Myth: Religion is one of history's leading causes of war and bloodshed.

[manifold]

I've seen many a simpleton opine that religion is the single greatest cause of war. This is simply not true. Religion is however, one of history's most successful tools for unifying a populace and maintaining public order. And yes, this very element has oft been exploited by leaders of men as a means to arrouse support and justifcation for going to war. But that makes evil those that exploit the tool for evil, not the tool itself. If a man hacked up your family with a hatchet, would you blame the hatchet or the man? On the whole, religion has been an absolute boon for humanity in terms of both survival and prosperity. Without which we may very well not be here talking about it today. To categorically dismiss religion as a scourge of humanity is to betray a marked dearth of wisdom and maturity.

 

[wvulax]

I would blame the man's mental illness or reason for doing it as well.

Islam is one of those religions that has brought prosperity to the world.

Your argument of blaming the man not the hatchet would apply to all the benefits as well. It was the nice man not the tool. If religion is a corruptable tool that can be replaced by other means why wouldn't we want get rid of it?

 

[amrchaos]

I have a different take on this.

Yes--religion is a leading excuse for men to kill each other, but religion itself is not the motivating factor that encourages murder. The motivating factors are envy, greed, desire, pride, and mistrusts of others intentions(fear). Religion is used to gain suport among those who are under the sway of these motivating factors.

I guess I am not being a good Atheists today. Maybe It is because I am a little groggy still, what do you guys think?

 

[manifold]

Your argument of blaming the man not the hatchet would apply to all the benefits as well. It was the nice man not the tool.

Agreed

If religion is a corruptable tool that can be replaced by other means why wouldn't we want get rid of it?

Can you give me an example of other means that would be equally beneficial and at the same time less corruptable?

 

[manifold]

I have a different take on this.

Yes--religion is a leading excuse for men to kill each other, but religion itself is not the motivating factor that encourages murder. The motivating factors are envy, greed, desire, pride, and mistrusts of others intentions(fear). Religion is used to gain suport among those who are under the sway of these motivating factors.

I don't think this take is all that different actually. Or in other words, I agree.

 

[Al Gunn]

All religions are violent, jihad, crusade... sanctioned war by the clergy or their books. It's all about subjugating women and conquering/converting as much land, money and people as possible. Has nothing to do with greed of man... it's the religion that's greedy.

 

[wvulax]

religion is a source of law and rules, but we have governments now.

one of the benefits you vaguely referred to has to be education, spread of knowledge. Monks made books, Islam started madras, etc.. Not only is the best technical university not religious, MIT, but madras are used more for brainwashing and indoctrination centers now. Many private schools are religious and they give a good education, but I would argue that's because they were there first. Liberty university is an example of a modern religious institution that failed. It still exists, but when falwell owned it, the school went bankrupt. btw I plan to boycott the game they have with WVU not that it matters at all.

I'm not saying that we should eliminate religion all together because seriously i love that peppermint bark that Ghiradelis comes out with at christmas. I just don't want to be as religious as the US is. I don't know how they would gauge this, but I have heard that we're they most religious western nation. I would agree with this statement because some of the biggest issues in politics are abortion, evolution/creationism, gay marriage, and they're all religiously based arguments.

 

[Ravi]

Your title is wrong, religion is one of history's leading causes of war and bloodshed.

Your OP is also wrong, I don't recall anyone saying it is the single greatest cause of war.

Not to mention the opposing messages.

 

[manifold]

religion is a source of law and rules, but we have governments now.

Are you suggesting that governments are less corruptable?

Or even equally beneficial?

 

[tigerbob]

I have a different take on this.

Yes--religion is a leading excuse for men to kill each other, but religion itself is not the motivating factor that encourages murder. The motivating factors are envy, greed, desire, pride, and mistrusts of others intentions(fear). Religion is used to gain suport among those who are under the sway of these motivating factors.

I guess I am not being a good Atheists today. Maybe It is because I am a little groggy still, what do you guys think?

I agree with you. A leading "excuse" or "reason" for war is, for my money, somewhat different to a leading "cause" of war. Religion should be a force for good. It is the manner in which it is twisted by certain adherents (of all faiths) to suit their own ends that is the problem.

