Many paths...one God?

[SweetSue92]

I note the Corinthian verse, but we should also assess Jesus' own words: He said, "Follow me" thirteen times, which certainly implies the way. He also said, "I am the way..." Our faith in Jesus is very much a path. He also told us to follow the narrow way, for the broad way leads to destruction.

Living out our Christian life is a path, yes. But my distinction is: for other religions the path IS the faith. For, us, the faith is Jesus Christ.

 

[The Irish Ram]

What about the Great White Throne judgment? The Christian Bible says that non-Christians will be judged. It's my understanding that they can receive salvation at that point. Am I mistaken?

That is a really good question, that we weren't given the answer to. It doesn't say that anyone at the White Throne Judgment is found innocent at the trial, which leads some to the opinion that all judged on that day end up with Satan in the Lake of Fire. I don't know that that is the case.
1. They have the ability to be exonerated because their sins were paid in full on the cross, despite the fact that they never accepted that gift of propitiation.
2. They are being judged by the very person that paid the painful consequences for those sins, because He loved them, and who is the most gentle, loving, forgiving thing in all of God's creations.

My best friend died. All our lives I tried to get him to accept Christ. He was orphaned when we were in high school. He was definitely a self made man. Helped everybody, loved everybody. He felt that he was responsible for the good and the bad in his life. I was unsuccessful. He died on the operating table. I hope he made peace with God before his heart gave out. If not, he'll be on the docket. And I can't imagine my Lord condemning such a wonderful giving man.

When Christ was on the cross, He asked His Father to forgive them for they know not what they do. I hope that request extends to all humans who just don't get it.

So, I can't answer your question, but I pray your understanding is correct...

 

[K9Buck]

That is a really good question, that we weren't given the answer to. It doesn't say that anyone at the White Throne Judgment is found innocent at the trial, which leads some to the opinion that all judged on that day end up with Satan in the Lake of Fire. I don't know that that is the case.
1. They have the ability to be exonerated because their sins were paid in full on the cross, despite the fact that they never accepted that gift of propitiation.
2. They are being judged by the very person that paid the painful consequences for those sins, because He loved them, and who is the most gentle, loving, forgiving thing in all of God's creations.

My best friend died. All our lives I tried to get him to accept Christ. He was orphaned when we were in high school. He was definitely a self made man. Helped everybody, loved everybody. He felt that he was responsible for the good and the bad in his life. I was unsuccessful. He died on the operating table. I hope He made peace with God before his heart gave out. If not, he'll be on the docket. And I can't imagine my Lord condemning such a wonderful giving man.

When Christ was on the cross, He asked His Father to forgive them for they know not what they do. I hope that request extends to all humans who just don't get it.

So, I can't answer your question, but I pray your understanding is correct...

Great post!

 

[The Irish Ram]

Says everyone of every religion

Yep. But one proved it.
Matthew 27:63
Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.
Then, He did.
Mohammad said he's come back, and when he didn't, Muslims proclaimed he came back in spirit.

God proved who He was to the Jews through His prophets. They told the future. And did it with 100% accuracy. No man can do that. That is one of many ways we know that the Bible was authored by God, and penned by man. The many codes embedded in the Bible is another.
God verified His authority in the New Testament through Christ. Christ was the very first person on earth to break through the barrier of death.
And again, prophecy. Revelation is being fulfilled at break neck speed.

 

[SweetSue92]

That is a really good question, that we weren't given the answer to. It doesn't say that anyone at the White Throne Judgment is found innocent at the trial, which leads some to the opinion that all judged on that day end up with Satan in the Lake of Fire. I don't know that that is the case.
1. They have the ability to be exonerated because their sins were paid in full on the cross, despite the fact that they never accepted that gift of propitiation.
2. They are being judged by the very person that paid the painful consequences for those sins, because He loved them, and who is the most gentle, loving, forgiving thing in all of God's creations.

My best friend died. All our lives I tried to get him to accept Christ. He was orphaned when we were in high school. He was definitely a self made man. Helped everybody, loved everybody. He felt that he was responsible for the good and the bad in his life. I was unsuccessful. He died on the operating table. I hope he made peace with God before his heart gave out. If not, he'll be on the docket. And I can't imagine my Lord condemning such a wonderful giving man.

When Christ was on the cross, He asked His Father to forgive them for they know not what they do. I hope that request extends to all humans who just don't get it.

So, I can't answer your question, but I pray your understanding is correct..

I want to be careful to say that while there is a Throne Judgment, there is also a Book of Life. Christians escape the punishment due us ONLY because our names are written in the Book of Life.

With that said--

I absolutely believe that any creature under heaven and earth will be able to look at our punishments and rewards in the afterlife and say "absolutely perfect". Maybe, I dare to say, some may end up in a heaven that is just barely. And some in a hell that is just barely. If that makes sense.

