Man Shoots At Intruders, Turns Out It Was A No-knock Raid. Now He Faces The Death Penalty

[Iceweasel]

Do you make anything but idiotic drive by comments? Address the point instead of flopping around. Why was he drug back?

You asked me to explain why I thought it was legal to drag him back in front of his house, I explained why I thought it was. How deos that not address your pathetic post?

I missed your explanation, maybe you could tone down the flatulence level a bit there quantum gasbag. Obviously he drug him back because he knew he would be in deep shit so you're wrong. You can't just shoot anyone for stealing anywhere, read the law and quit posting what you think the law should be.

Explain THIS THEN: this man killed 2 people that robbed his neighbor's house, used the Castle Doctrine as his defense and he was CLEARED....

Home> Cuomo on the Case
Man Cleared for Killing Neighbor's Burglars
June 30, 2008
By CHRIS BURY and HOWARD L. ROSENBERG via Nightline


A Texas man who shot and killed two men he believed to be burglarizing his neighbor's home won't be going to trial. A grand jury today failed to indict Joe Horn, a 61-year-old computer technician who lives in an affluent subdivision in Pasadena, Texas.

In the Lone Star state, where the six-gun tamed the frontier, shooting bad guys is a time-honored tradition, and Horn's case centered on a Texas state law based on the old idea that "a man's home is his castle." The "castle law" gives Texans unprecedented legal authority to use deadly force in their homes, vehicles and workplaces. And no longer do they have an obligation to retreat, if possible, before they shoot.

"I understand the concerns of some in the community regarding Mr. Horn's conduct," Harris County District Attorney Kenneth Magidson told reporters at the courthouse. "The use of deadly force is carefully limited in Texas law to certain circumstances. ... In this case, however, the grand jury concluded that Mr. Horn use of deadly force did not rise to a criminal offense."



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null


'I'm Gonna Shoot!' Horn called 911 in November to report a burglary in broad daylight at the house next door.

"I've got a shotgun; you want me to stop him?" Horn asked the dispatcher.

"Nope. Don't do that," the dispatcher replied. "Ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?"

Horn was clearly upset by the dispatcher's response.

"I'm not gonna let them get away with it," he said. "I can't take a chance getting killed over this, OK."

Despite the dispatcher's protects, Horn said, "I'm gonna shoot! I'm gonna shoot!"

The 911 dispatcher warned Horn to stay inside at least a dozen separate times, telling him, "An officer is coming out there. I don't want you to go outside that house."

Then Horn sounding angrier by the moment cited the new Texas law.

"OK, but I have a right to protect myself too, sir," he said. "And you understand that. And the laws have been changed in this country since September the first, and you know it and I know it."

Moments later, Horn saw two burglars leave his neighbor's house, one of them carrying a bag filled with cash and jewelry.

"I'm gonna kill him," Horn said. "Stay in the house," the dispatcher said. "They're getting away," Horn replied. "That's all right," the dispatcher said. "Property's not worth killing someone over. OK?" "---damn it," said Horn, who then defied the dispatcher.

"Well, here it goes, buddy, you hear the shotgun clicking, and I'm going," he said.

"Don't go outside," the dispatcher warned.

Self-Defense? Horn says he came out his front door, down his porch and confronted the two burglars. The next sounds heard on the 911 tape are Horn ordering the two men to stop & and then shooting them both.

"Move you're dead," he said, and fired his shotgun three times.

"Both suspects were shot in the back," Pasadena Police Captain A.H. "Bud" Corbett said. "Not at the same angle, but both suspects were hit in the back."

Horn fatally shot the burglars, two illegal immigrants from Colombia named Diego Ortiz and Miguel de Jesus. Stephanie Storey, De Jesus' fiancée, wanted to see Joe Horn prosecuted.

"This man took the law into his own hands," she said. "He shot two individuals in the back after having been told over and over to stay inside. It was his choice to go outside and his choice to take two lives."

Horn turned down an ABC News request for an interview but his attorney Tom Lambright insists Horn was entirely justified.

Man Cleared for Killing Neighbor s Burglars - ABC News

Do you make anything but idiotic drive by comments? Address the point instead of flopping around. Why was he drug back?

You asked me to explain why I thought it was legal to drag him back in front of his house, I explained why I thought it was. How deos that not address your pathetic post?

I missed your explanation, maybe you could tone down the flatulence level a bit there quantum gasbag. Obviously he drug him back because he knew he would be in deep shit so you're wrong. You can't just shoot anyone for stealing anywhere, read the law and quit posting what you think the law should be.

Explain THIS THEN: this man killed 2 people that robbed his neighbor's house, used the Castle Doctrine as his defense and he was CLEARED....

Home> Cuomo on the Case
Man Cleared for Killing Neighbor's Burglars
June 30, 2008
By CHRIS BURY and HOWARD L. ROSENBERG via Nightline


A Texas man who shot and killed two men he believed to be burglarizing his neighbor's home won't be going to trial. A grand jury today failed to indict Joe Horn, a 61-year-old computer technician who lives in an affluent subdivision in Pasadena, Texas.

