Should the U.S. Declare War on Russia?

[AntonToo]

I know the reality you idiot, my wife is Russian American (Like you, with much better politics) and more than half of her family is Russo-Ukrainian. Try your bullshit on someone else punk.

You mean your Putin Vison watching wife? She wouldn't know up from down, let alone have any first hand insight into events in Ukraine.

Maybe you can go ahead and ask your wife what specifically Americans did during Maidan.

To listen to you these are Americans here:

 

[TruthNotBS]

You mean your Putin Vison watching wife? She wouldn't know up from down, let alone have any first hand insight into events in Ukraine.

You're a clown. What an idiot.

 

[AntonToo]

You're a clown. What an idiot.

^ Sure sure, but in the images above, these are Americans at Maidan, not Ukranians, right?

 

[TruthNotBS]

You mean your Putin Vison watching wife? She wouldn't know up from down, let alone have any first hand insight into events in Ukraine.

Maybe you can go ahead and ask your wife what specifically Americans did during Maidan.

To listen to you these are Americans here:

As if there aren't enough Ukrainians in Ukraine to fill that square with a bunch of pro-Western, anti-Russian protestors. Ukraine is a country with tens of millions of people. Many people are pro-EU - NATO and many aren't. Duh. You're so dumb.

 

[AntonToo]

As if there aren't enough Ukrainians in Ukraine to fill that square

Ignoramus hundreds of thousands walked out all around Ukrane, this was not just an event in Kiev, even though thats where central events took place.

Euromaidan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

According to you this was just something America arranged.

 

[Foxfyre]

C'mon, all you NeoCons/Progressives/Chicken Hawks: Why shouldn't the U.S. declare war on Russia? Isn't it the 21st Century equivalent of Nazi Germany beating up on neighboring states? Britain started two world wars on the basis that Germany invaded Belgium and Poland, so why shouldn't do the same for Ukraine?

Are we really in it to win it at all costs, or are we playing dangerous games for domestic political consumption? Let's hear it from all you war mongers as to why we must defeat Russia! Or are you planning to bail out before things become radioactive? Rah, rah, rah!

In a word. Hell no. Okay that's two words. But I stand with President Trump who wants to end these senseless wars.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Ignoramus MILLIONS walked out all around Ukrane, this was not just an event in Kiev, even though thats where central events took place.

Again, more stupid comments. Ukraine has its pro-Western supporters who would love to make all of Ukraine a Western bastian, a bulwark vs Russia, full of NATO troops. When did I ever deny that? You're shadowboxing. You're an idiot. There are also millions of Ukrainians who lean towards Russia, politically, economically, culturally, linguistically, historically..etc. My wife's family is comprised mostly of Russo-Ukrainians who love Putin and dislike Western meddling in Ukraine and Eastern Europe, including its underhanded NGO activism in Russia. Not all Russians or Ukrainians think like you. Duh, many don't. If you want to delude yourself thinking otherwise, go right ahead. You're a clown.

 

[AntonToo]

anti-Russian protestors

Moron protests had nothing to do with ethnic Russians and in fact there ware Russian flags, tents and unity posters at Maidan.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Moron protests had nothing to do with Russians and in fact there ware Russian tents at Maidan and unity posters.

More stupid comments.

 

[AntonToo]

More stupid comments.

Comments you can't refute.

Maidan revolution had nothing to do with ethnic Russians.

Putin's invasion and annexation of Crimea in Feb 2014 is what spread the hate of Russia.

 

[ESay]

ESay, as a Ukranian who presumably was in Ukrane at the time and familiar with the event, can you explain some reality to this useful idiot?

Coup was for and by Ukranians. Yes US supports pro-democratic movements, but the support here was mostly symbolic.

Well, the reality is that every side tells only half-truth that suits them. The Maidan was very popular among the Western-oriented Ukrainians, and many people in Kiev took part in these protests, gave them food, winter clothes etc etc.

