McCain's "War Hero" Status in Extreme Doubt. Trump Was Right ?

[JakeStarkey]

My love me shadow box is not that prestigious, for sure, but I did not foul up the Iran hostage rescue attempt and then try to cover my failure up.

Wouldn't matter if Hackworth ever did do that. The OP is about what Mc
Cain did, not Hackworth.

Doesn't work that way. You brought up Hackworth. Yes, Hackworth did do that. McCain is a hero. End of storty.

 

[JakeStarkey]

How about we read the account of one of his fellow prisoners?
I Spent Years as a POW with John McCain and His Finger Should Not Be Near the Red Button Alternet


1) Was he tortured for 5 years? No. He was subjected to torture and maltreatment during his first 2 years, from September of 1967 to September of 1969. After September of 1969 the Vietnamese stopped the torture and gave us increased food and rudimentary health care. Several hundred of us were captured much earlier. I got there April 20, 1965 so my bad treatment period lasted 4 1/2 years.....

2) John was badly injured when he was shot down. Both arms were broken and he had other wounds from his ejection. Unfortunately this was often the case -- new POW's arriving with broken bones and serious combat injuries. Many died from their wounds. Medical care was non-existent to rudimentary. Relief from pain was almost never given and often the wounds were used as an available way to torture the POW. Because John's father was the Naval Commander in the Pacific theater, he was exploited with TV interviews while wounded. These film clips have now been widely seen. But it must be known that many POW's suffered similarly, not just John. And many were similarly exploited for political propaganda.

3) John was offered, and refused, "early release." Many of us were given this offer. It meant speaking out against your country and lying about your treatment to the press. You had to "admit" that the U.S. was criminal and that our treatment was "lenient and humane." So I, like numerous others, refused the offer. This was obviously something none of us could accept. Besides, we were bound by our service regulations, Geneva Conventions and loyalties to refuse early release until all the POW's were released, with the sick and wounded going first.

4) John was awarded a Silver Star and Purple Heart for heroism and wounds in combat. This heroism has been played up in the press and in his various political campaigns. But it should be known that there were approximately 600 military POW's in Vietnam. Among all of us, decorations awarded have recently been totaled to the following: Medals of Honor -- 8, Service Crosses -- 42, Silver Stars -- 590, Bronze Stars -- 958 and Purple Hearts -- 1,249. John certainly performed courageously and well. But it must be remembered that he was one hero among many -- not uniquely so as his campaigns would have people believe.

John McCain served his time as a POW with great courage, loyalty and tenacity. More than 600 of us did the same. After our repatriation a census showed that 95% of us had been tortured at least once. The Vietnamese were quite democratic about it. There were many heroes in North Vietnam. I saw heroism every day there. And we motivated each other to endure and succeed far beyond what any of us thought we had in ourselves. Succeeding as a POW is a group sport, not an individual one. We all supported and encouraged each other to survive and succeed. John knows that. He was not an individual POW hero. He was a POW who surmounted the odds with the help of many comrades, as all of us did.

Sounds like a commercial paid program, on TV at 4 o'clock in the morning.

Maybe you missed it that other POWs have said the opposite of what you posted here, and the CLAIMS of torture are nothing more than alleged claims from McCain, no other POW having witnessed.

We know that outliers like you many sill things in many silly ways on many topics. All of that is worthless. McCain is a hero.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yes, you do. And, yes, McCain is a hero.

Watch this video: John McCain in "Missing, Presumed Dead"

John McCain in Missing Presumed Dead - YouTube

John McCain was the primary opposition to the Senate Select Committee on POWs. He bitterly opposed any attempt to rescue any other POWs.

This is very strange since John McCain was himself, a POW.

The POWs that might have been rescued would have been able to give testimony about the 32 propaganda tapes that John McCain made for the communists, while in Vietnam.

The 32 propaganda tapes are still "classified" so that no one can see them.

Vietnam Veterans Against McCain



Vietnam Veterans call John McCain a collaborator

A display of typically outlier nonsense. Now we know McCain was a hero.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

This thread leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Nobody here knows what it's like to be a POW in a hostile land, nobody knows what it's like to be tortured for information, and nobody could say for certain they would hold up and hold true through intense and painful interrogation. This is seriously ignorant and judgmental speculation and a shameful slander of one of our war heroes.

Shame on you, Steve McGarrett, you racist POS.

 

[JakeStarkey]

A fallacy of false comparison that means nothing is "When was the last time you visited a memorial to the American Military where there was a bust of the enemy? "

 

[JakeStarkey]

"The commonly held notion that tabloid magazines like the Globe, have no credibility is dead" accurate. Let's move along.

 

[namvet]

the gooks were not dependent on McCain or any POW to win. they put all their cards on the US media and gook lovers like Kerry and Fonda to win it for them. it worked. they won. in the 07 election the liberal left gooks....ah goons, paid vets to say bad things about him. even producing a fake newspaper clipping saying he blew up the Forrestal.