In the Lone Star state, where the six-gun tamed the frontier, shooting bad guys is a time-honored tradition, and Horn's case centered on a Texas state law based on the old idea that "a man's home is his castle." The "castle law" gives Texans unprecedented legal authority to use deadly force in their homes, vehicles and workplaces. And no longer do they have an obligation to retreat, if possible, before they shoot.

"I understand the concerns of some in the community regarding Mr. Horn's conduct," Harris County District Attorney Kenneth Magidson told reporters at the courthouse. "The use of deadly force is carefully limited in Texas law to certain circumstances. ... In this case, however, the grand jury concluded that Mr. Horn use of deadly force did not rise to a criminal offense."



null
null


'I'm Gonna Shoot!' Horn called 911 in November to report a burglary in broad daylight at the house next door.

"I've got a shotgun; you want me to stop him?" Horn asked the dispatcher.

"Nope. Don't do that," the dispatcher replied. "Ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?"

Horn was clearly upset by the dispatcher's response.

"I'm not gonna let them get away with it," he said. "I can't take a chance getting killed over this, OK."

Despite the dispatcher's protects, Horn said, "I'm gonna shoot! I'm gonna shoot!"

The 911 dispatcher warned Horn to stay inside at least a dozen separate times, telling him, "An officer is coming out there. I don't want you to go outside that house."

Then Horn sounding angrier by the moment cited the new Texas law.

"OK, but I have a right to protect myself too, sir," he said. "And you understand that. And the laws have been changed in this country since September the first, and you know it and I know it."

Moments later, Horn saw two burglars leave his neighbor's house, one of them carrying a bag filled with cash and jewelry.

"I'm gonna kill him," Horn said. "Stay in the house," the dispatcher said. "They're getting away," Horn replied. "That's all right," the dispatcher said. "Property's not worth killing someone over. OK?" "---damn it," said Horn, who then defied the dispatcher.

"Well, here it goes, buddy, you hear the shotgun clicking, and I'm going," he said.

"Don't go outside," the dispatcher warned.

Self-Defense? Horn says he came out his front door, down his porch and confronted the two burglars. The next sounds heard on the 911 tape are Horn ordering the two men to stop & and then shooting them both.

"Move you're dead," he said, and fired his shotgun three times.

"Both suspects were shot in the back," Pasadena Police Captain A.H. "Bud" Corbett said. "Not at the same angle, but both suspects were hit in the back."

Horn fatally shot the burglars, two illegal immigrants from Colombia named Diego Ortiz and Miguel de Jesus. Stephanie Storey, De Jesus' fiancée, wanted to see Joe Horn prosecuted.

"This man took the law into his own hands," she said. "He shot two individuals in the back after having been told over and over to stay inside. It was his choice to go outside and his choice to take two lives."

Horn turned down an ABC News request for an interview but his attorney Tom Lambright insists Horn was entirely justified.

Man Cleared for Killing Neighbor s Burglars - ABC News

That's a different case with different circumstances. I said from the beginning that details matter. I also am not a Texas lawyer but I did quote the law and my guess is that he got off because he warned them, so they knew he was aware of their crime, they apparently refused to stop and it was the only way to prevent the theft. Also the report is biased, as usual, since he obviously didn't take the law into his own hands.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Do you make anything but idiotic drive by comments? Address the point instead of flopping around. Why was he drug back?

You asked me to explain why I thought it was legal to drag him back in front of his house, I explained why I thought it was. How deos that not address your pathetic post?

I missed your explanation, maybe you could tone down the flatulence level a bit there quantum gasbag. Obviously he drug him back because he knew he would be in deep shit so you're wrong. You can't just shoot anyone for stealing anywhere, read the law and quit posting what you think the law should be.

Explain THIS THEN: this man killed 2 people that robbed his neighbor's house, used the Castle Doctrine as his defense and he was CLEARED....

Home> Cuomo on the Case
Man Cleared for Killing Neighbor's Burglars
June 30, 2008
By CHRIS BURY and HOWARD L. ROSENBERG via Nightline


A Texas man who shot and killed two men he believed to be burglarizing his neighbor's home won't be going to trial. A grand jury today failed to indict Joe Horn, a 61-year-old computer technician who lives in an affluent subdivision in Pasadena, Texas.

In the Lone Star state, where the six-gun tamed the frontier, shooting bad guys is a time-honored tradition, and Horn's case centered on a Texas state law based on the old idea that "a man's home is his castle." The "castle law" gives Texans unprecedented legal authority to use deadly force in their homes, vehicles and workplaces. And no longer do they have an obligation to retreat, if possible, before they shoot.

"I understand the concerns of some in the community regarding Mr. Horn's conduct," Harris County District Attorney Kenneth Magidson told reporters at the courthouse. "The use of deadly force is carefully limited in Texas law to certain circumstances. ... In this case, however, the grand jury concluded that Mr. Horn use of deadly force did not rise to a criminal offense."



null
null


'I'm Gonna Shoot!' Horn called 911 in November to report a burglary in broad daylight at the house next door.

"I've got a shotgun; you want me to stop him?" Horn asked the dispatcher.

"Nope. Don't do that," the dispatcher replied. "Ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?"

Horn was clearly upset by the dispatcher's response.

