Marriage Question for Christians

[Cecilie1200]

While I understand your logic on the subject, you DO realize that in Western nations where the law doesn't allow for polygamy, most Christians believe rather strongly that the Bible and Christianity call for monogamous marriage, right?

I found interesting what CS Lewis said on this subject in regards to the idea that humanity shares a basic moral standard that is inborn. He said that people may differ on whether a man may have one wife, or two or three, but they all agree that a man shouldn't simply be with any woman he likes, that he should make a commitment and take responsibility for his family, whatever type of formulation the culture he lives in specifies.

'Inborn moral standard"

What a crock of shit!! Show me the DNA.

Why is this all about regulating the number of wives a man may have? Why no mention of the number of husbands a woman may take?

Because I'm not aware of any country in the world at this moment that legally allows polyandry, while quite a few allow polygyny.

 

[CMike]

I keep telling my wife that men need variety, but she doesn't seem to accept it. Go figure

 

[CMike]

I think it would depend on which wife has the bigger breasts.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

According to whom?

In the Christian perspective, marriage is the joining together of two people into one complete being. Marriage is before God. That's why gays can't 'be truly married: God does not recognize the union.

Interestingly, in heaven, all these marriages are torn asunder, as all become the body of Christ's Church, joined in union with God.

I'd be fascinated to know who gave you this particular take on Christianity, that only Christians can be married.

Only God's people can be truly wed and receive God's blessing

 

[Smartt33]

Just like in the case of a gay marriage, if the person becomes a Christian, they would have to do away with the unions already made because they are not recognized by God. Once a believer, you have to make some choices, and some of them are not easy. If you want to be within the will of God, you have to make some adjustments.

The Muslim can still chose one and marry her, but only one. However, unless that one is also a Christian, the union cannot be recognized as a marriage union according to His marriage design. "Not to be unequally yoked."

So you feel that it is the will of God that he abandon a woman he has made vows to and taken responsibility for and the children he had with her, despite knowing the consequences in a Middle Eastern country to a woman so disowned by her husband?

I am not sure I can respond properly here without offending someone. However, I do believe God has the final say, and He is serious about His design. For all people there are consequences under the law for their behaviors, and becoming a Christian does not wash those away. God forgives, but man does not. Why would God forgive something and then allow for it to continue?

And are you saying that you believe the Bible says that a person who is already married and then becomes a Christian is no longer married if his spouse is not also Christian? Because you're dead wrong on that one. 1 Corinthians 7:12-14 says, "If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy."

I would certainly agree that one of the wives might become the one wife of the man. This is not answered specifically, and seems not to be answered generally other than that one wife is significant in marriage as God designed it. The unsaved wife is "sanctified," or set aside for God's purposes, if she agrees to be so, but this does not mean that the marriage is as God designed, making them one. It also does not mean that the wife in this case is saved. Chances are she will be at some point though. Two wives is stretching it, and I just have to say that God has not made that 100% clear.

As to the childrenm, they too are set aside for the purposes of God, and they really dopn't have a choice in the matter, but they are not saved at this point. They do have a choice in that matter.

This is a very commplicated matter, and I have faith that God will work out the best in that situation. God looks on the hearts of all involved.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

And are you saying that you believe the Bible says that a person who is already married and then becomes a Christian is no longer married if his spouse is not also Christian? Because you're dead wrong on that one. 1 Corinthians 7:12-14 says, "If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy."

I they do not repent you to sin, you must cut them from your life

 

[AllieBaba]

You know, considering that many figures in the Bible had several wives, as well as the fact that there isn't a Commandment about having only 1 wife, rather it just says do not commit adultery.

Adultery by the way, is taking the love that someone gives you, and give that same love to another, without telling the first.

In the cases of multiple marriage or people who swing? It's not adultery, as all parties are notified and involved.

Should the Muslim keep the wife upon conversion to Christianity? Yes. And, should be rewarded with 1,000 dollars for making a smart choice and choosing a religion of life over one that chooses death.

Multiple wives was an old testament thing, that had its day and then was done away with.

 

[RodISHI]

I have a fun hypothetical for Christians, particularly those who feel strongly that their religion requires "one man-one woman" marriages.

Say a Muslim man in Saudi Arabia or some other Muslim country, who has two wives, converts to Christianity. Do you believe that God and Christianity would require him to put aside the second wife, or would they allow him to keep them both? Why or why not? Would the answer change if both wives had children with this man? Why or why not?

First you are saying "religion". Faith and religion are not exactly the same.

To question number 1, I would say no.

