Zone1 "The more I look at the Universe, the less convinced I am that there is something benevolent going on."

[Dante]

How long do we got before we're toast?

I don't know and in reality I don't much care. I will not be around. Contemplating the end of the world or humanity has never been my bag.

 

[MarcATL]

I don't know and in reality I don't much care. I will not be around. Contemplating the end of the world or humanity has never been my bag.

Well, according to DeGrasse's logic, we ought to be somewhere in the spectrum.

I'm just curious to know where are we in the grand scheme of things, near the beginning, somewhere in the middle, or near the end?

 

[Dante]

Well, according to DeGrasse's logic, we ought to be somewhere in the spectrum.

I'm just curious to know where are we in the grand scheme of things, near the beginning, somewhere in the middle, or near the end?

I'm sure he's discussed that before. I remember really liking (and agreeing) with some ideas he's had. Like the idea that we ought to be preparing how to save the Earth rather than preparing to leave the planet and go start over.

and in conversation Neil addressed what you ponder:



in conversation 1:15

 

[Mashmont]

"There was a philosopher commenting on Miracles (and I'm going to mangle the quote) but he said something like - Miracles are so unlikely, bordering on Impossible, that if you do encounter something that you cannot explain, not only from your own base of knowledge, but is unexplainable given any base of knowledge yet acquired on Earth, it's more likely that you simply discovered a new law of physics, than that there is a Divine miracle that was performed in front of you."

asked: Do you believe in God, Creator?

"The more I look at the Universe, the less convinced I am that there is something benevolent going on."

"If your concept of a Creator is someone who's all powerful and all good, that's not an uncommon pairing of powers that you might describe to a Creator, all powerful and all good and I look at disasters that afflict Earth and life on Earth; volcanoes, hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, disease, pestilence, congenital birth defects -- you look at this list of ways that life is made miserable on Earth by natural causes, and I just ask - how do you deal with that."

"So philosophers rose up and said, if there is a God God is either not all powerful or not all good."

"I have no problems if as we probe the origins of things we bump up into the bearded man, if that shows up we're good to go okay not a problem there's just no evidence of it, and this is why religions are called faiths collectively, because you believe something in the absence of evidence. That's what it is that's why it's called Faith otherwise we would call all religions evidence, but we don't for exactly that reason, so I I'm I'm given what everyone describes to be the properties that would be expressed by an all powerful being in the gods that they worship I look for that in the universe and I don't find it."




I'm not sure how somebody could attack what Neil is saying here. I can see people of faith disagreeing, using arguments based on beliefs, on individual faith vs science. But I can't see them arguing against what he is saying.

People like are not a threat to people who desire faith over science. I know, because he or people like him have never changed my mind or convinced me that I am in error. They just serve up an informed and coherent set of arguments that speak to what I've come to know.

Christianity is 100% compatible with science. It has never been shown otherwise. It's just that we don't have to brainpower to comprehend all of science or all of Christianity.

 

[Mashmont]

"There was a philosopher commenting on Miracles (and I'm going to mangle the quote) but he said something like - Miracles are so unlikely, bordering on Impossible, that if you do encounter something that you cannot explain, not only from your own base of knowledge, but is unexplainable given any base of knowledge yet acquired on Earth, it's more likely that you simply discovered a new law of physics, than that there is a Divine miracle that was performed in front of you."

asked: Do you believe in God, Creator?

"The more I look at the Universe, the less convinced I am that there is something benevolent going on."

"If your concept of a Creator is someone who's all powerful and all good, that's not an uncommon pairing of powers that you might describe to a Creator, all powerful and all good and I look at disasters that afflict Earth and life on Earth; volcanoes, hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, disease, pestilence, congenital birth defects -- you look at this list of ways that life is made miserable on Earth by natural causes, and I just ask - how do you deal with that."

"So philosophers rose up and said, if there is a God God is either not all powerful or not all good."