"I'm not gonna let them get away with it," he said. "I can't take a chance getting killed over this, OK."

Despite the dispatcher's protects, Horn said, "I'm gonna shoot! I'm gonna shoot!"

The 911 dispatcher warned Horn to stay inside at least a dozen separate times, telling him, "An officer is coming out there. I don't want you to go outside that house."

Then Horn sounding angrier by the moment cited the new Texas law.

"OK, but I have a right to protect myself too, sir," he said. "And you understand that. And the laws have been changed in this country since September the first, and you know it and I know it."

Moments later, Horn saw two burglars leave his neighbor's house, one of them carrying a bag filled with cash and jewelry.

"I'm gonna kill him," Horn said. "Stay in the house," the dispatcher said. "They're getting away," Horn replied. "That's all right," the dispatcher said. "Property's not worth killing someone over. OK?" "---damn it," said Horn, who then defied the dispatcher.

"Well, here it goes, buddy, you hear the shotgun clicking, and I'm going," he said.

"Don't go outside," the dispatcher warned.

Self-Defense? Horn says he came out his front door, down his porch and confronted the two burglars. The next sounds heard on the 911 tape are Horn ordering the two men to stop & and then shooting them both.

"Move you're dead," he said, and fired his shotgun three times.

"Both suspects were shot in the back," Pasadena Police Captain A.H. "Bud" Corbett said. "Not at the same angle, but both suspects were hit in the back."

Horn fatally shot the burglars, two illegal immigrants from Colombia named Diego Ortiz and Miguel de Jesus. Stephanie Storey, De Jesus' fiancée, wanted to see Joe Horn prosecuted.

"This man took the law into his own hands," she said. "He shot two individuals in the back after having been told over and over to stay inside. It was his choice to go outside and his choice to take two lives."

Horn turned down an ABC News request for an interview but his attorney Tom Lambright insists Horn was entirely justified.

Man Cleared for Killing Neighbor s Burglars - ABC News

Do you make anything but idiotic drive by comments? Address the point instead of flopping around. Why was he drug back?

You asked me to explain why I thought it was legal to drag him back in front of his house, I explained why I thought it was. How deos that not address your pathetic post?

I missed your explanation, maybe you could tone down the flatulence level a bit there quantum gasbag. Obviously he drug him back because he knew he would be in deep shit so you're wrong. You can't just shoot anyone for stealing anywhere, read the law and quit posting what you think the law should be.

Explain THIS THEN: this man killed 2 people that robbed his neighbor's house, used the Castle Doctrine as his defense and he was CLEARED....

Home> Cuomo on the Case
Man Cleared for Killing Neighbor's Burglars
June 30, 2008
By CHRIS BURY and HOWARD L. ROSENBERG via Nightline


A Texas man who shot and killed two men he believed to be burglarizing his neighbor's home won't be going to trial. A grand jury today failed to indict Joe Horn, a 61-year-old computer technician who lives in an affluent subdivision in Pasadena, Texas.

In the Lone Star state, where the six-gun tamed the frontier, shooting bad guys is a time-honored tradition, and Horn's case centered on a Texas state law based on the old idea that "a man's home is his castle." The "castle law" gives Texans unprecedented legal authority to use deadly force in their homes, vehicles and workplaces. And no longer do they have an obligation to retreat, if possible, before they shoot.

"I understand the concerns of some in the community regarding Mr. Horn's conduct," Harris County District Attorney Kenneth Magidson told reporters at the courthouse. "The use of deadly force is carefully limited in Texas law to certain circumstances. ... In this case, however, the grand jury concluded that Mr. Horn use of deadly force did not rise to a criminal offense."



null
null


'I'm Gonna Shoot!' Horn called 911 in November to report a burglary in broad daylight at the house next door.

"I've got a shotgun; you want me to stop him?" Horn asked the dispatcher.

"Nope. Don't do that," the dispatcher replied. "Ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?"

Horn was clearly upset by the dispatcher's response.

"I'm not gonna let them get away with it," he said. "I can't take a chance getting killed over this, OK."

Despite the dispatcher's protects, Horn said, "I'm gonna shoot! I'm gonna shoot!"

The 911 dispatcher warned Horn to stay inside at least a dozen separate times, telling him, "An officer is coming out there. I don't want you to go outside that house."

Then Horn sounding angrier by the moment cited the new Texas law.

"OK, but I have a right to protect myself too, sir," he said. "And you understand that. And the laws have been changed in this country since September the first, and you know it and I know it."

Moments later, Horn saw two burglars leave his neighbor's house, one of them carrying a bag filled with cash and jewelry.

"I'm gonna kill him," Horn said. "Stay in the house," the dispatcher said. "They're getting away," Horn replied. "That's all right," the dispatcher said. "Property's not worth killing someone over. OK?" "---damn it," said Horn, who then defied the dispatcher.

"Well, here it goes, buddy, you hear the shotgun clicking, and I'm going," he said.

"Don't go outside," the dispatcher warned.

Self-Defense? Horn says he came out his front door, down his porch and confronted the two burglars. The next sounds heard on the 911 tape are Horn ordering the two men to stop & and then shooting them both.

