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So...babies that are born in foreign countries, villages, etc who are not baptized in whatever faith, they go to hell?Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
When one dies, their spirit ether goes to a place called paradise or they go to spirit prison. Those in paradise are organized to go and teach the gospel to the spirits in prison.
So...babies that are born in foreign countries, villages, etc who are not baptized in whatever faith, they go to hell?Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
When one dies, their spirit ether goes to a place called paradise or they go to spirit prison. Those in paradise are organized to go and teach the gospel to the spirits in prison.
This is why I'll stick with pagan-christian path. The God I believe in does not punish the innocent and barely punishes the bad because we are not born bad. We are taught to be evil or good. TAUGHT.
But still...some fascinating responses here. Thank you.
okSo...babies that are born in foreign countries, villages, etc who are not baptized in whatever faith, they go to hell?Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
When one dies, their spirit ether goes to a place called paradise or they go to spirit prison. Those in paradise are organized to go and teach the gospel to the spirits in prison.
This is why I'll stick with pagan-christian path. The God I believe in does not punish the innocent and barely punishes the bad because we are not born bad. We are taught to be evil or good. TAUGHT.
But still...some fascinating responses here. Thank you.
No! Babies do not go to hell! Not sure how you get that from what I posted? Many Christian faiths in the world today believe that if a baby is not baptized and dies, they will not make it into heaven. What I have been saying is that Jesus, between the time he suffered on the cross and the time he was resurrected, went to the world of spirits and set up his gospel to be preached unto them. This allows all mankind, whether or not they had the opportunity in this life to hear the gospel or not, to have the gospel taught unto them in the hereafter. They then have the opportunity to accept it or reject it prior to resurrection. However, Jesus also taught that the ordinance of baptism is critical to receive in order to enter into the kingdom of heaven. For this reason, baptism for the dead was set up on this earth since spirits are not able to be baptized. It is a massive work to make sure that all mankind will be baptized and we believe this great work will go on after Jesus comes again to the earth and rules. Eventually every living soul that has lived on this earth will have had baptism performed in their behalf. So once they hear the gospel in the world of spirits, they will have the opportunity to either accept it or reject it. Nobody gets left out and automatically sent to hell. Jesus has provided a way for all to be saved if they choose to accept salvation. That is the crux of what I have been saying.
No. Neither do people of the Jewish faith. The Catholic Catechism states that as Catholics we live our faith, and naturally extend a hand to those who wish to live as we do or are interested in Catholicism. The Catechism further states we leave those who are not of our faith (including atheists) in the loving arms of God. Where humans fail, the Holy Spirit can work wonders. We do not try and take over or take on the job of God's Holy Spirit.Being that as it is, does not the Catholic believer and the believer of any other faith have hope that all mankind would be members of their own faiths?
Yes. And if you had seen the distress of my grandmother's daughters over the LDS desecration even you might have felt badly. I can only hope so.Just because we take it just a step further and perform a saving ordinance for people who have passed on to the spirit world, is that really a reason to get offended?
Because you are using proxies, stuffing words into the mouth of a person you never knew, never even met! Would you stuff words into the mouth of a live person? In the Catholic faith, we believe in the living Body of Christ--and that it includes those alive in this world and those who have passed on. You have no right. It is as simple as that.Why would anyone even give a flying flip about it if they do not believe what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches or does?
Because our faith is just as dear to us, if not dearer. Why can't you respect that?You can simply choose to ignore it. I really don't see why one would take offense to something they find to be absurd or ridiculous and a waste of time.
Arrogance. You are claiming you can do what God and the angels cannot.It is just the way God established it. Perhaps because people will have a different perspective once they find themselves in the spirit world and see that there is life beyond the grave and hear the true message of Jesus Christ and are give the chance to accept or reject it there.
That you place your rites and beliefs over God is a kind of idolatry and the arrogance of such rates, if not an abomination, then close to it.
As Catholics, we…
You are misinformed. No idolatry.The Catholic faith involves a great deal of rituals and outright idolotry
To suppose that that Catholic faith condones idolatry is incredibly ignorant.
You are misinformed. No idolatry.
As I said, you are misinformed, or in error.It's pretty blatant. You have to be blind or ignorant not to see it.
That is absolutely fascinating! Like your family, mine on my mothers side also came from a long line of Mormons in Provo and Salt Lake City. Our branch got excommunicated though, over a land dispute. Funny historyThis is Joseph Smith:So....if you are a Mormon, can you explain the concept of what it is and why you chose that path? Did you do it on your own, or were you born into it due to family? What do you like/dislike about it?
Here is a little more about Joseph Smith:
Joseph Smith and the criminal justice system - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Joseph Smith flees Ohio | January 12, 1838 | HISTORY
After his bank fails in the Panic of 1837, Joseph Smith flees Kirtland, Ohio, to avoid arrest and heads for Missouri to rebuild his religious community. A sensitive and religious-minded man since his youth, Joseph Smith claimed the angel Moroni visited him in 1823, when he was 17 years old, and...www.history.com
This is the text of the Book of Mormon whose source is from golden plates that were buried in the US--in New York that were written in reformed Egyptian. Yep.
