Martin Luther King believed in God given Rights; Why don't Libbies?

[NYcarbineer]

In the ten commandments "Thou shalt not kill"

And you can prove that the ten commandments came from God? As opposed to coming from Men who claimed to speak for God?

Its what I believe, as do billions of Christians world wide.

You are free to believe whatever you choose. I do not have to defend my beliefs to you or anyone else.

Some day we will know whose beliefs are correct

So your assertion that abortion is not a God given right is based not on any tangible evidence, but rather just on your personal opinion.

Thus, in the real world, the rules established for the governance of groups of humans are based only on those opinions that for one reason or another are able to be implemented.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Let's move this to the Bad Lands, since it is a racial attack on race relations instead of a politics thread.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Anyone who talks so stupidly about a "Marxist dictatorship" is a far right reactionary throwing around terms he does not understand.

 

[NYcarbineer]

As usual, the conservatives here claim that we have God given rights,

as long as conservatives get to tell us what those rights are, or aren't.

Rights in the USA are determined by the constitution and the bill of rights.

They are very clearly spelled out for us.

Its you on the far left who are trying to ignore some of them and misinterpret others.

Correct, government determines what rights exist and thus will be protected by government.

God does not give us the rights; we the People do.

 

[Sallow]

And you can prove that the ten commandments came from God? As opposed to coming from Men who claimed to speak for God?

It's a "commandment" that the far right deems has plenty of caveats.

Being they don't object to capital punishment, war, or stalking and shooting black kids.

Think of it as a 'suggestion'.

which people on the right think its OK to shoot black kids? give us some names. Are you still hung up on the Zimmerman case? He shot the thug in self defense, the jury acquitted him, its over.

capital punishment only occurs when the person has KILLED another person.

War is hell , no one wants war, whats wrong with you?

Seems you just pegged yourself with the "far right".

Case closed.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

As usual, the conservatives here claim that we have God given rights,

as long as conservatives get to tell us what those rights are, or aren't.

this is where you are wrong.....conservative thinking in America goes way back and is rooted in freedom of conscience.....

freedom of conscience has deep roots in Christianity.....Jesus came to teach but not to dictate to you...in Christianity your thoughts and actions are your own.....whether you sin or not is your choice.....your conscience is yours and yours alone...an unalienable right....

this is why i don't believe Obama is a Christian American as he claims to be....communists do not believe in freedom of conscience because their ultimate 'creator' or 'go-to' authority is the State not God.....leftie secularism demands that everybody obey their rules and State standards....thus they run roughshod over American freedom of conscience....their ultimate goal is to replace your freedom of conscience with their man-made State as the ultimate authority....

 

[Gadawg73]

My father was commissioned 2nd Lt. Quantico Va. 1942. Hit too many beaches to list and promoted in the field twice. His troop carrier was hit by a kamikaze offloading his troops at Okinawa killing 32 of his men.
Recalled to duty training troops at Camp Lejeune during the Korean War, retired with 17 years active and reserve duty. Taught school and then at universities. Coached high school football for 14 years. Dad was a liberal on most issues except many fiscal ones and he believed in God.
Blanket statements that "liberals do not believe in God" are only believed by the uninformed.

 

[Gadawg73]

As usual, the conservatives here claim that we have God given rights,

as long as conservatives get to tell us what those rights are, or aren't.

this is where you are wrong.....conservative thinking in America goes way back and is rooted in freedom of conscience.....

freedom of conscience has deep roots in Christianity.....Jesus came to teach but not to dictate to you...in Christianity your thoughts and actions are your own.....whether you sin or not is your choice.....your conscience is yours and yours alone...an unalienable right....

this is why i don't believe Obama is a Christian American as he claims to be....communists do not believe in freedom of conscience because their ultimate 'creator' or 'go-to' authority is the State not God.....leftie secularism demands that everybody obey their rules and State standards....thus they run roughshod over American freedom of conscience....their ultimate goal is to replace your freedom of conscience with their man-made State as the ultimate authority....

