Zone1 Beauty Culture and Works-Based Religions: Mormons and Amish

[HikerGuy83]

Are you sure that we aren't nearly there already?

We are rather hypnotized by our phones and all the various types of entertainment.

Amen to that.

 

[braalian]

O.k.

I would agree for the most part. However, I think it will be more an economic collapse.

I’ll admit our over reliance on the internet could lead to a swift collapse if anything (solar flare, cyber warfare) ever took the web down for more than a week or so.

I’ve been a nurse for 16 years now. When I started most nursing homes, being less technologically advanced than big hospitals, still used paper charting.

No computers. We hand wrote notes in charts, we initialed little boxes on paper MARs for each pill we administered, and had to manually update them at the end of each and every month. Doctors wrote orders in the chart that we had to co-sign and implement.

Fast forward 16 years later, and it’s all on computer. If the internet went kaput today, we’d literally have no way of knowing what medications and treatments our patients are supposed to get (aside from memory, which is obviously dangerous)

The system would collapse completely and collapse immediately

 

[HikerGuy83]

I’ll admit our over reliance on the internet could lead to a swift collapse if anything (solar flare, cyber warfare) ever took the web down for more than a week or so.

I’ve been a nurse for 16 years now. When I started most nursing homes, being less technologically advanced than big hospitals, still used paper charting.

No computers. We hand wrote notes in charts, we initialed little boxes on paper MARs for each pill we administered, and had to manually update them at the end of each and every month. Doctors wrote orders in the chart that we had to co-sign and implement.

Fast forward 16 years later, and it’s all on computer. If the internet went kaput today, we’d literally have no way of knowing what medications and treatments our patients are supposed to get (aside from memory, which is obviously dangerous)

The system would collapse completely and collapse immediately

Thanks for sharing.

If I ever go into the hospital, I might consider keeping my own record for the very reasons you explained.

 

[braalian]

Thanks for sharing.

If I ever go into the hospital, I might consider keeping my own record for the very reasons you explained.

I remember when we first shifted from paper to electronic medical records, facilities would still print out monthly MARs for the event of “emergency down time” if the electronic MAR was unavailable for any length of time. Obviously not up to date by the day, but it was better than nothing

Nobody does that anymore because it’s deemed too time consuming and expensive and a waste of paper.

I honestly think the younger nurses would be in literal tears if they had to paper charting for even a day

 

[SweetSue92]

Works based faiths as opposed to what?

The Bible teaches works. Through and through.

But no works matter without Jesus Christ.

Wherefore, redemption cometh in and through the Holy Messiah; for he is full of grace and truth.

Christians believe Jesus can save to the "uttermost"...see the thief on the Cross.

Mormons believe He only saves "after all that you can do"

 

[HikerGuy83]

Christians believe Jesus can save to the "uttermost"...see the thief on the Cross.

So, why don't you unpack that one for me.

"Save" means what?

And how did he "save" the thief on the cross?

In this kind of a discussion, getting clear on these things is critical.

Mormons believe He only saves "after all that you can do"

Correct......

Moromons also believe:

14 And behold, this is the whole meaning of the law, every whit pointing to that great and last sacrifice; and that great and last sacrifice will be the Son of God, yea, infinite and eternal.

15 And thus he shall bring salvation to all those who shall believe on his name; this being the intent of this last sacrifice, to bring about the bowels of mercy, which overpowereth justice, and bringeth about means unto men that they may have faith unto repentance.

16 And thus mercy can satisfy the demands of justice, and encircles them in the arms of safety, while he that exercises no faith unto repentance is exposed to the whole law of the demands of justice; therefore only unto him that has faith unto repentance is brought about the great and eternal plan of redemption.

And so we see that man, who cannot save himself, is reedeemed through the Atonement of Jesus Christ on the conditions of repentance. But that repentance is necessary.

 

[SweetSue92]

So, why don't you unpack that one for me.

"Save" means what?

And how did he "save" the thief on the cross?

In this kind of a discussion, getting clear on these things is critical.

Correct......

Moromons also believe:

14 And behold, this is the whole meaning of the law, every whit pointing to that great and last sacrifice; and that great and last sacrifice will be the Son of God, yea, infinite and eternal.

15 And thus he shall bring salvation to all those who shall believe on his name; this being the intent of this last sacrifice, to bring about the bowels of mercy, which overpowereth justice, and bringeth about means unto men that they may have faith unto repentance.

16 And thus mercy can satisfy the demands of justice, and encircles them in the arms of safety, while he that exercises no faith unto repentance is exposed to the whole law of the demands of justice; therefore only unto him that has faith unto repentance is brought about the great and eternal plan of redemption.

And so we see that man, who cannot save himself, is reedeemed through the Atonement of Jesus Christ on the conditions of repentance. But that repentance is necessary.

"Save" means redeem your soul for Heaven.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Christians believe Jesus can save to the "uttermost"...see the thief on the Cross.

The thief on the cross went with Jesus who went to the spirits in prison.

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

 

[HikerGuy83]

"Save" means redeem your soul for Heaven.

I started a thread on Matthew 25.

I'd be interested in your thoughts on that one.

 

[SweetSue92]

The thief on the cross went with Jesus who went to the spirits in prison.

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Wow that's a tortured interpretation. Jesus said to him, "today you will be with me in paradise"--Luke 23:42-43

 

[HikerGuy83]

Wow that's a tortured interpretation. Jesus said to him, "today you will be with me in paradise"--Luke 23:42-43

What's tortured?

Yes, he said he'd be in paradise...today. And that day, Jesus was teaching in the spirit world.

Which isn't "heaven" in the traditional sense of the word.

 

[ding]

What's tortured?

I think she was saying that's a complicated path (i.e. tortuous path) but I could be wrong.

 

[HikerGuy83]

I think she was saying that's a complicated path (i.e. tortuous path) but I could be wrong.

I get the impression she's saying it's wrong.

 

[ding]

I get the impression she's saying it's wrong.

In the nicest way possible.

 

[ding]

I get the impression she's saying it's wrong.

This was my first post here and I have tried to stay true to it. I am sharing it with you now because it seems appropriate.

 

[HikerGuy83]

In the nicest way possible.

It would be great if she would just say it.

 

[ding]

It would be great if she would just say it.

In her own way she did.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Christians believe Jesus can save to the "uttermost"

Maybe you can explain to me what that means.

In most of my conversations with Christians, they accept that it is not consistent to claim salvation without some connection to "choosing the right".

Additionally, Jesus will save all he can. There is nothing arbitrary about it. But those who do not accept his gift....he cannot save. It would violate eternal principles.

 

[onefour1]

Upon the 3rd day when Jesus resurrected he told Mary the following:


John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

So during the time that Jesus body lay in the tomb before his resurrection, he had not yet ascended to his Father in Heaven. So when Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would be with him in paradise on that very day, Jesus did not mean heaven. Jesus, during the time his body lay in the tomb, went among the spirits of the dead and set up the preaching of his gospel among them

1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1 Peter 4:6
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

See also Doctrine and Covenant 138

So paradise was among the righteous dead who would be resurrect in the first resurrection.

 

[SweetSue92]

Maybe you can explain to me what that means.

In most of my conversations with Christians, they accept that it is not consistent to claim salvation without some connection to "choosing the right".

Additionally, Jesus will save all he can. There is nothing arbitrary about it. But those who do not accept his gift....he cannot save. It would violate eternal principles.

So you realize subjecting God to people's own will? That's not a sovereign God, nor one who is omnipotent. In the case you posit, God can only act if we will it.