"Move you're dead," he said, and fired his shotgun three times.

"Both suspects were shot in the back," Pasadena Police Captain A.H. "Bud" Corbett said. "Not at the same angle, but both suspects were hit in the back."

Horn fatally shot the burglars, two illegal immigrants from Colombia named Diego Ortiz and Miguel de Jesus. Stephanie Storey, De Jesus' fiancée, wanted to see Joe Horn prosecuted.

"This man took the law into his own hands," she said. "He shot two individuals in the back after having been told over and over to stay inside. It was his choice to go outside and his choice to take two lives."

Horn turned down an ABC News request for an interview but his attorney Tom Lambright insists Horn was entirely justified.

Man Cleared for Killing Neighbor s Burglars - ABC News

That's a different case with different circumstances. I said from the beginning that details matter. I also am not a Texas lawyer but I did quote the law and my guess is that he got off because he warned them, so they knew he was aware of their crime, they apparently refused to stop and it was the only way to prevent the theft. Also the report is biased, as usual, since he obviously didn't take the law into his own hands.

They don't seem to understand either that a jury can rule whichever way they want within certain parameters. That's wholly different than saying a person shouldn't even be charged.

 

[Care4all]

Do you make anything but idiotic drive by comments? Address the point instead of flopping around. Why was he drug back?

You asked me to explain why I thought it was legal to drag him back in front of his house, I explained why I thought it was. How deos that not address your pathetic post?

I missed your explanation, maybe you could tone down the flatulence level a bit there quantum gasbag. Obviously he drug him back because he knew he would be in deep shit so you're wrong. You can't just shoot anyone for stealing anywhere, read the law and quit posting what you think the law should be.

Explain THIS THEN: this man killed 2 people that robbed his neighbor's house, used the Castle Doctrine as his defense and he was CLEARED....

Home> Cuomo on the Case
Man Cleared for Killing Neighbor's Burglars
June 30, 2008
By CHRIS BURY and HOWARD L. ROSENBERG via Nightline


A Texas man who shot and killed two men he believed to be burglarizing his neighbor's home won't be going to trial. A grand jury today failed to indict Joe Horn, a 61-year-old computer technician who lives in an affluent subdivision in Pasadena, Texas.

In the Lone Star state, where the six-gun tamed the frontier, shooting bad guys is a time-honored tradition, and Horn's case centered on a Texas state law based on the old idea that "a man's home is his castle." The "castle law" gives Texans unprecedented legal authority to use deadly force in their homes, vehicles and workplaces. And no longer do they have an obligation to retreat, if possible, before they shoot.

"I understand the concerns of some in the community regarding Mr. Horn's conduct," Harris County District Attorney Kenneth Magidson told reporters at the courthouse. "The use of deadly force is carefully limited in Texas law to certain circumstances. ... In this case, however, the grand jury concluded that Mr. Horn use of deadly force did not rise to a criminal offense."



null
null


'I'm Gonna Shoot!' Horn called 911 in November to report a burglary in broad daylight at the house next door.

"I've got a shotgun; you want me to stop him?" Horn asked the dispatcher.

"Nope. Don't do that," the dispatcher replied. "Ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?"

Horn was clearly upset by the dispatcher's response.

"I'm not gonna let them get away with it," he said. "I can't take a chance getting killed over this, OK."

Despite the dispatcher's protects, Horn said, "I'm gonna shoot! I'm gonna shoot!"

The 911 dispatcher warned Horn to stay inside at least a dozen separate times, telling him, "An officer is coming out there. I don't want you to go outside that house."

Then Horn sounding angrier by the moment cited the new Texas law.

"OK, but I have a right to protect myself too, sir," he said. "And you understand that. And the laws have been changed in this country since September the first, and you know it and I know it."

Moments later, Horn saw two burglars leave his neighbor's house, one of them carrying a bag filled with cash and jewelry.

"I'm gonna kill him," Horn said. "Stay in the house," the dispatcher said. "They're getting away," Horn replied. "That's all right," the dispatcher said. "Property's not worth killing someone over. OK?" "---damn it," said Horn, who then defied the dispatcher.

"Well, here it goes, buddy, you hear the shotgun clicking, and I'm going," he said.

"Don't go outside," the dispatcher warned.

Self-Defense? Horn says he came out his front door, down his porch and confronted the two burglars. The next sounds heard on the 911 tape are Horn ordering the two men to stop & and then shooting them both.

"Move you're dead," he said, and fired his shotgun three times.

"Both suspects were shot in the back," Pasadena Police Captain A.H. "Bud" Corbett said. "Not at the same angle, but both suspects were hit in the back."

Horn fatally shot the burglars, two illegal immigrants from Colombia named Diego Ortiz and Miguel de Jesus. Stephanie Storey, De Jesus' fiancée, wanted to see Joe Horn prosecuted.

"This man took the law into his own hands," she said. "He shot two individuals in the back after having been told over and over to stay inside. It was his choice to go outside and his choice to take two lives."

Horn turned down an ABC News request for an interview but his attorney Tom Lambright insists Horn was entirely justified.

Man Cleared for Killing Neighbor s Burglars - ABC News

Do you make anything but idiotic drive by comments? Address the point instead of flopping around. Why was he drug back?

