Muslim attitudes towards Jews

[dickdear2003]

Dr.Mahatir accuses the Jews of 'inventing' democracy and human rights.....

Nothing could denigrate muslim thought more than

a. such a stupid and bald-faced lie

b. the idea that a muslim would think it shameful to invent
democracy and human rights


Mahatir...a successful leader and politician who is also a medical
doctor seems to lose his rationality when discussing Jews...

Do you supposs it is the teachings of the Koran????

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by dickdear2003
Do you supposs it is the teachings of the Koran????

Wouldn't surpise me in the slightest bit.

 

[Bry]

Dr.Mahatir accuses the Jews of 'inventing' democracy and human rights.....

Could you provide a link to let us know what you're talking about?

As for the teachings of the Koran, I wouldn't know. Did you have some specific passage from the Koran in mind?

Even the Bahais, the most recent off-shoot in the line of Judeo-Christian religions, and known for their tolerance, show many aspects in their religious writings of being profoundly sexist (for example). Any particular reason you would like to impugn whole sale the holy text of Islam without even making specific references?

Bry

 

[dickdear2003]

Dear Bry

I make reference to the speech of Dr. Matahir Mohammed, Prime Minister of Malasia to the Islamic Organization Conference in Kuala Lumpur last week

In it, he accussed Jews of inventing

Communism Socialism Democracy Human Rights

so as to deflect danger away from themselves.

The good doctor also made the statement that the Jews control the world...

And he chided the Muslim world for not emulating the Jews ability to think...and therefor 'defeat' the Muslim world (Whatever that means)...

These remarks are so far out. that one wonders where an erudite and educated person such as the good doctor could have gotten them,.,,hence my comment about the Koran.

It was a generalized comment... since so much of the drivel from Muslim leaders in the world is so preposterous, hateful, denigrating to civilization and so anit-humanity... and the only common thread I see tying it all together would be the Koran.

 

[ajwps]

The question in the moronic statements of one Dr. Matahir Mohammed, Prime Minister of Malasia to the Islamic Organization Conference in Kuala Lumpur concering the Jewish people has a definite basis in the Koran. The term used by Islam is Al-Taqiyya or permitted deception or lying to protect the Koran and Allah.

The reality that western civilization believes that Islam is basically a peaceful religion is based on what the Muslim people relate to the infidels. There is really no one who reads the Koran or its actual translation by Islamics themselves. Sura (Chapter 9 One Islamic Koran site can be found at http://db.islamicity.com:81/quran/F...m&-error=error.htm&ayat_text=9:5&-max=7&-find
------------------------------------------------------
Islam uses lies and deception as permitted by the Koran at:

http://www.ci-ce-ct.com/Feature articles/02-12-2002.asp

Taqiyyah (essentially means to lie to hide the truth)
1.) The believe in Taqiyya.
2.) This means 'Holy Deception'.
3.) To believe in something but express/ say something else.
4.) They say 9-10th of Deen is Taqiyya.
5.) They say, he who has no Taqiyya has no deen.
6.) There is a great reward in Lying.
7.) They say the great Imams Practised 'Taqiyya'.
8.) They say Alli (R.A), Hassan (R.A), Hussain(R.A) practiced 'Taqiyya'.
9.) They say Hussein (R.A) practiced 'Taqiyya'.
10.) Perorm Jamaah salaat with Sunni's.
11.) Visit their sick .
12.) Perform their Janazah Salaat.

References:
(1.) Usul -e- Kafi. (2.) Ibid. (3.) Ibid. (4.) Ibid. (5.) Ibid. (6.) Ibid. (7.) Islaamic Goverment P35/ 133 .(8.) Ibid. (9.) Ibid. (10.) Usul -e- Kafi. (11.) Ibid.(12.) Ibid.

 

[Micho]

Dr.Mahatir accuses the Jews of 'inventing' democracy and human rights.....

Nothing could denigrate muslim thought more than

a. such a stupid and bald-faced lie

b. the idea that a muslim would think it shameful to invent
democracy and human rights


Mahatir...a successful leader and politician who is also a medical
doctor seems to lose his rationality when discussing Jews...

Do you supposs it is the teachings of the Koran????

Their hatred for human rights democracy goes hand in hand with the pseudo "Arab spring." Also funny were the years the Satanic Qaddafi's chairing Human Rights rep. at the UN...

 

[kvetch]

Dr.Mahatir accuses the Jews of 'inventing' democracy and human rights.....

