What happened to the golden plates? Were they lost or stolen? Sounds like Ron Wyatt to me.
Zone1 Mormonism Exposed
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What happened to the golden plates? Were they lost or stolen? Sounds like Ron Wyatt to me.
Bob Blaylock
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A very long time ago, I came across the writings of a man named Lynn Ridenhour, who claims to be a Baptist minister, and preaches out of The Book of Mormon.
He's not a Mormon, and he disagrees with many teachings of Mormonism, but he has an appreciation for the Book of Mormon that puts us genuine Mormons to shame.
I hadn't thought about him for decades, but just now, I was reminded of him; and with a quick bit of Googling, I found this page:
Like the Bible, the central theme of the Book of Mormon is the Lordship of Jesus Christ. There are over 160 passages in the Book of Mormon that speak of the Lord Jesus Christ. There were 22 men named in the Book of Mormon who saw Christ. Some form of Christ’s name is mentioned on an average of every 1.7 verses. The New Testament mentions a form of Christ’s name on an average of every 2.1 verses. The name of the Savior appears nearly 25 percent more frequently in the Book of Mormon than in the New Testament. When we realize that a verse usually consists of one sentence, we cannot on the average read two sentences in the Book of Mormon without seeing some form of Christ’s name.
"He is Lord" rings loud and clear from its pages like a London cathedral choir harmonizing on a Sunday morning. The sound is resonant throughout the book’s pages. The Spirit’s witness is there. That same Jesus I discovered in the Bible is also present in the pages of the Book of Mormon. Praise be to His holy name!
Crepitus
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Are you my new stalker?
Do you guys get assigned to certain posters or is it a lottery or what?
Anyway, I hope you're more challenging than that last guy. The constant crying was annoying.
The Duke
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There's actually a Bible verse that says there's many worlds and many Gods.
There's only one God for this world, though.
Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 - King James Version
For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
On this point we members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints agree. As the Apostle Paul would say:There's actually a Bible verse that says there's many worlds and many Gods.
There's only one God for this world, though.
Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 - King James Version
For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.www.biblegateway.com
1 Corinthians 8:
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Neither lost or stolen. They were taken back by the Angel Moroni.
We believe that we are the only church which holds the priesthood of God and are able to bestow those priesthood blessings onto others. We believe that the original Church of Jesus Christ that Jesus established fell into a state of apostasy and needed to be restored. We believe that God restored his church through the prophet Joseph Smith and that God told the prophet Joseph Smith the following:
Joseph Smith History 1: 16-20
16 But, exerting all my powers to call upon God to deliver me out of the power of this enemy which had seized upon me, and at the very moment when I was ready to sink into despair and abandon myself to destruction—not to an imaginary ruin, but to the power of some actual being from the unseen world, who had such marvelous power as I had never before felt in any being—just at this moment of great alarm, I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me.
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.” It seems as though the adversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me? Why the opposition and persecution that arose against me, almost in my infancy?
Its not that all other Christian sects do not have any truth but that they do error in many ways in so much that God does not recognize them as His. They draw near him with their lips but their hearts are far from Him. They are apostate and are considered an abomination in His sight. According to the revelation to Joseph Smith, these other Christian denominations were not God's true church. Through the prophet Joseph Smith, God restored his only true church upon the face of the earth.
Not everything other churches say is false. But they are not the path that the Lord would have them follow. Without the true priesthood of God, their baptisms are not valid and other teachings such as faith without works are not correct. However what you say is true that those who never have the opportunity to accept the true gospel in this life may have that opportunity in the next life. We know that Jesus went and preached to the spirits that were dead and set up his gospel in the afterlife. So the opportunity is not subject to this life only. I believe that since it is mentioned in scripture that if we commit certain sins that we will not have forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come, that there is probably a degree of forgiveness to others who do not commit unforgiveable sins in the world to come. God, in scripture, has mentioned that there is eternal punishment but he has also stated the following:
Doctrine and Covenants 19:6-12
6 Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment.
