Zone1 Mormonism Exposed

[onefour1]

The arguments against the Book of Abraham are very old and have been addressed countless times. It never ceases to amaze me that those who research the Book of Abaham go to the anti-mormons to get their answers instead of going to pro-LDS sites to find out what the church has to say about their questions. Here is a site that addresses most, if not all, the doubts that people have raised regarding the Book of Abraham:

Book of Abraham

 

[onefour1]

FAIR which stands for Faithful Answers Informed Responses is a good site to get answers from the LDS point of view. Again, here is a link which leads to questions regarding Book of Mormon evidences:

Book of Mormon Evidences

 

[onefour1]

Book of Abraham evidences:

 

[HikerGuy83]

What is Mormonism?

Is Mormonism a cult?

thirdmill.org

A simplified Q&A concerning Mormonism and its heretical teaching postulated by Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.

What is heretical about it.

Claiming to be a restored church is nothing new.

Christ restored a higher law (that had been given to Adam) when he was here in the Meridian of Time.

 

[HikerGuy83]

How can they be exposed when they have their magical underwear? I thought it was proof against accidental exposures.

There you are, talking about things you know nothing about.

 

[HikerGuy83]

That's part of Mormonism's roots in Freemasonry

There are no "roots" in freemasonry.

Smith claims to have restored the truth through direct revelation.

Connections exist, but Joseph Smith was claiming at a young age to have had what is commonly referred to as the First Vision.

 

[HikerGuy83]

we believe that our church is the only true and living church of Jesus Christ upon the face of the earth.

Which commonly bring the accusation that we believe we are "right" while everyone else is "wrong".

Totally untrue.

What we believe is that we are a church (a religion is repository for a theology) that works off of a theology that was restored to the church that teaches things long since lost or forgotten.

People who practice what they believe are doing what they can and the Atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ will allow them (and everyone) the opportunity to enjoy the blessing of the restored gospel. In this life or the next.

We believe that there is much more to our existence than this mortality (this mortality being very important). We existed before we came here and we will continue to exist and grow after this life.

 

[HikerGuy83]

This is true of all cult leaders. Another glaring example is that of Charles Taze Russell and the Jehovah's Witnesses.

When Christ was on the earth and rolling out the higher law (as exemplified in the Beatitudes) was he making things up as he went along ?

 

[GMCGeneral]

What is heretical about it.

Claiming to be a restored church is nothing new.

Christ restored a higher law (that had been given to Adam) when he was here in the Meridian of Time.

But He made it abundantly clear that He, not Joseph Smith, not Charles Taze Russell, not Herbert W. Armstrong, nor any other cult leader, is THE final Authority!

 

[HikerGuy83]

FAIR which stands for Faithful Answers Informed Responses is a good site to get answers from the LDS point of view. Again, here is a link which leads to questions regarding Book of Mormon evidences:

Book of Mormon Evidences

I have never been a fan of this.

It's fun to hear, but in the end........

3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.

4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would aask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

There is no commandment to dig up part of South America in order to gain a testimony.

 

[HikerGuy83]

But He made it abundantly clear that He, not Joseph Smith, not Charles Taze Russell, not Herbert W. Armstrong, nor any other cult leader, is THE final Authority!

And that Christ is the final authority is all that I've ever been taught in the church. From D&C 76

22 And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the atestimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he blives!

23 For we asaw him, even on the bright hand of cGod; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the dOnly Begotten of the Father—

24 That by ahim, and through him, and of him, the bworlds are and were created, and the cinhabitants thereof are begotten dsons and daughters unto God.

From II Nephi 2:

5 And men are instructed sufficiently that they aknow good from evil. And the blaw is given unto men. And by the law no flesh is cjustified; or, by the law men are dcut off. Yea, by the temporal law they were cut off; and also, by the spiritual law they perish from that which is good, and become miserable forever.

6 Wherefore, aredemption cometh in and through the bHoly cMessiah; for he is full of dgrace and truth.

7 Behold, he offereth himself a asacrifice for sin, to answer the ends of the law, unto all those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit; and unto bnone else can the cends of the law be answered.

 

[GMCGeneral]

And that Christ is the final authority is all that I've ever been taught in the church. From D&C 76

22 And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the atestimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he blives!

23 For we asaw him, even on the bright hand of cGod; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the dOnly Begotten of the Father—

24 That by ahim, and through him, and of him, the bworlds are and were created, and the cinhabitants thereof are begotten dsons and daughters unto God.

From II Nephi 2:

5 And men are instructed sufficiently that they aknow good from evil. And the blaw is given unto men. And by the law no flesh is cjustified; or, by the law men are dcut off. Yea, by the temporal law they were cut off; and also, by the spiritual law they perish from that which is good, and become miserable forever.

