Transcript | Study.com

Go look at how PREVALENT this "math torture" is....

I NEVER "make up shit"... And if your leg is wet -- get Depends...

 

[Pythagoras]

I agree with that completely and totally. When in high school I actually had those issues in mathematics so it is quite intriguing that you put it so perfectly. How do you personally think we could stop this fear?

It very simple and NOT hard to fix.. Get 25 of America's top STEM Professional Societies to write an "open letter" to the academic eggheads in the Ed Depts of colleges --- SCOLDING THEM for making math intimidating. Tell them to teach the one way that always works PRECISELY first. And drop this insane clatter about 5 different ways to think about multiplication or finding the "roots" of equations" in Algebra. AT LEAST until the kids are SOLID in mastering it.. Reserve the freaking "tricks and tips" for tutoring sessions for students that NEED visual aids and crutches..

It's how academics on the lib arts screw up perfectly good basic knowledge all the time. By "over teaching" it...

It's no wonder you cant get EVERY kid thru Trig and Algebra 1 wasting time and making kids fear math... We might also get around the "math is racist" argument -- if black kids got some tutorials is defending themselves against folks that ABUSE statistics. And statistics are abused daily everywhere. This is not EVEN math.. In the 21st century with a totally dysfunctional media -- THIS IS A SURVIVAL TOOL...

But you'll never get there spending so much redundant time to confuse kids on how to do the ESSENTIALS of math..

Why do you think math is intimidating?

I taught high school math for 21 years and NEVER had a student be intimidated. I never knew a college student to be intimidated by math. I think you are imagining things!

With my personal experience, I had 2 years 7-8 grade where my teacher cried every other day and yelled at students by the end of the week if we didn't plot the 12 pages of point plotting and colored them. Most of us did them but when we asked why it was all we did she would get angry. After that, I struggled along with most of my classmates to grasp algebra and other forms of basic mathematics. Now if I do something and learn it I can repeat the solution but then I had to perform the same problem with 3 separate methods on different sections and I started getting lost. I don't have the best memory so I got better with notes and writing equations due to the multiple methods. I needed but when I had to apply 8 different solutions to solve some forms of algebra or even geometry. (it isn't as bad but still occurring) You could easily say I just suck at math and be done with it and that could very well be true but the fear factor and overteaching is something I experienced frequently. That is my experience with math, I have no doubt you were a great teacher but when the stuff like I said occurs it messes up the subject entirely. My girlfriend who had a similar issue gave up her dream to be a biologist because she feels she's not good enough at math even though she passes every course.

In other words, you are a dumbass! There are no 8 different solutions in algebra. I taught it for 21 years. Your self-confidence is the issue, as well as your girlfriend's. There are no excuses why you cannot learn math. You are providing planty you have made up to placate your ego and shift the blame for your poor math skills.

I wouldn't go that far but hey someone has to. I am not talking about an inability to learn just a difficulty with it. You cant get into the world without math skills of some sort of course I had to do it like anyone else. The difference is I am not good at it. This isn't about an inability it is about a fear that goes with it. I am telling you of an experience that caused anxiety in that field. I had a wonderful teacher who helped me later on. If my ego meant so much I wouldn't have shared a once complication. However, if that is what you got out of that fine. I"ve found my place and I am fine currently but that doesn't make the issues others had, go away. While you can say there aren't 8 different ways to do algebra that is exactly what we are being taught or at least what we had been taught in high school.

Bullshit! Stop pissing on my leg and telling me it is raining! You are making shit up, plain and simple.

factoring, using the square roots, completing the square and the quadratic formula. graphing. substitution method. elimination method. ( 7 of 8 that I could remember no not all for the same problem it is 3 for one 3 for another)

Hope that is put simply enough for you mate!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I agree with that completely and totally. When in high school I actually had those issues in mathematics so it is quite intriguing that you put it so perfectly. How do you personally think we could stop this fear?

It very simple and NOT hard to fix.. Get 25 of America's top STEM Professional Societies to write an "open letter" to the academic eggheads in the Ed Depts of colleges --- SCOLDING THEM for making math intimidating. Tell them to teach the one way that always works PRECISELY first. And drop this insane clatter about 5 different ways to think about multiplication or finding the "roots" of equations" in Algebra. AT LEAST until the kids are SOLID in mastering it.. Reserve the freaking "tricks and tips" for tutoring sessions for students that NEED visual aids and crutches..

It's how academics on the lib arts screw up perfectly good basic knowledge all the time. By "over teaching" it...

It's no wonder you cant get EVERY kid thru Trig and Algebra 1 wasting time and making kids fear math... We might also get around the "math is racist" argument -- if black kids got some tutorials is defending themselves against folks that ABUSE statistics. And statistics are abused daily everywhere. This is not EVEN math.. In the 21st century with a totally dysfunctional media -- THIS IS A SURVIVAL TOOL...

But you'll never get there spending so much redundant time to confuse kids on how to do the ESSENTIALS of math..

Why do you think math is intimidating?

I taught high school math for 21 years and NEVER had a student be intimidated. I never knew a college student to be intimidated by math. I think you are imagining things!

With my personal experience, I had 2 years 7-8 grade where my teacher cried every other day and yelled at students by the end of the week if we didn't plot the 12 pages of point plotting and colored them. Most of us did them but when we asked why it was all we did she would get angry. After that, I struggled along with most of my classmates to grasp algebra and other forms of basic mathematics. Now if I do something and learn it I can repeat the solution but then I had to perform the same problem with 3 separate methods on different sections and I started getting lost. I don't have the best memory so I got better with notes and writing equations due to the multiple methods. I needed but when I had to apply 8 different solutions to solve some forms of algebra or even geometry. (it isn't as bad but still occurring) You could easily say I just suck at math and be done with it and that could very well be true but the fear factor and overteaching is something I experienced frequently. That is my experience with math, I have no doubt you were a great teacher but when the stuff like I said occurs it messes up the subject entirely. My girlfriend who had a similar issue gave up her dream to be a biologist because she feels she's not good enough at math even though she passes every course.

In other words, you are a dumbass! There are no 8 different solutions in algebra. I taught it for 21 years. Your self-confidence is the issue, as well as your girlfriend's. There are no excuses why you cannot learn math. You are providing planty you have made up to placate your ego and shift the blame for your poor math skills.

No.. NOT a dumbass. I've seen successful students bullied into submission over learning 4 ways to add or multiply.. I outlined it above.. Successfully tutored about 10 of them out of the FEAR that these methods instill in kids.. It NEEDS to be called out by the highest levels of the Engineering and Science professional orgs before we DESTROY STEM education in this country over primadonnas in college ED depts wasting class time teaching "smoke and mirror" methods for math basics.. There is always the BEST and most accurate way.. That had always been the focus up to 20 years ago and math performance has been falling like a rock since..

Listen, I normally respect your comments, but you are out to lunch on this topic! You have no clue as to what you are talking about. I taught math in grades 6,7,8,9,10, 11, and 12! There are not 4 ways to add or multiply except in your imagination, and student would able to chose whatever method worked best for them if there were.

BTW, education departments don't teach math! They teach education courses. I have an undergraduate degree in history. I have a teacher certification for math. I have a graduate degree in Ed. Leadership. Not once in any of those courses did I take a math class in an education class! They were all taught by the mathematics department. Even when I majoring in computer science in the school of Engineering, the math classes were taught by the Math Department. You are simply wrong on that point also!