 

[rightwinger]

Why do Conservatives swiftboat our veterans?
Have they no decency?
Can you imagine if a liberal pulled this shit?

Nice try. stupid.

Have you no decency?

 

[rightwinger]

Yes, you do. And, yes, McCain is a hero.

The Communist Vietnamese erected a bust of John McCain inside Vietnam. His defenders say that it is in tribute to the PAVN gunners that shot him down. When was the last time you visited a memorial to the American Military where there was a bust of the enemy? In North Vietnam, for all the military information McCain gave away, he is regarded as a hero all right > BY THE NORTH VIETNAMESE.

Bust of the enemy?

 

[Syriusly]

How about we read the account of one of his fellow prisoners?
I Spent Years as a POW with John McCain and His Finger Should Not Be Near the Red Button Alternet


1) Was he tortured for 5 years? No. He was subjected to torture and maltreatment during his first 2 years, from September of 1967 to September of 1969. After September of 1969 the Vietnamese stopped the torture and gave us increased food and rudimentary health care. Several hundred of us were captured much earlier. I got there April 20, 1965 so my bad treatment period lasted 4 1/2 years.....

2) John was badly injured when he was shot down. Both arms were broken and he had other wounds from his ejection. Unfortunately this was often the case -- new POW's arriving with broken bones and serious combat injuries. Many died from their wounds. Medical care was non-existent to rudimentary. Relief from pain was almost never given and often the wounds were used as an available way to torture the POW. Because John's father was the Naval Commander in the Pacific theater, he was exploited with TV interviews while wounded. These film clips have now been widely seen. But it must be known that many POW's suffered similarly, not just John. And many were similarly exploited for political propaganda.

3) John was offered, and refused, "early release." Many of us were given this offer. It meant speaking out against your country and lying about your treatment to the press. You had to "admit" that the U.S. was criminal and that our treatment was "lenient and humane." So I, like numerous others, refused the offer. This was obviously something none of us could accept. Besides, we were bound by our service regulations, Geneva Conventions and loyalties to refuse early release until all the POW's were released, with the sick and wounded going first.

4) John was awarded a Silver Star and Purple Heart for heroism and wounds in combat. This heroism has been played up in the press and in his various political campaigns. But it should be known that there were approximately 600 military POW's in Vietnam. Among all of us, decorations awarded have recently been totaled to the following: Medals of Honor -- 8, Service Crosses -- 42, Silver Stars -- 590, Bronze Stars -- 958 and Purple Hearts -- 1,249. John certainly performed courageously and well. But it must be remembered that he was one hero among many -- not uniquely so as his campaigns would have people believe.

John McCain served his time as a POW with great courage, loyalty and tenacity. More than 600 of us did the same. After our repatriation a census showed that 95% of us had been tortured at least once. The Vietnamese were quite democratic about it. There were many heroes in North Vietnam. I saw heroism every day there. And we motivated each other to endure and succeed far beyond what any of us thought we had in ourselves. Succeeding as a POW is a group sport, not an individual one. We all supported and encouraged each other to survive and succeed. John knows that. He was not an individual POW hero. He was a POW who surmounted the odds with the help of many comrades, as all of us did.

Sounds like a commercial paid program, on TV at 4 o'clock in the morning.

Maybe you missed it that other POWs have said the opposite of what you posted here, and the CLAIMS of torture are nothing more than alleged claims from McCain, no other POW having witnessed.

No- I am not missing the point at all. This is an account of a POW who was arguing against McCain being qualified to be President- and even with that account- he acknowledges McCain's honorable service.

You- like far too many people- are willing to throw combat veterans under the bus because of your political agenda- and attack their service- and sacrifice.

Shame on you.

 

[Syriusly]

This thread leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Nobody here knows what it's like to be a POW in a hostile land, nobody knows what it's like to be tortured for information, and nobody could say for certain they would hold up and hold true through intense and painful interrogation. This is seriously ignorant and judgmental speculation and a shameful slander of one of our war heroes.

Shame on you, Steve McGarrett, you racist POS.

On occasion we agree completely.

 

[Syriusly]

If McCain was not a traitor back in the day then he would have quickly earned the title had he been elected president. At least many of us knew Obama was an ineffectual liar before he was elected but too many never questioned McCain.

Like I said- Conservatives love to attack combat veterans

Like you LUDICROUSLY said. Everyone knows Conservatives are far more supportive of all veterans than liberals, who disparage and spit at veterans. And, by far, most veterans are conservatives.

Military Veterans of All Ages Tend to Be More Republican

Unfortunately political Conservatives like yourself are always ready to trash a veterans combat service to score political points.

