Most Conservatives Still Believe The Civil War Wasn't Over Slavery

[Syriusly]

Remember- no one here is every defending slavery- or their slave owners- they are just pissed off at Lincoln for going to war to "save the union" rather than to end slavery, terminating certain inalienable rights to restrain and crush any criticism of his actions, sent his military on a massacre mission that pillaged, raped, murdered, and destroyed the property of innocent, NON-SLAVE OWNING civilian women and children .

Fixed it for you.

It is possible to both be glad that slavery ended and critical of certain actions taken that may or may not have furthered that end. You know that, right?

Of course you will trust whatever citation you can find on the internet that supports your little historical prejudices.

I gave you the citation- I am not shocked you don't pursue the facts.

Even if you are right, you were shitting on people who believed that the Emancipation Proclamation didn't free slaves when the ******* HISTORY CHANNEL said the same thing.

No- I am shitting on you for your willful ignorance.

 

[Mike Dwight]

OK what a strange little argument, the Emancipation Proclomation was designed and also did free slaves. Do you all really believe they sat on their 1990's computers and came to some fault forum conclusions and went to war over it? They really didn't trust each other. Lincoln asked for troops from these southern states to ensure "national security" in which that refusal was more like the secession, I've seen repeatedly, I like the one from Stonewall Jackson in the Gods Generals movie, Lincoln has asked for X battalions, tell him we have raised them.

 

[Avatar4321]

It is despicable

Would have been better to just abandon slavery like other nations did

I don't disagree, but do you really believe there would never have been a war? Do you honestly believe that no state would attempt to leave the union, as they had threatened prior to 1860?

The entire western world ended slavery without a shot fired, with one notable exception. Something Lincoln Cultists never consider.

My thinking is if not for Dishonest Abe, we too would have ended slavery without a shot fired.

Something the Confederate cultists never consider is as the rest of the Western world was ending slavery and emancipating their slaves- the Confederates sought to prevent that by trying to permanently protect their legal slavery by leaving the United States- and then going to war to protect their state's 'rights' to own slaves.

My thinking if it were not for the racist Confederates who tried to ensure their ownership of slaves- that in the United States slavery would have ended- eventually- like maybe after another generation or two or three of black slaves in America.

Or there might still be black slaves sweeping the streets of Atlanta.

Democrats never were smart

Yeah- this Democrat- not smart for defending the actions of the Republican President whose actions preserved the Union and resulted in the end of slavery in the United States.

I can take that criticism.

I meant the Democrats who seceded from the union to begin with

 

[Pogo]

I don't disagree, but do you really believe there would never have been a war? Do you honestly believe that no state would attempt to leave the union, as they had threatened prior to 1860?

The entire western world ended slavery without a shot fired, with one notable exception. Something Lincoln Cultists never consider.

My thinking is if not for Dishonest Abe, we too would have ended slavery without a shot fired.

Something the Confederate cultists never consider is as the rest of the Western world was ending slavery and emancipating their slaves- the Confederates sought to prevent that by trying to permanently protect their legal slavery by leaving the United States- and then going to war to protect their state's 'rights' to own slaves.

My thinking if it were not for the racist Confederates who tried to ensure their ownership of slaves- that in the United States slavery would have ended- eventually- like maybe after another generation or two or three of black slaves in America.

Or there might still be black slaves sweeping the streets of Atlanta.

Democrats never were smart

Yeah- this Democrat- not smart for defending the actions of the Republican President whose actions preserved the Union and resulted in the end of slavery in the United States.

I can take that criticism.

I meant the Democrats who seceded from the union to begin with

"Democrats" didn't secede from the Union, nor could they. States seceded.

You can't secede personally. If you did it would be called "divorce".

 

[Syriusly]

I don't disagree, but do you really believe there would never have been a war? Do you honestly believe that no state would attempt to leave the union, as they had threatened prior to 1860?

The entire western world ended slavery without a shot fired, with one notable exception. Something Lincoln Cultists never consider.

My thinking is if not for Dishonest Abe, we too would have ended slavery without a shot fired.

Something the Confederate cultists never consider is as the rest of the Western world was ending slavery and emancipating their slaves- the Confederates sought to prevent that by trying to permanently protect their legal slavery by leaving the United States- and then going to war to protect their state's 'rights' to own slaves.

My thinking if it were not for the racist Confederates who tried to ensure their ownership of slaves- that in the United States slavery would have ended- eventually- like maybe after another generation or two or three of black slaves in America.

