Multiple states had repubs send in fake cerification documenrs

[Delldude]

Rachel Maddow has been doing an excellent job of covering this for a few days. I first heard about this from her.

Mac1958 said:
It's all coming out. The whole thing.

Rachael Maddow.....?

How about Byron York.

THE DEMOCRATIC SCANDAL DU JOUR. You probably haven't heard of this controversy unless you spend time in the fever swamps of MSNBC or the Twitter feeds of Democratic provocateurs. Nevertheless, some veterans of the Resistance are getting very excited over what they see as an enormous new scandal — what one calls "attempted election fraud on a massive scale" — involving former President Donald Trump's refusal to accept the result of the 2020 election.
Here's the short version: Trump supporters in a few states — Georgia, Arizona, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Michigan, and New Mexico — were so brazen that in the days before Dec. 14, 2020, when the Electoral College voted to confirm Joe Biden's victory, they actually forged documents falsely purporting to be Electoral College results for Trump and sent them to the appropriate authorities in Washington and in their home states. They then planned to use the forgeries to steal the election on Jan. 6, 2021. All the while, they hoped no one would notice.
It was a "previously unknown, mysteriously coordinated effort to have Republicans in multiple states forge election documents after the last election and present themselves as fake electors to the Electoral College," MSNBC's Rachel Maddow said recently. In an earlier program, referring specifically to Wisconsin, she said, "The fraudulent electors met in a concerted effort to ensure they would be mistaken, as a result of their deliberate forgery and fraud, for Wisconsin's legitimate presidential electors chosen by the mechanism prescribed under the U.S. Constitution and Wisconsin law."

The reality is a little less exciting than that. It's actually a lot less exciting than that.

First of all, what the Republicans were doing was not a secret. They announced it. They invited the press to cover it. They tweeted about what they did. There were news accounts of it. How Rachel Maddow came to believe it was "previously unknown" is not clear.

So again, you might think this was all fantasy. It had zero chance of succeeding. But there was no secrecy involved and no claims that the electors chosen were the real electors. There was only the explanation that if Trump won his lawsuits, and a court threw out the election results, then the Trump electors would be available.


There was simply no fraud involved. But Maddow and others also accuse the Republicans of forgery. What about that?

Byron York's Daily Memo: The Democratic scandal du jour

 

[Chillicothe]

Good poster LennyPartiv offers us this:

"If the system had worked, the election would not have been stolen by the Democrats."

Which, if you have curated to any degree Lenny's posting collection, well, you would know that the above would argue that if the election had not been stolen, Lenny and PillowBoy would have no need to increase taxes (Lenny's volunteerism there).....no need, to add 297,810,000 more prison cells to America's already robust imprisonment infrastructure.

But alas, per PillowBoy and Lenny it WAS stolen......hence, let's get crackin' on arresting, trying, convicting, and imprisoning the balance of the 300,000,000* American who are not already in jail.



*of the 300m Lenny & Pillow wish to jail, not all of them will require full sized, adult-sized jails. So there should be some cost savings there. After all, to get all 300,000,000 million fraudsters.....L&P will have to dip into the American population of, of......well, of children 7 to 15yrs old.

Irregardless, if any of those 7yr olds voted in 2020 or not.

IMHO

 

[JimH52]

This batch of scum could see some jail time

If they go unpunished...it will be a travesty. To ignore an attack on democracy like this....would encourage future treasonous efforts.

trump and his criminal associates think they are above the rule of law. The DOJ needs to show them that they are not.

 

[Nostra]

If they go unpunished...it will be a travesty. To ignore an attack on democracy like this....would encourage future treasonous efforts.

trump and his criminal associates think they are above the rule of law. The DOJ needs to show them that they are not.

Dude, they were caught. The system works.

Unclench your pearls.

 

[Chillicothe]

"Dude, they were caught. The system works. Unclench your pearls"

Well, I can't speak to good poster Nostra's pearls, or anyone else's for that matter; however, I am not wholly convinced poster Nostra's assertion of "they were caught" is absolutely true.

Now, to be sure, I do hope they have "been caught".....but it appears to me, at this point, that they have been "accused".....but not arrested, not charged, not convicted. That cake is baking, it seems.

So we can only hope.
Regardless, if you wear Nostra's pearls, or he does, accountability is what we are after.
Not jewelry.

IMHO

 

[BULLDOG]

Rachael Maddow.....?

How about Byron York.





Byron York's Daily Memo: The Democratic scandal du jour

Well, that just shows how stupid the trump party is. Kinda like bank robbers who announced they were going to try to rob a bank. The documents sent didn't say they wanted to be electoral collage electors, or that they hoped their fake votes would be accepted. They portrayed themselves as the legitimate item. It followed the pattern of every coup that ever happened. Illegitimate actors publicly claimed authority they didn't have,

 

[Delldude]

Well, that just shows how stupid the trump party is. Kinda like bank robbers who announced they were going to try to rob a bank. The documents sent didn't say they wanted to be electoral collage electors, or that they hoped their fake votes would be accepted. They portrayed themselves as the legitimate item. It followed the pattern of every coup that ever happened. Illegitimate actors publicly claimed authority they didn't have,

So you just told me you haven't read the article in its entirety, or you wouldn't have made those statements..