 

[Camp]

It comes down to a few handful of vet's disgruntled over McCain's viewpoints of the POW/MIA issue. McCain sided with the National League of Families and the Pentagon authorities on the issue. The League of Families represented the immediate relatives of those missing in Southeast Asia. The bulk of them had relatives that were BNR's, body not recovered. Those were persons who where believed to have been killed in action but whose bodies could not be recovered due to circumstances, but whose death was testified to with a certain level of certainty by fellow American witnesses. A prime example would be an aircraft exploding on a clear day over water and seen by other aircraft crew to have been unsurvivable and gone down with no parachutes seen. Subsequent searches for debris were unsuccessful, hence, body not recovered.
The League of Families, Pentagon and McCain believed those promoting the idea that living American POW/MIA's continued to be held in Vietnam and Laos were simply scams to collect funds for "rescues" and "private searches" and persons honestly hoodwinked by the hucksters. McCain was not the only former POW or veteran that felt this way, including the Vietnam Veterans of America, but he was certainly the most visible and the issue for the majority of former POW's was one they preferred to stay away from.
McCain's biggest downfall with veterans came when two founders of the Rolling Thunder POW/MIA annual motorcycle rally, a group with a huge audience joined with the anti McCain supporters of GW Bush and began the swift boating of McCain during the primaries, particularly in South Carolina. From there it just mushroomed into a sort of small cottage industry.
What is seen today are the remnants of that long ago chapter in dirty politics and malicious trickery in American politics.

 

[namvet]

If McCain was not a traitor back in the day then he would have quickly earned the title had he been elected president. At least many of us knew Obama was an ineffectual liar before he was elected but too many never questioned McCain.

Like I said- Conservatives love to attack combat veterans

Like you LUDICROUSLY said. Everyone knows Conservatives are far more supportive of all veterans than liberals, who disparage and spit at veterans. And, by far, most veterans are conservatives.

Military Veterans of All Ages Tend to Be More Republican

Unfortunately political Conservatives like yourself are always ready to trash a veterans combat service to score political points.

you live in the US ??

 

[Moonglow]

I hope Trump is happy losing the veterans vote....

 

[namvet]

It comes down to a few handful of vet's disgruntled over McCain's viewpoints of the POW/MIA issue. McCain sided with the National League of Families and the Pentagon authorities on the issue. The League of Families represented the immediate relatives of those missing in Southeast Asia. The bulk of them had relatives that were BNR's, body not recovered. Those were persons who where believed to have been killed in action but whose bodies could not be recovered due to circumstances, but whose death was testified to with a certain level of certainty by fellow American witnesses. A prime example would be an aircraft exploding on a clear day over water and seen by other aircraft crew to have been unsurvivable and gone down with no parachutes seen. Subsequent searches for debris were unsuccessful, hence, body not recovered.
The League of Families, Pentagon and McCain believed those promoting the idea that living American POW/MIA's continued to be held in Vietnam and Laos were simply scams to collect funds for "rescues" and "private searches" and persons honestly hoodwinked by the hucksters. McCain was not the only former POW or veteran that felt this way, including the Vietnam Veterans of America, but he was certainly the most visible and the issue for the majority of former POW's was one they preferred to stay away from.
McCain's biggest downfall with veterans came when two founders of the Rolling Thunder POW/MIA annual motorcycle rally, a group with a huge audience joined with the anti McCain supporters of GW Bush and began the swift boating of McCain during the primaries, particularly in South Carolina. From there it just mushroomed into a sort of small cottage industry.
What is seen today are the remnants of that long ago chapter in dirty politics and malicious trickery in American politics.

we swift boated Kerry's ass but not McCain that i remember

 

[namvet]

I hope Trump is happy losing the veterans vote....

he hasn't. Among current veterans, a full 53% view Trump favorably compared to just 41% for McCain.

 

[bodecea]

I said nothing about medals, I said he fucked up the Iran hostage rescue mission, and I say he tried to lie his way out of it, and was retired. He demeans himself, and you demean yourself by lying for him.

You're talking like an idiot. Hackworth is one of the greatest military heros this country has ever had. You just shot your credibility in the foot (if you ever had any)

Only bested by the likes of Duke Cunningham and Oliver North, right?

 

[bodecea]

Conservatives do love their witch hunts and character assassinations.

That's what liberals have been doing to Trump. This article unmasks the false character assassination of HIM.

From what I've seen, most liberals across the board are hoping that Trump gets the GOP nod.

Indeed. But, you see....someone has to lay the groundwork that Liberals hate Trump.

 

[bodecea]

I said nothing about medals, I said he fucked up the Iran hostage rescue mission, and I say he tried to lie his way out of it, and was retired. He demeans himself, and you demean yourself by lying for him.

You're talking like an idiot. Hackworth is one of the greatest military heros this country has ever had. You just shot your credibility in the foot (if you ever had any)

on the hostage rescue fiasco, and got caught.

And it doesn't matter what Republican gets the nomination. Hillary is in free fall. Biden's a joke. Sanders is too fringe. Demmies have lost already.

How nice that he self-promotes so much to makes sure that's online for you .