Or there might still be black slaves sweeping the streets of Atlanta.

Democrats never were smart

Yeah- this Democrat- not smart for defending the actions of the Republican President whose actions preserved the Union and resulted in the end of slavery in the United States.

I can take that criticism.

I meant the Democrats who seceded from the union to begin with

Oh so not the Democrats who didn't secede from the Union?

Who I think are dumb are the modern Republicans waving a Confederate flag to glorify the Confederate Slave States.

What an insult to Lincoln!

 

[Syriusly]

The entire western world ended slavery without a shot fired, with one notable exception. Something Lincoln Cultists never consider.

My thinking is if not for Dishonest Abe, we too would have ended slavery without a shot fired.

Something the Confederate cultists never consider is as the rest of the Western world was ending slavery and emancipating their slaves- the Confederates sought to prevent that by trying to permanently protect their legal slavery by leaving the United States- and then going to war to protect their state's 'rights' to own slaves.

My thinking if it were not for the racist Confederates who tried to ensure their ownership of slaves- that in the United States slavery would have ended- eventually- like maybe after another generation or two or three of black slaves in America.

Or there might still be black slaves sweeping the streets of Atlanta.

Democrats never were smart

Yeah- this Democrat- not smart for defending the actions of the Republican President whose actions preserved the Union and resulted in the end of slavery in the United States.

I can take that criticism.

I meant the Democrats who seceded from the union to begin with

"Democrats" didn't secede from the Union, nor could they. States seceded.

You can't secede personally. If you did it would be called "divorce".

Nor were there Democrats in the Confederacy- there was no political party in the Confederacy.

 

[OKTexas]

It wasn't a bill, it was an illegal proclamation made by Lincoln. Slavery wasn't officially abolished until the passage of the 13th Amendment.


.

True the Emancipation Proclamation wasn't made until 1863- but illegal?

Never was declared so- and Lincoln carefully worded it to be within his authority as the Commander in Chief-

Just the lovers of the Rebel Slave states are pissed off that Lincoln told their slaves that they would be freed.

There is nothing in the Constitution that allows the commander in chief to unilaterally write laws. Slavery was legal, he had no authority to declare it otherwise, by proclamation.

I think the difference is the EP wasn't a "law" of the United States. It was a military order effective in occupied war territory (the Confederacy had by definition left the United States).

The EP did not "declare slavery illegal". It only declared that those who had been slaves in certain occupied territory were freed of their status. Actually abolition of Slavery was effected by the 13th Amendment in December of 1865, at which time none of the seceded states had been readmitted yet.

Don't let the facts intrude on this Confederate love fest.

The Emancipation Proclamation is an odd document to watch the contards twist themselves into pretzels about.

You have the one side who proudly lie that the Emancipation Proclamation didn't free a single slave- and that is of course false- but they make the lie to diminish the importance of it.

Then you have the other group which proclaims the EP was illegal- deftly ignoring the actual wording of the EP and the legal argument behind it.

And then you have those who make both claims- because of course they want to argue that a) Lincoln did nothing to free any slaves- and it was illegal for him to to it!

OKT's trying to use weasel words to first have it both ways, and then deny he wanted to have it the way that got busted.

It's a popular sport here. Where nobody ever wins.

I noticed you ran away with no rebuttal, did you run out of spin?


.

 

[del]

The History Channel is wrong.

I will trust the History Channel, not you.

that would not surprise anyone

 

[MaryL]

Civil War still divides Americans

So after 150 years, the majority of conservatives still believe the Civil War wasn't over slavery?

Why is this? Why do they believe the "States Rights" claim is sufficient enough to shield them from the fact that -- those states rights were those states preserving the right to maintain slavery -- so either way you slice it, the civil war was over slavery --


This is why whenever I see a conservative twisting themselves into pretzels to claim otherwise --- it makes their subsequent claims of not being racist look foolish.


Next time conservatives want to pretend that the Civil War wasn't over slavery -- they better travel back in time and tell all of those southern states to stop telling everyone it was over slavery

It was about slavery. I mean why would the south succeed from the union when the feds coincidentally wanted to end slavery? This coincidentally reminds me of certain modern states that want to ignore US FEDERAL immigration laws (and despite the wishes of local Americans). They want want their cake and eat it too...confederates slavery states rights were bad, but states rights that give illegal aliens special treatment is OK . Yeah, right. Something is wrong here.