Could you provide a link to let us know what you're talking about?

As for the teachings of the Koran, I wouldn't know. Did you have some specific passage from the Koran in mind?

Even the Bahais, the most recent off-shoot in the line of Judeo-Christian religions, and known for their tolerance, show many aspects in their religious writings of being profoundly sexist (for example). Any particular reason you would like to impugn whole sale the holy text of Islam without even making specific references?

Bry

the bahais originated in shia Iran about 150 years ago....

not judeo christian at all.................islam is much closer to judaism than christianity anyways

but on the whole a tolerant bunch

 

[irosie91]

Dr.Mahatir accuses the Jews of 'inventing' democracy and human rights.....

Could you provide a link to let us know what you're talking about?

As for the teachings of the Koran, I wouldn't know. Did you have some specific passage from the Koran in mind?

Even the Bahais, the most recent off-shoot in the line of Judeo-Christian religions, and known for their tolerance, show many aspects in their religious writings of being profoundly sexist (for example). Any particular reason you would like to impugn whole sale the holy text of Islam without even making specific references?

Bry

Bry----regarding the koran---I think -I am a bit more fortunate than most people who post here.
I read the koran more than 40 years ago with an absolutely unbiased mind
At that time I was so naive about islam that I thought the lines that
attributed the sacrifice of a son by abraham----to ISHMAEL as victim
were a printing error. I showed the book to a pakistani doctor who
was working in the hospital where I had my little "part time weekend while in
college job" and told him he should notify the publisher of its printing
errors. -------He looked at the book ---the PICTHALL translation, and said---"no
this is a very good translation" After that I learned ---and learned some more
about islam and ITS victims. In fact my husband was born in a shariah
adherent country.

I never QUOTE the koran-----it is a scriptural writing and the only
people equipped to interpret scriptural writings are the SCHOLARS
thereof----who can not only read it in the original but also KNOW
its symbols and poetic allusions. The way to know islam is to know
SHARIAH LAW----which is the islamic scholarly interpretation of the
koran-----also good ---is to know the FATWAHS of AL AZHAR UNIVERSITY
which most sunni muslims consider the authority on the koran. Unfortunately
the AL AZHAR fatwah internet page does not seem to be online
anymore--------

the fact is that there is an ANTIPATHY so the concept of
"democracy" frequently expressed by islamic clerics. It is
also a fact that the form or government advocated in islamic
ideology is a CALIPHATE in which the ruler (caliph) is considered
a successor to muhummad-----ie part of a kind of ROYAL LINE
and who ----according to the ideology----speaks for "allah"----thus
crossing the "caliph" is blasphemy. This ideology has led to
laws in some muslim countries which render criticism of the
government----a capital crime Feel free to ask questions but
it is silly for you to demand LINE AND VERSE QUOTATIONS
FROM THE KORAN regarding any statement a person makes
about islam----

 

[kvetch]

Dr.Mahatir accuses the Jews of 'inventing' democracy and human rights.....

Could you provide a link to let us know what you're talking about?

As for the teachings of the Koran, I wouldn't know. Did you have some specific passage from the Koran in mind?

Even the Bahais, the most recent off-shoot in the line of Judeo-Christian religions, and known for their tolerance, show many aspects in their religious writings of being profoundly sexist (for example). Any particular reason you would like to impugn whole sale the holy text of Islam without even making specific references?

Bry

Bry----regarding the koran---I think -I am a bit more fortunate than most people who post here.
I read the koran more than 40 years ago with an absolutely unbiased mind
At that time I was so naive about islam that I thought the lines that
attributed the sacrifice of a son by abraham----to ISHMAEL as victim
were a printing error. I showed the book to a pakistani doctor who
was working in the hospital where I had my little "part time weekend while in
college job" and told him he should notify the publisher of its printing
errors. -------He looked at the book ---the PICTHALL translation, and said---"no
this is a very good translation" After that I learned ---and learned some more
about islam and ITS victims. In fact my husband was born in a shariah
adherent country.

