Man Shoots At Intruders, Turns Out It Was A No-knock Raid. Now He Faces The Death Penalty

[Quantum Windbag]

I would assume that if the cops outside where wearing vests that the cop coming in the window would also be wearing a vest.

IF this guy claims stand your ground he will have to prove he didn't know the guy coming through his window was the police. If he makes his case he goes free, if not , well see you in 15-20. I don't know why people are making it more difficult than that.

Damn, you are a stupid liar.

Like I said I enjoyed that, because no one would look out the window someone was climbing through to see if there were other cops around. They would either run, or fight. This guy fought.

By the way, he who doesn't know his ass from his elbow, stand your ground does not apply when you are on you own property in Texas. The fact that you continue ti invoke an irrelevant doctrine just shows why I am calling you stupid. Another point, no one invokes stand your ground in a trial, they claim self defense. But, please, keep expounding on your ignorance.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

And it IS REASONABLE to think this was self defense...

There is no article and no police report release that states the police officers announced themselves.....not ONE mention of it that I have read.

In the case with the white guy that I linked above, who also killed a cop in the no knock raid on his home....police supposedly announced they were cops but he was not prosecuted because the grand jury felt it was reasonable for this white guy to believe his home was being invaded by someone that was going to harm him....

AND HE DID have the illegal drugs that they had the warrant for....

It's REASONABLE to assume the police didn't follow protocol and announce themselves?

And I'm sorry but I missed your link.

Announcing before entry is begun in any manner is protocol in a surprise no-knock raid? Link?

No, announcing AS you make entry is standard protocol, and legally required.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

And it IS REASONABLE to think this was self defense...

There is no article and no police report release that states the police officers announced themselves.....not ONE mention of it that I have read.

In the case with the white guy that I linked above, who also killed a cop in the no knock raid on his home....police supposedly announced they were cops but he was not prosecuted because the grand jury felt it was reasonable for this white guy to believe his home was being invaded by someone that was going to harm him....

AND HE DID have the illegal drugs that they had the warrant for....

It's REASONABLE to assume the police didn't follow protocol and announce themselves?

And I'm sorry but I missed your link.

Announcing before entry is begun in any manner is protocol in a surprise no-knock raid? Link?

No, announcing AS you make entry is standard protocol, and legally required.

Breaking a window is not making entry. It is attempting to make an entry.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

Man Shoots at Intruders Turns Out it was a No-Knock Raid. Now He Faces the Death Penalty The Free Thought Project

Dinwiddie, along with three other officers were shot while attempting to breach the windows to the home, according to the department’s press release.

“The TRU was beginning to breach the window when the 49 year old male inside, opened fire striking four officers.”

That is not making entry.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

I would assume that if the cops outside where wearing vests that the cop coming in the window would also be wearing a vest.

IF this guy claims stand your ground he will have to prove he didn't know the guy coming through his window was the police. If he makes his case he goes free, if not , well see you in 15-20. I don't know why people are making it more difficult than that.

Damn, you are a stupid liar.

Like I said I enjoyed that, because no one would look out the window someone was climbing through to see if there were other cops around. They would either run, or fight. This guy fought.

By the way, he who doesn't know his ass from his elbow, stand your ground does not apply when you are on you own property in Texas. The fact that you continue ti invoke an irrelevant doctrine just shows why I am calling you stupid. Another point, no one invokes stand your ground in a trial, they claim self defense. But, please, keep expounding on your ignorance.

Oh , you really want to challenge me here?

A) I didn't say SHIT about about looking out the window, I merely said it is reasonable to assume that if the police outside had vests that said "police" that the guy crawling in the window did as well - plus legally that guy crawling in the window is REQUIRED to announce himself as police , if he didn't then the guy is not guilty I've said that since page one of this thread. If it's reasonable to assume that is true, then it is obviously unreasonable to assume that the folks outside were wearing police vests but the guy coming in through the window was not. Both things can't be reasonable.