To question 2, IMO, even as a Believer I would say that the man took on the responsibility of a wife and then took on another responsibility when he took another wife before or without divorcing the first wife. In all it is a personal question between the man his wives and God not another that they personally will have to discern. It is not up to any Christian to make that choice for them.

That part you have "allow him to keep both of them" is as if the wives are property like livestock. Which in many cultures a man's wife is still considered property, even here in some places women are treated as property.

"Why?"
We have some friends that have a similar situation yet different. We love all three of them and all three have been good friends over the years. Their personal problems are just that, "personal" and their own business. When they were all younger the man left his wife and was in the process of a divorce. He hooked up with a very pretty young woman. She got pregnant during that brief affair. At the point young woman discovered she was pregnant the man and his wife had reconciled. The two women got together and made a decision at that point. They decided they would work it out and all three of them did over the years. They have been scorned, talked about and suffered themselves the consequences of their choices in their youth for years. Both women have had their own houses respectively and the man has supported both women and the children for all those years. I have more respect for these three people than I do many who act like they are and call themselves holy yet they are not. I would trust them farther than I would most in this world. They have good hearts, they treat others with kindness, they are not busy bodies, they take in strays, treat strangers kindly, go out of their way for people that others would just walk on by and all in all the heart is what God looks at in a man or woman.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

You know, considering that many figures in the Bible had several wives, as well as the fact that there isn't a Commandment about having only 1 wife, rather it just says do not commit adultery.

Adultery by the way, is taking the love that someone gives you, and give that same love to another, without telling the first.

In the cases of multiple marriage or people who swing? It's not adultery, as all parties are notified and involved.

Should the Muslim keep the wife upon conversion to Christianity? Yes. And, should be rewarded with 1,000 dollars for making a smart choice and choosing a religion of life over one that chooses death.

Multiple wives was an old testament thing, that had its day and then was done away with.

mormons...

 

[amrchaos]

Im not seeing how your scenario effects the belief that a marriage is between one man and one woman.

Marriage = one man + one woman

The problem you have that you are looking at this scenario as if one man + two women = marriage. But that isnt the correct way to look at it because the women arent married to each other. There just happen to be 2 marriages here between one man + one woman. The man just happens to be the same in both marriages.

A marriage is a union between a man and a woman. There is nothing that says because someone is married multiple times they are no longer married... In fact, the idea is rather contradictory if you say it outloud.

As for whether that will effect anyone converting to Christianity in general, Id say absolutely not. There is nothing inherently incompatible with being Christian and having more than one wife. The Bible forbids it directly in no place and many of the righteous men in the Bible lived this life style.

As for my particular sect, we dont rely on the Bible alone, but rely on on going revelation, one of which forbids this practice. In that case, my guess is the family would be permitted to attend church but would be unable to be baptized until a time where there would be only one living marriage relationship possible or until a time they can be baptized through proxy after they have died. I would presume that the children from such families, since they are not married would be allowed to be baptized and would be able to preform the proxy ordinance at some point.

But then since we generally arent in those countries at the moment, im not sure the situation has ever come up.

Then what about creating something called a pseudo-marriage. It is like a marriage except the restriction "one man+ one woman" is dropped.


I think I will pseudo-marrying myself!! Self, do you wish to get pseudo-married? Well sure self, let us psuedo-marry!!

Yipee!! I just pseudo-engaged myself!! Send congratulations to amrchaos!! I don't know when the pseudo-ceremnoy will take place--oh the joys of pseudo-matrimony!!

 

[ABikerSailor]

Im not seeing how your scenario effects the belief that a marriage is between one man and one woman.

Marriage = one man + one woman

The problem you have that you are looking at this scenario as if one man + two women = marriage. But that isnt the correct way to look at it because the women arent married to each other. There just happen to be 2 marriages here between one man + one woman. The man just happens to be the same in both marriages.

A marriage is a union between a man and a woman. There is nothing that says because someone is married multiple times they are no longer married... In fact, the idea is rather contradictory if you say it outloud.

As for whether that will effect anyone converting to Christianity in general, Id say absolutely not. There is nothing inherently incompatible with being Christian and having more than one wife. The Bible forbids it directly in no place and many of the righteous men in the Bible lived this life style.

As for my particular sect, we dont rely on the Bible alone, but rely on on going revelation, one of which forbids this practice. In that case, my guess is the family would be permitted to attend church but would be unable to be baptized until a time where there would be only one living marriage relationship possible or until a time they can be baptized through proxy after they have died. I would presume that the children from such families, since they are not married would be allowed to be baptized and would be able to preform the proxy ordinance at some point.