 

[Pythagoras]

I agree with that completely and totally. When in high school I actually had those issues in mathematics so it is quite intriguing that you put it so perfectly. How do you personally think we could stop this fear?

It very simple and NOT hard to fix.. Get 25 of America's top STEM Professional Societies to write an "open letter" to the academic eggheads in the Ed Depts of colleges --- SCOLDING THEM for making math intimidating. Tell them to teach the one way that always works PRECISELY first. And drop this insane clatter about 5 different ways to think about multiplication or finding the "roots" of equations" in Algebra. AT LEAST until the kids are SOLID in mastering it.. Reserve the freaking "tricks and tips" for tutoring sessions for students that NEED visual aids and crutches..

It's how academics on the lib arts screw up perfectly good basic knowledge all the time. By "over teaching" it...

It's no wonder you cant get EVERY kid thru Trig and Algebra 1 wasting time and making kids fear math... We might also get around the "math is racist" argument -- if black kids got some tutorials is defending themselves against folks that ABUSE statistics. And statistics are abused daily everywhere. This is not EVEN math.. In the 21st century with a totally dysfunctional media -- THIS IS A SURVIVAL TOOL...

But you'll never get there spending so much redundant time to confuse kids on how to do the ESSENTIALS of math..

Why do you think math is intimidating?

I taught high school math for 21 years and NEVER had a student be intimidated. I never knew a college student to be intimidated by math. I think you are imagining things!

With my personal experience, I had 2 years 7-8 grade where my teacher cried every other day and yelled at students by the end of the week if we didn't plot the 12 pages of point plotting and colored them. Most of us did them but when we asked why it was all we did she would get angry. After that, I struggled along with most of my classmates to grasp algebra and other forms of basic mathematics. Now if I do something and learn it I can repeat the solution but then I had to perform the same problem with 3 separate methods on different sections and I started getting lost. I don't have the best memory so I got better with notes and writing equations due to the multiple methods. I needed but when I had to apply 8 different solutions to solve some forms of algebra or even geometry. (it isn't as bad but still occurring) You could easily say I just suck at math and be done with it and that could very well be true but the fear factor and overteaching is something I experienced frequently. That is my experience with math, I have no doubt you were a great teacher but when the stuff like I said occurs it messes up the subject entirely. My girlfriend who had a similar issue gave up her dream to be a biologist because she feels she's not good enough at math even though she passes every course.

In other words, you are a dumbass! There are no 8 different solutions in algebra. I taught it for 21 years. Your self-confidence is the issue, as well as your girlfriend's. There are no excuses why you cannot learn math. You are providing planty you have made up to placate your ego and shift the blame for your poor math skills.

No.. NOT a dumbass. I've seen successful students bullied into submission over learning 4 ways to add or multiply.. I outlined it above.. Successfully tutored about 10 of them out of the FEAR that these methods instill in kids.. It NEEDS to be called out by the highest levels of the Engineering and Science professional orgs before we DESTROY STEM education in this country over primadonnas in college ED depts wasting class time teaching "smoke and mirror" methods for math basics.. There is always the BEST and most accurate way.. That had always been the focus up to 20 years ago and math performance has been falling like a rock since..

Listen, I normally respect your comments, but you are out to lunch on this topic! You have no clue as to what you are talking about. I taught math in grades 6,7,8,9,10, 11, and 12! There are not 4 ways to add or multiply except in your imagination, and student would able to chose whatever method worked best for them if there were.

BTW, education departments don't teach math! They teach education courses. I have an undergraduate degree in history. I have a teacher certification for math. I have a graduate degree in Ed. Leadership. Not once in any of those courses did I take a math class in an education class! They were all taught by the mathematics department. Even when I majoring in computer science in the school of Engineering, the math classes were taught by the Math Department. You are simply wrong on that point also!

When did you last teach? I am not saying you did things incorrectly or that things when you were teaching, don't matter. Simply I went through and these are all things that occurred if they didn't where you were that's great more power to you but here and where I grew up the systems are the way I am telling you. I may not be great at math but I am not some yokel from under a trash heap. I'm not gonna sit here and lie. You asked me why I thought the way I did about fear and I told you based on my experience. Plain and Simple.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I agree with that completely and totally. When in high school I actually had those issues in mathematics so it is quite intriguing that you put it so perfectly. How do you personally think we could stop this fear?

It very simple and NOT hard to fix.. Get 25 of America's top STEM Professional Societies to write an "open letter" to the academic eggheads in the Ed Depts of colleges --- SCOLDING THEM for making math intimidating. Tell them to teach the one way that always works PRECISELY first. And drop this insane clatter about 5 different ways to think about multiplication or finding the "roots" of equations" in Algebra. AT LEAST until the kids are SOLID in mastering it.. Reserve the freaking "tricks and tips" for tutoring sessions for students that NEED visual aids and crutches..

It's how academics on the lib arts screw up perfectly good basic knowledge all the time. By "over teaching" it...

It's no wonder you cant get EVERY kid thru Trig and Algebra 1 wasting time and making kids fear math... We might also get around the "math is racist" argument -- if black kids got some tutorials is defending themselves against folks that ABUSE statistics. And statistics are abused daily everywhere. This is not EVEN math.. In the 21st century with a totally dysfunctional media -- THIS IS A SURVIVAL TOOL...

But you'll never get there spending so much redundant time to confuse kids on how to do the ESSENTIALS of math..

Why do you think math is intimidating?

I taught high school math for 21 years and NEVER had a student be intimidated. I never knew a college student to be intimidated by math. I think you are imagining things!

With my personal experience, I had 2 years 7-8 grade where my teacher cried every other day and yelled at students by the end of the week if we didn't plot the 12 pages of point plotting and colored them. Most of us did them but when we asked why it was all we did she would get angry. After that, I struggled along with most of my classmates to grasp algebra and other forms of basic mathematics. Now if I do something and learn it I can repeat the solution but then I had to perform the same problem with 3 separate methods on different sections and I started getting lost. I don't have the best memory so I got better with notes and writing equations due to the multiple methods. I needed but when I had to apply 8 different solutions to solve some forms of algebra or even geometry. (it isn't as bad but still occurring) You could easily say I just suck at math and be done with it and that could very well be true but the fear factor and overteaching is something I experienced frequently. That is my experience with math, I have no doubt you were a great teacher but when the stuff like I said occurs it messes up the subject entirely. My girlfriend who had a similar issue gave up her dream to be a biologist because she feels she's not good enough at math even though she passes every course.

In other words, you are a dumbass! There are no 8 different solutions in algebra. I taught it for 21 years. Your self-confidence is the issue, as well as your girlfriend's. There are no excuses why you cannot learn math. You are providing planty you have made up to placate your ego and shift the blame for your poor math skills.

I wouldn't go that far but hey someone has to. I am not talking about an inability to learn just a difficulty with it. You cant get into the world without math skills of some sort of course I had to do it like anyone else. The difference is I am not good at it. This isn't about an inability it is about a fear that goes with it. I am telling you of an experience that caused anxiety in that field. I had a wonderful teacher who helped me later on. If my ego meant so much I wouldn't have shared a once complication. However, if that is what you got out of that fine. I"ve found my place and I am fine currently but that doesn't make the issues others had, go away. While you can say there aren't 8 different ways to do algebra that is exactly what we are being taught or at least what we had been taught in high school.