B) In this instance stand your ground and the castle law can be used interchangeably, that doesn't mean they always are, but in THIS case they are. You are standing your ground in your own castle. NO state has stand your ground laws without having castle laws. In fact stand your ground laws are nothing but an extension of castle laws.

C) Both castle laws and stand your ground laws ARE self defense claims. And as such are AFFIRMATIVE defenses. Meaning as I said earlier that the burden of proof falls on the defendant, he must PROVE that he legally defended himself or his property. Shooting a police officer who is serving a duly sworn warrant is NOT legal, so therefor he must PROVE that he didn't know it was a cop.

HOWEVER there is one key thing that makes ALL stand your ground claims self defense claims, but not all self defense claims stand your ground claims.

If you claim just self defense you MUST show that you attempted to get away from the danger before using force on your own. Under stand your ground laws, there is no such requirement.

Although that is largely irrelevant here because the castle law allows him to defend his home without retreating.

I stand by what I have said all along. If this guy can reasonably show that he didn't know it was the police he will walk. If not, it's 15-20 for him

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

And it IS REASONABLE to think this was self defense...

There is no article and no police report release that states the police officers announced themselves.....not ONE mention of it that I have read.

In the case with the white guy that I linked above, who also killed a cop in the no knock raid on his home....police supposedly announced they were cops but he was not prosecuted because the grand jury felt it was reasonable for this white guy to believe his home was being invaded by someone that was going to harm him....

AND HE DID have the illegal drugs that they had the warrant for....

It's REASONABLE to assume the police didn't follow protocol and announce themselves?

And I'm sorry but I missed your link.

Announcing before entry is begun in any manner is protocol in a surprise no-knock raid? Link?

No, announcing AS you make entry is standard protocol, and legally required.

Breaking a window is not making entry. It is attempting to make an entry.

Have you ever participated in something like this? No? Then shut the fuck up with your dumb shit nonsense. You don't break the window, then stand around for a bit before entering, you kick the window in AS you are entering the building.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

And it IS REASONABLE to think this was self defense...

There is no article and no police report release that states the police officers announced themselves.....not ONE mention of it that I have read.

In the case with the white guy that I linked above, who also killed a cop in the no knock raid on his home....police supposedly announced they were cops but he was not prosecuted because the grand jury felt it was reasonable for this white guy to believe his home was being invaded by someone that was going to harm him....

AND HE DID have the illegal drugs that they had the warrant for....

It's REASONABLE to assume the police didn't follow protocol and announce themselves?

And I'm sorry but I missed your link.

Announcing before entry is begun in any manner is protocol in a surprise no-knock raid? Link?

No, announcing AS you make entry is standard protocol, and legally required.

Breaking a window is not making entry. It is attempting to make an entry.

Have you ever participated in something like this? No? Then shut the fuck up with your dumb shit nonsense. You don't break the window, then stand around for a bit before entering, you kick the window in AS you are entering the building.

I asked for a link. You don't give it to me, and instead you say they announce when they make entry, but the police themselves admit they never made entry, and I should shut up.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

It's REASONABLE to assume the police didn't follow protocol and announce themselves?

And I'm sorry but I missed your link.

Announcing before entry is begun in any manner is protocol in a surprise no-knock raid? Link?

No, announcing AS you make entry is standard protocol, and legally required.

Breaking a window is not making entry. It is attempting to make an entry.

Have you ever participated in something like this? No? Then shut the fuck up with your dumb shit nonsense. You don't break the window, then stand around for a bit before entering, you kick the window in AS you are entering the building.

I asked for a link. You don't give it to me, and instead you say they announce when they make entry, but the police themselves admit they never made entry, and I should shut up.

what does that have to do with the hypothetical we were discussing. I already know the police didn't make entry in this particular case

I was merely clarifying that they don't shout police search warrant and then start crossing your yard, they yell it AS they are coming in.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

Announcing before entry is begun in any manner is protocol in a surprise no-knock raid? Link?

No, announcing AS you make entry is standard protocol, and legally required.

Breaking a window is not making entry. It is attempting to make an entry.

