Mormons?

[onefour1]

Joseph Smith's seer stones inspired a lot of violence.

Seer Stones of Joseph Smith – Mormon Scholar

mormonscholar.org

Here is a link to how the church views the seer stones Joseph Smith used. The relationship between Joseph Smith's seer stone and the Urim and Thummim

 

[onefour1]

Growing up, I attended Catholic School. I was 14-years-old and unaware of the Mormon church. One day in the public library I came across the Book of Mormon on one of the library tables. I leafed through it and saw it was about God. I flipped through reading passages and was disappointed. I walked away thinking, "That sounds like it was written by a 14-year-old boy.

A few years passed, was now in a public high school and a few of my friends were Mormon. Turns out their book was written by a 14-year-old boy! But both the book and they said I should pray about this. I definitely believed in prayer, so I did pray. A sense of calmness descended and the unspoken words of, "This is not for you." It was an incredible sensation. When something like this happens, I am very careful not to change or read any other meaning into it.

There was no indication that the Mormon faith was not for anyone else, I prayed and the very clear answer was it was not for ME. This does not mean that it isn't meant for anyone else either.

Years passed, continued to meet and love my friends who were Mormon. We only had on really major fight. A year after my Catholic grandmother died she had one of those after death baptisms into the Mormon faith. At the time my Catholic mother and aunt were beginning to ail, and my aunt was as interested in genealogy sites as I was. My ailing mother would have been horrified and terrified of the same thing being done to her after her death. And it probably has been done which makes me feel like vomiting. The Mormon argument was that perhaps they didn't have the chance to choose during their lives. Not so. Even during my grandmother's life she had many visits from Mormons and they were told no. Not interested.

I can forgive Mormons for their past, but forgiving them this rape of a person's faith is as close to unforgivable as I have ever seen. Shame on that church and double shame on the people who stand in as proxies. Try them and the church the same way a rapist is tried.

We believe that baptism is a required ordinance that one must receive in order to be saved into the kingdom of heaven.


Mark 16:16
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

We also believe that the true priesthood was restored to Joseph Smith from John the Baptist and Peter, James, and John. We also believe that mankind can receive baptism after they have died through vicarious baptism known as baptism of the dead.

1 Corinthians 15:29
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

When one dies, their spirit ether goes to a place called paradise or they go to spirit prison. Those in paradise are organized to go and teach the gospel to the spirits in prison. The spirits in prison have the opportunity to either accept or reject the message. However, the ordinance of baptism is not performed in the spirit world. It is an ordinance that is performed here on earth. This why people today, in our temples, are baptized for the dead. It was also performed in the days of Paul as he reasoned in 1 Corinthians. In this way, the Lord is fair and allows all mankind the opportunity to hear the gospel and decide whether or not to accept or reject it. It is up to we who still live on the earth to attempt to vicariously baptize all mankind. This will be one of the great works that will continue throughout the Millennium after Christ comes. Your mother is not forced to accept the vicarious ordinance we perform in our temples. If she is taught the gospel we preach in the hereafter and continues to reject it, the baptism is of no value to her. She still has the free will to decide and if she still says, no, then it will be as she says.

I could list quite a few practices the Catholics do that I personally find offensive but I respect the freedom of religion we have in this country and allow all to worship how, where or what they may.

1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. (baptism)

1 Peter 4:6
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

 

[onefour1]

Smith's minions destroyed the building and business of a local newspaper that exposed Smith's various hypocrisies and phoniness. Smith and his brother were arrested and charged with arson. While he was in the makeshift jail, the locals heard that the Mormons were going to try to break him out, and Smith died in a gunfight at the jail. He was no martyr or hero.

Among his many wives were women who were inconveniently married to other men at the time of their marriages to Smith. A bigger self-aggrandizing phony would be difficult to imagine.

The church's perspective on the decision to destroy the Nauvoo Expositor (the local newspaper): Nauvoo Expositor

In regard to the church's teaching of plural marriage, plural marriage has not at all times in history been against the teachings of God. Abraham, Jacob, and others in the old testament had several wives and were considered faithful prophets of God. The church teaches that in this final dispensation of the revelations of God before and after his coming again upon the earth, that a restoration (restitution) of all things would occur. This restoration would include the principal of plural marriage.