Bullshit! Stop pissing on my leg and telling me it is raining! You are making shit up, plain and simple.

Not at all -- you're a teacher right? Go pull a math textbook for 4th or 5th grade math...

In fact while you're pulling that textbook -- get some education here...

What Are Different Ways to Multiply? - Video & Lesson Transcript | Study.com

Go look at how PREVALENT this "math torture" is....

I NEVER "make up shit"... And if your leg is wet -- get Depends...

I retired almost 3 years ago, That is a video explaining multiplication that would not be used in a classroom. It illustrates the 4 methods, which are all variations of each other to solve a multiplication problem. Students are NEVER, repeat NEVER required to demonstrate any of these methods to answer a question on a standardized test, which are usually multiple choice. So your pathetic attempt at proving me wrong, failed miserably.

 

[flacaltenn]

BTW, education departments don't teach math! They teach education courses. I have an undergraduate degree in history. I have a teacher certification for math.

These "concepts" for teaching come OUT of academia.. Pure and simple.. As "strategies" to have methods to reach the 5% of kids who cant get long multiplication or division. These changes I'm telling you about came at LEAST 2 or 3 decades since you got your credentials.. And they've been incorporated like hotcakes into the textbooks and syllabuses for local school boards..

You don't LEARN these methods anywhere ELSE at college EXCEPT thru the Ed Dept.

Did you watch the opening of that video? Bet you didn't... It's HORSESHIT.. And dangerous to our success getting kids to CHOOSE STEM careers..

 

[Pythagoras]

I agree with that completely and totally. When in high school I actually had those issues in mathematics so it is quite intriguing that you put it so perfectly. How do you personally think we could stop this fear?

It very simple and NOT hard to fix.. Get 25 of America's top STEM Professional Societies to write an "open letter" to the academic eggheads in the Ed Depts of colleges --- SCOLDING THEM for making math intimidating. Tell them to teach the one way that always works PRECISELY first. And drop this insane clatter about 5 different ways to think about multiplication or finding the "roots" of equations" in Algebra. AT LEAST until the kids are SOLID in mastering it.. Reserve the freaking "tricks and tips" for tutoring sessions for students that NEED visual aids and crutches..

It's how academics on the lib arts screw up perfectly good basic knowledge all the time. By "over teaching" it...

It's no wonder you cant get EVERY kid thru Trig and Algebra 1 wasting time and making kids fear math... We might also get around the "math is racist" argument -- if black kids got some tutorials is defending themselves against folks that ABUSE statistics. And statistics are abused daily everywhere. This is not EVEN math.. In the 21st century with a totally dysfunctional media -- THIS IS A SURVIVAL TOOL...

But you'll never get there spending so much redundant time to confuse kids on how to do the ESSENTIALS of math..

Why do you think math is intimidating?

I taught high school math for 21 years and NEVER had a student be intimidated. I never knew a college student to be intimidated by math. I think you are imagining things!

With my personal experience, I had 2 years 7-8 grade where my teacher cried every other day and yelled at students by the end of the week if we didn't plot the 12 pages of point plotting and colored them. Most of us did them but when we asked why it was all we did she would get angry. After that, I struggled along with most of my classmates to grasp algebra and other forms of basic mathematics. Now if I do something and learn it I can repeat the solution but then I had to perform the same problem with 3 separate methods on different sections and I started getting lost. I don't have the best memory so I got better with notes and writing equations due to the multiple methods. I needed but when I had to apply 8 different solutions to solve some forms of algebra or even geometry. (it isn't as bad but still occurring) You could easily say I just suck at math and be done with it and that could very well be true but the fear factor and overteaching is something I experienced frequently. That is my experience with math, I have no doubt you were a great teacher but when the stuff like I said occurs it messes up the subject entirely. My girlfriend who had a similar issue gave up her dream to be a biologist because she feels she's not good enough at math even though she passes every course.

In other words, you are a dumbass! There are no 8 different solutions in algebra. I taught it for 21 years. Your self-confidence is the issue, as well as your girlfriend's. There are no excuses why you cannot learn math. You are providing planty you have made up to placate your ego and shift the blame for your poor math skills.

I wouldn't go that far but hey someone has to. I am not talking about an inability to learn just a difficulty with it. You cant get into the world without math skills of some sort of course I had to do it like anyone else. The difference is I am not good at it. This isn't about an inability it is about a fear that goes with it. I am telling you of an experience that caused anxiety in that field. I had a wonderful teacher who helped me later on. If my ego meant so much I wouldn't have shared a once complication. However, if that is what you got out of that fine. I"ve found my place and I am fine currently but that doesn't make the issues others had, go away. While you can say there aren't 8 different ways to do algebra that is exactly what we are being taught or at least what we had been taught in high school.

Bullshit! Stop pissing on my leg and telling me it is raining! You are making shit up, plain and simple.

Not at all -- you're a teacher right? Go pull a math textbook for 4th or 5th grade math...

In fact while you're pulling that textbook -- get some education here...

What Are Different Ways to Multiply? - Video & Lesson Transcript | Study.com

Go look at how PREVALENT this "math torture" is....

I NEVER "make up shit"... And if your leg is wet -- get Depends...

I retired almost 3 years ago, That is a video explaining multiplication that would not be used in a classroom. It illustrates the 4 methods, which are all variations of each other to solve a multiplication problem. Students are NEVER, repeat NEVER required to demonstrate any of these methods to answer a question on a standardized test, which are usually multiple choice. So your pathetic attempt at proving me wrong, failed miserably.

I hate to say it but I took the test 2 years ago. Those solving methods of different variations were on that test.

 

[ClaireH]

Leave it up to locals. If every curriculum is different that is only a strength.

What makes you believe that to be a strength? Having different forms of education just based on local areas could result in misinformation and division in any form of work if they make it that far without a standard to live up to. Do you think these things would disappear, not occur, or do you have a solution?

It supports freedom of choice. Education options are offered via format in all states due to COVID-19, but parents of young students want different things for their kids. As a parent (and teacher for the record) I liked having an option for my child for preschool. It was nice comparing the open classroom concept to regular preschool, and even looked into Catholic versus Protestant preschools. We ended up going with a Protestant preschool (best around regarding feedback from other parents), Catholic kindergarten (best option locally at the time academically), and then the best public school that was out-of-district but worth the drive.

In talking with many parents, they had different reasons for selecting different formats as well. The open concept schools (imo) are better suited for kids with a lot of self-confidence, but I can guarantee that many other parents would disagree with me. It all depends upon the child. Every student has different learning abilities and needs, and individualized instruction goes a long way to help each student do their best.

We all have different perceptions about what looks like the best fit for our kiddos, and that's something that will be greatly missed if the US ever does move toward some across-the-board uniform modeling concept. I shudder just thinking of that actually.

Edit: Online format is a good option for kids who have social anxiety for instance, while attending traditional classes is the better option for the majority, that is, if the district has good administrators and teachers.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I agree with that completely and totally. When in high school I actually had those issues in mathematics so it is quite intriguing that you put it so perfectly. How do you personally think we could stop this fear?

