Zone1 Mary's sinlessness

[ding]

Jesus was clear to do all in his name. So, what is above the door, beside it, wherever, it better be named the Church of Jesus Christ. That eliminates most churches and you can focus on the one that is the true church of Jesus Christ.

There are doctrines and commandments. Then, there are administrative directives for a church. Many have a difficult time differentiating these. The Southern Baptist are the ones who preach against dancing and musical instruments. But, that isn't actually their doctrine nor a commandment. It's an administration directive that many again think it's their doctrine. Yet, it's not in the scriptures so it can't be. Growing up, a friend of mine who lived across the street, his dad was a Southern Baptist minister. His son played the guitar and sang. I played the drums and one time, he asked us to come in and play a song with Christian words in it. So, that told me it's not doctrine about music in general. And, the dancing, he let his kids go to the school dances. He cautioned them about how they danced and they mostly obeyed him.

What you are doing also is weak and more administrative. Yes, he gave two commandments and some other. But, to mean to get rid of all other commandments and ignore all the other ordinances required for salvation and exaltation is again, illogical. Jesus gave Apostles, prophets, evangelists, preachers, priests, teachers, deacons and so on. He also called the Seventy also. Yes, he most certainly had established a Church and most likely after His name. He clearly stated that to enter into the kingdom of God, Heaven, you had to be baptized by emersion in water and by fire meaning receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands by those with authority to do so. Sounds like a Church was established and congregations all over the middle east and into Rome. The problem was, they all apostatized within a few decades after the Lord's crucifixion. So, if there's a true Church with the True authority, it would have to be one that was a restoration, not a continuance or split off.

You have no life in you.

 

[Cougarbear]

You have no life in you.

Your pride damns you. What I posted is logical and full of truth. Instead of trying to point out why I might be wrong about a particular point, you slither back to being a name caller. Why? You are better than that? Name calling? How about a debate?

 

[ding]

Your pride damns you. What I posted is logical and full of truth. Instead of trying to point out why I might be wrong about a particular point, you slither back to being a name caller. Why? You are better than that? Name calling? How about a debate?

You are a religious nut job.

 

[Cougarbear]

You are a religious nut job.

More name calling instead of real logic and reasoning. This means I've won this debate. Loser.

 

[ding]

More name calling instead of real logic and reasoning. This means I've won this debate. Loser.

You place the form of religion above God.

 

[hadit]

Jesus was clear to do all in his name. So, what is above the door, beside it, wherever, it better be named the Church of Jesus Christ. That eliminates most churches and you can focus on the one that is the true church of Jesus Christ.

All who call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Jesus' Church exists in all denominations, and no denomination has an exclusive lock on Him at all.

There are doctrines and commandments. Then, there are administrative directives for a church. Many have a difficult time differentiating these. The Southern Baptist are the ones who preach against dancing and musical instruments.

Conservative Mennonites do as well. I should know, I was raised such.

But, that isn't actually their doctrine nor a commandment. It's an administration directive that many again think it's their doctrine. Yet, it's not in the scriptures so it can't be. Growing up, a friend of mine who lived across the street, his dad was a Southern Baptist minister. His son played the guitar and sang. I played the drums and one time, he asked us to come in and play a song with Christian words in it. So, that told me it's not doctrine about music in general. And, the dancing, he let his kids go to the school dances. He cautioned them about how they danced and they mostly obeyed him.

They opposed musical instruments in the church, so all worship music was acapella. It was amazing to hear 300 farmers who could sing perfect 4-part harmony with no backing instruments at all, only a pitch pipe blown before the song started. You could have instruments in your home, though that was frowned upon. My grandfather was nearly excommunicated for having a radio.

What you are doing also is weak and more administrative. Yes, he gave two commandments and some other. But, to mean to get rid of all other commandments and ignore all the other ordinances required for salvation and exaltation is again, illogical.

No one is ignoring them. On the contrary, when I love God with all my heart, I'm going to do as He directs.

Jesus gave Apostles, prophets, evangelists, preachers, priests, teachers, deacons and so on. He also called the Seventy also. Yes, he most certainly had established a Church and most likely after His name. He clearly stated that to enter into the kingdom of God, Heaven, you had to be baptized by emersion in water and by fire meaning receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands by those with authority to do so.

No, He did not. The thief on the cross beside Him had none of those advantages, yet Jesus took him to Paradise that very day. If He could do it for the thief, He can do it for me.

Sounds like a Church was established and congregations all over the middle east and into Rome. The problem was, they all apostatized within a few decades after the Lord's crucifixion. So, if there's a true Church with the True authority, it would have to be one that was a restoration, not a continuance or split off.

No, His Church has persisted in the hearts of all who call on His name and have a saving faith in Him. That's the Word, and no, another Word was not given in the last few centuries.

 

[Meriweather]

You stated:

"The Catechism of the Catholic Church states there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. I do believe it, but I also keep in mind that the Catechism of the Catholic Church also states that God is more powerful than the Church".

Correct.

That leads me to the conclusion that you admit the Church DOES claim exclusive ownership of the avenue to salvation, but simultaneously the Church says, "Not really", because God is greater than the Church. IOW, it's not an absolute, as is being preached by that other Catholic on here.

That happens when you take a wrong turn. You arrive at a wrong conclusion.

 

[Meriweather]

It sounds to me like you're saying you really, really want to wholeheartedly believe and support the statement, but you can't because you know it's not really true.

Then clean out your ears, or rinse out your eyes. I said I believe the statement, not that I "want" to believe it. Stop telling me what I am "really" believing. I.believe.the.statement. Period.