Why am I not surprised?

 

[Lesh]

Again. These were forgeries.

They used the state seal without authorization.

This as legitimate as 12 guys from the local barber shop sending in a letter claiming that THEY are the legal electors and photoshopping the state seal onto the letter.

 

[Nostra]

Again. These were forgeries.

They used the state seal without authorization.

This as legitimate as 12 guys from the local barber shop sending in a letter claiming that THEY are the legal electors and photoshopping the state seal onto the letter.

They were caught. The system works.

Nothing to see here.

 

[Lesh]

They were caught. The system works.

Nothing to see here.

It worked this time...

But we need to find out the how and why of it.

numerous groups in numerous states did this with nearly identical letters.

Someone put them up to it and THAT needs to be exposed

More that that...scumbag GOP legislators tried to use these letters to overturn the election

 

[Nostra]

It worked this time...

But we need to find out the how and why of it.

numerous groups in numerous states did this with nearly identical letters.

Someone put them up to it and THAT needs to be exposed

More that that...scumbag GOP legislators tried to use these letters to overturn the election

Nah. Nothing needs to be looked into. Just move on.

The system worked.

 

[Lesh]

Nah. Nothing needs to be looked into. Just move on.

The system worked.

So a botched bank robbery should not be investigated...because it was unsuccessful?

 

[Delldude]

Again. These were forgeries.

They used the state seal without authorization.

This as legitimate as 12 guys from the local barber shop sending in a letter claiming that THEY are the legal electors and photoshopping the state seal onto the letter.

Byron York:

So again, you might think this was all fantasy. It had zero chance of succeeding. But there was no secrecy involved and no claims that the electors chosen were the real electors. There was only the explanation that if Trump won his lawsuits, and a court threw out the election results, then the Trump electors would be available.


There was simply no fraud involved. But Maddow and others also accuse the Republicans of forgery. What about that?


The charge arises from the fact that the documents the Republicans created had some of the same wording as the documents signed by the winning Biden electors. For example, one page of the Georgia slate of electors said, "We, the undersigned, being the duly elected and qualified electors for president and vice president of the United States of America from the state of Georgia, do hereby certify the following ..." Of course, they were not "duly elected" electors. They were sending in their votes in case, as a result of court action, they became the duly elected electors.

Some states made explicit reference to the contingent nature of the electors. For example, the New Mexico documents said, "We, the undersigned, on the understanding that it might later be determined that we are the duly elected and qualified electors for president and vice president of the United States of America from the state of New Mexico, do hereby certify the following ..." That made it much more explicit that the document was contingent, not an actual claim to be the genuine electors at that moment.

I asked Shafer why he did not choose some sort of contingency language — why he chose instead to use the exact language of the winner's electoral slate. Why not change the forms a bit to indicate that it was a provisional slate of electors? "We completed the forms exactly as prescribed by law," Shafer said. "We did not alter them because we were told that any alterations would be grounds for dismissing the lawsuit for lack of available remedy."

Whatever it was, it was not a forgery. But in the end, it all depended on the entirely unrealistic hope that Trump would somehow succeed in court. It wasn't going to happen. The slates of electors were contingent on an event that did not occur. And the signers of those slates knew that. For whatever reason — hope, belief in the cause, pressure from GOP voters, whatever — they signed the slates. It wasn't secret. It wasn't fraud. It wasn't forgery.

 

[Lesh]

Whatever it was, it was not a forgery.

Using the state seal without authorization makes it a forgery

 

[Nostra]

So a botched bank robbery should not be investigated...because it was unsuccessful?

Didn't say that. Prosecute them.

But there is no need to try to figure out how this happened, or how to prevent it in the future because the system worked.

Move on.

 

[Delldude]

Using the state seal without authorization makes it a forgery

And with that, you are wrong.

 

[Delldude]

Using the state seal without authorization makes it a forgery

"We completed the forms exactly as prescribed by law," Shafer said. "We did not alter them because we were told that any alterations would be grounds for dismissing the lawsuit for lack of available remedy."

 

[Lesh]

"We completed the forms exactly as prescribed by law," Shafer said. "We did not alter them because we were told that any alterations would be grounds for dismissing the lawsuit for lack of available remedy."

So he claims.

 

[bripat9643]

Fake Documents Declaring Trump and Pence the 2020 Winners Sent to but Rejected by National Archives: Report

According to <em>Politico</em>, the false certificates of ascertainment were sent from Arizona and Michigan groups but they were instead turned over to the Jan. 6 congressional committee

people.com

This is a violation of state law and could be federal violations. This seems to have been a coordinated effort. Now who could have coordinated this?

Fake News.

 

[BULLDOG]

So you just told me you haven't read the article in its entirety, or you wouldn't have made those statements..

Why am I not surprised?

I read the bullshit article. As I said before, every coup attempt that ever happened had illegitimate actors claiming authority they didn't have to take control of the actions of a government.