"I have no problems if as we probe the origins of things we bump up into the bearded man, if that shows up we're good to go okay not a problem there's just no evidence of it, and this is why religions are called faiths collectively, because you believe something in the absence of evidence. That's what it is that's why it's called Faith otherwise we would call all religions evidence, but we don't for exactly that reason, so I I'm I'm given what everyone describes to be the properties that would be expressed by an all powerful being in the gods that they worship I look for that in the universe and I don't find it."




I'm not sure how somebody could attack what Neil is saying here. I can see people of faith disagreeing, using arguments based on beliefs, on individual faith vs science. But I can't see them arguing against what he is saying.

People like are not a threat to people who desire faith over science. I know, because he or people like him have never changed my mind or convinced me that I am in error. They just serve up an informed and coherent set of arguments that speak to what I've come to know.

There is one thing I can tell you for certain is the right way to conduct oneself: Treating people as well as possible.

Christian promotes that. Atheism doesn't. That's the best indicator there is.

 

[Dante]

Christianity is 100% compatible with science. It has never been shown otherwise. It's just that we don't have to brainpower to comprehend all of science or all of Christianity.

There is one thing I can tell you for certain is the right way to conduct oneself: Treating people as well as possible.

Christian promotes that. Atheism doesn't. That's the best indicator there is.

next

I say "next" because you want a debate or something on Christianity. Not interested.

 

[Meriweather]

What is the purpose of a rock, of disease?

Perhaps a better question is to ask, "What is my purpose?" Instead of looking at the universe, look first at one's own life. Is something benevolent happening there?

 

[Dante]

Perhaps a better question is to ask, "What is my purpose?" Instead of looking at the universe, look first at one's own life. Is something benevolent happening there?

Purpose? What is the purpose of a rock? What is it's meaning?


Long ago (when facing death) I came to a conclusion that absolutely freed my mind -- Life has no real purpose, no meaning. I learned that experiences in life can give meaning to one's own life. I've long known I could always choose a purpose.

If we as a species; are made up of the same stuff as starts are -- are meant to replicate -- are more similar to other animals than not?

Interesting intellectual crap to help the brain.

 

[Meriweather]

Long ago (when facing death) I came to a conclusion that absolutely freed my mind -- Life has no real purpose, no meaning. I learned that experiences in life can give meaning to one's own life. I've long known I could always choose a purpose.

I, too, had an event where I faced death. It was astonishing, and I wanted to go forward, not back....

Seriously, I was mystified as to why it was not to be. I was of no real importance, my life was average, of no real importance, so of all the deaths that were to occur that day, why not me? I guessed I was meant to be the ancestor of someone important. I was told that wasn't it, it wasn't about someone else, it was about me. I am still mystified.

Life has no real purpose? Each individual is life's purpose. You, not life, are the purpose--and the meaning. Does a purpose go around seeking other purposes? (Maybe, I've never thought of that until now.) Life presents us with tasks. Select one that needs to be done and do it. I laugh at myself at this one, because if I see a struggling worm on a hot sidewalk, I rescue it. I'm guessing life's purpose for me is in the minutia. I'm okay with that.

 

[Dante]

I, too, had an event where I faced death. It was astonishing, and I wanted to go forward, not back....

Seriously, I was mystified as to why it was not to be. I was of no real importance, my life was average, of no real importance, so of all the deaths that were to occur that day, why not me? I guessed I was meant to be the ancestor of someone important. I was told that wasn't it, it wasn't about someone else, it was about me. I am still mystified.

Life has no real purpose? Each individual is life's purpose. You, not life, are the purpose--and the meaning. Does a purpose go around seeking other purposes? (Maybe, I've never thought of that until now.) Life presents us with tasks. Select one that needs to be done and do it. I laugh at myself at this one, because if I see a struggling worm on a hot sidewalk, I rescue it. I'm guessing life's purpose for me is in the minutia. I'm okay with that.

Who are you again? Well thought out.

Life having a purpose? I said it in other words -- to replicate.