What was the role of the Western governments? I think its was more than symbolic. They supported so called Western-oriented politicians and organizations (including far-right movements) for years. Also I have no doubt that Yatseniuk and company followed their guidelines throughout the Maidan protests.

Buy the reality also says that half of Ukraine didn't accept this revolution. They wanted union with Russia. And of course the Russian government supported Russian-leaning politicians, organizations etc.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Comments you can't refute.

Maidan revolution had nothing to do with ethnic Russians.

Putin's invasion and annexation of Crimea in Feb 2014 is what spread the hate of Russia.

How does your incoherent stupid comment, relate to what I said? Your dumb comments offer nothing to refute. You're an idiot, creating irrelevant, strawman arguments.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Well, the reality is that every side tells only half-truth that suits them. The Maidan was very popular among the Western-oriented Ukrainians, and many people in Kiev took part in these protests, gave them food, winter clothes etc etc.

What was the role of the Western governments? I think its was more than symbolic. They supported so called Western-oriented politicians and organizations (including far-right movements) for years. Also I have no doubt that Yatseniuk and company followed their guidelines throughout the Maidan protests.

Buy the reality also says that half of Ukraine didn't accept this revolution. They wanted union with Russia. And of course the Russian government supported Russian-leaning politicians, organizations etc.

This is what I've been saying, but Anton doesn't listen.

 

[AntonToo]

Well, the reality is that every side tells only half-truth that suits them. The Maidan was very popular among the Western-oriented Ukrainians, and many people in Kiev took part in these protests, gave them food, winter clothes etc etc.

What was the role of the Western governments? I think its was more than symbolic. They supported so called Western-oriented politicians and organizations (including far-right movements) for years. Also I have no doubt that Yatseniuk and company followed their guidelines throughout the Maidan protests.

Buy the reality also says that half of Ukraine didn't accept this revolution. They wanted union with Russia. And of course the Russian government supported Russian-leaning politicians, organizations etc.

The truth was that EU integration was a popular cause in Ukraine.

Yanukovich ran for office promissing to deliver on EU integration, much work went into the process over the years and then he went over and unilaterally DECLINED to sign the agreements and instead moved to get Ukraine stuck with Russian trade agreements.

When protests began Yanukovich had Berkut beat up peaceful, lawful protestors Russian-style, which upset a lot of Ukranians and sparked Maidan - a Revolution of Dignity.

Thats not Americans doing something, this is fundamentally a Ukranian event.

 

[AntonToo]

This is what I've been saying, but Anton doesn't listen.

Bullshit. This is what you've been saying

The 2014 coup, wasn’t a revolution by the people of Ukraine,

Yes it was and thats exactly what ESay told you.

 

[ESay]

The truth was that EU integration was a popular cause in Ukraine.

Yanukovich ran for office promissing to deliver on EU integration, much work went into the process over the years and then he went over and unilaterally DECLINED to sign the agreements and instead moved to get Ukraine stuck with Russian trade agreements.

When protests began Yanukovich had Berkut beat up peaceful, lawful protestors Russian-style, which upset a lot of Ukranians and sparked Maidan - a Revolution of Dignity.

Thats not Americans doing something, this is fundamentally a Ukranian event.

Yanukovych was considered a pro-Russian politician. In Eastern and Southern Ukraine (the places of your electoral base) he promised closer cooperation with Russia and granting the Russian language an official status.

The EU integration was popular among half of Ukraine. The other half was against or indifferent to it. And no protesters being beaten up could change that.

Ukraine was deeply divided politically and culturally.

 

[AntonToo]

Yanukovych was considered a pro-Russian politician. In Eastern and Southern Ukraine (the places of your electoral base) he promised closer cooperation with Russia and granting the Russian language an official status.

The EU integration was popular among half of Ukraine. The other half was against or indifferent to it. And no protesters being beaten up could change that.

Ukraine was deeply divided politically and culturally.

