Zone1 Morality is natural phenomenon.

[crossbody]

It never did mean that. We all had it wrong, and needed to learn the real truth about that.

Think about school teachers who cannot hit a child. In order to get a child to do what they say, and in order to redirect a child's behavior they have to use the love of classroom rules, the love of second chances, the love of expectations.

As far as the Ten Commandments goes the first four about loving God, and the last six are about loving others. There is no way we can function daily without keeping the Ten Commandments. Our love is locked into them.

God has taught us morality. He has put his word into our hearts and minds. It is no longer written on tablets it is now in us. The Book of Proverbs is full of moral instructions God has taught us.

So the bible is not the "real truth"

And there are still states in this country that allow teachers to hit children and guess what? Those the the most religious states.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/08/10/school-paddling-corporal-punishment/

The Holy Bible is the ONLY truth we have on earth. As God cannot lie, but everyone else can.

 

[Blues Man]

So the bible is not the "real truth" The only way to really know what the bible says is that everyone has to be an expert in ancient languages?

And there are still states in this country that allow teachers to hit children and guess what? Those the the most religious states.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/08/10/school-paddling-corporal-punishment/

The Holy Bible is the ONLY truth we have on earth. As God cannot lie, but everyone else can.

No it's not.

It's a book of Iron Age philosophy

 

[crossbody]

So the bible is not the "real truth" The only way to really know what the bible says is that everyone has to be an expert in ancient languages?

And there are still states in this country that allow teachers to hit children and guess what? Those the the most religious states.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/08/10/school-paddling-corporal-punishment/

And what are the punishments for breaking any of the 10?

Death. But you're probably going to say that we got that wrong too and death doesn't really mean that you will be killed right?

The Holy Bible is the ONLY truth we have on earth. As God cannot lie, but everyone else can.

No it's not.

It's a book of Iron Age philosophy

so what exactly is your interest in the Bible?

 

[Blues Man]

The Holy Bible is the ONLY truth we have on earth. As God cannot lie, but everyone else can.

so what exactly is your interest in the Bible?

This thread isn;t about the bible it's about morals.

So I am speaking of the moral demands that you people say a god dictated to us and I am criticizing some of those morals as barbaric.

And I am pointing out that even you zealots do not follow ALL the moral edicts in the bible that you say is a divine book. That you have actually made better choices than your god demands of you. Your morals are superior to those of the god you worship in many ways

 

[crossbody]

This thread isn;t about the bible it's about morals.

So I am speaking of the moral demands that you people say a god dictated to us and I am criticizing some of those morals as barbaric.

And I am pointing out that even you zealots do not follow ALL the moral edicts in the bible that you say is a divine book. That you have actually made better choices than your god demands of you. Your morals are superior to those of the god you worship in many ways

It's a spiritual process; a spiritual journey. It is a death; a dying to the flesh and becoming a new creation in Christ Jesus. Morality for a believer is one way-God's moral way through Jesus. We shed the flesh/sin, and we walk in the newness of Christ Jesus.

It's all a choice. Everyone must make their own choice.

 

[Blues Man]

It's a spiritual process; a spiritual journey. It is a death; a dying to the flesh and becoming a new creation in Christ Jesus. Morality for a believer is one way-God's moral way through Jesus. We shed the flesh/sin, and we walk in the newness of Christ Jesus.

It's all a choice. Everyone must make their own choice.

Jesus thought slavery was OK. If you don't then you are not believing as Jesus did.
I would say your morals are actually better than the "perfect" morals of Jesus.

 

[crossbody]

Jesus thought slavery was OK. If you don't then you are not believing as Jesus did.
I would say your morals are actually better than the "perfect" morals of Jesus.

Jesus never thought slavery was ok. Jesus freed people from the bondage of sickness and disease and from the bondage of paralysis and mental illness. Jesus always went about healing people and freeing them from whatever had them bound.

 

[Blues Man]

Jesus never thought slavery was ok. Jesus freed people from bondage of sickness and disease and from bondage of paralysis and mental bondage. Jesus always went about healing people and freeing them from whatever had them bound.

And yet Jesus never ordered as the son of a god that people to free their slaves did he?
Your god himself never ordered the end of slavery and it seems he thought not observing the Sabbath was a worse crime than human bondage

And there there is the idea that Jesus and your god are the same person so what the god of the OT did Jesus also did.

Then you tell me that this "word of god" cannot be questioned and must be taken as "THE TRUTH"

 

[crossbody]

And yet Jesus never ordered as the son of a god that people to free their slaves did he?
Your god himself never ordered the end of slavery and it seems he thought not observing the Sabbath was a worse crime than human bondage

And there there is the idea that Jesus and your god are the same person so what the god of the OT did Jesus also did.

Then you tell me that this "word of god" cannot be questioned and must be taken as "THE TRUTH"

God freed those held in bondage in Egypt. That became known as the Exodus. God and Jesus both are against slavery.