Conservative thinking in this country was founded on the principle that religion needs to stay the hell out of government. At the time this nation was founded EVERY government in Europe, including England, was run by a monarchy that claimed they received their divine right by God. The Founders ran like hell from that and specifically wrote in the Constitution that there shall be no religious mandate whatsoever for any public office.
Unlike all the European nations at that time where almost all the top officials had power with the Christian church, there was only one minister that signed the Declaration of Independence. Any and all references to God, Christianity or any particular religion were voted down when The Constitution was written.
The Founders specifically went out of their way to secularize the founding government of this great nation. They opposed any religious influences in the new government as that is what they fought against when they were subject to the monarchy that dictated by divine right from God.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Conservative thinking in this country was founded on the principle that religion needs to stay the hell out of government. At the time this nation was founded EVERY government in Europe, including England, was run by a monarchy that claimed they received their divine right by God. The Founders ran like hell from that and specifically wrote in the Constitution that there shall be no religious mandate whatsoever for any public office.
Unlike all the European nations at that time where almost all the top officials had power with the Christian church, there was only one minister that signed the Declaration of Independence. Any and all references to God, Christianity or any particular religion were voted down when The Constitution was written.
The Founders specifically went out of their way to secularize the founding government of this great nation. They opposed any religious influences in the new government as that is what they fought against when they were subject to the monarchy that dictated by divine right from God.

that is true....but today we are facing a new type of threat...and there is no God in it...

Communism is a belief system.......same as Christianity is a belief system.....however Communism is considered to be "secular" vs Christianity which is considered to be "religious"....

this is how they are getting away with destroying our basic rights.....by shoehorning their brand of "secularism" into our laws....like demanding a religious group or company not follow their conscience just because they are operating in the public market which they deem must be 'secular'....

 

[NYcarbineer]

As usual, the conservatives here claim that we have God given rights,

as long as conservatives get to tell us what those rights are, or aren't.

this is where you are wrong.....conservative thinking in America goes way back and is rooted in freedom of conscience.....

freedom of conscience has deep roots in Christianity.....Jesus came to teach but not to dictate to you...in Christianity your thoughts and actions are your own.....whether you sin or not is your choice.....your conscience is yours and yours alone...an unalienable right....

this is why i don't believe Obama is a Christian American as he claims to be....communists do not believe in freedom of conscience because their ultimate 'creator' or 'go-to' authority is the State not God.....leftie secularism demands that everybody obey their rules and State standards....thus they run roughshod over American freedom of conscience....their ultimate goal is to replace your freedom of conscience with their man-made State as the ultimate authority....

You should go argue with Redfish, who is basing his argument on citing God's COMMANDMENTS.

 

[Gadawg73]

Conservative thinking in this country was founded on the principle that religion needs to stay the hell out of government. At the time this nation was founded EVERY government in Europe, including England, was run by a monarchy that claimed they received their divine right by God. The Founders ran like hell from that and specifically wrote in the Constitution that there shall be no religious mandate whatsoever for any public office.
Unlike all the European nations at that time where almost all the top officials had power with the Christian church, there was only one minister that signed the Declaration of Independence. Any and all references to God, Christianity or any particular religion were voted down when The Constitution was written.
The Founders specifically went out of their way to secularize the founding government of this great nation. They opposed any religious influences in the new government as that is what they fought against when they were subject to the monarchy that dictated by divine right from God.

that is true....but today we are facing a new type of threat...and there is no God in it...

Communism is a belief system.......same as Christianity is a belief system.....however Communism is considered to be "secular" vs Christianity which is considered to be "religious"....

this is how they are getting away with destroying our basic rights.....by shoehorning their brand of "secularism" into our laws....like demanding a religious group or company not follow their conscience just because they are operating in the public market which they deem must be 'secular'....

In the 30s we had far more support for communism in this country than ever before, far more than now. We were in a deep recession and Russia was growing, most all false propaganda but many here bought into it, their "economy" with workers "rights".
Communism is dead now.
Socialism is growing rapidly but I doubt it ever will morph into communism here.
Anyone can follow their conscience if they do not pick and choose which citizens they do not like and who they do when they are in the public sector.
I find that sort of odd as I can pick and choose who to sell my car to but not my house.
But that is more to do with attempts at equal rights instead of religion.
Isn't it about time we start telling everyone that their religious beliefs should not be used to discriminate against others? No one stops parents from teaching their kids whatever they want to but when you bring that out into the public then you have stepped on the shoes of others. Isn't it a little silly to keep labeling gays and lesbians as 2nd class citizens because they choose to be who they are?