Acts 3:21
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Members of the church when getting married are sealed for time and all eternity to their partners. Being sealed for "time" means being sealed while on this earth. Being sealed for "all eternity" means to be sealed after this life for the rest of eternity. Some of the women who believed in Joseph and became members were married to men who did not believe. Some of these women Joseph sealed to him "for all eternity" but not for "time". In other words, they were considered Joseph's wives after they were dead. The world lumps these women into the count of "Joseph's wives" as if he were committing adultery. There is no evidence that he committed adultery with these women.

For more on the wives of Joseph Smith and the law of plural marriage, see: Joseph Smith/Polygamy

The reason that Joseph kept this commandment from God a secret from those outside the church is because he received much persecution from the prejudice of men from its practice. It eventually lead to his martyrdom in Carthage jail.

 

[tyroneweaver]

The "problem" with the Joseph Smith religion is that it is too recent, so that many of its beliefs can be disproven. It's not just the pie-in-the-sky stuff that is not subject to measurement, it's the actual factual claims that are - hate to say it - false. Did Christ walk on water? Nobody today can disprove it. But did Joe Smith receive golden tablets from the angel Moroni, translating them from "reformed Egyptian" to English? No.

There is no genetic or archaeological evidence to support the basic history of the Book of Mormon. No artifacts, no Native Americans with Semitic genes, none of it. In fact, given the breadth of the claims, the total lack of corroboration is proof that it is all made up. Further, Smith's beliefs that the Amerindians descended from the so-called "lost tribes of Israel" was fairly common at Smith's time.

There is no such language as "reformed Egyptian," and never was. The "witnesses" to the BoM were compromised and simply cannot be believed.

The fraud of the Book of Abraham has never been explained away, as that is not really possible. Smith took a document that he presumed NOBODY would ever be able to translate, and made up a story about a biblical figure that is now part of LDS scripture. It was later translated by a competent linguist and it had nothing to do with Abraham or any Hebrew, and was off in time by centuries.

The LDS religion is, by most accounts, a valuable cultural addition to the American mosaic, producing good citizens by the hundreds of thousands. But theologically it is balderdash. Maybe all religions are, but LDS is provable balderdash.

And if stating an obvious truth makes me a bigot, then send me to jail. Guilty as charged.

ya, I know what ya mean. That part in the Book of Mormon where Brigham Young wrestled with the bear and fell out of the Salt Lake Temple into the great salt lake was hard to swallow

 

[Meriweather]

We believe that baptism is a required ordinance that one must receive in order to be saved into the kingdom of heaven.

Your beliefs are your own but they are not the beliefs of devoted Catholics or people of other faiths. You are welcome to your beliefs. The beliefs of others should be welcome and respected as well.

 

[Meriweather]

I could list quite a few practices the Catholics do that I personally find offensive but I respect the freedom of religion we have in this country and allow all to worship how, where or what they may.

You are not forced into any Catholic practice--whether you find them offensive or not. Catholics believe in freedom of choice--and we did not choose the LDS faith. That the LDS Church goes against freedom of choice goes against the very will of God.

 

[Disir]

Joseph Smith's seer stones inspired a lot of violence.

Seer Stones of Joseph Smith – Mormon Scholar

mormonscholar.org

Here is a link to how the church views the seer stones Joseph Smith used. The relationship between Joseph Smith's seer stone and the Urim and Thummim

Full stop. I am aware of the church's ever changing view of the seer stones. You know what's missing? The "money digging"/treasure hunting in Missouri and it's contribution to violence. Would you be so kind as to share that information as well?

 

[Disir]

I could list quite a few practices the Catholics do that I personally find offensive but I respect the freedom of religion we have in this country and allow all to worship how, where or what they may.

You are not forced into any Catholic practice--whether you find them offensive or not. Catholics believe in freedom of choice--and we did not choose the LDS faith. That the LDS Church goes against freedom of choice goes against the very will of God.

It's a passive aggressive action. Can you stop them? Nope. So, what are you going to do about it? Nothing.

They are aware.