You asked me to explain why I thought it was legal to drag him back in front of his house, I explained why I thought it was. How deos that not address your pathetic post?

I missed your explanation, maybe you could tone down the flatulence level a bit there quantum gasbag. Obviously he drug him back because he knew he would be in deep shit so you're wrong. You can't just shoot anyone for stealing anywhere, read the law and quit posting what you think the law should be.

Explain THIS THEN: this man killed 2 people that robbed his neighbor's house, used the Castle Doctrine as his defense and he was CLEARED....

Home> Cuomo on the Case
Man Cleared for Killing Neighbor's Burglars
June 30, 2008
By CHRIS BURY and HOWARD L. ROSENBERG via Nightline


A Texas man who shot and killed two men he believed to be burglarizing his neighbor's home won't be going to trial. A grand jury today failed to indict Joe Horn, a 61-year-old computer technician who lives in an affluent subdivision in Pasadena, Texas.

In the Lone Star state, where the six-gun tamed the frontier, shooting bad guys is a time-honored tradition, and Horn's case centered on a Texas state law based on the old idea that "a man's home is his castle." The "castle law" gives Texans unprecedented legal authority to use deadly force in their homes, vehicles and workplaces. And no longer do they have an obligation to retreat, if possible, before they shoot.

"I understand the concerns of some in the community regarding Mr. Horn's conduct," Harris County District Attorney Kenneth Magidson told reporters at the courthouse. "The use of deadly force is carefully limited in Texas law to certain circumstances. ... In this case, however, the grand jury concluded that Mr. Horn use of deadly force did not rise to a criminal offense."



null
null


'I'm Gonna Shoot!' Horn called 911 in November to report a burglary in broad daylight at the house next door.

"I've got a shotgun; you want me to stop him?" Horn asked the dispatcher.

"Nope. Don't do that," the dispatcher replied. "Ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?"

Horn was clearly upset by the dispatcher's response.

"I'm not gonna let them get away with it," he said. "I can't take a chance getting killed over this, OK."

Despite the dispatcher's protects, Horn said, "I'm gonna shoot! I'm gonna shoot!"

The 911 dispatcher warned Horn to stay inside at least a dozen separate times, telling him, "An officer is coming out there. I don't want you to go outside that house."

Then Horn sounding angrier by the moment cited the new Texas law.

"OK, but I have a right to protect myself too, sir," he said. "And you understand that. And the laws have been changed in this country since September the first, and you know it and I know it."

Moments later, Horn saw two burglars leave his neighbor's house, one of them carrying a bag filled with cash and jewelry.

"I'm gonna kill him," Horn said. "Stay in the house," the dispatcher said. "They're getting away," Horn replied. "That's all right," the dispatcher said. "Property's not worth killing someone over. OK?" "---damn it," said Horn, who then defied the dispatcher.

"Well, here it goes, buddy, you hear the shotgun clicking, and I'm going," he said.

"Don't go outside," the dispatcher warned.

Self-Defense? Horn says he came out his front door, down his porch and confronted the two burglars. The next sounds heard on the 911 tape are Horn ordering the two men to stop & and then shooting them both.

"Move you're dead," he said, and fired his shotgun three times.

"Both suspects were shot in the back," Pasadena Police Captain A.H. "Bud" Corbett said. "Not at the same angle, but both suspects were hit in the back."

Horn fatally shot the burglars, two illegal immigrants from Colombia named Diego Ortiz and Miguel de Jesus. Stephanie Storey, De Jesus' fiancée, wanted to see Joe Horn prosecuted.

"This man took the law into his own hands," she said. "He shot two individuals in the back after having been told over and over to stay inside. It was his choice to go outside and his choice to take two lives."

Horn turned down an ABC News request for an interview but his attorney Tom Lambright insists Horn was entirely justified.

Man Cleared for Killing Neighbor s Burglars - ABC News

That's a different case with different circumstances. I said from the beginning that details matter. I also am not a Texas lawyer but I did quote the law and my guess is that he got off because he warned them, so they knew he was aware of their crime, they apparently refused to stop and it was the only way to prevent the theft. Also the report is biased, as usual, since he obviously didn't take the law into his own hands.

They don't seem to understand either that a jury can rule whichever way they want within certain parameters. That's wholly different than saying a person shouldn't even be charged.

A Grand Jury, or a Jury.....? Doesn't the GRAND JURY decide on who shouldn't be charged or should be charged? Has this case with this man gone before a grand jury....? Do all cases go before a grand jury? I am ignorant on the process....

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You speak with great flatulence. Hence your screen name I assume.

The law isn't as clear cut as you pretended. You apparently have to show it was the only way to prevent the crime. Blowing the back of someone's head off without them knowing you are there doesn't qualify. If you live in Texas please turn in your guns.

I don't recall saying the law is clear cut, I just said you are wrong. You are.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I missed your explanation, maybe you could tone down the flatulence level a bit there quantum gasbag. Obviously he drug him back because he knew he would be in deep shit so you're wrong. You can't just shoot anyone for stealing anywhere, read the law and quit posting what you think the law should be.