It very simple and NOT hard to fix.. Get 25 of America's top STEM Professional Societies to write an "open letter" to the academic eggheads in the Ed Depts of colleges --- SCOLDING THEM for making math intimidating. Tell them to teach the one way that always works PRECISELY first. And drop this insane clatter about 5 different ways to think about multiplication or finding the "roots" of equations" in Algebra. AT LEAST until the kids are SOLID in mastering it.. Reserve the freaking "tricks and tips" for tutoring sessions for students that NEED visual aids and crutches..

It's how academics on the lib arts screw up perfectly good basic knowledge all the time. By "over teaching" it...

It's no wonder you cant get EVERY kid thru Trig and Algebra 1 wasting time and making kids fear math... We might also get around the "math is racist" argument -- if black kids got some tutorials is defending themselves against folks that ABUSE statistics. And statistics are abused daily everywhere. This is not EVEN math.. In the 21st century with a totally dysfunctional media -- THIS IS A SURVIVAL TOOL...

But you'll never get there spending so much redundant time to confuse kids on how to do the ESSENTIALS of math..

Why do you think math is intimidating?

I taught high school math for 21 years and NEVER had a student be intimidated. I never knew a college student to be intimidated by math. I think you are imagining things!

With my personal experience, I had 2 years 7-8 grade where my teacher cried every other day and yelled at students by the end of the week if we didn't plot the 12 pages of point plotting and colored them. Most of us did them but when we asked why it was all we did she would get angry. After that, I struggled along with most of my classmates to grasp algebra and other forms of basic mathematics. Now if I do something and learn it I can repeat the solution but then I had to perform the same problem with 3 separate methods on different sections and I started getting lost. I don't have the best memory so I got better with notes and writing equations due to the multiple methods. I needed but when I had to apply 8 different solutions to solve some forms of algebra or even geometry. (it isn't as bad but still occurring) You could easily say I just suck at math and be done with it and that could very well be true but the fear factor and overteaching is something I experienced frequently. That is my experience with math, I have no doubt you were a great teacher but when the stuff like I said occurs it messes up the subject entirely. My girlfriend who had a similar issue gave up her dream to be a biologist because she feels she's not good enough at math even though she passes every course.

In other words, you are a dumbass! There are no 8 different solutions in algebra. I taught it for 21 years. Your self-confidence is the issue, as well as your girlfriend's. There are no excuses why you cannot learn math. You are providing planty you have made up to placate your ego and shift the blame for your poor math skills.

No.. NOT a dumbass. I've seen successful students bullied into submission over learning 4 ways to add or multiply.. I outlined it above.. Successfully tutored about 10 of them out of the FEAR that these methods instill in kids.. It NEEDS to be called out by the highest levels of the Engineering and Science professional orgs before we DESTROY STEM education in this country over primadonnas in college ED depts wasting class time teaching "smoke and mirror" methods for math basics.. There is always the BEST and most accurate way.. That had always been the focus up to 20 years ago and math performance has been falling like a rock since..

Listen, I normally respect your comments, but you are out to lunch on this topic! You have no clue as to what you are talking about. I taught math in grades 6,7,8,9,10, 11, and 12! There are not 4 ways to add or multiply except in your imagination, and student would able to chose whatever method worked best for them if there were.

BTW, education departments don't teach math! They teach education courses. I have an undergraduate degree in history. I have a teacher certification for math. I have a graduate degree in Ed. Leadership. Not once in any of those courses did I take a math class in an education class! They were all taught by the mathematics department. Even when I majoring in computer science in the school of Engineering, the math classes were taught by the Math Department. You are simply wrong on that point also!

When did you last teach? I am not saying you did things incorrectly or that things when you were teaching, don't matter. Simply I went through and these are all things that occurred if they didn't where you were that's great more power to you but here and where I grew up the systems are the way I am telling you. I may not be great at math but I am not some yokel from under a trash heap. I'm not gonna sit here and lie. You asked me why I thought the way I did about fear and I told you based on my experience. Plain and Simple.

As I said in another post, I retired almost 3 years ago. You are making a large assumption here that is not true. Fear is indication of a an inferior intellect when it comes to mathematics. I taught a couple of thousand of students in my career, and fear never entered into any conversation where math was concerned. Parents always used the excuse, "Well, my child comes by it naturally because I was never good at math!" I had to stifle laughter many times at this poor excuse for failure to seek help or not doing the assigned work, leading to failure.

 

[flacaltenn]

I agree with that completely and totally. When in high school I actually had those issues in mathematics so it is quite intriguing that you put it so perfectly. How do you personally think we could stop this fear?

It very simple and NOT hard to fix.. Get 25 of America's top STEM Professional Societies to write an "open letter" to the academic eggheads in the Ed Depts of colleges --- SCOLDING THEM for making math intimidating. Tell them to teach the one way that always works PRECISELY first. And drop this insane clatter about 5 different ways to think about multiplication or finding the "roots" of equations" in Algebra. AT LEAST until the kids are SOLID in mastering it.. Reserve the freaking "tricks and tips" for tutoring sessions for students that NEED visual aids and crutches..

It's how academics on the lib arts screw up perfectly good basic knowledge all the time. By "over teaching" it...

It's no wonder you cant get EVERY kid thru Trig and Algebra 1 wasting time and making kids fear math... We might also get around the "math is racist" argument -- if black kids got some tutorials is defending themselves against folks that ABUSE statistics. And statistics are abused daily everywhere. This is not EVEN math.. In the 21st century with a totally dysfunctional media -- THIS IS A SURVIVAL TOOL...

But you'll never get there spending so much redundant time to confuse kids on how to do the ESSENTIALS of math..

Why do you think math is intimidating?

I taught high school math for 21 years and NEVER had a student be intimidated. I never knew a college student to be intimidated by math. I think you are imagining things!

With my personal experience, I had 2 years 7-8 grade where my teacher cried every other day and yelled at students by the end of the week if we didn't plot the 12 pages of point plotting and colored them. Most of us did them but when we asked why it was all we did she would get angry. After that, I struggled along with most of my classmates to grasp algebra and other forms of basic mathematics. Now if I do something and learn it I can repeat the solution but then I had to perform the same problem with 3 separate methods on different sections and I started getting lost. I don't have the best memory so I got better with notes and writing equations due to the multiple methods. I needed but when I had to apply 8 different solutions to solve some forms of algebra or even geometry. (it isn't as bad but still occurring) You could easily say I just suck at math and be done with it and that could very well be true but the fear factor and overteaching is something I experienced frequently. That is my experience with math, I have no doubt you were a great teacher but when the stuff like I said occurs it messes up the subject entirely. My girlfriend who had a similar issue gave up her dream to be a biologist because she feels she's not good enough at math even though she passes every course.

In other words, you are a dumbass! There are no 8 different solutions in algebra. I taught it for 21 years. Your self-confidence is the issue, as well as your girlfriend's. There are no excuses why you cannot learn math. You are providing planty you have made up to placate your ego and shift the blame for your poor math skills.