 

[Meriweather]

As far as beating a child with a stick/rod that is NOT Biblical. God never told anyone to beat a child, nor hit a child with anything. People have been lying on God. Most people have always misunderstood that verse of scripture.

In Biblical times shepherds with their sheep was a common sight. Shepherds had rods used to guide their sheep to right pastures, to prevent them from eating what was not good for them, to steer them away from cliffs. They also used this rod to protect their sheep.

"Spare the rod" in Biblical times brought to mind someone who was not guiding children in right ways and keeping them away from the evil in the world. They were not protecting their children. "Do not neglect your children" might be the best translation of that Biblical idiom, although I very much like your 'rod of love' imagery as well.

 

[buttercup]

So slaves were "servants" nice euphemism.

Denying that slavery in the Iron Age was somehow a less than reprehensible crime against humanity is utter stupidity
And now not agreeing with you is "hatred"? I don't hate anyone. That's you projecting.

I guess unlike you I don't believe human sacrifice and the torture of a human being solves anything or absolves the "sins" of people who haven't been born yet.

But then again I don't believe that people are all hopeless, wicked sinners who are utterly incapable of behaving unless they are under threat of death and torture from a "all loving" god

What I stated is a known fact, and only an ignorant person or an extremely hateful atheist thinks that all slavery in history is just like the racial involuntary slavery of America's past.

And yes, you are hateful. I never said that you're hateful towards me and that's not what I meant. You hate God. You hate the Bible, you hate Christianity.

And you're getting more and more extreme with every post.

Even when people correct you and tell you over and over and over and over and over that Christianity is not about Old Testament temporal laws that only applied to a specific people group for a specific time....you constantly act as if those are CHRISTIAN teachings.

I have explained to you numerous times that there's a difference between the temporal laws that were part of an Old Covenant that only applied to the Jewish people of that time, and God's TIMELESS moral laws that are applicable today, for everyone.

You constantly ignore the latter, and always point to the former.... which the first time might have been an innocent mistake, but when you've been corrected over and over and over, it's becoming more and more clear that it's just plain dishonest. And I hate to think of you as a dishonest person, but since you ignore what people tell you and continue to post things that are demonstable lies, what other conclusion can I come to?

It's truly sad to me that you ignore 98% of people's posts and you ignore most of what the New Testament says and what Christianity actually teaches, only to focus on your ignorant, false, hilariously warped caricature that exists in your mind due to your extreme anti-Christian hatred.

And with that said, I think it's time for me to take another break from here. Not because of you, there's a lot of disappointing (to put it mildly) stuff that goes on here, and it just gets to be too much to take sometimes.

 

[ding]

What I stated is a known fact, and only an ignorant person or an extremely hateful atheist thinks that all slavery in history is just like the racial involuntary slavery of America's past.

And yes, you are hateful. I never said that you're hateful towards me and that's not what I meant. You hate God. You hate the Bible, you hate Christianity.

And you're getting more and more extreme with every post.

Even when people correct you and tell you over and over and over and over and over that Christianity is not about Old Testament temporal laws that only applied to a specific people group for a specific time....you constantly act as if those are CHRISTIAN teachings.

I have explained to you numerous times that there's a difference between the temporal laws that were part of an Old Covenant that only applied to the Jewish people of that time, and God's TIMELESS moral laws that are applicable today, for everyone.

You constantly ignore the latter, and always point to the former.... which the first time might have been an innocent mistake, but when you've been corrected over and over and over, it's becoming more and more clear that it's just plain dishonest. And I hate to think of you as a dishonest person, but since you ignore what people tell you and continue to post things that are demonstable lies, what other conclusion can I come to?

It's truly sad to me that you ignore 98% of people's posts and you ignore most of what the New Testament says and what Christianity actually teaches, only to focus on your ignorant, false, hilariously warped caricature that exists in your mind due to your extreme anti-Christian hatred.

And with that said, I think it's time for me to take another break from here. Not because of you, there's a lot of disappointing (to put it mildly) stuff that goes on here, and it just gets to be too much to take sometimes.

Correct. They fail to recognize two things; indentured servitude and the laws they are criticizing were aimed at improving the treatment of indentured servants and was heads and should above that of their neighbors.

 

[Foxfyre]

I am saying that we do not need to appeal to supernatural authorities in order to decide which behaviors are harmful to people.

That 's all morals and morality are

And I am saying that if we listen and respond to that higher power, we will be far less likely to engage in behaviors that are harmful to the innocent, less likely to engage in cultural processes that are harmful to ourselves and others. Which is what morality is.

 

[Foxfyre]

So then there is not only right or wrong as you stated earlier

And now you are arguing morals as a subjective cultural based set of rules. Doesn't that conflict with the morals come from the Abrahamic god argument?

I am saying that there is right and wrong. I am saying there is good and evil. Morality choose right over wrong. It chooses good over evil. And I believe that conscience that helps us determine what is right and what is good is far more likely to come from what you call the 'Abrahamic God' than it is likely to come from anything else.