"Does a purpose go around seeking other purposes?" It would seem so if we only look at what we know -- the human species having developed a brain that seeks to understand -- life.

The munitia? "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" I believe most people misunderstand that quote. Either that or I add to it with caveats. Without the parts, the whole does not get to exist.

 

[Dante]

​

“What is the most astounding fact you can share with us about the Universe?​

"The most astounding fact is the knowledge that the atoms that comprise life on Earth. The atoms that make up the human body are traceable to the crucibles that cooked light elements into heavy elements in their core under extreme temperatures and pressures. These stars, the high mass ones among them went unstable in their later years. They collapsed and then exploded, scattering their enriched guts across the galaxy. Guts made of carbon, nitrogen, oxygen and all the fundamental ingredients of life itself. These ingredients become part of gas clouds that condense, collapse, form the next generation of solar systems. Stars with orbiting planets, and those planets now have the ingredients for life itself. So that when I look up at the night sky and I know that yes, we are part of this universe, we are in this universe, but perhaps more important than both of those facts is that the Universe is in us. When I reflect on that fact, I look up – many people feel small because they’re small and the Universe is big – but I feel big, because my atoms came from those stars. There’s a level of connectivity. That’s really what you want in life, you want to feel connected, you want to feel relevant you want to feel like you’re a participant in the goings on of activities and events around you. That’s precisely what we are, just by being alive…”

― Neil deGrasse Tyson

 

[Cougarbear]

What is the purpose of a rock, of disease?

Glad you asked. With God, he has a purpose. To bring to past the immortality and eternal life of mankind. Now, this is knowledge I have as well as millions of LDS who have received this information from God through prophets. Here's the thing, unless you have a purpose for the universe, there is no reason to vilify mine. I've asked, what is your purpose for the universe to exist. Without a purpose, it would not exist. Also, there's a saying that you might want to consider studying before responding. "You can't see the forest for the trees." So, here is why God has a purpose:
1. We have evolved through time and space in which God existed.
2. We started out as intelligences or pure energy.
3. Through past existence of our Father and Mother in heaven, they have eternal increase in joy with more children. However, resurrected beings don't have earthly like children. They have "spirit children." The intelligences are put into these spirit children of our heavenly parents. That was the start of our evolution.
4. Father in Heaven's purpose is again to bring to past the immortality and eternal life of mankind so that his children could progress and receive all that he and mother in heaven have. Joy in their posterity.
5. As spirit children (you and me) we could not progress to this "immortality." So, the universe and earth were prepared to have mortal children placed on earths around the universe for the purpose of bringing to past the immortality and eternal life of mankind.
6. We are then placed in our physical bodies at some point during gestation.
7. This earth was chosen for the spirits in heaven that would play out the necessary events for his children around the universe to have this potential of eternal life exalted to where we can inherit the same opportunities that our Heavenly parents have. Simply put, this earth is full of spirits easily swayed to actually kill their Lord and Savior for the fulfillment of the Atonement and Resurrection. And, begin to continue the evolution of man. The forest instead of little trees of small importance.

Therefore, the earth full of rocks and disease is necessary for us to make choices based on faith in the God who organized all this for us. The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.

 

[Dante]

"What is the purpose of a rock, of disease? "​

Glad you asked. With God, he has a purpose. To bring to past the immortality and eternal life of mankind. Now, this is knowledge I have as well as millions of LDS who have received this information from God through prophets. Here's the thing, unless you have a purpose for the universe, there is no reason to vilify mine. I've asked, what is your purpose for the universe to exist. Without a purpose, it would not exist. Also, there's a saying that you might want to consider studying before responding. "You can't see the forest for the trees." So, here is why God has a purpose:

You must be responding to something in your own head -- but okay:

1. We have evolved through time and space in which God existed.

So, now time and space step in for Heaven?

