Zone1 Morality is natural phenomenon.

[Blues Man]

Indentured servants. And what you are criticizing as reprehensible were laws aimed at improving treatment of indentured servants which were heads and shoulders above that of their neighbors.

So ALL slaves in the Iron Age were indentured servants? Oh an we've also outlawed indentured servitude so once again we see than morals of mere humans are superior to that of your god.

You have proof of that that doesn't come from the bible? In fact your own bible proves you wrong

Leviticus 24:44-46

44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

That passage doe NOT describe indentured servitude

And how does the rule as you call it that allows a man to beat a slave as long as he doesn;t die while he his being beaten?

Tell me would you petition your local government to stone your rebellious son to death?

If you lived by the reprehensible morals of the bible you would have to

The bible is not the place to hone one's sense of morals and ethics

 

[Blues Man]

That was the old law in the Old Testament. That is the way Paul was raised to believe so he would persecute the Christians for doing the things the old law forbid the Jews from doing.

God brought about a new law in the New Testament and God put his new law into our hearts and minds. The new law is a law unto love. It is a nonviolent law. You see Jesus teaching it

Matthew 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.

Rather than killing Christians Paul now preaches love; God's law of love.

After saying that we should pay whatever we owe, Paul shifts the subject back to love: “Owe no one anything, except to love one another” (13:8; 12:9-10). Love is the most basic Christian ethic. We will always need to love one another; it is an eternal obligation. Romans 13:8-14

“For the commandments, ‘Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not covet,’ (and if there is any other commandment) are summed up in this, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself’” (13:9; cf. Matthew 22:36).

Therefore we are under the NT law of love because God did away with the old law of the OT.

So now you are telling me the OT is irrelevant

If the OT is irrelevant then you must b worshipping a different god than the god in the OT right?

And why would a perfect all knowing being have to change its mind so drastically?

It's just more evidence that the bible is not divinely inspired but is rather a hodgepodge of Iron Age 'wisdom"

 

[crossbody]

So now you are telling me the OT is irrelevant

If the OT is irrelevant then you must b worshipping a different god than the god in the OT right?

And why would a perfect all knowing being have to change its mind so drastically?

It's just more evidence that the bible is not divinely inspired but is rather a hodgepodge of Iron Age 'wisdom"

You're making that up. I'm not sure why you made that lie up, but that is something I would never say-not ever. I'm done with this.

 

[Blues Man]

You're making that up. I'm not sure why you made that lie up, but that is something I would never say-not ever. I'm done with this.

What lie?

That you worship a different god than the one Jews and Muslims worship ?
Or that your god had a radical change of heart and told you not to worry about anything in the OT?

 

[crossbody]

What lie?

That you worship a different god than the one Jews and Muslims worship ?
Or that your god had a radical change of heart and told you not to worry about anything in the OT?

May God bless you.

 

[Blues Man]

May God bless you.

Have a nice day

 

[ding]

So ALL slaves in the Iron Age were indentured servants?

We are talking about the slaves of the people you criticized for establishing higher standards than their neighbors. The Torah’s two categories of slaves: the Eved K’naani (non-Jewish slave) and the Eved Ivri (Jewish slave). The former refers to slaves who remain so for a lifetime; the latter refers to indentured servants trying to pay off a debt or raise money for their families. The Eved Ivri works for a set period of time, and then goes free. The Torah, with its mandated release of Jewish slaves, and protections for all slaves improves upon the usual conditions of slaves. The Torah makes enslaving others difficult, if not impossible. No Jew may own another person, and strict constraints limit how long a person may be held as an indentured servant before the debt is paid off. It is relevant to note that later rabbis eliminated the category of the Eved Ivri and ceased to exist after the exile of the 10 northern tribes of Israel. Regarding non-Jewish slaves who flees his master the Israelite authorities are obligated to extend to such a slave their patronage and concern, and according to Maimonides’ system (Laws of Slaves 8:10), which is affirmed in the Shulchan Aruch (Yoreh De’ah 167:85), they must bring about the freeing of the slave, and towards this purpose they must offer the owner these options: either he writes the slave a bill of manumission and accepts in return an IOU for the slave’s monetary worth, or if he refuses the court will annul the enslavement and the slave will go free. In other words, the slaveholder loses ownership of the slave either way; the choice he has is whether to comply with the court’s order, in which case he is compensated for the money he invested in the slave to begin with, or to resist, in which case he loses everything. Either way, owning slaves — even non-Jewish ones — is not acceptable.