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Conservative thinking in this country was founded on the principle that religion needs to stay the hell out of government. At the time this nation was founded EVERY government in Europe, including England, was run by a monarchy that claimed they received their divine right by God. The Founders ran like hell from that and specifically wrote in the Constitution that there shall be no religious mandate whatsoever for any public office.
Unlike all the European nations at that time where almost all the top officials had power with the Christian church, there was only one minister that signed the Declaration of Independence. Any and all references to God, Christianity or any particular religion were voted down when The Constitution was written.
The Founders specifically went out of their way to secularize the founding government of this great nation. They opposed any religious influences in the new government as that is what they fought against when they were subject to the monarchy that dictated by divine right from God.

that is true....but today we are facing a new type of threat...and there is no God in it...

Communism is a belief system.......same as Christianity is a belief system.....however Communism is considered to be "secular" vs Christianity which is considered to be "religious"....

this is how they are getting away with destroying our basic rights.....by shoehorning their brand of "secularism" into our laws....like demanding a religious group or company not follow their conscience just because they are operating in the public market which they deem must be 'secular'....

In the 30s we had far more support for communism in this country than ever before, far more than now. We were in a deep recession and Russia was growing, most all false propaganda but many here bought into it, their "economy" with workers "rights".
Communism is dead now.
Socialism is growing rapidly but I doubt it ever will morph into communism here.
Anyone can follow their conscience if they do not pick and choose which citizens they do not like and who they do when they are in the public sector.
I find that sort of odd as I can pick and choose who to sell my car to but not my house.
But that is more to do with attempts at equal rights instead of religion.
Isn't it about time we start telling everyone that their religious beliefs should not be used to discriminate against others? No one stops parents from teaching their kids whatever they want to but when you bring that out into the public then you have stepped on the shoes of others. Isn't it a little silly to keep labeling gays and lesbians as 2nd class citizens because they choose to be who they are?

whatever.....there are so many terms that the Left uses....it runs the gamut.....but they all have one thing in common....FORCE is at the heart of their belief systems....socialism is just on the way to communism or a step away from fascism...or whatever form of dictatorship or totalitarian variation the Left may want to use....anything but our Constitution unless they are able to twist it to their advantage...

i suppose you are gay because you immediately bring up that stupid argument....can you tell me why being an active-in-public gay person is acceptable but being an active-in-public Christian person is not acceptable...?

seems to me the Left is doing the "picking and choosing"....don't you think...?

 

[Redfish]

And you can prove that the ten commandments came from God? As opposed to coming from Men who claimed to speak for God?

Its what I believe, as do billions of Christians world wide.

You are free to believe whatever you choose. I do not have to defend my beliefs to you or anyone else.

Some day we will know whose beliefs are correct

So your assertion that abortion is not a God given right is based not on any tangible evidence, but rather just on your personal opinion.

Thus, in the real world, the rules established for the governance of groups of humans are based only on those opinions that for one reason or another are able to be implemented.

No, you just don't get it.

Civilizations decide what laws and rules the members of the civilization will follow, what is considered right and wrong by a concensus of the members of the civilization. Each individual can decide whether he or she wants to live in that civilization under the rules set by a majority of that civilization.

Your right to live and do as you wish with your life was given to you by God, not other men.

"endowed by their creator" are the words of the founders. If you disagree, you are free to move to another country that lives by a different set of laws and beliefs.

 

[Yurt]

As usual, the conservatives here claim that we have God given rights,

as long as conservatives get to tell us what those rights are, or aren't.

Rights in the USA are determined by the constitution and the bill of rights.

They are very clearly spelled out for us.

Its you on the far left who are trying to ignore some of them and misinterpret others.

Correct, government determines what rights exist and thus will be protected by government.

God does not give us the rights; we the People do.

that is not true, the constitution was set up to protect rights, not grant them

 

[Redfish]

Anyone who talks so stupidly about a "Marxist dictatorship" is a far right reactionary throwing around terms he does not understand.

The govt that you, and others, seem to want is very close to a marxist collectivist dictatorship.

you want everyone to have equal income, equal stuff, and you want the govt to distribute money and material things as the govt sees fit.

you are very close to Marx "to each according to his needs, to each according to his abilities"

that sounds great, but it is in total contradiction to basic human nature that makes each of us desire to better ourselves and to provide food and safety for those that we care about.

you are happy with being a government slave, and are willing to do whatever the govt master elites tell you as long as everyone else also has to do what the govt elites dictate.