But then since we generally arent in those countries at the moment, im not sure the situation has ever come up.

Oh, I'm sure it has come up, if not for your particular church, since people from Middle Eastern countries do convert to Christianity quite a bit (and get persecuted and even killed for it, but I digress).

While I understand your logic on the subject, you DO realize that in Western nations where the law doesn't allow for polygamy, most Christians believe rather strongly that the Bible and Christianity call for monogamous marriage, right?

I found interesting what CS Lewis said on this subject in regards to the idea that humanity shares a basic moral standard that is inborn. He said that people may differ on whether a man may have one wife, or two or three, but they all agree that a man shouldn't simply be with any woman he likes, that he should make a commitment and take responsibility for his family, whatever type of formulation the culture he lives in specifies.

Yep. And, if you're looking for that inborn standard, it's the electricity in your body that runs your nervous system, or, if you're theologically bound, it's your soul.

His Holiness The Dali Lama said that all humans are born with an innate desire for sharing and receiving compassion. He said that is one of the ways that a newborn knows to suckle, because they're hungry, and they can sense that their mothers breast is full of milk and causes her pain.

Hate, on the other hand........is learned. And, it takes practice and repetition for it to survive. Think of the skinheads and the KKK for that one. Another group you can add to that are those that believe cutting off the happiness of others is what God says to do, they're called "Christians".

And yes, there have been many polygamous societies over the years. The Mormons are a prime example here in the USA. Same with Warren Jeff's cult YFZ. Why do they do it? They said that it's a really nice thing to not have to worry about pleasing your man all the time, as that is what the other wifes are for.........to share the load.

As far as marriage? God said "love one another as you love yourself". Gender was NOT specified.

And yes, for you women who are wondering if there was ever a society where the woman took multiple husbands? Yes, they were called the Thracian warriors, and they were called "in betweeners" as they existed in between the spirit realm and in the physical realm at the same time.

 

[AllieBaba]

Most women who are trapped in polygamous marriages despise it. There are exceptions to the rule, but if you want to see some really heinous behavior, look at the behavior of women who are one of multiple wives of men with power. Poisoning, infanticide, murder and suicide are common.

 

[Big Black Dog]

Marriage is between one man and one woman. Why would any man in his right mind want to carry out the trash for more than one woman at a time?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Marriage is between one man and one woman. Why would any man in his right mind want to carry out the trash for more than one woman at a time?

Unfortunately Chief, you DO have a point.

That's why I decided to remain single after my divorce in '93 from a red headed chick named Donna.

Came home from a 2 1/2 month cruise, and she was boning the AO chief.

 

[Cecilie1200]

In the Christian perspective, marriage is the joining together of two people into one complete being. Marriage is before God. That's why gays can't 'be truly married: God does not recognize the union.

Interestingly, in heaven, all these marriages are torn asunder, as all become the body of Christ's Church, joined in union with God.

I'd be fascinated to know who gave you this particular take on Christianity, that only Christians can be married.

Only God's people can be truly wed and receive God's blessing

I didn't ask you to reiterate your position. I asked you to cite your source.

 

[Cecilie1200]

And are you saying that you believe the Bible says that a person who is already married and then becomes a Christian is no longer married if his spouse is not also Christian? Because you're dead wrong on that one. 1 Corinthians 7:12-14 says, "If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy."

I they do not repent you to sin, you must cut them from your life

Still waiting on a source citation.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Most women who are trapped in polygamous marriages despise it. There are exceptions to the rule, but if you want to see some really heinous behavior, look at the behavior of women who are one of multiple wives of men with power. Poisoning, infanticide, murder and suicide are common.

This is because most women in polygamous marriages are also in backward, third-world hellhole countries, or lunatic sects that practice polygamy only for the sake of gratifying the ego of some dickhead man. There are, however, people who practice polygamy who do so in a loving and considerate way. They just also tend to keep a low profile.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

I'd be fascinated to know who gave you this particular take on Christianity, that only Christians can be married.

Only God's people can be truly wed and receive God's blessing

I didn't ask you to reiterate your position. I asked you to cite your source.

Do you even know what marriage is in the Christian tradition?

 

[Anguille]

There are, however, people who practice polygamy who do so in a loving and considerate way. They just also tend to keep a low profile.

Tell us more about your "arrangement", Cece.

 

[rdean]

Shouldn't ask Christians about marriage. Obviously, with a 50% divorce rate, they might as well be shooting craps. The odds are the same.