7 Again, it is written eternal damnation; wherefore it is more express than other scriptures, that it might work upon the hearts of the children of men, altogether for my name’s glory.
8 Wherefore, I will explain unto you this mystery, for it is meet unto you to know even as mine apostles.
9 I speak unto you that are chosen in this thing, even as one, that you may enter into my rest.
10 For, behold, the mystery of godliness, how great is it! For, behold, I am endless, and the punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, for Endless is my name. Wherefore—
11 Eternal punishment is God’s punishment.
12 Endless punishment is God’s punishment.
From this I believe that for most, there will be forgiveness of sin in the world to come and possibly progression. However, for those who become the sons of Perdition, I don't think that they will receive forgiveness in this world or the world to come.
HikerGuy83
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That, of course, was prophesied in Thessalonians.
Paul speaks of a falling away......
And by extension, a restoration.
HikerGuy83
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What you say is true....however, it is the unsaid that is sometimes more troubling.
1. A life well lived is honored by our Father in Heaven. Someone who follows the Sprit of Christ (his conscience) and does what he or she can with what he knows is honored. Granted there are things to be completed, but justice states that all must have that opportunity. And everyone will.
2. Just being a mormon does not make you special. Sometimes in the church, I think we get an attitude that feels like we are "better than they". Which, of course, is not true. If anything, mormons are more accountable for having more truth yet still being stuck in (and partaking of) the world. I believe it was Hinkley who said that we've come way to far into the mainstream. That wasn't a complement. We should be a light. We should be letting Christ show through the love we feel for our fellowman. We should be doing all we can to bless the lives of others because of our knowledge. God is no respector of persons and and that means us (mormons) too.
3. We are actually under condemnation because we don't make use the of the light we've been given. It is unclear why we don't....but we don't. Most people appreciate honesty, compassion, love unfeigned, non-judgmentalism, and most of all the pure love of Christ (Charity). If we, as a church, got our act together, the world could be a much better place.
HikerGuy83
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Don't flatter yourself.
HikerGuy83
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A simplified Q&A concerning Mormonism and its heretical teaching postulated by Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.
O.K.
What have you exposed so far ?
Joseph Smith is reverred as the prophet of the restoration. The history of the church is an amazing one that includes some pretty strange things like the extermination order and polygamy.
He was a prophet. He testified of God and Christ. His First Vision confirmed that eternal nature of them both and placed Christ squarely at the head of the church. Christ performed the infinite and eternal Atonement which not only brought about the our literal resurrection, but also allows for man to achieve glory in the life to come (as result of his efforts, supremely amplified by the grace of the Lord Jesus).
Brigham Young was also a prophet. He was a powerful man and a key leader following Joseph Smith's death. He brought the Latter-day-saints out west.
But the head of the church is Jesus Christ.
From Gordon B. Hinkley:
Absolutely basic to our faith is our testimony of Jesus Christ as the Son of God, who under a divine plan was born in Bethlehem of Judea. He grew in Nazareth as the carpenter’s son, within Him the elements of both mortality and immortality received, respectively, from His earthly mother and His Heavenly Father. In the course of His brief earthly ministry, He walked the dusty roads of the Holy Land, healing the sick, causing the blind to see, raising the dead, teaching doctrines both transcendent and beautiful. He was, as Isaiah had prophesied, “a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief” (Isa. 53:3). He reached out to those whose burdens were heavy and invited them to cast their burdens upon Him, declaring, “My yoke is easy, and my burden is light” (Matt. 11:30). He “went about doing good” (Acts 10:38) and was hated for it. His enemies came against Him. He was seized, tried on spurious charges, convicted to satisfy the cries of the mob, and condemned to die on Calvary’s cross.
The nails pierced His hands and feet, and He hung in agony and pain, giving Himself a ransom for the sins of all men. He died crying, “Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do” (Luke 23:34).