I wouldn't go that far but hey someone has to. I am not talking about an inability to learn just a difficulty with it. You cant get into the world without math skills of some sort of course I had to do it like anyone else. The difference is I am not good at it. This isn't about an inability it is about a fear that goes with it. I am telling you of an experience that caused anxiety in that field. I had a wonderful teacher who helped me later on. If my ego meant so much I wouldn't have shared a once complication. However, if that is what you got out of that fine. I"ve found my place and I am fine currently but that doesn't make the issues others had, go away. While you can say there aren't 8 different ways to do algebra that is exactly what we are being taught or at least what we had been taught in high school.

Bullshit! Stop pissing on my leg and telling me it is raining! You are making shit up, plain and simple.

Not at all -- you're a teacher right? Go pull a math textbook for 4th or 5th grade math...

In fact while you're pulling that textbook -- get some education here...

What Are Different Ways to Multiply? - Video & Lesson Transcript | Study.com

Go look at how PREVALENT this "math torture" is....

I NEVER "make up shit"... And if your leg is wet -- get Depends...

I retired almost 3 years ago, That is a video explaining multiplication that would not be used in a classroom. It illustrates the 4 methods, which are all variations of each other to solve a multiplication problem. Students are NEVER, repeat NEVER required to demonstrate any of these methods to answer a question on a standardized test, which are usually multiple choice. So your pathetic attempt at proving me wrong, failed miserably.

Quite simply you're wrong.. I've seen the homework and tests from my emergency remedial tutoring.. In FACT, a couple months ago I went to IEEE (Institute for Electrical and Electronic Engineers) and ask them to place this problem on their education outreach agenda. They were ALREADY aware and working on statements..

When kids get red marks for "being too accurate" while estimating -- you're gonna lose them. Or just INTUITIVELY realizing the teacher is wasting your time making you jump hoops by showing the Matrix Method of Multiplication or the "stick method" -- you're KILLING math education..

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I agree with that completely and totally. When in high school I actually had those issues in mathematics so it is quite intriguing that you put it so perfectly. How do you personally think we could stop this fear?

It very simple and NOT hard to fix.. Get 25 of America's top STEM Professional Societies to write an "open letter" to the academic eggheads in the Ed Depts of colleges --- SCOLDING THEM for making math intimidating. Tell them to teach the one way that always works PRECISELY first. And drop this insane clatter about 5 different ways to think about multiplication or finding the "roots" of equations" in Algebra. AT LEAST until the kids are SOLID in mastering it.. Reserve the freaking "tricks and tips" for tutoring sessions for students that NEED visual aids and crutches..

It's how academics on the lib arts screw up perfectly good basic knowledge all the time. By "over teaching" it...

It's no wonder you cant get EVERY kid thru Trig and Algebra 1 wasting time and making kids fear math... We might also get around the "math is racist" argument -- if black kids got some tutorials is defending themselves against folks that ABUSE statistics. And statistics are abused daily everywhere. This is not EVEN math.. In the 21st century with a totally dysfunctional media -- THIS IS A SURVIVAL TOOL...

But you'll never get there spending so much redundant time to confuse kids on how to do the ESSENTIALS of math..

Why do you think math is intimidating?

I taught high school math for 21 years and NEVER had a student be intimidated. I never knew a college student to be intimidated by math. I think you are imagining things!

With my personal experience, I had 2 years 7-8 grade where my teacher cried every other day and yelled at students by the end of the week if we didn't plot the 12 pages of point plotting and colored them. Most of us did them but when we asked why it was all we did she would get angry. After that, I struggled along with most of my classmates to grasp algebra and other forms of basic mathematics. Now if I do something and learn it I can repeat the solution but then I had to perform the same problem with 3 separate methods on different sections and I started getting lost. I don't have the best memory so I got better with notes and writing equations due to the multiple methods. I needed but when I had to apply 8 different solutions to solve some forms of algebra or even geometry. (it isn't as bad but still occurring) You could easily say I just suck at math and be done with it and that could very well be true but the fear factor and overteaching is something I experienced frequently. That is my experience with math, I have no doubt you were a great teacher but when the stuff like I said occurs it messes up the subject entirely. My girlfriend who had a similar issue gave up her dream to be a biologist because she feels she's not good enough at math even though she passes every course.

In other words, you are a dumbass! There are no 8 different solutions in algebra. I taught it for 21 years. Your self-confidence is the issue, as well as your girlfriend's. There are no excuses why you cannot learn math. You are providing planty you have made up to placate your ego and shift the blame for your poor math skills.

I wouldn't go that far but hey someone has to. I am not talking about an inability to learn just a difficulty with it. You cant get into the world without math skills of some sort of course I had to do it like anyone else. The difference is I am not good at it. This isn't about an inability it is about a fear that goes with it. I am telling you of an experience that caused anxiety in that field. I had a wonderful teacher who helped me later on. If my ego meant so much I wouldn't have shared a once complication. However, if that is what you got out of that fine. I"ve found my place and I am fine currently but that doesn't make the issues others had, go away. While you can say there aren't 8 different ways to do algebra that is exactly what we are being taught or at least what we had been taught in high school.

Bullshit! Stop pissing on my leg and telling me it is raining! You are making shit up, plain and simple.

Not at all -- you're a teacher right? Go pull a math textbook for 4th or 5th grade math...

In fact while you're pulling that textbook -- get some education here...

What Are Different Ways to Multiply? - Video & Lesson Transcript | Study.com

Go look at how PREVALENT this "math torture" is....

I NEVER "make up shit"... And if your leg is wet -- get Depends...

I retired almost 3 years ago, That is a video explaining multiplication that would not be used in a classroom. It illustrates the 4 methods, which are all variations of each other to solve a multiplication problem. Students are NEVER, repeat NEVER required to demonstrate any of these methods to answer a question on a standardized test, which are usually multiple choice. So your pathetic attempt at proving me wrong, failed miserably.

I hate to say it but I took the test 2 years ago. Those solving methods of different variations were on that test.

What test was that?

 

[Pythagoras]

Leave it up to locals. If every curriculum is different that is only a strength.

What makes you believe that to be a strength? Having different forms of education just based on local areas could result in misinformation and division in any form of work if they make it that far without a standard to live up to. Do you think these things would disappear, not occur, or do you have a solution?

It supports freedom of choice. Education options are offered via format in all states due to COVID-19 but parents of young students want different things for their kids. As a parent (and teacher for the record) I liked having an option for my child for preschool. It was nice comparing the open classroom concept to regular preschool, and even looked into Catholic versus Protestant preschools. We ended up going with a Protestant preschool (best around regarding feedback from other parents), Catholic kindergarten (best option locally at the time academically), and then the best public school that was out-of-district but worth the drive.

In talking with many parents, they had different reasons for selecting different formats as well. The open concept schools (imo) are better suited for kids with a lot of self-confidence, and I can guarantee that many other parents should disagree. We all have different perceptions about what looks like the best fit for our kiddos, and that's something that will be greatly missed if the US ever does move toward some across-the-board uniform modeling concept. I shudder just thinking of that actually.

As a student (not a parent or teacher) I see things differently but that being said you have very valid points. Things I don't have much experience with and you perspective is greatly appreciated and will be considered in any further discussion. Thank you I appreciate that.

 

[Pythagoras]

I agree with that completely and totally. When in high school I actually had those issues in mathematics so it is quite intriguing that you put it so perfectly. How do you personally think we could stop this fear?