You didn't miss it, you actually responded to it, and then tried to claim I was saying something else.

 

[Iceweasel]

I don't recall saying the law is clear cut, I just said you are wrong. You are.

I was talking about the subject matter, I didn't say it was never legal to shoot someone outside your home. Get over yourself.

 

[Iceweasel]

I missed your explanation, maybe you could tone down the flatulence level a bit there quantum gasbag. Obviously he drug him back because he knew he would be in deep shit so you're wrong. You can't just shoot anyone for stealing anywhere, read the law and quit posting what you think the law should be.

You didn't miss it, you actually responded to it, and then tried to claim I was saying something else.

Now you're trying to obfuscate. I said it's obvious why he drug the guy back to his property so you're obviously wrong and it wasn't a legal shoot the way you made it sound. Play your stupid kid games elsewhere.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What an asshole. Your posts are getting real old real fast. I said in the beginning that it would depend on circumstances. You hopped into the thread without reading anything apparently. What's wrong with you? I also said I would most definitely not be shooting at people outside my house. I think that's what really got him in hot water. And since you haven't read shit, I also said I'll wait for the facts to come out. Unlike some of you.

The first post I responded to was the second post in the thread where you said:

My thoughts are he's screwed. Your pathetic plea notwithstanding, if they are not IN your home you cannot claim self defense. Your clue that it's more of an op-ed piece is the broad brushing and trying to blur the issue with multiple accounts. It all has to be looked at on a case by case basis. I also have a hard time believing they didn't identify themselves.

If you read that post you will see you said in the second sentence that they have to be in the house in order for a person to claim self defense. That is demonstrably wrong, end of your attempt to obfuscate the issue by claiming that your comment that you said it depends, because that comment was obviously about your opinion, not the actual facts in the case where even the police admit they were not yet inside the house.

By the way, a no knock raid means that, by definition, the police do not announce themselves, they just break in. That means that you having a hard tme believing they didn't announce themselves is stupid.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

A Grand Jury, or a Jury.....? Doesn't the GRAND JURY decide on who shouldn't be charged or should be charged? Has this case with this man gone before a grand jury....? Do all cases go before a grand jury? I am ignorant on the process....

The prosecutor can file charges, and then take the case to the grand jury. The prosecutor has basically announced his intent to try to get the grand jury to charge him with 1st degree murder in this case.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I was talking about the subject matter, I didn't say it was never legal to shoot someone outside your home. Get over yourself.

Let me get this straight, when you said that unless the person is in your home you cannot claim self defense you didn't actually say it.

Nice to know.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

[Now you're trying to obfuscate. I said it's obvious why he drug the guy back to his property so you're obviously wrong and it wasn't a legal shoot the way you made it sound. Play your stupid kid games elsewhere.

It's obvious? Did he do it to try and get him help? Did he do it because he thought he was going to run away? Did he do it because the guy was already dead and he wanted to make himself look better? Do you know more about the case than I do? Keep in mind before you answer that all you know about the case is what I posted, while I worked with the grandmother for years, and saw the news stories on TV and in the paper.

 

[Iceweasel]

If you read that post you will see you said in the second sentence that they have to be in the house in order for a person to claim self defense. That is demonstrably wrong, end of your attempt to obfuscate the issue by claiming that your comment that you said it depends, because that comment was obviously about your opinion, not the actual facts in the case where even the police admit they were not yet inside the house.

By the way, a no knock raid means that, by definition, the police do not announce themselves, they just break in. That means that you having a hard tme believing they didn't announce themselves is stupid.

I said it has to be looked at on a case by case basis in that post, genius. I was talking about the officers not in the home and cited Texas law that doesn't make your broad claim. I do have a hard time believing they didn't identify themselves, especially when shots were fired. Whether you approve or not isn't important.

 

[Iceweasel]

I was talking about the subject matter, I didn't say it was never legal to shoot someone outside your home. Get over yourself.

:et me get this straight, when you said that unless the person is in your home you cannot claim self defense you didn't actually say it.

Nice to know.

Quantum Gasbag, you can't read in context, that much is certain.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

You asked me to explain why I thought it was legal to drag him back in front of his house, I explained why I thought it was. How deos that not address your pathetic post?

I missed your explanation, maybe you could tone down the flatulence level a bit there quantum gasbag. Obviously he drug him back because he knew he would be in deep shit so you're wrong. You can't just shoot anyone for stealing anywhere, read the law and quit posting what you think the law should be.

Explain THIS THEN: this man killed 2 people that robbed his neighbor's house, used the Castle Doctrine as his defense and he was CLEARED....

Home> Cuomo on the Case
Man Cleared for Killing Neighbor's Burglars
June 30, 2008
By CHRIS BURY and HOWARD L. ROSENBERG via Nightline


A Texas man who shot and killed two men he believed to be burglarizing his neighbor's home won't be going to trial. A grand jury today failed to indict Joe Horn, a 61-year-old computer technician who lives in an affluent subdivision in Pasadena, Texas.