Does the Bible Condone Slavery? | My Jewish Learning

Many readers of the Torah are shocked and disturbed when they discover its seemingly approving references to slavery.Yes. The Torah ...

www.myjewishlearning.com

 

[Blues Man]

We are talking about the slaves of the people you criticized for establishing higher standards than their neighbors. The Torah’s two categories of slaves: the Eved K’naani (non-Jewish slave) and the Eved Ivri (Jewish slave). The former refers to slaves who remain so for a lifetime; the latter refers to indentured servants trying to pay off a debt or raise money for their families. The Eved Ivri works for a set period of time, and then goes free. The Torah, with its mandated release of Jewish slaves, and protections for all slaves improves upon the usual conditions of slaves. The Torah makes enslaving others difficult, if not impossible. No Jew may own another person, and strict constraints limit how long a person may be held as an indentured servant before the debt is paid off. It is relevant to note that later rabbis eliminated the category of the Eved Ivri and ceased to exist after the exile of the 10 northern tribes of Israel. Regarding non-Jewish slaves who flees his master the Israelite authorities are obligated to extend to such a slave their patronage and concern, and according to Maimonides’ system (Laws of Slaves 8:10), which is affirmed in the Shulchan Aruch (Yoreh De’ah 167:85), they must bring about the freeing of the slave, and towards this purpose they must offer the owner these options: either he writes the slave a bill of manumission and accepts in return an IOU for the slave’s monetary worth, or if he refuses the court will annul the enslavement and the slave will go free. In other words, the slaveholder loses ownership of the slave either way; the choice he has is whether to comply with the court’s order, in which case he is compensated for the money he invested in the slave to begin with, or to resist, in which case he loses everything. Either way, owning slaves — even non-Jewish ones — is not acceptable.

Does the Bible Condone Slavery? | My Jewish Learning

Many readers of the Torah are shocked and disturbed when they discover its seemingly approving references to slavery.Yes. The Torah ...

www.myjewishlearning.com

No I am talking about slavery in the bible.

YOU are implying that it was all voluntary. It wasn't as the passage from Leviticus illustrates.

 

[ding]

Leviticus 24:44-46

It's not chapter 24. It's chapter 25. And you conveniently stopped at verse 46 when you should have included verses 47-55 because it didn't fit your narrative.

 

[ding]

Leviticus 18:3 You shall not do as they do in the land of Egypt, where you once lived, nor shall you do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you; do not conform to their customs.

 

[Blues Man]

It's not chapter 24. It's chapter 25. And you conveniently stopped at verse 46 when you should have included verses 47-55 because it didn't fit your narrative.

OOOOHHHHHHH a simple typo

And as long as your SLAVES are not Israelites anything goes.

 

[Blues Man]

Leviticus 18:3 You shall not do as they do in the land of Egypt, where you once lived, nor shall you do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you; do not conform to their customs.

And yet slavery was still allowed as long as you didn't enslave another Israelite.

 

[ding]

OOOOHHHHHHH a simple typo

And as long as your SLAVES are not Israelites anything goes.

You conveniently stopped at verse 46 because verses 47-55 didn't fit your narrative.

 

[ding]

And yet slavery was still allowed as long as you didn't enslave another Israelite.

Yes, it was and your criticism is they should have done more.

 

[Blues Man]

You conveniently stopped at verse 46 because verses 47-55 didn't fit your narrative.

Yes because your god only ordered that Israelites not be mistreated or enslaved. You like to ignore that part don't you?

 

[Blues Man]

Yes, it was and your criticism is they should have done more.

YEs Israelites are not the only humans on the planet in case you didn't know that.

How is that any different than Koran saying slavery is OK as long as you don't enslave another Muslim?

The answer is there is no difference yet you would criticize Islam for such a thing wouldn't you?

 

[ding]

Yes because your god only ordered that Israelites not be mistreated or enslaved. You like to ignore that part don't you?

You believe the bible is fiction, right? So how can you even be making this argument?

 

[ding]

YEs Israelites are not the only humans on the planet in case you didn't know that.

How is that any different than Koran saying slavery is OK as long as you don't enslave another Muslim?

The answer is there is no difference yet you would criticize Islam for such a thing wouldn't you?

And your criticism is they should have done more.

 

[Blues Man]

You believe the bible is fiction, right? So how can you even be making this argument?

It is fiction. I am criticizing the "morality" you say is THE TRUTH. You won't admit that you discarded most of the moral commands in the bible and replaced them with something different.

Or maybe you really do think your rebellious son should be stoned to death in the village square.

 

[Blues Man]

And your criticism is they should have done more.

Your god should have abolished slavery. Like we mere imperfect humans did.