It very simple and NOT hard to fix.. Get 25 of America's top STEM Professional Societies to write an "open letter" to the academic eggheads in the Ed Depts of colleges --- SCOLDING THEM for making math intimidating. Tell them to teach the one way that always works PRECISELY first. And drop this insane clatter about 5 different ways to think about multiplication or finding the "roots" of equations" in Algebra. AT LEAST until the kids are SOLID in mastering it.. Reserve the freaking "tricks and tips" for tutoring sessions for students that NEED visual aids and crutches..

It's how academics on the lib arts screw up perfectly good basic knowledge all the time. By "over teaching" it...

It's no wonder you cant get EVERY kid thru Trig and Algebra 1 wasting time and making kids fear math... We might also get around the "math is racist" argument -- if black kids got some tutorials is defending themselves against folks that ABUSE statistics. And statistics are abused daily everywhere. This is not EVEN math.. In the 21st century with a totally dysfunctional media -- THIS IS A SURVIVAL TOOL...

But you'll never get there spending so much redundant time to confuse kids on how to do the ESSENTIALS of math..

Why do you think math is intimidating?

I taught high school math for 21 years and NEVER had a student be intimidated. I never knew a college student to be intimidated by math. I think you are imagining things!

With my personal experience, I had 2 years 7-8 grade where my teacher cried every other day and yelled at students by the end of the week if we didn't plot the 12 pages of point plotting and colored them. Most of us did them but when we asked why it was all we did she would get angry. After that, I struggled along with most of my classmates to grasp algebra and other forms of basic mathematics. Now if I do something and learn it I can repeat the solution but then I had to perform the same problem with 3 separate methods on different sections and I started getting lost. I don't have the best memory so I got better with notes and writing equations due to the multiple methods. I needed but when I had to apply 8 different solutions to solve some forms of algebra or even geometry. (it isn't as bad but still occurring) You could easily say I just suck at math and be done with it and that could very well be true but the fear factor and overteaching is something I experienced frequently. That is my experience with math, I have no doubt you were a great teacher but when the stuff like I said occurs it messes up the subject entirely. My girlfriend who had a similar issue gave up her dream to be a biologist because she feels she's not good enough at math even though she passes every course.

In other words, you are a dumbass! There are no 8 different solutions in algebra. I taught it for 21 years. Your self-confidence is the issue, as well as your girlfriend's. There are no excuses why you cannot learn math. You are providing planty you have made up to placate your ego and shift the blame for your poor math skills.

I wouldn't go that far but hey someone has to. I am not talking about an inability to learn just a difficulty with it. You cant get into the world without math skills of some sort of course I had to do it like anyone else. The difference is I am not good at it. This isn't about an inability it is about a fear that goes with it. I am telling you of an experience that caused anxiety in that field. I had a wonderful teacher who helped me later on. If my ego meant so much I wouldn't have shared a once complication. However, if that is what you got out of that fine. I"ve found my place and I am fine currently but that doesn't make the issues others had, go away. While you can say there aren't 8 different ways to do algebra that is exactly what we are being taught or at least what we had been taught in high school.

Bullshit! Stop pissing on my leg and telling me it is raining! You are making shit up, plain and simple.

Not at all -- you're a teacher right? Go pull a math textbook for 4th or 5th grade math...

In fact while you're pulling that textbook -- get some education here...

What Are Different Ways to Multiply? - Video & Lesson Transcript | Study.com

Go look at how PREVALENT this "math torture" is....

I NEVER "make up shit"... And if your leg is wet -- get Depends...

I retired almost 3 years ago, That is a video explaining multiplication that would not be used in a classroom. It illustrates the 4 methods, which are all variations of each other to solve a multiplication problem. Students are NEVER, repeat NEVER required to demonstrate any of these methods to answer a question on a standardized test, which are usually multiple choice. So your pathetic attempt at proving me wrong, failed miserably.

I hate to say it but I took the test 2 years ago. Those solving methods of different variations were on that test.

What test was that?

2 state tests were in preparation for the ACT and the ACT.

 

[flacaltenn]

Here's more "smoke and mirror" noise on elementary math.. Kids who waste time on this will NEVER become algorithmic programmers or even successful accountants because NOBODY is gonna draw an 8 way geometric box in their head with diagonals and peripheral calculations to multiply 2 simple 2 digit numbers.. I just shake my head and pray when I see this being taught in lower school grades.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I agree with that completely and totally. When in high school I actually had those issues in mathematics so it is quite intriguing that you put it so perfectly. How do you personally think we could stop this fear?

It very simple and NOT hard to fix.. Get 25 of America's top STEM Professional Societies to write an "open letter" to the academic eggheads in the Ed Depts of colleges --- SCOLDING THEM for making math intimidating. Tell them to teach the one way that always works PRECISELY first. And drop this insane clatter about 5 different ways to think about multiplication or finding the "roots" of equations" in Algebra. AT LEAST until the kids are SOLID in mastering it.. Reserve the freaking "tricks and tips" for tutoring sessions for students that NEED visual aids and crutches..

It's how academics on the lib arts screw up perfectly good basic knowledge all the time. By "over teaching" it...

It's no wonder you cant get EVERY kid thru Trig and Algebra 1 wasting time and making kids fear math... We might also get around the "math is racist" argument -- if black kids got some tutorials is defending themselves against folks that ABUSE statistics. And statistics are abused daily everywhere. This is not EVEN math.. In the 21st century with a totally dysfunctional media -- THIS IS A SURVIVAL TOOL...

But you'll never get there spending so much redundant time to confuse kids on how to do the ESSENTIALS of math..

Why do you think math is intimidating?

I taught high school math for 21 years and NEVER had a student be intimidated. I never knew a college student to be intimidated by math. I think you are imagining things!

With my personal experience, I had 2 years 7-8 grade where my teacher cried every other day and yelled at students by the end of the week if we didn't plot the 12 pages of point plotting and colored them. Most of us did them but when we asked why it was all we did she would get angry. After that, I struggled along with most of my classmates to grasp algebra and other forms of basic mathematics. Now if I do something and learn it I can repeat the solution but then I had to perform the same problem with 3 separate methods on different sections and I started getting lost. I don't have the best memory so I got better with notes and writing equations due to the multiple methods. I needed but when I had to apply 8 different solutions to solve some forms of algebra or even geometry. (it isn't as bad but still occurring) You could easily say I just suck at math and be done with it and that could very well be true but the fear factor and overteaching is something I experienced frequently. That is my experience with math, I have no doubt you were a great teacher but when the stuff like I said occurs it messes up the subject entirely. My girlfriend who had a similar issue gave up her dream to be a biologist because she feels she's not good enough at math even though she passes every course.

In other words, you are a dumbass! There are no 8 different solutions in algebra. I taught it for 21 years. Your self-confidence is the issue, as well as your girlfriend's. There are no excuses why you cannot learn math. You are providing planty you have made up to placate your ego and shift the blame for your poor math skills.

I wouldn't go that far but hey someone has to. I am not talking about an inability to learn just a difficulty with it. You cant get into the world without math skills of some sort of course I had to do it like anyone else. The difference is I am not good at it. This isn't about an inability it is about a fear that goes with it. I am telling you of an experience that caused anxiety in that field. I had a wonderful teacher who helped me later on. If my ego meant so much I wouldn't have shared a once complication. However, if that is what you got out of that fine. I"ve found my place and I am fine currently but that doesn't make the issues others had, go away. While you can say there aren't 8 different ways to do algebra that is exactly what we are being taught or at least what we had been taught in high school.