 

[Sunni Man]

The Book or Mormon talks about ancient lands, cities, rivers, and tribes of people throughout Central and South America, which is why there are mormon's all over the place searching for artifacts to back up the book's far fetched claims.
But after many decades of Mormon archaeologists searching through the jungles and exploring the remote mountains of Central and South America; not a single shard of pottery or other physical evidence has ever been excavated to verify the Book of Mormon's fraudulent narrative. ...

 

[Meriweather]

It's a passive aggressive action. Can you stop them? Nope. So, what are you going to do about it? Nothing.

They are aware.

What I do note is that they wait until people have passed away. Why not just grab a telephone book and proxy baptize us when we are living? Answer: Because they know that is wrong. Just as wrong as what they do a year after we die. Unbelievable they do not feel shame over this.

 

[onefour1]

We believe that baptism is a required ordinance that one must receive in order to be saved into the kingdom of heaven.

Your beliefs are your own but they are not the beliefs of devoted Catholics or people of other faiths. You are welcome to your beliefs. The beliefs of others should be welcome and respected as well.

I never claimed that my beliefs were the beliefs of devoted Catholics or people of other faiths. We believe that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the one true church on the face of the earth. I am sure that many Catholics and members of other religions feel the same about their religion. Being that as it is, does not the Catholic believer and the believer of any other faith have hope that all mankind would be members of their own faiths? Just because we take it just a step further and perform a saving ordinance for people who have passed on to the spirit world, is that really a reason to get offended? I personally would not care if the Catholics or any other religion preformed ordinances or any other religious ritual on behalf of a member of my family or other member of our church. Why would I not care? Because I wouldn't believe that it had any real effect in this life or in eternity. Personally I wouldn't believe that they have any authority and that God would recognize what they do. Why would anyone even give a flying flip about it if they do not believe what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches or does? Why is it so important for others to try and force our church into doing what they think we shouldn't do if it is not truly believed that the ordinance has any real effect or meaning in this life or in eternity? In your mind are we really robbing your mother of her faith and do you believe that God or any other people on earth other than the members of our church believe in our rituals? Who cares? We care but it is our religion. You can simply choose to ignore it. I really don't see why one would take offense to something they find to be absurd or ridiculous and a waste of time.

However, when looked at from our point of view, if our church really is the true church of Jesus Christ, why would it be bad for Christ's church to seek to save all mankind? Obviously it wouldn't. Is free will being robbed from anyone? NO! Like I explained previously, we believe the person who has died is given a choice in heaven to accept or reject the baptism which we believe is performed with true authority. If they reject it then it doesn't force them into the kingdom of heaven. However, if they do accept it and if it is the true ordinance of baptism which the Lord requires for salvation, then it is a good thing. We believe that baptism for the dead, as mentioned in the bible, is a true doctrine of Christ and that it is the work of this church to baptize all mankind. We believe that all mankind will have the opportunity given them by Christ to hear and receive his gospel, if not in this world, the in the world to come. We believe that this is the reason that Christ taught the gospel to the dead as mentioned in the epistles of the Apostle Peter. Do you really believe that unbaptized babies born in this life will go to hell? Jesus has provided a means whereby all mankind will grow and have the opportunity to hear his gospel and receive the saving ordinance of baptism. It just seems to me that the true church of Jesus Christ would provide a means of salvation via baptism for the dead and the receiving of the gospel in spirit prison so that all mankind would have an equal opportunity to be saved. Why else would Jesus have preached to the spirits that were dead?

1 Peter 4:6
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

 

[onefour1]

It's a passive aggressive action. Can you stop them? Nope. So, what are you going to do about it? Nothing.

They are aware.

What I do note is that they wait until people have passed away. Why not just grab a telephone book and proxy baptize us when we are living? Answer: Because they know that is wrong. Just as wrong as what they do a year after we die. Unbelievable they do not feel shame over this.

It is just the way God established it. Perhaps because people will have a different perspective once they find themselves in the spirit world and see that there is life beyond the grave and hear the true message of Jesus Christ and are give the chance to accept or reject it there.

 

[onefour1]

I could list quite a few practices the Catholics do that I personally find offensive but I respect the freedom of religion we have in this country and allow all to worship how, where or what they may.