Book of Mormon
Single source files for generating the English print scriptures. The basic text of the Translator’s Copy of the scriptures (06897) can also be derived from these files.www.churchofjesuschrist.org
It was chosen for me. I am an ex-Mormon. I also have line/s that go back to the beginning with Joseph Smith. This Eden, Arizona – Mormon Ghost Town – Legends of America was a town that my family established. It's a Mormon ghost town now. Several went from this town (or others mentioned) to Mexico where other Mormon families lived. My grandfather was born into it but didn't attend as an adult that I can remember but I realize there was life before my existence. My grandmother was a Quaker and came from a long line of Quakers. She never went to an LDS church for service and she never said (to the best of my knowledge) anything derogatory about it. You know.........like Quakers do or don't to be more precise. My father was a Mormon but had not attended since he was a child. My mother was born a Catholic. My dad said: Nope! Not doing that! I told my parents at like 6 or 7 that I wanted to become a Nun. They both said: Nope! Not doing that!
I remember getting up on Saturdays to crack wheat at the Church. Those were crazy times. Every night of the week had one family member attending church. It was never a night that we were as a family alone. The women didn't really hold a lot of power. Their power came from tattling on other women. We had a front room that was always reserved for other Mormons to come over to. Every once in a while a couple of the women from the church would come by. It didn't really stop there. Missionaries leave home with someone and they are not allowed to maintain contact with their parents. Just the Bishop, etc. That other person is with you 24/7 and they maintain contact with the bishop. You are never alone and someone is always checking up on you. I think that is the most horrendous part of it. It's the part that I don't like. It's hard to digest.
On the other hand, LDS baptism by proxy, after death, is fact.It [Catholic idolatry] is pretty blatant. You have to be blind or ignorant not to see it.
What I do note is that they wait until people have passed away. Why not just grab a telephone book and proxy baptize us when we are living? Answer: Because they know that is wrong. Just as wrong as what they do a year after we die. Unbelievable they do not feel shame over this.It's a passive aggressive action. Can you stop them? Nope. So, what are you going to do about it? Nothing.
They are aware.
The link you provided does not contain anything close to "evidence". It is an attempt to justify past actions that developed later.Full stop. I am aware of the church's ever changing view of the seer stones. You know what's missing? The "money digging"/treasure hunting in Missouri and it's contribution to violence. Would you be so kind as to share that information as well?
the link I gave you has tons of evidence and history regarding your question that has been well researched. If you don't want to read it but want to write it off as "the church's ever changing view of seer stones" that is your prerogative.
I find it interesting that Mr. Vance who wrote the article has a wife and children that are still members of the church. I guess he hasn't quite convinced them that seer stones are a major cause of violence in the world.
That is absolutely fascinating! Like your family, mine on my mothers side also came from a long line of Mormons in Provo and Salt Lake City. Our branch got excommunicated though, over a land dispute. Funny historyThis is Joseph Smith:So....if you are a Mormon, can you explain the concept of what it is and why you chose that path? Did you do it on your own, or were you born into it due to family? What do you like/dislike about it?
Here is a little more about Joseph Smith:Joseph Smith and the criminal justice system - Wikipedia
Joseph Smith flees Ohio | January 12, 1838 | HISTORY
After his bank fails in the Panic of 1837, Joseph Smith flees Kirtland, Ohio, to avoid arrest and heads for Missouri to rebuild his religious community. A sensitive and religious-minded man since his youth, Joseph Smith claimed the angel Moroni visited him in 1823, when he was 17 years old, and...
This is the text of the Book of Mormon whose source is from golden plates that were buried in the US--in New York that were written in reformed Egyptian. Yep.
Book of Mormon
Single source files for generating the English print scriptures. The basic text of the Translator’s Copy of the scriptures (06897) can also be derived from these files.www.churchofjesuschrist.org
It was chosen for me. I am an ex-Mormon. I also have line/s that go back to the beginning with Joseph Smith. This Eden, Arizona – Mormon Ghost Town – Legends of America was a town that my family established. It's a Mormon ghost town now. Several went from this town (or others mentioned) to Mexico where other Mormon families lived. My grandfather was born into it but didn't attend as an adult that I can remember but I realize there was life before my existence. My grandmother was a Quaker and came from a long line of Quakers. She never went to an LDS church for service and she never said (to the best of my knowledge) anything derogatory about it. You know.........like Quakers do or don't to be more precise. My father was a Mormon but had not attended since he was a child. My mother was born a Catholic. My dad said: Nope! Not doing that! I told my parents at like 6 or 7 that I wanted to become a Nun. They both said: Nope! Not doing that!
I remember getting up on Saturdays to crack wheat at the Church. Those were crazy times. Every night of the week had one family member attending church. It was never a night that we were as a family alone. The women didn't really hold a lot of power. Their power came from tattling on other women. We had a front room that was always reserved for other Mormons to come over to. Every once in a while a couple of the women from the church would come by. It didn't really stop there. Missionaries leave home with someone and they are not allowed to maintain contact with their parents. Just the Bishop, etc. That other person is with you 24/7 and they maintain contact with the bishop. You are never alone and someone is always checking up on you. I think that is the most horrendous part of it. It's the part that I don't like. It's hard to digest.