Bullshit! Stop pissing on my leg and telling me it is raining! You are making shit up, plain and simple.

Not at all -- you're a teacher right? Go pull a math textbook for 4th or 5th grade math...

In fact while you're pulling that textbook -- get some education here...

What Are Different Ways to Multiply? - Video & Lesson Transcript | Study.com

Go look at how PREVALENT this "math torture" is....

I NEVER "make up shit"... And if your leg is wet -- get Depends...

I retired almost 3 years ago, That is a video explaining multiplication that would not be used in a classroom. It illustrates the 4 methods, which are all variations of each other to solve a multiplication problem. Students are NEVER, repeat NEVER required to demonstrate any of these methods to answer a question on a standardized test, which are usually multiple choice. So your pathetic attempt at proving me wrong, failed miserably.

Quite simply you're wrong.. I've seen the homework and tests from my emergency remedial tutoring.. In FACT, a couple months ago I went to IEEE (Institute for Electrical and Electronic Engineers) and ask them to place this problem on their education outreach agenda. They were ALREADY aware and working on statements..

When kids get red marks for "being too accurate" while estimating -- you're gonna lose them. Or just INTUITIVELY realizing the teacher is wasting your time making you jump hoops by showing the Matrix Method of Multiplication or the "stick method" -- you're KILLING math education..

You are completely clueless because you are not and never have been a math teacher. True? Those methods are all variation of the standard way to multiply. Sometime students choose to use another method. As I said, they do not exist on standardized tests which are multiple choice. The method used is irrelevant. Math education is just fine for those students who will dedicate the effort and do the work. The OP is too "skeered" to do that apparently.

His ridiculous claim of taking a test two years ago that required those methods is most likely a lie unless he is in the 5th garde right now!

BTW, education departments don't teach math! They teach education courses. I have an undergraduate degree in history. I have a teacher certification for math.

These "concepts" for teaching come OUT of academia.. Pure and simple.. As "strategies" to have methods to reach the 5% of kids who cant get long multiplication or division. These changes I'm telling you about came at LEAST 2 or 3 decades since you got your credentials.. And they've been incorporated like hotcakes into the textbooks and syllabuses for local school boards..

You don't LEARN these methods anywhere ELSE at college EXCEPT thru the Ed Dept.

Did you watch the opening of that video? Bet you didn't... It's HORSESHIT.. And dangerous to our success getting kids to CHOOSE STEM careers..

That video is something you just found on the internet. It is not used in public schools. Thank you very much for your pathetic hysteria.

Again, you you are talking out of your ass. Education departments do not teach math classes. I had to take math classes of my graduate degree. Guess who taught them? The math department.

Those methods are inaccurately called Common Core math. My grandson and granddaughter are all in public schools right now and have been exposed to these methods. They are all variations on the same method. None of them have ever had any difficulties with it.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I agree with that completely and totally. When in high school I actually had those issues in mathematics so it is quite intriguing that you put it so perfectly. How do you personally think we could stop this fear?

It very simple and NOT hard to fix.. Get 25 of America's top STEM Professional Societies to write an "open letter" to the academic eggheads in the Ed Depts of colleges --- SCOLDING THEM for making math intimidating. Tell them to teach the one way that always works PRECISELY first. And drop this insane clatter about 5 different ways to think about multiplication or finding the "roots" of equations" in Algebra. AT LEAST until the kids are SOLID in mastering it.. Reserve the freaking "tricks and tips" for tutoring sessions for students that NEED visual aids and crutches..

It's how academics on the lib arts screw up perfectly good basic knowledge all the time. By "over teaching" it...

It's no wonder you cant get EVERY kid thru Trig and Algebra 1 wasting time and making kids fear math... We might also get around the "math is racist" argument -- if black kids got some tutorials is defending themselves against folks that ABUSE statistics. And statistics are abused daily everywhere. This is not EVEN math.. In the 21st century with a totally dysfunctional media -- THIS IS A SURVIVAL TOOL...

But you'll never get there spending so much redundant time to confuse kids on how to do the ESSENTIALS of math..

Why do you think math is intimidating?

I taught high school math for 21 years and NEVER had a student be intimidated. I never knew a college student to be intimidated by math. I think you are imagining things!

With my personal experience, I had 2 years 7-8 grade where my teacher cried every other day and yelled at students by the end of the week if we didn't plot the 12 pages of point plotting and colored them. Most of us did them but when we asked why it was all we did she would get angry. After that, I struggled along with most of my classmates to grasp algebra and other forms of basic mathematics. Now if I do something and learn it I can repeat the solution but then I had to perform the same problem with 3 separate methods on different sections and I started getting lost. I don't have the best memory so I got better with notes and writing equations due to the multiple methods. I needed but when I had to apply 8 different solutions to solve some forms of algebra or even geometry. (it isn't as bad but still occurring) You could easily say I just suck at math and be done with it and that could very well be true but the fear factor and overteaching is something I experienced frequently. That is my experience with math, I have no doubt you were a great teacher but when the stuff like I said occurs it messes up the subject entirely. My girlfriend who had a similar issue gave up her dream to be a biologist because she feels she's not good enough at math even though she passes every course.

In other words, you are a dumbass! There are no 8 different solutions in algebra. I taught it for 21 years. Your self-confidence is the issue, as well as your girlfriend's. There are no excuses why you cannot learn math. You are providing planty you have made up to placate your ego and shift the blame for your poor math skills.

I wouldn't go that far but hey someone has to. I am not talking about an inability to learn just a difficulty with it. You cant get into the world without math skills of some sort of course I had to do it like anyone else. The difference is I am not good at it. This isn't about an inability it is about a fear that goes with it. I am telling you of an experience that caused anxiety in that field. I had a wonderful teacher who helped me later on. If my ego meant so much I wouldn't have shared a once complication. However, if that is what you got out of that fine. I"ve found my place and I am fine currently but that doesn't make the issues others had, go away. While you can say there aren't 8 different ways to do algebra that is exactly what we are being taught or at least what we had been taught in high school.

Bullshit! Stop pissing on my leg and telling me it is raining! You are making shit up, plain and simple.

Not at all -- you're a teacher right? Go pull a math textbook for 4th or 5th grade math...

In fact while you're pulling that textbook -- get some education here...

What Are Different Ways to Multiply? - Video & Lesson Transcript | Study.com

Go look at how PREVALENT this "math torture" is....

I NEVER "make up shit"... And if your leg is wet -- get Depends...

I retired almost 3 years ago, That is a video explaining multiplication that would not be used in a classroom. It illustrates the 4 methods, which are all variations of each other to solve a multiplication problem. Students are NEVER, repeat NEVER required to demonstrate any of these methods to answer a question on a standardized test, which are usually multiple choice. So your pathetic attempt at proving me wrong, failed miserably.

I hate to say it but I took the test 2 years ago. Those solving methods of different variations were on that test.

What test was that?

2 state tests were in preparation for the ACT and the ACT.

Oh, give me a freakin' break! Why are you lying about that?

 

[ClaireH]

.... I think it should be more skill-based till high school and then letting high school be similar to today's college in writing and studying in-depth about advanced and specific topics....