Yanukovych ran on EU integration which had a huge support in Ukraine.

Do you deny even a word of that?

 

[TruthNotBS]

Bullshit - your posting suggests that Americans somehow artifically arranged Maidan.

No we didn't. It was by and for Ukranians.

You make your shit up, then you refute that. You're a disingenuous shithead. I've already mentioned exactly why the Maidan protests occurred, and they're legitimate. What part of co-opted don't you understand Anton? Get an English dictionary. How long have you been here in the US? Learn English. The US co-opted a legitimate protest against the Ukrainian government. I never denied that, you idiot.

The Maidan protests in Ukraine began in late 2013 because then-President Viktor Yanukovych refused to sign an Association Agreement with the European Union. This agreement was intended to bring Ukraine closer to the EU economically and politically. Many Ukrainians, particularly in the western part of the country, supported the deal as a step toward greater European integration and economic opportunities.

However, Yanukovych chose instead to pursue closer ties with Russia, accepting a significant financial aid package from Moscow. His decision to back away from the EU deal in favor of Russian support triggered the mass protests in Kyiv's Maidan Square, which eventually escalated into widespread unrest and led to Yanukovych being ousted from power in February 2014.

The EU Association Agreement, which Yanukovych refused to sign, included economic reforms that would have imposed austerity measures on Ukraine. These austerities were part of the broader package required for Ukraine to align with EU standards and receive financial aid from the International Monetary Fund (IMF).

The agreement would have required Ukraine to implement structural reforms, including cuts to government spending, reductions in subsidies (especially for energy), pension reforms, and other neoliberal economic policies that would have placed a significant burden on the working class and poor. It was also going to make Ukraine more vulnerable to being taken over by Western capitalist vested interests, that don't care about the Ukrainian people, at all. All they see are dollar signs, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Look at how the Western powers are willing to sacrifice millions of Ukrainian men and women, to undermine Russia's influence in the region and hurt Russia. They will sacrifice all of Ukraine for their geopolitical interests.

Yanukovych's decision to reject the EU deal and instead accept a $15 billion aid package from Russia was partly motivated by the desire to avoid these austerity measures, which were likely to be deeply unpopular among Ukrainian workers. This rejection, however, ignited the Maidan protests, as a significant portion of the population favored closer ties with the EU, despite the potential economic sacrifices. To pretend that the situation in Ukraine is simple is absurd. My father-in-law is a professor of Russian and Ukrainian history. He has a PhD in Russian history and is an expert on Ukraine. Half of his family is Ukrainian.

Do you think it's easy for Putin to declare war on Ukraine? To deploy the Russian military to fight Ukrainians? He loves and respects the Ukrainian people. Russians and Ukrainians are brothers and sisters.

 

[ESay]

Yanukovych ran on EU integration which had a huge support in Ukraine.

Do you deny even a word of that?

Yanukovych promised EU integration where that suited him, and close cooperation with Russia where that suited him too.

EU integration had significant support in Western and Central Ukraine. In Eastern and Southern parts not so much.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

C'mon, all you NeoCons/Progressives/Chicken Hawks: Why shouldn't the U.S. declare war on Russia? Isn't it the 21st Century equivalent of Nazi Germany beating up on neighboring states? Britain started two world wars on the basis that Germany invaded Belgium and Poland, so why shouldn't do the same for Ukraine?

Are we really in it to win it at all costs, or are we playing dangerous games for domestic political consumption? Let's hear it from all you war mongers as to why we must defeat Russia! Or are you planning to bail out before things become radioactive? Rah, rah, rah!

That's not how wars work anymore. No longer would we announce to the world we are going to war.

If we went to war with Russia, the first clue would be Putin's brains filling the sky over the Kremlin. The second clue would be seemingly randomly placed explosions all over Russia, as we disable missile sites.

Then, reports of underwater explosions, as we disable the Russian submarines our military publicly pretends are hard to detect.