I never QUOTE the koran-----it is a scriptural writing and the only
people equipped to interpret scriptural writings are the SCHOLARS
thereof----who can not only read it in the original but also KNOW
its symbols and poetic allusions. The way to know islam is to know
SHARIAH LAW----which is the islamic scholarly interpretation of the
koran-----also good ---is to know the FATWAHS of AL AZHAR UNIVERSITY
which most sunni muslims consider the authority on the koran. Unfortunately
the AL AZHAR fatwah internet page does not seem to be online
anymore--------

the fact is that there is an ANTIPATHY so the concept of
"democracy" frequently expressed by islamic clerics. It is
also a fact that the form or government advocated in islamic
ideology is a CALIPHATE in which the ruler (caliph) is considered
a successor to muhummad-----ie part of a kind of ROYAL LINE
and who ----according to the ideology----speaks for "allah"----thus
crossing the "caliph" is blasphemy. This ideology has led to
laws in some muslim countries which render criticism of the
government----a capital crime Feel free to ask questions but
it is silly for you to demand LINE AND VERSE QUOTATIONS
FROM THE KORAN regarding any statement a person makes
about islam----

what a great post, rosie!!

now why can't you use that decent scholarly language all the time

you would be so much more effective here if only you did, sweetie

btw, where are the bits of judaism and christianity that support democracy; try criticisin the pope in the church

they have both been just as bad, haven't they

they have had to be reined in and reformed, which is still to happen in islam as you say

 

[irosie91]

don't try to stroke me SCHMUCK (sweetie)

 

[kvetch]

don't try to stroke me SCHMUCK (sweetie)

i'm actually genuinely and truly tryin to help you share the best of you with the folx here

now by insultin me and reverting to jihadi lingo you have just turned off our new friends here who you were so civil to

do you have jihadi proto neo crypto quasi meccalist tarretz syndrome or what?

 

[irosie91]

Gilles de la TOURETTE was a student of the great CHARCOT----(remember him?-----he broke the chains at the SALPETREIERE HOSPITAL) ok nevermind------and stop using words that you do not know

 

[Bry]

I am mystified as to why anyone would want to resurrect a 10-year old thread that never went anywhere anyway. Nonetheless:

iRosie: thanks for your somewhat thoughtful if somewhat late response. I still nearly ten years later confess my utter ignorance on the subject. I really should remedy that. It does seem to me, in spite of what you say, that some Muslims are more willing to engage in a substantive conversation about how they understand their own religion, and that there is significant variation in how strictly individuals choose to express observance. Also, there does seem to be genuine interest in democratic forms of government in some quarters of the Muslim world. I think you are a bit hard on me when you say I was silly for"demanding" a context for the remarks of another poster who is not even Muslim but who I like to believe had more than base bigotry to support his crass generalizations. Since the creation of Israel, the US has consistently aligned itself against Muslim interests, typically supporting oppressive authoritarian regimes whenever it supported their own perceived interests. I think we should not be surprised by the hyperbolic ANTIPATHY generated by all things related to the US / Israel. It has a very rational explanation, not simply a blind faith in their priestly class.
Kvetch: I should have said Abrahamism rather than Judeo-Christian, though the latter is frequently used as a synonym for the former, the former is more precise.

 

[irosie91]

Bry based on your post----I am going to guess that you are a muslim. My "guess" is based on my extensive acquaintance with muslims to some extent---based on your comment

"Since the creation of Israel, the US has consistently aligned itself against Muslim interests,"

now the CHALLENGE >>>
WHAT ARE "MUSLIM INTERESTS" ????

for the record----I am fully aware of the VARIABILITY in observance of religious law and custom amongst muslims----but I am also aware of a COMMONALITY in sentiment amongst muslims regarding "THE GLORY OF ISLAM" regardless of level of "piety"

 

[High_Gravity]

Why was this bullshit thread resurrected?

 

[irosie91]

bullshit is OUR CUP OF TEA------here on this board

 

[High_Gravity]

bullshit is OUR CUP OF TEA------here on this board

Apparently so.

 

[kvetch]

Why was this bullshit thread resurrected?

you aint so belligerent and dont sound drunk either

sober and peaceful by the standards of this crazy zoo!

 

[eots]

Dr.Mahatir accuses the Jews of 'inventing' democracy and human rights.....

Nothing could denigrate muslim thought more than

a. such a stupid and bald-faced lie

b. the idea that a muslim would think it shameful to invent
democracy and human rights


Mahatir...a successful leader and politician who is also a medical
doctor seems to lose his rationality when discussing Jews...

Do you supposs it is the teachings of the Koran????

so this one man speaks for all Muslims ?

 

[High_Gravity]

Why was this bullshit thread resurrected?

you aint so belligerent and dont sound drunk either

sober and peaceful by the standards of this crazy zoo!

Thank you!