You are not forced into any Catholic practice--whether you find them offensive or not. Catholics believe in freedom of choice--and we did not choose the LDS faith. That the LDS Church goes against freedom of choice goes against the very will of God.

We do not force anyone into the faith. We simply perform and ordinance, which can only be performed in this life, for all mankind so that they can choose to accept or reject it in the world to come. If they reject it, they will not be part of what we believe to be the faith. No force as falsely believed just a necessary ordinance should they so choose to believe.

 

[onefour1]

I don't think it should be up to those remaining family members to assume that once out of the body in this life that they have no choice in the world to come. We do not force the faith upon them but believe that they will still have the choice to accept or reject it. We do however believe that the ordinance of baptism cannot be performed only in this life and this is the reason we seek to make sure that all mankind have the ordinance performed so they at least can at least choose baptism in the world to come. Without doing so, we believe that this opportunity would be lost to them. For this reason baptism for the dead is practiced in this life as it was back in the days of the Apostle Paul. If we are believed to be a false church, I would think you would simply laugh at us for expending huge amounts of our time and money performing a false belief instead of becoming worked up over the ordinance which is only meant to give the dead a chance to accept the gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[onefour1]

The Book or Mormon talks about ancient lands, cities, rivers, and tribes of people throughout Central and South America, which is why there are mormon's all over the place searching for artifacts to back up the book's far fetched claims.
But after many decades of Mormon archaeologists searching through the jungles and exploring the remote mountains of Central and South America; not a single shard of pottery or other physical evidence has ever been excavated to verify the Book of Mormon's fraudulent narrative. ...

I'm sorry but the Book of Mormon never mentions that the land was Central or South America. Some people both in and out of the church have made those assumptions. However, more recent studies and archaeology are finding evidence that the Book of Mormon likely occurred in North America.

see: Book of Mormon Evidence play the entire list of videos

see also : Rod Meldrum many other videos on the topic

 

[onefour1]

Full stop. I am aware of the church's ever changing view of the seer stones. You know what's missing? The "money digging"/treasure hunting in Missouri and it's contribution to violence. Would you be so kind as to share that information as well?

the link I gave you has tons of evidence and history regarding your question that has been well researched. If you don't want to read it but want to write it off as "the church's ever changing view of seer stones" that is your prerogative.

 

[onefour1]

I find it interesting that Mr. Vance who wrote the article has a wife and children that are still members of the church. I guess he hasn't quite convinced them that seer stones are a major cause of violence in the world.

 

[Sunni Man]

The Book or Mormon talks about ancient lands, cities, rivers, and tribes of people throughout Central and South America, which is why there are mormon's all over the place searching for artifacts to back up the book's far fetched claims.
But after many decades of Mormon archaeologists searching through the jungles and exploring the remote mountains of Central and South America; not a single shard of pottery or other physical evidence has ever been excavated to verify the Book of Mormon's fraudulent narrative. ...

I'm sorry but the Book of Mormon never mentions that the land was Central or South America. Some people both in and out of the church have made those assumptions. However, more recent studies and archaeology are finding evidence that the Book of Mormon likely occurred in North America.

see: Book of Mormon Evidence play the entire list of videos

see also : Rod Meldrum many other videos on the topic

 

[Sunni Man]

The Book of Mormon references alleged historical events, places, cities, and people that supposedly lived in either North America or South America.
But, after decades of intense searching by members of the church, there hasn't been a single artifact or other physical evidence to support the fraudulent claims made in the Book of Mormon. ...

 

[Dick Foster]

Actually....and I might get in trouble for saying this...but every religion peoples I have run into that were NOT kind or nice are....christians.
Very judgemental, ready to argue their faith, use scare tactics to persuade you to be Christian or else yougo to hell and burn forever if you don't do this or that. Which is why I consider myself pagan-christian. A bit of both but with the same God/Jesus. Not goddesses.

Well the Muslims aren't so fucking nice when they start chopping heads and hands off, nuow are they?
That said I had a southern Baptist Sunday school teacher say they should have given Hitler a little more time so he could have finished wiping out the jews. The same asshole told me I was going to hell for believing Darwin's theory had merit. That's about when I decided that all religions were composed of brainless fools who are simply afraid to die and want to belive they won't.