2. We started out as intelligences or pure energy.
3. Through past existence of our Father and Mother in heaven, they have eternal increase in joy with more children. However, resurrected beings don't have earthly like children. They have "spirit children." The intelligences are put into these spirit children of our heavenly parents. That was the start of our evolution.
4. Father in Heaven's purpose is again to bring to past the immortality and eternal life of mankind so that his children could progress and receive all that he and mother in heaven have. Joy in their posterity.
5. As spirit children (you and me) we could not progress to this "immortality." So, the universe and earth were prepared to have mortal children placed on earths around the universe for the purpose of bringing to past the immortality and eternal life of mankind.
6. We are then placed in our physical bodies at some point during gestation.
7. This earth was chosen for the spirits in heaven that would play out the necessary events for his children around the universe to have this potential of eternal life exalted to where we can inherit the same opportunities that our Heavenly parents have. Simply put, this earth is full of spirits easily swayed to actually kill their Lord and Savior for the fulfillment of the Atonement and Resurrection. And, begin to continue the evolution of man. The forest instead of little trees of small importance.

the next is to me, a pathetic way to look at life

Therefore, the earth full of rocks and disease is necessary for us to make choices based on faith in the God who organized all this for us. The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.

I feel really bad for you if this is how you'll live out the rest of your existence here on Earth.

 

[ding]

If that's all you got out of it then yeah. But reading with blinders on can warp reality.

Being a trojan horse stands on its own. It's not dependent on what other arguments I may or may not have. It’s only based upon a deception. Pretending to be one thing while in reality being another.

Reading with blinders on is one way of warping reality but it's not the root cause. The root cause is seeing what you want to see; having a preference for an outcome. Feel free to disagree.

 

[Dante]

The root cause is seeing what you want to see; having a preference for an outcome.

Behavior I've observed you engaging in.

"Seems like a trojan horse argument to me. God can't exist because God is a meanie."

Straw man rides a Trojan Horse

 

[ding]

Hmm...

Depending what the faith dictates, doesn't it? Human sacrifice?

No. It only depends on existing perfectly. Which doesn’t mean doing perfect things.

It’s always the same with your type. You accuse others of wearing blinders as you blindly follow your belief that you can’t be wrong.

What I was discussing was the reality that when people exist perfectly, outside influences affect them less negatively than it would affect them otherwise. How is that not a functional advantage? How is that not a benefit of faith that exists in reality outside of any external influences.

But please do carry on with your human sacrifices fringe argument and ignore the central point of a natural functional advantage that exists in reality.

 

[Dante]

No. It only depends on existing perfectly. Which doesn’t mean doing perfect things.

It’s always the same with your type. You accuse others of wearing blinders as you blindly follow your belief that you can’t be wrong.

What I was discussing was the reality that when people exist perfectly, outside influences affect them less negatively than it would affect them otherwise. How is that not a functional advantage? How is that not a benefit of faith that exists n reality outside of any external influences.

But please do carry on with your human sacrifices fringe argument and ignore the central point of a natural functional advantage that exists in reality.

Stop projecting.

"When people exist perfectly?" wtf is that all about? that goes far beyond weird.

 

[ding]

Behavior I've observed you engaging in.

"Seems like a trojan horse argument to me. God can't exist because God is a meanie."

Straw man rides a Trojan Horse

It’s one thing to say that I am subjective. It’s another thing to prove it. My saying that your type argues God can’t exist because God is a meanie isn’t a Trojan horse. It’s a common argument your type habitually make. It’s an idiotic argument. Do you not exist because you aren’t perfect? Isn’t your existence based upon your existence and only your existence?

 

[Dante]

It’s one thing to say that I am subjective. It’s another thing to prove it. My saying that your type argues God can’t exist because God is a meanie isn’t a Trojan horse. It’s a common argument your type makes habitually.

Nope.

and now you've lost me.

too bad. could've been interesting

 

[ding]

Stop projecting.

"When people exist perfectly?" wtf is that all about? that goes far beyond weird.

That you don’t know what this means, means you don’t have a clue what I am talking about. What’s worse is that your mind is already closed to it. So no transformation for you until you are ready for it. If then.