 

[Blues Man]

God freed those held in bondage in Egypt. That became known as the Exodus. God and Jesus both are against slavery.

Only Jewish people who were slaves. Remember your god favors the Jews above all others.

But here's another lovely piece of your god's morality

Leviticus 20:9

“‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death. Because they have cursed their father or mother, their blood will be on their own head.

Or this from Deuteronomy 21

18 If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” 21 Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death


Do you live by these moral commands of your god?

I'll bet good money you don't

 

[Blues Man]

What I stated is a known fact, and only an ignorant person or an extremely hateful atheist thinks that all slavery in history is just like the racial involuntary slavery of America's past.

And yes, you are hateful. I never said that you're hateful towards me and that's not what I meant. You hate God. You hate the Bible, you hate Christianity.

And you're getting more and more extreme with every post.

Even when people correct you and tell you over and over and over and over and over that Christianity is not about Old Testament temporal laws that only applied to a specific people group for a specific time....you constantly act as if those are CHRISTIAN teachings.

I have explained to you numerous times that there's a difference between the temporal laws that were part of an Old Covenant that only applied to the Jewish people of that time, and God's TIMELESS moral laws that are applicable today, for everyone.

You constantly ignore the latter, and always point to the former.... which the first time might have been an innocent mistake, but when you've been corrected over and over and over, it's becoming more and more clear that it's just plain dishonest. And I hate to think of you as a dishonest person, but since you ignore what people tell you and continue to post things that are demonstable lies, what other conclusion can I come to?

It's truly sad to me that you ignore 98% of people's posts and you ignore most of what the New Testament says and what Christianity actually teaches, only to focus on your ignorant, false, hilariously warped caricature that exists in your mind due to your extreme anti-Christian hatred.

And with that said, I think it's time for me to take another break from here. Not because of you, there's a lot of disappointing (to put it mildly) stuff that goes on here, and it just gets to be too much to take sometimes.

Really a known fact that ALL slaves in the Iron Age voluntarily sold themselves into bondage.

Give me a source other than the bible.

The morals of the Abrahamic god are reprehensible and that you defend them shows the depth of your delusions.

 

[Blues Man]

And I am saying that if we listen and respond to that higher power, we will be far less likely to engage in behaviors that are harmful to the innocent, less likely to engage in cultural processes that are harmful to ourselves and others. Which is what morality is.

I disagree.

The morals this higher power you speak of set out in the bible are reprehensible and I know you do not obey them.

Would you kill your child if he cursed at you?
Would you take your rebellious son to the local government and have him stoned to death?
Would you kill your spouse for committing adultery?

I know you don't.

You know you don't.

So if this perfect all loving higher power tells you to kill your rebellious son why don't you?

 

[ding]

Really a known fact that ALL slaves in the Iron Age voluntarily sold themselves into bondage.

Give me a source other than the bible.

The morals of the Abrahamic god are reprehensible and that you defend them shows the depth of your delusions.

Indentured servants. And what you are criticizing as reprehensible were laws aimed at improving treatment of indentured servants which were heads and shoulders above that of their neighbors.

 

[crossbody]

Only Jewish people who were slaves. Remember your god favors the Jews above all others.

But here's another lovely piece of your god's morality

Leviticus 20:9

“‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death. Because they have cursed their father or mother, their blood will be on their own head.

Or this from Deuteronomy 21

18 If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” 21 Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death


Do you live by these moral commands of your god?

I'll bet good money you don't

That was the old law in the Old Testament. That is the way Paul was raised to believe so he would persecute the Christians for doing the things the old law forbid the Jews from doing.

God brought about a new law in the New Testament and God put his new law into our hearts and minds. The new law is a law unto love. It is a nonviolent law. You see Jesus teaching it

Matthew 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.

Rather than killing Christians Paul now preaches love; God's law of love.

After saying that we should pay whatever we owe, Paul shifts the subject back to love: “Owe no one anything, except to love one another” (13:8; 12:9-10). Love is the most basic Christian ethic. We will always need to love one another; it is an eternal obligation. Romans 13:8-14

“For the commandments, ‘Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not covet,’ (and if there is any other commandment) are summed up in this, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself’” (13:9; cf. Matthew 22:36).

Therefore we are under the NT law of love because God did away with the old law of the OT.

 

[Foxfyre]

I disagree.

The morals this higher power you speak of set out in the bible are reprehensible and I know you do not obey them.

Would you kill your child if he cursed at you?
Would you take your rebellious son to the local government and have him stoned to death?
Would you kill your spouse for committing adultery?

I know you don't.

You know you don't.

So if this perfect all loving higher power tells you to kill your rebellious son why don't you?

My higher power, a higher power available to all who seek Him, has never asked me to harm another human being or another creature. How ancient people understood him and how we understand Him after he walked on Earth and lived among us are entirely two separate things.