 

[Mike Dwight]

I followed MaryL over here. Ya slavery, I mean why the south succeeded over union? It kept slavery? We have complete open immigration of fellow Iranian citizens to point laugh at all black people at all times, only their slavery is still a valid sale.I mean the south had good labor union representation and the north didn't have good unions and the two broke up because the north was hiding union representation. yeah. I want to meet the nice people the south said noooOoooOoOO. OK the Yellow Rose of Texas can move to Alabama in exchange for the Rose of Alabamy, Rosa Lee the belle of Tennessee can go see Oh Susanna in Louisiana, but, you know, Federal Immigration, we're going to think about it.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Civil War still divides Americans

So after 150 years, the majority of conservatives still believe the Civil War wasn't over slavery?

Why is this? Why do they believe the "States Rights" claim is sufficient enough to shield them from the fact that -- those states rights were those states preserving the right to maintain slavery -- so either way you slice it, the civil war was over slavery --


This is why whenever I see a conservative twisting themselves into pretzels to claim otherwise --- it makes their subsequent claims of not being racist look foolish.


Next time conservatives want to pretend that the Civil War wasn't over slavery -- they better travel back in time and tell all of those southern states to stop telling everyone it was over slavery

Oh you mean the democrat war to kill their fellow countrymen rather than give up their slaves, right?

The Confederacy had no political parties, Frankie. They kicked 'em out. Deliberately.

The Civil War and what led up to it was only about "states rights" insofar as the doctrine of "popular sovereignty" ---- leaving the decision of whether to allow slavery in newly-admitted states --- was the position of the Stephen Douglas wing of the Democratic Party (and others) in the1850s. By the time Douglas was nominated as a Presidential candidate in 1860, the South completely shut him out. But by the time of secession following that election, all of the Confederate states cited slavery specifically as their basis.

Nor was political party affiliation ever any kind of requirement to own slaves. Slaveowners were Federalists, Democratic-Republicans, Whigs, Know Nothings, Democrats, Constitutional Unionists and Those With No Party At All.

Oh and that Lincoln guy? Took a Democrat for a running mate and called it the "National Union Party". That was to garner Democratic voters in what was left of the country -- the part that still had political parties.

Prove any of that inaccurate.

You must be one of the Conservatives the OP was railing against

Slugo is just a liar.

The Confederacy was 100% democrat. There was no need for parties as the ONLY party allowed were the democrats.

Nothing has changed for the DNC in all these years.

Remember, the Confederacy was a big government oligarchy which used the power of the state to oppress 90% of the population, white and black. The entire system was run for the benefit of a handful of Silicone Valley billionaires. Oh wait, that's now - it was Plantation Owners back then - no real difference though. Both were masters of their universe.

 

[gipper]

Lincoln was a genocidal murderer.

Yes he was. He was a traitor who should have been hung in 1861, before he got his murderous unjust war going.

What for?

Dumb question.

 

[Uncensored2008]

620,000 did die in a war over slavery

620,000 died in the LAST civil war you democrat ***** started. How many will die in this current one you foul vermin started?

 

[Mike Dwight]

OK so American Gentry is equivalent to silicon valley, I'm with you. The rewriting of every Democrat ideal, OK, because the two-party system is basically just whoever the heck, shows up, I'm with you.
American gentry - Wikipedia
And pure American even Indian American heritage was triumphantly paraded around for the next 200 years. Small stuff. Hail Columbia is the anthem of George Washington and Robert E Lee is the second revolution who married into George Washington. So , well ...

Hold on ONE MORE THING! The white population was 6 million down there I think while its 20 million I think for the North, see the real problem here? They were lucky when they were nutcase wing of one of the two parties the whole time. Thanks for noticing them though! You ever heard of Breckinridge's presidential run? Its like you lose to Abraham Lincoln then you get left to be a confederate general.

 

[rightwinger]

Slavery was the only issue they were willing to go to war over

Slave states? Yes. I agree.

The Union and Lincoln were not willing to go to war over it.

Very true

 

[Markle]

White nationalists/social cons will always try to paint people like Lincoln as white supremacists in order to deflect from their hatred.

I am neither a white supremacist nor a conservative.

The only people I hate are those who threaten liberty.

From Snopes on the question of whether Lincoln was a white supremacist, they cite what Lincoln said during the Lincoln-Douglass debate:

“I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races … I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races from living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be a position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.”

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/did-lincoln-racism-equality-oppose/

MIC DROP!!!