In the Lone Star state, where the six-gun tamed the frontier, shooting bad guys is a time-honored tradition, and Horn's case centered on a Texas state law based on the old idea that "a man's home is his castle." The "castle law" gives Texans unprecedented legal authority to use deadly force in their homes, vehicles and workplaces. And no longer do they have an obligation to retreat, if possible, before they shoot.

"I understand the concerns of some in the community regarding Mr. Horn's conduct," Harris County District Attorney Kenneth Magidson told reporters at the courthouse. "The use of deadly force is carefully limited in Texas law to certain circumstances. ... In this case, however, the grand jury concluded that Mr. Horn use of deadly force did not rise to a criminal offense."



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'I'm Gonna Shoot!' Horn called 911 in November to report a burglary in broad daylight at the house next door.

"I've got a shotgun; you want me to stop him?" Horn asked the dispatcher.

"Nope. Don't do that," the dispatcher replied. "Ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?"

Horn was clearly upset by the dispatcher's response.

"I'm not gonna let them get away with it," he said. "I can't take a chance getting killed over this, OK."

Despite the dispatcher's protects, Horn said, "I'm gonna shoot! I'm gonna shoot!"

The 911 dispatcher warned Horn to stay inside at least a dozen separate times, telling him, "An officer is coming out there. I don't want you to go outside that house."

Then Horn sounding angrier by the moment cited the new Texas law.

"OK, but I have a right to protect myself too, sir," he said. "And you understand that. And the laws have been changed in this country since September the first, and you know it and I know it."

Moments later, Horn saw two burglars leave his neighbor's house, one of them carrying a bag filled with cash and jewelry.

"I'm gonna kill him," Horn said. "Stay in the house," the dispatcher said. "They're getting away," Horn replied. "That's all right," the dispatcher said. "Property's not worth killing someone over. OK?" "---damn it," said Horn, who then defied the dispatcher.

"Well, here it goes, buddy, you hear the shotgun clicking, and I'm going," he said.

"Don't go outside," the dispatcher warned.

Self-Defense? Horn says he came out his front door, down his porch and confronted the two burglars. The next sounds heard on the 911 tape are Horn ordering the two men to stop & and then shooting them both.

"Move you're dead," he said, and fired his shotgun three times.

"Both suspects were shot in the back," Pasadena Police Captain A.H. "Bud" Corbett said. "Not at the same angle, but both suspects were hit in the back."

Horn fatally shot the burglars, two illegal immigrants from Colombia named Diego Ortiz and Miguel de Jesus. Stephanie Storey, De Jesus' fiancée, wanted to see Joe Horn prosecuted.

"This man took the law into his own hands," she said. "He shot two individuals in the back after having been told over and over to stay inside. It was his choice to go outside and his choice to take two lives."

Horn turned down an ABC News request for an interview but his attorney Tom Lambright insists Horn was entirely justified.

Man Cleared for Killing Neighbor s Burglars - ABC News

You asked me to explain why I thought it was legal to drag him back in front of his house, I explained why I thought it was. How deos that not address your pathetic post?

I missed your explanation, maybe you could tone down the flatulence level a bit there quantum gasbag. Obviously he drug him back because he knew he would be in deep shit so you're wrong. You can't just shoot anyone for stealing anywhere, read the law and quit posting what you think the law should be.

Explain THIS THEN: this man killed 2 people that robbed his neighbor's house, used the Castle Doctrine as his defense and he was CLEARED....

Home> Cuomo on the Case
Man Cleared for Killing Neighbor's Burglars
June 30, 2008
By CHRIS BURY and HOWARD L. ROSENBERG via Nightline


A Texas man who shot and killed two men he believed to be burglarizing his neighbor's home won't be going to trial. A grand jury today failed to indict Joe Horn, a 61-year-old computer technician who lives in an affluent subdivision in Pasadena, Texas.

In the Lone Star state, where the six-gun tamed the frontier, shooting bad guys is a time-honored tradition, and Horn's case centered on a Texas state law based on the old idea that "a man's home is his castle." The "castle law" gives Texans unprecedented legal authority to use deadly force in their homes, vehicles and workplaces. And no longer do they have an obligation to retreat, if possible, before they shoot.

"I understand the concerns of some in the community regarding Mr. Horn's conduct," Harris County District Attorney Kenneth Magidson told reporters at the courthouse. "The use of deadly force is carefully limited in Texas law to certain circumstances. ... In this case, however, the grand jury concluded that Mr. Horn use of deadly force did not rise to a criminal offense."



null
null


'I'm Gonna Shoot!' Horn called 911 in November to report a burglary in broad daylight at the house next door.

"I've got a shotgun; you want me to stop him?" Horn asked the dispatcher.

"Nope. Don't do that," the dispatcher replied. "Ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?"

Horn was clearly upset by the dispatcher's response.

"I'm not gonna let them get away with it," he said. "I can't take a chance getting killed over this, OK."

Despite the dispatcher's protects, Horn said, "I'm gonna shoot! I'm gonna shoot!"

The 911 dispatcher warned Horn to stay inside at least a dozen separate times, telling him, "An officer is coming out there. I don't want you to go outside that house."

Then Horn sounding angrier by the moment cited the new Texas law.

"OK, but I have a right to protect myself too, sir," he said. "And you understand that. And the laws have been changed in this country since September the first, and you know it and I know it."