That, more or less, is how it IS now. You need to keep in mind that there are basic level courses, honors course, AP courses and specific electives. That's how it is NOW.

Yes to some degree but in those courses you have a specific time frame to work in. SO if you're in high school mastering the basics of mathematics for 4 years you wont reach the more complex theories until college where you will struggle due to lack of interaction. The question isn't "what if we added this to our system?", it was "if it should be started earlier?". I know how the current system works first hand. I am asking, in your opinion should this be implemented earlier?

High schools in my state have added an option for students who do not want to obtain a regular diploma, or CORE 40, or honor's program, but want a more intensive focus in science and math. These alternative schools also require that the students give weekly presentations, which can develop public speaking skills quite significantly.

You are right that a student can do his or her very best while in secondary school, earn A's and B's, and could still be "behind" when they confront college coursework. I did that btw. I had to take a no-credit math course to catch up, later learning I liked certain maths (statistics for one), and eventually taught high school math lol It was my own fault for avoiding math in high school (taking the minimum required for college) so I had to pay the piper by playing catch-up.

 

[Pythagoras]

I agree with that completely and totally. When in high school I actually had those issues in mathematics so it is quite intriguing that you put it so perfectly. How do you personally think we could stop this fear?

It very simple and NOT hard to fix.. Get 25 of America's top STEM Professional Societies to write an "open letter" to the academic eggheads in the Ed Depts of colleges --- SCOLDING THEM for making math intimidating. Tell them to teach the one way that always works PRECISELY first. And drop this insane clatter about 5 different ways to think about multiplication or finding the "roots" of equations" in Algebra. AT LEAST until the kids are SOLID in mastering it.. Reserve the freaking "tricks and tips" for tutoring sessions for students that NEED visual aids and crutches..

It's how academics on the lib arts screw up perfectly good basic knowledge all the time. By "over teaching" it...

It's no wonder you cant get EVERY kid thru Trig and Algebra 1 wasting time and making kids fear math... We might also get around the "math is racist" argument -- if black kids got some tutorials is defending themselves against folks that ABUSE statistics. And statistics are abused daily everywhere. This is not EVEN math.. In the 21st century with a totally dysfunctional media -- THIS IS A SURVIVAL TOOL...

But you'll never get there spending so much redundant time to confuse kids on how to do the ESSENTIALS of math..

Why do you think math is intimidating?

I taught high school math for 21 years and NEVER had a student be intimidated. I never knew a college student to be intimidated by math. I think you are imagining things!

With my personal experience, I had 2 years 7-8 grade where my teacher cried every other day and yelled at students by the end of the week if we didn't plot the 12 pages of point plotting and colored them. Most of us did them but when we asked why it was all we did she would get angry. After that, I struggled along with most of my classmates to grasp algebra and other forms of basic mathematics. Now if I do something and learn it I can repeat the solution but then I had to perform the same problem with 3 separate methods on different sections and I started getting lost. I don't have the best memory so I got better with notes and writing equations due to the multiple methods. I needed but when I had to apply 8 different solutions to solve some forms of algebra or even geometry. (it isn't as bad but still occurring) You could easily say I just suck at math and be done with it and that could very well be true but the fear factor and overteaching is something I experienced frequently. That is my experience with math, I have no doubt you were a great teacher but when the stuff like I said occurs it messes up the subject entirely. My girlfriend who had a similar issue gave up her dream to be a biologist because she feels she's not good enough at math even though she passes every course.

In other words, you are a dumbass! There are no 8 different solutions in algebra. I taught it for 21 years. Your self-confidence is the issue, as well as your girlfriend's. There are no excuses why you cannot learn math. You are providing planty you have made up to placate your ego and shift the blame for your poor math skills.

I wouldn't go that far but hey someone has to. I am not talking about an inability to learn just a difficulty with it. You cant get into the world without math skills of some sort of course I had to do it like anyone else. The difference is I am not good at it. This isn't about an inability it is about a fear that goes with it. I am telling you of an experience that caused anxiety in that field. I had a wonderful teacher who helped me later on. If my ego meant so much I wouldn't have shared a once complication. However, if that is what you got out of that fine. I"ve found my place and I am fine currently but that doesn't make the issues others had, go away. While you can say there aren't 8 different ways to do algebra that is exactly what we are being taught or at least what we had been taught in high school.

Bullshit! Stop pissing on my leg and telling me it is raining! You are making shit up, plain and simple.

Not at all -- you're a teacher right? Go pull a math textbook for 4th or 5th grade math...

In fact while you're pulling that textbook -- get some education here...

What Are Different Ways to Multiply? - Video & Lesson Transcript | Study.com

Go look at how PREVALENT this "math torture" is....

I NEVER "make up shit"... And if your leg is wet -- get Depends...

I retired almost 3 years ago, That is a video explaining multiplication that would not be used in a classroom. It illustrates the 4 methods, which are all variations of each other to solve a multiplication problem. Students are NEVER, repeat NEVER required to demonstrate any of these methods to answer a question on a standardized test, which are usually multiple choice. So your pathetic attempt at proving me wrong, failed miserably.

Quite simply you're wrong.. I've seen the homework and tests from my emergency remedial tutoring.. In FACT, a couple months ago I went to IEEE (Institute for Electrical and Electronic Engineers) and ask them to place this problem on their education outreach agenda. They were ALREADY aware and working on statements..

When kids get red marks for "being too accurate" while estimating -- you're gonna lose them. Or just INTUITIVELY realizing the teacher is wasting your time making you jump hoops by showing the Matrix Method of Multiplication or the "stick method" -- you're KILLING math education..

You are completely clueless because you are not and never have been a math teacher. True? Those methods are all variation of the standard way to multiply. Sometime students choose to use another method. As I said, they do not exist on standardized tests which are multiple choice. The method used is irrelevant. Math education is just fine for those students who will dedicate the effort and do the work. The OP is too "skeered" to do that apparently.

His ridiculous claim of taking a test two years ago that required those methods is most likely a lie unless he is in the 5th garde right now!

BTW, education departments don't teach math! They teach education courses. I have an undergraduate degree in history. I have a teacher certification for math.

These "concepts" for teaching come OUT of academia.. Pure and simple.. As "strategies" to have methods to reach the 5% of kids who cant get long multiplication or division. These changes I'm telling you about came at LEAST 2 or 3 decades since you got your credentials.. And they've been incorporated like hotcakes into the textbooks and syllabuses for local school boards..

You don't LEARN these methods anywhere ELSE at college EXCEPT thru the Ed Dept.

Did you watch the opening of that video? Bet you didn't... It's HORSESHIT.. And dangerous to our success getting kids to CHOOSE STEM careers..

That video is something you just found on the internet. It is not used in public schools. Thank you very much for your pathetic hysteria.

Again, you you are talking out of your ass. Education departments do not teach math classes. I had to take math classes of my graduate degree. Guess who taught them? The math department.

Those methods are inaccurately called Common Core math. My grandson and granddaughter are all in public schools right now and have been exposed to these methods. They are all variations on the same method. None of them have ever had any difficulties with it.

Actually, the question would be phrased as "which of these (several formats) is in format x?", which is how it was on the ACT. While it is great you were a teacher you apparently were not taught the variations of fear within different contextualizations. Math is not my phobia is the cause of stress and anxiety as it is for several people.