 

[Coyote]

I don't either. I think it is clear that mankind has free will to choose his/her own destiny. We create our own hell on Earth when we make bad choices; God does not punish us, he merely allows us to fuck it up and requires us to suffer the consequences of our actions. BUT - unlike some religions, I think we get more chances at redemption, I.E., reincarnation.

The best description I heard regarding punishment (hell) or reward (heaven) was that hell was distancing yourself from God...we create our own hell by our choices. Ironically it was a popular movie that laid it out that way...but it fits.

 

[The Irish Ram]

While we do reap what we sow here on earth, Hell/Hades is not on earth, but in it:
Eph. 4:9-10 Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.
and:
Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.


Hell is:
Hot. On fire. Unquenchable thirst. Memory. Remorse. Separation from God, who is light, so total darkness. Those there will stay there until they are called up to the White Throne Judgment.

Here is a description from Luke 16:22-25
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus <( beggar, not the one Jesus raised from the dead) in his bosom.
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

Those that were dead and residing in Abraham's bosom were in Paradise. Across a deep chasm from Hell.
Those were people who favored God but whose sins had not been removed yet. It is where Christ was for 3 days. He proclaimed who He was to those in Hell, and gathered those in Abraham's Bosom, because they came back with Him. And they went with Him 40 days later when Jesus ascended into Heaven.

Matthew 27:52-54 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
^ That was documented by the Pharisees.

 

[Blues Man]

Who, other than Christ and his disciples, had the power to raise the dead? Mohammad had no power. Dead and gone. Buddha raised no one. Lots can talk the talk. One walked the walk...

Buddhism has no gods to worship.

It is a non-theistic philosophy not a religion. In fact in Pali and Sanskrit there is no word for religion. Labeling Buddhism a religion is a Western convention.

The OED defines religion as a particular system of faith and worship.

Buddhism requires neither worship nor faith.

 

[Blues Man]

I agree with SweetSue. You said "everyone" and clearly two people in this thread don't agree with the statement.

I believe in the strength and the power of the Holy Spirit. I believe he meets each person where they are and works from there. This includes people of all beliefs and people with no belief.

I doubt SweetSue and I are the only ones who disagree with your stereotype view of people of faith.

There are always exceptions to the rule.

If you didn't think your religion was the one your god wanted you to follow then you wouldn't be following it would you?

 

[Meriweather]

There are always exceptions to the rule.

If you didn't think your religion was the one your god wanted you to follow then you wouldn't be following it would you?

First, how did you come up with the "rule" in the first place? Second, how do you come up with what I think? Serious questions.

As I mentioned before, I have strong belief in the power and strength of the Holy Spirit who meets people where they are. We met up in the Catholic faith and the journey began there.

I did not jump to the conclusion that the Holy Spirit only worked through the Catholic Church/faith. My conclusion, based on family, friends, colleagues, is that the Holy Spirit meets everyone where they are, and with the willing, works from there. I don't believe I am that unique.

So, no, I don't believe Catholicism is the religion God wants me to follow. I have an entirely different take on that. I believe God points to the treasures in any faith and each person grows from there. I further believe that faith and religion are almost always about aiding our journey through this life, that the afterlife is more a byproduct of what we learn here.

I have neither the time nor the capacity for an in depth study on every faith, every sect. So I settled on Catholicism because (I feel) there is more depth in Catholicism than any other Christian sect I've given cursory study to. Catholicism has its roots in Judaism so that is my secondary in depth study--so much so if I were forced to choose another sect in would not be a Christian sect (outside of Orthodox), it would be Judaism. That is my selection for me, not direction/choice from God. I have all the faith there is that God can, when the choice is ours, work from there.

In my opinion, you want to limit God to one faith, one religion. You appear to have no belief He can work with all. You seem to limit God to one selection. The difference between us is that I place no limits on God and what He can accomplish no matter how diverse the circumstances or how many the selections.

 

[Blues Man]

First, how did you come up with the "rule" in the first place? Second, how do you come up with what I think? Serious questions.

As I mentioned before, I have strong belief in the power and strength of the Holy Spirit who meets people where they are. We met up in the Catholic faith and the journey began there.

I did not jump to the conclusion that the Holy Spirit only worked through the Catholic Church/faith. My conclusion, based on family, friends, colleagues, is that the Holy Spirit meets everyone where they are, and with the willing, works from there. I don't believe I am that unique.

So, no, I don't believe Catholicism is the religion God wants me to follow. I have an entirely different take on that. I believe God points to the treasures in any faith and each person grows from there. I further believe that faith and religion are almost always about aiding our journey through this life, that the afterlife is more a byproduct of what we learn here.