And we all know that politicians never lie.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

And we all know that politicians never lie.

I'm just saying, Lincoln was a white supremacist.

 

[Pogo]

True the Emancipation Proclamation wasn't made until 1863- but illegal?

Never was declared so- and Lincoln carefully worded it to be within his authority as the Commander in Chief-

Just the lovers of the Rebel Slave states are pissed off that Lincoln told their slaves that they would be freed.

There is nothing in the Constitution that allows the commander in chief to unilaterally write laws. Slavery was legal, he had no authority to declare it otherwise, by proclamation.

I think the difference is the EP wasn't a "law" of the United States. It was a military order effective in occupied war territory (the Confederacy had by definition left the United States).

The EP did not "declare slavery illegal". It only declared that those who had been slaves in certain occupied territory were freed of their status. Actually abolition of Slavery was effected by the 13th Amendment in December of 1865, at which time none of the seceded states had been readmitted yet.

Don't let the facts intrude on this Confederate love fest.

The Emancipation Proclamation is an odd document to watch the contards twist themselves into pretzels about.

You have the one side who proudly lie that the Emancipation Proclamation didn't free a single slave- and that is of course false- but they make the lie to diminish the importance of it.

Then you have the other group which proclaims the EP was illegal- deftly ignoring the actual wording of the EP and the legal argument behind it.

And then you have those who make both claims- because of course they want to argue that a) Lincoln did nothing to free any slaves- and it was illegal for him to to it!

OKT's trying to use weasel words to first have it both ways, and then deny he wanted to have it the way that got busted.

It's a popular sport here. Where nobody ever wins.

I noticed you ran away with no rebuttal, did you run out of spin?

Ever hear the expression "You can't fix Stupid"?

 

[otto105]

Civil War still divides Americans

So after 150 years, the majority of conservatives still believe the Civil War wasn't over slavery?

Why is this? Why do they believe the "States Rights" claim is sufficient enough to shield them from the fact that -- those states rights were those states preserving the right to maintain slavery -- so either way you slice it, the civil war was over slavery --


This is why whenever I see a conservative twisting themselves into pretzels to claim otherwise --- it makes their subsequent claims of not being racist look foolish.


Next time conservatives want to pretend that the Civil War wasn't over slavery -- they better travel back in time and tell all of those southern states to stop telling everyone it was over slavery

Oh you mean the democrat war to kill their fellow countrymen rather than give up their slaves, right?

The Confederacy had no political parties, Frankie. They kicked 'em out. Deliberately.

The Civil War and what led up to it was only about "states rights" insofar as the doctrine of "popular sovereignty" ---- leaving the decision of whether to allow slavery in newly-admitted states --- was the position of the Stephen Douglas wing of the Democratic Party (and others) in the1850s. By the time Douglas was nominated as a Presidential candidate in 1860, the South completely shut him out. But by the time of secession following that election, all of the Confederate states cited slavery specifically as their basis.

Nor was political party affiliation ever any kind of requirement to own slaves. Slaveowners were Federalists, Democratic-Republicans, Whigs, Know Nothings, Democrats, Constitutional Unionists and Those With No Party At All.

Oh and that Lincoln guy? Took a Democrat for a running mate and called it the "National Union Party". That was to garner Democratic voters in what was left of the country -- the part that still had political parties.

Prove any of that inaccurate.

You must be one of the Conservatives the OP was railing against

Slugo is just a liar.

The Confederacy was 100% democrat. There was no need for parties as the ONLY party allowed were the democrats.

Nothing has changed for the DNC in all these years.

Remember, the Confederacy was a big government oligarchy which used the power of the state to oppress 90% of the population, white and black. The entire system was run for the benefit of a handful of Silicone Valley billionaires. Oh wait, that's now - it was Plantation Owners back then - no real difference though. Both were masters of their universe.

Hardly, nothing has changed? All those dixiecrats turned republic voters when that party promised to keep their white privilege.

Additionally, if you think the confederacy was just protecting the economic interests of a few your ignorant to what the people of the confederacy stated they wanted. Slavery represented the white superiority to them and they wanted to fight for it.

 

[MaryL]

Well gosh. Bleeding Kansas, and the terrorist raids against new states that were against slavery. Even the event at Harper's ferry. There was, what they call now , a paradigm shift, consciousness change. People didn't want slavery anymore. It violates our basic sense of identity.But the south, they needed it, so they defended it . George Washington was a slave owner and Virginian, he was old school, He knew better.