He was buried in a borrowed tomb and on the third day rose from the grave. He came forth triumphant, in a victory over death, the firstfruits of all that slept. With His Resurrection came the promise to all men that life is everlasting, that even as in Adam all die, in Christ all are made alive (see 1 Cor. 15:20–22). Nothing in all of human history equals the wonder, the splendor, the magnitude, or the fruits of the matchless life of the Son of God, who died for each of us. He is our Savior. He is our Redeemer. As Isaiah foretold, “His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace” (Isa. 9:6).
He is the chief cornerstone of the church which bears His name, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. There is no other name given among men whereby we can be saved (see Acts 4:12). He is the author of our salvation, the giver of eternal life (see Heb. 5:9). There is none to equal Him. There never has been. There never will be. Thanks be to God for the gift of His Beloved Son, who gave His life that we might live and who is the chief, immovable cornerstone of our faith and His Church.
Crepitus
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No need, you kids do it for me.
Your post makes me think of this verse:
Doctrine and Covenants 82:3
3 For of him unto whom much is given much is required; and he who sins against the greater light shall receive the greater condemnation.
HikerGuy83
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HikerGuy83
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That is simply unfair and flys in the face of so many things.
1. The first verses of Matthew 7 command us not to judge. Calling someone Satan (or comparing them to Satan) brings with it judgement that seems to be pretty arrogant on your part.
2. Satan seeks to enslave and subject men to his will. His objectives are evil. What evil objectives can you point to that are part of our fundamental theology ?
3. What gives you the right to sit in judgement. As I've already pointed out, I dispute your claim to final authority using the Bible. I've read about this concept of the outer ring of hell where many Christians think that Muslims and others will be headed. How do justify that when God says he is no respecter of persons. He also indicated that the Gospel is being preached in the next life (I Peter 4). So, how do you reconcile that.
HikerGuy83
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I can't argue with what science claims to know or not know. What I do know is that there are at least 3 major areas of science that have changed dramatically in my lifetime from the "absolutes" claimed before.
1. Hubbel showed us a much larger "observable universe" when I was taught the milky way was about it.
2. Cancer was a death sentence. Now, the survival rate is huge.
3. The basic elements of atoms were protons, neutrons and electrons. I recall giving a report and saying (Quoting) that these were the smallest particles in the universe. Of course, we've found much much smaller ones. Which still blows my mind.
My point being...I won't try to dispute what you are saying. What I will say is that your claim that there should be verifiable evidence of the existence of the Book of Mormon begs the questions:
1. What is your standard of "enough" evidence ? When do you cross the line from not having enough to actually having enough (the assumption being that your choice to join the church was predicated on it's existence at some level).
2. Were you not connected to the idea that testimony comes through the Holy Ghost and not archeological research. Testimony and conversion are driven when a man decides to put "off the natural man" as spoken of in Mosiah:
For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.
This describes a spiritual conversion. Not a conversion based on knowledge of scientific facts. That might sound like an effort to sidestep science. It isn't. As I said, science is often not settled and the church has taken a few to liberties and claimed proof when, in the end, such proof was not verifiable.
I've got my own questions but I don't plan to make any movement based on them:
1. How did Joseph Smith know about the existence of civilizations in central and south Americal ?
2 How is Joseph's translation of Moses 6 & 7 and it's discussion of Enoch (and then the Book of Enoch appears and there are several things that match) explained ?
3. Has Joseph Smiths "fraud" ever been duplicated ?
But...as I say....answers good or bad mean little to me. The teachings are what they are.
I guess the other question is the application of the scientific method in Alma 32. Why would a liar put that in there ?
Anyway......
HikerGuy83
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What indications would anyone have that they are saved ?
And what do you mean by saved ?
HikerGuy83
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Once again, while useful, they are not (or should not be) the basis of testimony.
g5000
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The Mormon Doctrine quoted in that link is not an official LDS publication. It was written by an unauthorized third party.
A simplified Q&A concerning Mormonism and its heretical teaching postulated by Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.
The LDS church leadership found 1,067 errors in it.
GMCGeneral
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Doesn't matter. They are NOT true Christians, not according to the Scriptures.
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