Moments later, Horn saw two burglars leave his neighbor's house, one of them carrying a bag filled with cash and jewelry.

"I'm gonna kill him," Horn said. "Stay in the house," the dispatcher said. "They're getting away," Horn replied. "That's all right," the dispatcher said. "Property's not worth killing someone over. OK?" "---damn it," said Horn, who then defied the dispatcher.

"Well, here it goes, buddy, you hear the shotgun clicking, and I'm going," he said.

"Don't go outside," the dispatcher warned.

Self-Defense? Horn says he came out his front door, down his porch and confronted the two burglars. The next sounds heard on the 911 tape are Horn ordering the two men to stop & and then shooting them both.

"Move you're dead," he said, and fired his shotgun three times.

"Both suspects were shot in the back," Pasadena Police Captain A.H. "Bud" Corbett said. "Not at the same angle, but both suspects were hit in the back."

Horn fatally shot the burglars, two illegal immigrants from Colombia named Diego Ortiz and Miguel de Jesus. Stephanie Storey, De Jesus' fiancée, wanted to see Joe Horn prosecuted.

"This man took the law into his own hands," she said. "He shot two individuals in the back after having been told over and over to stay inside. It was his choice to go outside and his choice to take two lives."

Horn turned down an ABC News request for an interview but his attorney Tom Lambright insists Horn was entirely justified.

Man Cleared for Killing Neighbor s Burglars - ABC News

That's a different case with different circumstances. I said from the beginning that details matter. I also am not a Texas lawyer but I did quote the law and my guess is that he got off because he warned them, so they knew he was aware of their crime, they apparently refused to stop and it was the only way to prevent the theft. Also the report is biased, as usual, since he obviously didn't take the law into his own hands.

They don't seem to understand either that a jury can rule whichever way they want within certain parameters. That's wholly different than saying a person shouldn't even be charged.

A Grand Jury, or a Jury.....? Doesn't the GRAND JURY decide on who shouldn't be charged or should be charged? Has this case with this man gone before a grand jury....? Do all cases go before a grand jury? I am ignorant on the process....

No ma'am, that is NOT what a grand jury does.

A DA decides whether charges are merited, a grand jury decides if the basic facts allow for an indictment, then a jury decides guilt or non guilt.

Not all charges lead to an indictment.

ANd further, an affirmative defense will never be mentioned in front of a grand jury. All they consider is the basic facts, The police responsed to this house and were fired at from someone in the house. Facts that speak to an indictment? Yes?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Quantum Gasbag, you can't read in context, that much is certain.

Perhaps you should learn how to write. You might not have meant to say what you did, but that does not change the fact that you said it. If you had simply said you didn't mean what you said we wouldn't be having this discussion, and you wouldn't be forced to claim you didn't say what you said.

 

[MikeK]

If someone's first thought when somoene kicks in their front door is shoot defensively at them, to me that's an admission of being up to no good since usually that's suggestive of police.

Such naively submissive reasoning assigns much too much obeisance to police authority.

Having done nothing wrong one might be expected to be sufficiently outraged by anyone breaking down their door to kill them!

You might be interested to know the Davidian survivors who were charged with murder for shooting the BATF agents who were breaking into the compound at Waco were acquitted of those charges by a Texas jury. Because according to Texas law one is justified in using deadly force against anyone breaking into one's home -- including law enforcement officers whose action is not justified. And BATF's actions in that example were not justified in accordance with Texas law.

Further, these door-busting SWAT raids have become much too common in recent years. Go here for details: Botched Paramilitary Police Raids Cato Institute

 

[R.C. Christian]

And people wonder why we hate cops. The pigs in Penn are knocking down doors and terrorizing people because some dumb ass capped a few of them. We saw this same behavior in Mass and California. It's a pig fun fest. Whenever their kind get whacked they'll go on a roid raging piglet vendetta.

As for this particular case, it is not uncommon for SWAT fags to knock down the wrong door for petty drug offenses and kill everything that moves.

 

[Care4all]

And people wonder why we hate cops. The pigs in Penn are knocking down doors and terrorizing people because some dumb ass capped a few of them. We saw this same behavior in Mass and California. It's a pig fun fest. Whenever their kind get whacked they'll go on a roid raging piglet vendetta.

As for this particular case, it is not uncommon for SWAT fags to knock down the wrong door for petty drug offenses and kill everything that moves.

I don't think cops are all pigs, as you seem to....and I don't think these cops or swat teams are the root of the problem with no knock searches, it is the department policies on no knock searches that is the problem, and these guys doing the grunt work, probably have nothing to do with that...they are just following department orders or department policies or department protocol....

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

Why do you keep bringing up the issue of whether the person in the house was actually a criminal or not? It's irrelevant. A guy could have a thousand kilos of cocaine and 5 kidnapped women in his basement and if the police come in illegally and he shoots and kills one he WILL get off for self defense.

A jury will have to consider everything that is important.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

"Uh hell no, I didn't take time to out, I just shot him

Go to jail

Unless you get a stupid jury. Which is of course possible.

The only thing that can be stupid about this entire ordeal is the no-knock raid.