 

[strollingbones]

then what has been the leading cause of death in the world....it would have to be territorial rights....moving ethnic groups enslave or killed the group on the land they wanted....nothing has really changed about that now has it? pirates exist to this day. greed, lust are two of the 7 deadly sins

religion as a uniting factor..i just dont see that...seems most churches here will split over anything.

 

[tigerbob]

then what has been the leading cause of death in the world....it would have to be territorial rights....moving ethnic groups enslave or killed the group on the land they wanted....nothing has really changed about that now has it? pirates exist to this day. greed, lust are two of the 7 deadly sins

religion as a uniting factor..i just dont see that...seems most churches here will split over anything.

In many cases Churches will debate the sex of angels endlessly, it is true.

However, ask yourself how much is given (either financially or of peoples' time every year) by members of religious groups. Then ask how many people would suffer if that giving was suddenly taken away. That's one of the forces for good I was talking about.

 

[editec]

Religion is one of history's leading causes of war and bloodshed.

No it isn't. No even close.

Not even if one include every declared religious war and actually believed that those wars were actually motivated by religious conviction.

Such statements about how religion was the primary cause of human conflict are made by people with a childish hardon about religion who also don't have a very firm grasp of world history.

The vast majority of wars are wars for territory and booty, power and control, plain and simple.

Even the so-called religious wars (the Christian crusades and the Islamic expansion) are more typically motivated by more earthly motives than pleasing GOD.

And all those so-called wars of religion are but a small (a very small) number of all known conflicts compared to all the wars that have occurred that are known by history.

You Darwin thumping fundamentalists are at least as ignorant as the fundamentalist believers you have such contempt for.

You think you know religion? You clearly don't

You think you know history? You clearly don't.

What you know is that you have a hard-on for religion and will find any excuse to attack it.

It's pathetic really.

 

[wvulax]

I'd say at the very least it has the same level of service of a religious community. The government has to try to live up to the people's expectations or at least appear to do so. The government has rules that protect people from unfair trials and abuse. Religions have no checks and their word is final. All the power lies in the hands of the Ayatollah or Pope.

Our justice system isn't perfect by any means but I would argue it's better than a theocracy.

 

[Ravi]

Strawman 0
Editec 1

 

[Amanda]

I've always heard the reason for war is money. If you follow the reasoning back to the source you always find money. Yes, religion is used to unite people to a cause, but it isn't the cause, just a tool that is used.

 

[manifold]

Our justice system isn't perfect by any means but I would argue it's better than a theocracy.

No argument on that point. But you suggested, or at least implied, that governments can effectively replace religion. As far as I can see, you have not yet offered a reasoned defense of this opinion. I don't say that to be critical, just that I don't buy it, at least not until you sell it a little better.

 

[manifold]

Religion is one of history's leading causes of war and bloodshed.

No it isn't. No even close.

Not even if one include every declared religious war and actually believed that those wars were actually motivated by religious conviction.

Such statements about how religion was the primary cause of human conflict are made by people with a childish hardon about religion who also don't have a very firm grasp of world history.

The vast majority of wars are wars for territory and booty, power and control, plain and simple.

Even the so-called religious wars (the Christian crusades and the Islamic expansion) are more typically motivated by more earthly motives than pleasing GOD.

And all those so-called wars of religion are but a small (a very small) number of all known conflicts compared to all the wars that have occurred that are known by history.

You Darwin thumping fundamentalists are at least as ignorant as the fundamentalist believers you have such contempt for.

You think you know religion? You clearly don't

You think you know history? You clearly don't.

What you know is that you have a hard-on for religion and will find any excuse to attack it.

It's pathetic really.

Agreed. Not even close as you say, not even close.

 

[Ravi]

Ah, you all mix up religion and God.

btw, if you believe in God then he is the one and only cause of war.

 

[JBeukema]

Are you suggesting that governments are less corruptable?

governments of men can be challenged

religions give men complexes so they are too scared to challenge

Strawman 0
Editec 1

Learn what a strawman is before tou use the term

And the fact remains that no matter the myriad reasons a leader declares war , the common man has fought and died more for his gods than for any other reason