Have you ever participated in something like this? No? Then shut the fuck up with your dumb shit nonsense. You don't break the window, then stand around for a bit before entering, you kick the window in AS you are entering the building.

I asked for a link. You don't give it to me, and instead you say they announce when they make entry, but the police themselves admit they never made entry, and I should shut up.

what does that have to do with the hypothetical we were discussing. I already know the police didn't make entry in this particular case

I was merely clarifying that they don't shout police search warrant and then start crossing your yard, they yell it AS they are coming in.

I just posted the quote from the police, and again you have disregarded it. They were beginning to come in, which is not the same as coming in. Anyway, I asked for a link about your claim that it is standard protocol for police to announce before entering or when just beginning to enter, and you still haven't given me THAT link.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

No, announcing AS you make entry is standard protocol, and legally required.

Breaking a window is not making entry. It is attempting to make an entry.

Have you ever participated in something like this? No? Then shut the fuck up with your dumb shit nonsense. You don't break the window, then stand around for a bit before entering, you kick the window in AS you are entering the building.

I asked for a link. You don't give it to me, and instead you say they announce when they make entry, but the police themselves admit they never made entry, and I should shut up.

what does that have to do with the hypothetical we were discussing. I already know the police didn't make entry in this particular case

I was merely clarifying that they don't shout police search warrant and then start crossing your yard, they yell it AS they are coming in.

I just posted the quote from the police, and again you have disregarded it. They were beginning to come in, which is not the same as coming in. Anyway, I asked for a link about your claim that it is standard protocol for police to announce before entering or when just beginning to enter, and you still haven't given me THAT link.

By law identifying yourself while serving a no knock warrant is not required

Knock-and-announce rule Wex Legal Dictionary Encyclopedia LII Legal Information Institute

In practice however, it is prudent to do so.

Take this sort of situation for example. The homeowner is justified in shooting intruders IF he doesn't know it's the police. Police don't like to be shot, so SOP is to announce as you are coming in the door.

 

[Care4all]

And it IS REASONABLE to think this was self defense...

There is no article and no police report release that states the police officers announced themselves.....not ONE mention of it that I have read.

In the case with the white guy that I linked above, who also killed a cop in the no knock raid on his home....police supposedly announced they were cops but he was not prosecuted because the grand jury felt it was reasonable for this white guy to believe his home was being invaded by someone that was going to harm him....

AND HE DID have the illegal drugs that they had the warrant for....

It's REASONABLE to assume the police didn't follow protocol and announce themselves?

And I'm sorry but I missed your link.

Man Shoots At Intruders Turns Out It Was A No-knock Raid. Now He Faces The Death Penalty Page 9 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
click on that link above
post 175 and click to expand so you can read the article in full.....

this guy shot and killed a policeman in his home from a no knock, and grand jury did not indite him....AND this guy DID have illegal drugs and i believe he had a fire arm illegally as well.....?

So WHY is this man from this thread even being charged, when this other guy was not? State law enforcement doesnt appear to be consistent?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Oh , you really want to challenge me here?

A) I didn't say SHIT about about looking out the window, I merely said it is reasonable to assume that if the police outside had vests that said "police" that the guy crawling in the window did as well - plus legally that guy crawling in the window is REQUIRED to announce himself as police , if he didn't then the guy is not guilty I've said that since page one of this thread. If it's reasonable to assume that is true, then it is obviously unreasonable to assume that the folks outside were wearing police vests but the guy coming in through the window was not. Both things can't be reasonable.

Feel free to explain how a guy in his bedroom would be able to see outside without looking out the window, oh he who thinks he has wits.

B) In this instance stand your ground and the castle law can be used interchangeably, that doesn't mean they always are, but in THIS case they are. You are standing your ground in your own castle. NO state has stand your ground laws without having castle laws. In fact stand your ground laws are nothing but an extension of castle laws.

Wrong again.

C) Both castle laws and stand your ground laws ARE self defense claims. And as such are AFFIRMATIVE defenses. Meaning as I said earlier that the burden of proof falls on the defendant, he must PROVE that he legally defended himself or his property. Shooting a police officer who is serving a duly sworn warrant is NOT legal, so therefor he must PROVE that he didn't know it was a cop.