 

[Redfish]

It's a "commandment" that the far right deems has plenty of caveats.

Being they don't object to capital punishment, war, or stalking and shooting black kids.

Think of it as a 'suggestion'.

which people on the right think its OK to shoot black kids? give us some names. Are you still hung up on the Zimmerman case? He shot the thug in self defense, the jury acquitted him, its over.

capital punishment only occurs when the person has KILLED another person.

War is hell , no one wants war, whats wrong with you?

Seems you just pegged yourself with the "far right".

Case closed.

By believing in the validity of our jury system? That makes me far right? explain.

 

[JakeStarkey]

False "The govt that you, and others, seem to want is very close to a marxist collectivist dictatorship."

False "you want everyone to have equal income, equal stuff, and you want the govt to distribute money and material things as the govt sees fit" I am very happily enjoying the retirement I earned, and I have no trouble with the creation and maintenance of a safety net for those who need it

False "you are very close to Marx "to each according to his needs, to each according to his abilities" see above

False "that sounds great, but it is in total contradiction to basic human nature that makes each of us desire to better ourselves and to provide food and safety for those that we care about" see first para above

False "you are happy with being a government slave, and are willing to do whatever the govt master elites tell you as long as everyone else also has to do what the govt elites dictate" see first para above

You far right reactionaries want to change things: win elections.

 

[Redfish]

And you can prove that the ten commandments came from God? As opposed to coming from Men who claimed to speak for God?

Its what I believe, as do billions of Christians world wide.

You are free to believe whatever you choose. I do not have to defend my beliefs to you or anyone else.

Some day we will know whose beliefs are correct

So your assertion that abortion is not a God given right is based not on any tangible evidence, but rather just on your personal opinion.

Thus, in the real world, the rules established for the governance of groups of humans are based only on those opinions that for one reason or another are able to be implemented.

What are you talking about? what does this have to do with abortion? If you believe that an unborn human being is a human being then abortion is murder.

Unless you lived in the time of Jesus, there is no tangible evidence of the existence of God or in the validity of his commandments. Religion is based on beliefs, if you choose not to believe, I feel sorry for you, but thats your right.

 

[Redfish]

False "The govt that you, and others, seem to want is very close to a marxist collectivist dictatorship."

False "you want everyone to have equal income, equal stuff, and you want the govt to distribute money and material things as the govt sees fit" I am very happily enjoying the retirement I earned, and I have no trouble with the creation and maintenance of a safety net for those who need it

False "you are very close to Marx "to each according to his needs, to each according to his abilities" see above

False "that sounds great, but it is in total contradiction to basic human nature that makes each of us desire to better ourselves and to provide food and safety for those that we care about" see first para above

False "you are happy with being a government slave, and are willing to do whatever the govt master elites tell you as long as everyone else also has to do what the govt elites dictate" see first para above

You far right reactionaries want to change things: win elections.

So you worked and earned a retirement income, great, so did I.

But you would be OK if the govt decided your income was excessive and decided to take 50% of it to provide a "safety net" for someone who had never earned it, but felt entitled to some of your money.

 

[Redfish]

False "The govt that you, and others, seem to want is very close to a marxist collectivist dictatorship."

False "you want everyone to have equal income, equal stuff, and you want the govt to distribute money and material things as the govt sees fit" I am very happily enjoying the retirement I earned, and I have no trouble with the creation and maintenance of a safety net for those who need it

False "you are very close to Marx "to each according to his needs, to each according to his abilities" see above

False "that sounds great, but it is in total contradiction to basic human nature that makes each of us desire to better ourselves and to provide food and safety for those that we care about" see first para above

False "you are happy with being a government slave, and are willing to do whatever the govt master elites tell you as long as everyone else also has to do what the govt elites dictate" see first para above

You far right reactionaries want to change things: win elections.

You say FALSE, but these are the things you are begging for every day.

Individual freedom, smaller less intrusive federal govt, sane fiscal policy are not far right ideas.

sorry snake, its you who is on the fringe. I am solidly in the middle and in agreement with the vast majority of americans of both parties.