6 Wherefore, aredemption cometh in and through the bHoly cMessiah; for he is full of dgrace and truth.

7 Behold, he offereth himself a asacrifice for sin, to answer the ends of the law, unto all those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit; and unto bnone else can the cends of the law be answered.

Mormonism preaches a works based "salvation" in clear defiance of the Canon of Scripture. Oh, and the book of Mormon violates John's warnings in Revelation. That if ANYONE adds to Scripture, G-d Himself will add plagues and judgement. Sorry, but the Book of Mormon is NOT the inspired Word of G-d. You need to repent and turn to Jesus Himself.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Correctly, JESUS CHRIST is the ETERNAL GOD in the Book of Mormon preface. The emphasis belonged to Joseph Smith. But by at the end of his life from knowing in 1830 that there is one God, Jesus is God, but then thinking Jesus is the Father, then he did not know for sure anymore in 1839.

A prophet, as recorded in the Book of Mosiah gives an explanation as to how Christ is both the Father and the Son.

But, there has never been any confusion in the Church.

We believe that God, the Eternal Father (Elohim), Jesus, the son of Elohim (Jehovah) and the Holy Ghost are three separate and distinct personages.

You'll get the comment that they are "one in purpose" which is true....but they are three separate and distinct personages.

 

[onefour1]

The Book of Abraham: A Valuable Discovery

 

[HikerGuy83]

Mormonism preaches a works based "salvation" in clear defiance of the Canon of Scripture. Oh, and the book of Mormon violates John's warnings in Revelation. That if ANYONE adds to Scripture, G-d Himself will add plagues and judgement. Sorry, but the Book of Mormon is NOT the inspired Word of G-d. You need to repent and turn to Jesus Himself.

Yes, well we quickly boil this argument down to this point.

Scripture was created year to year:

The Old Testament (which didn't exist as such) when Christ was here) was the continued writings and additions of prophets over thousands of years. The Bible, as we know it, didn't come to be until the 5th century.

I had to slam the door on this one, but from our perspective, the Bible isn't the ultimate authority. It's very existence testifies to continuous revelation and the ongoing correction of the church by it's leaders (as in Paul's letters).

That is what we believe and teach of how the Father deals with his children on earth.

Revelations was just placed at the end of the book because it's different. Books written after the Book of Revelation are included in the Bible.

Moroni, at the end of his abridgement encourages people to find out for themselves through the Holy Ghost (as quoted above). I have followed that counsel and have faith the Book of Mormon is true.

I don't feel the need to defend the church or it's teachings. We have as much claim to truth as anyone and we encourage people to experience the Holy Ghost to know for themselves.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Mormonism preaches a works based "salvation" in clear defiance of the Canon of Scripture.

It is very true that we believe you don't quality for eternal life by ignoring what you know to be true (vs 23). I've already quoted II Nephi 2:6 .....vs 26 just adds to this.

23 For we labor diligently to write, to apersuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by bgrace that we are saved, after all we can cdo.

24 And, notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we akeep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled.

25 For, for this end was the alaw given; wherefore the law hath become bdead unto us, and we are made alive in Christ because of our faith; yet we keep the law because of the commandments.

26 And we atalk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we bprophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our cchildren may know to what source they may look for a dremission of their sins.

 

[onefour1]

I have never been a fan of this.

It's fun to hear, but in the end........

3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.

4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would aask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

There is no commandment to dig up part of South America in order to gain a testimony.

True the greatest testimony one can receive is through direct personal revelation. However, we do need to exercise faith in many of the truths of God. We gain faith through evidences and God can witness unto us if these evidences are true or not.

Hebrews 11:1
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

 

[HikerGuy83]

True the greatest testimony one can receive is through direct personal revelation. However, we do need to exercise faith in many of the truths of God. We gain faith through evidences and God can witness unto us if these evidences are true or not.

Hebrews 11:1
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Yes, there are some things that help.

However, the church has been guilty of making far to many claims that were later disputed as more scientific knowledge has come to light.

The greater evidences are the Spirit of Christ Moroni speaks of.

And many of my evangelical friends find the doctrine of the three degrees of glory and the personal responsibility associated with judgement to be inherently "logical" and appealing to their spiritual senses.

 

[onefour1]

Yes, there are some things that help.

However, the church has been guilty of making far to many claims that were later disputed as more scientific knowledge has come to light.

The greater evidences are the Spirit of Christ Moroni speaks of.

And many of my evangelical friends find the doctrine of the three degrees of glory and the personal responsibility associated with judgement to be inherently "logical" and appealing to their spiritual senses.

Welcome to USMB HikerGuy83!!! It is always nice to see another member on this site!!!!

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I had to slam the door on this one, but from our perspective, the Bible isn't the ultimate authority. It's very existence testifies to continuous revelation and the ongoing correction of the church by it's leaders (as in Paul's letters).

Amos 3:7 — Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

God did not stop trying to speak to Mankind shortly after Jesus' time among us. Mankind refused to listen, any longer.