 

[Meriweather]

Here's where the rubber meets the road. When you stand before God's throne in worship and you look around, are you rubbing elbows with untold millions of Catholics, Orthodox, Lutherans, Baptists, Methodists, etc. or do you envision only Catholics with a bare sprinkling of others?

I can envision many scenarios as I am a perspective junky, which is another way of saying, "I have no way of knowing." I am comfortable with that. It's in the hands of God, and I trust completely the hand of God.

Where you jumped off track is jumping from 'salvation' to standing before God's throne. I am speaking of the here and now. Remember Jesus' words that the kingdom is within the reach of everyone, right here, right now? Remember him adding, and some prostitutes and tax collectors are making it in ahead of the more respected people in more respected professions? Then we can jump ahead to Paul's remark that we should work out our salvation with fear/awe and trembling. The atheists in my life are good people, but they are not, presently, on the Way of Salvation, that Jesus taught. He taught salvation was from the Jews, and they care nothing about information the Jews (Old Testament) provides. Jesus taught repentance and baptism, and they haven't practiced that either. Baptism and repentance pretty much requires that change of heart, daily, either that or perish. Jesus said to have this great spiritual life within you now, today, to have eternal life, one must eat his body and drink his blood, and will be raised up on the last day.

Eternal life does not mean "after death". It means eternal--no beginning no end--and we are taught we can enter into that eternal life in this life, right now, today.

I was never a big fan of having something after I die. Who cares about the hereafter when the present life is bombarding them. Get me through the today I am living, not the tomorrow when it's all over. Christ's teachings on salvation do exactly that. I have something, because not only do I feel it, the atheist around me sometimes do as well, and these are the times they come to me.

Will my loved ones be before the throne of God? I don't even worry about that. I trust God. The people I love, I know he loves more. That is my faith.

 

[Cougarbear]

You place the form of religion above God.

Not even close. Another losing rebut. Not even a rebut. Come on.

 

[gtopa1]

Your pride damns you. What I posted is logical and full of truth. Instead of trying to point out why I might be wrong about a particular point, you slither back to being a name caller. Why? You are better than that? Name calling? How about a debate?

My starting point.

https://franciscan-archive.org/scotus/opera/Monte-ST3-27.pdf

Greg

 

[Cougarbear]

All who call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Jesus' Church exists in all denominations, and no denomination has an exclusive lock on Him at all.


No one is ignoring them. On the contrary, when I love God with all my heart, I'm going to do as He directs.

No, He did not. The thief on the cross beside Him had none of those advantages, yet Jesus took him to Paradise that very day. If He could do it for the thief, He can do it for me.

No, His Church has persisted in the hearts of all who call on His name and have a saving faith in Him. That's the Word, and no, another Word was not given in the last few centuries.

Matthew 7:23, "23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." So no, not all that call on his name. And, you didn't answer the question that do ALL things in his name. Name a church, use his name to name it. Is that really all that hard? Yes! If Satan is is involved he will do anything to get rid of his name. As he did in the desert, DEPART!

If ye love him, keep his commandments. Be baptized by authority both water and spirit. He most certainly did start a church with Apostles and prophets and 70's and bishops, preachers, teachers and so on. How can you deny this? Ephesians all over the place. Also, you might want to read 1st Peter and the fact he went to spirit prison during the time he was between death and resurrection to preach to that thief and many millions of others who didn't have the complete opportunity in life.

 

[Cougarbear]

My starting point.

https://franciscan-archive.org/scotus/opera/Monte-ST3-27.pdf

Greg

Great! What are you trying to point out? What the heck is a Franciscan priesthood? The only ones in the Bible are Melchizedek and Aaronic priesthoods. What's a Franciscan or Jesuit? Made up when it was clear there are two Priesthoods and neither are Franciscan or Jesuit. But, again, why did you post this?

 

[ding]

Not even close. Another losing rebut. Not even a rebut. Come on.

Debating religious nut jobs who worship the form of religion instead of God is a waste of time.

 

[rstrats]

rstrats

You tell me.

I don't know. I thought maybe you did.

 

[ding]

I don't know. I thought maybe you did.

The account does not delve into what Jesus knew. The account only portrayed what Mary and Jesus said and what Jesus did. She made a passing comment on an observation she made. He said it’s not yet my time and then proceeded to act upon her comment.

 

[0311]

I don't know. I thought maybe you did.

She and Yosef were bumping uglies forever. AND NO she did NOT ride on the back of Donkey for 90-Miles in winter. Get ******* real.

 

[Cougarbear]

Debating religious nut jobs who worship the form of religion instead of God is a waste of time.

Our religion comes from a live God who reveals his secrets to his servants, our prophets. Your God is dead because you haven't heard from him for 2,000 years. Who's the nut job now?

 

[ding]

Our religion comes from a live God who reveals his secrets to his servants, our prophets. Your God is dead because you haven't heard from him for 2,000 years. Who's the nut job now?

You are. Nothing has changed.

 

[Cougarbear]

You are. Nothing has changed.

No, you are. Cut low. Your mother wears army boots. Again, your god is dead. Ours has clarified he actual being. He's no longer incomprehensible for me. My father in Heaven is literally my spirit Father. My Savior, Jesus Christ is my Lord and my literal spiritual brother. My Father and Lord are both separate and resurrected beings. We have clarifications of the Bible from the Lord through our Prophets. We have another testament of Jesus Christ, the book (stick) of Joseph (Ezekiel), a marvelous work and wonder (Isaiah), the Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price (Book of Abraham and Moses) and Doctrine and Covenants (Latter-day covenants and commandments). Our God is alive and talking with us. What is yours doing with 40,000 divided Church?