I have neither the time nor the capacity for an in depth study on every faith, every sect. So I settled on Catholicism because (I feel) there is more depth in Catholicism than any other Christian sect I've given cursory study to. Catholicism has its roots in Judaism so that is my secondary in depth study--so much so if I were forced to choose another sect in would not be a Christian sect (outside of Orthodox), it would be Judaism. That is my selection for me, not direction/choice from God. I have all the faith there is that God can, when the choice is ours, work from there.

In my opinion, you want to limit God to one faith, one religion. You appear to have no belief He can work with all. You seem to limit God to one selection. The difference between us is that I place no limits on God and what He can accomplish no matter how diverse the circumstances or how many the selections.

I asked you a question. I didn't tell you what you think.

The fact that there are so many religions and that often times there are quite significant differences in those religions is a contradiction.

If there is just one god and that one god told the humans it allegedly created how to worship him then there wouldn't be thousands of religions.

If there is just one god then only one religion is correct.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Buddhism has no gods to worship.

It is a non-theistic philosophy not a religion. In fact in Pali and Sanskrit there is no word for religion. Labeling Buddhism a religion is a Western convention.

The OED defines religion as a particular system of faith and worship.

Buddhism requires neither worship nor faith.

Nor proof.

 

[Blues Man]

Nor proof.

No religion requires proof which is why they concentrate on faith.

Buddhism isn't a religion it's a philosophy of living.

 

[Stann]

I asked you a question. I didn't tell you what you think.

The fact that there are so many religions and that often times there are quite significant differences in those religions is a contradiction.

If there is just one god and that one god told the humans it allegedly created how to worship him then there wouldn't be thousands of religions.

If there is just one god then only one religion is correct.

" All things are possible. "

 

[Meriweather]

I asked you a question. I didn't tell you what you think.

On the contrary...

If you didn't think your religion was the one your god wanted you to follow then you wouldn't be following it would you?

 

[Meriweather]

The fact that there are so many religions and that often times there are quite significant differences in those religions is a contradiction.

If there is just one god and that one god told the humans it allegedly created how to worship him then there wouldn't be thousands of religions.

Any middle school science student will tell you that it is nearly impossible to control all the variables even in simple lab experiments. Any teacher will tell you understanding comes in various ways at various times. Teachers will also advise you students often misunderstand the concept being presented.

Are you agnostic based on what someone told you? Or, did you come by agnosticism through a number of things?

If your answer is, "A number of things", then understand the same is true for most people of faith--any faith.

People most likely come by atheism, agnosticism, and faith based on the many different variables within themselves as a unique person with unique experiences--and desires. I think deep down people know what they want to be--atheist, agnostic, believer--and pick up data and experiences that support their own interest.

 

[task0778]

If you didn't think your religion was the one your god wanted you to follow then you wouldn't be following it would you?

I'm gonna take a whack at this one. Number one, I got no idea what God wants me to do, I'm kinda making it all up as I go, day by day. I believe we each have free will to believe what we want to or believe to be right and true, but that doesn't mean it is or isn't. My current belief system is my decision, as is the case with every other person on Earth. I can't see any sense in God wanting people to believe and follow different religions, where's the logic in that? IMHO, God has not been all that forthcoming about what religion to follow, so all I can see is that it's up to each of us to make that call ourselves. What I do not believe is that anyone who makes the wrong decision will be roasted in hell for an eternity.

 

[Meriweather]

If there is just one god and that one god told the humans it allegedly created how to worship him then there wouldn't be thousands of religions.

If there is just one god then only one religion is correct.

Are you absolutely certain of this, or is it your own conclusion? As I just laid out, there can be other conclusions--equally as valid.

 

[Meriweather]

I'm gonna take a whack at this one. Number one, I got no idea what God wants me to do, I'm kinda making it all up as I go, day by day. I believe we each have free will to believe what we want to or believe to be right and true, but that doesn't mean it is or isn't. My current belief system is my decision, as is the case with every other person on Earth. I can't see any sense in God wanting people to believe and follow different religions, where's the logic in that? IMHO, God has not been all that forthcoming about what religion to follow, so all I can see is that it's up to each of us to make that call ourselves. What I do not believe is that anyone who makes the wrong decision will be roasted in hell for an eternity.

I agree. I do think there is a separate afterlife for those who thrive on evil or want nothing to do with God. I have made life decisions based on prayer. I remember one particular time prayer brought me no direction at all, so I prayed about that, to help me understand. Enlightenment: "I can work with either. You choose." To some extent, God's will is flexible--and I see that as strength, not weakness nor ineptness.

 

[Stann]

On the contrary...

" Not all who wander are lost. " Just wanted to tell you, what a beautiful thought that is and how true it is. Have a great day and a great life. I plan on it, hope you do too.