Actually, he doesn't even begin to have to prove that he knew the guy wasn't a cop. All that is required by the law is that he reasonably believed he was in danger. Even if the prosecutor actually proves the guy knew it was a cop, it is irrelevant because it is perfectly legal to resist any illegal entry into your house with deadly force, even if the guy making that entry is a cop. In fact, you can actually resist an illegal arrest when the officer is using excessive force by using deadly force.

HOWEVER there is one key thing that makes ALL stand your ground claims self defense claims, but not all self defense claims stand your ground claims.

If you claim just self defense you MUST show that you attempted to get away from the danger before using force on your own. Under stand your ground laws, there is no such requirement.

In Texas there is no duty to flee inside your own house.

End of conversational digression.

Although that is largely irrelevant here because the castle law allows him to defend his home without retreating.

I stand by what I have said all along. If this guy can reasonably show that he didn't know it was the police he will walk. If not, it's 15-20 for him

And you would be wrong. In fact, I challenge you to show me that anything in Texas law requires a person to identify his assailant as a police officer before defending himself.

While you are looking for that non existent law, I all sit back and laugh at the idiot who thinks he know the law in Texas better than I do.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Have you ever participated in something like this? No? Then shut the fuck up with your dumb shit nonsense. You don't break the window, then stand around for a bit before entering, you kick the window in AS you are entering the building.

One does not have to participate in a burglary to know the difference between breaking a window and entering the house.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

By law identifying yourself while serving a no knock warrant is not required

Knock-and-announce rule Wex Legal Dictionary Encyclopedia LII Legal Information Institute

In practice however, it is prudent to do so.

Take this sort of situation for example. The homeowner is justified in shooting intruders IF he doesn't know it's the police. Police don't like to be shot, so SOP is to announce as you are coming in the door.

That would depend on the individual department's policies, not you.

 

[Synthaholic]

It most certainly would NOT be legal to shoot someone and then drag them to another location my friend. At a MINIMUM that is tampering with a crime scene.

Yet the prosecutor filed no charges, and I am pretty sure he knows the laws in Texas better than you do.

I wouldn't hold all prosecutors up as flawless, or impartial, or even competent, though.

Look at the OJ trial, or this clown in Ferguson.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

And it IS REASONABLE to think this was self defense...

There is no article and no police report release that states the police officers announced themselves.....not ONE mention of it that I have read.

In the case with the white guy that I linked above, who also killed a cop in the no knock raid on his home....police supposedly announced they were cops but he was not prosecuted because the grand jury felt it was reasonable for this white guy to believe his home was being invaded by someone that was going to harm him....

AND HE DID have the illegal drugs that they had the warrant for....

It's REASONABLE to assume the police didn't follow protocol and announce themselves?

And I'm sorry but I missed your link.

Man Shoots At Intruders Turns Out It Was A No-knock Raid. Now He Faces The Death Penalty Page 9 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
click on that link above
post 175 and click to expand so you can read the article in full.....

this guy shot and killed a policeman in his home from a no knock, and grand jury did not indite him....AND this guy DID have illegal drugs and i believe he had a fire arm illegally as well.....?

So WHY is this man from this thread even being charged, when this other guy was not? State law enforcement doesnt appear to be consistent?

Why do you keep bringing up the issue of whether the person in the house was actually a criminal or not? It's irrelevant. A guy could have a thousand kilos of cocaine and 5 kidnapped women in his basement and if the police come in illegally and he shoots and kills one he WILL get off for self defense.

The key is the police have to be there legally whether the homeowner is a criminal or not.

I've explained this to you. Let's say you live at 123 Sunny Drive and a warrant is filled out for 132 Sunny Drive, but whoever types the warrant up accidentally writes in "123 Sunny Drive" , you're address.

Now, let's say the cops show up to your house and kick in your door and you shoot one of them. Do you think you could get a way with "they had no reason to be here?" Nope, because legally they had a right to be there, they were serving a warrant in good faith if they believed they were at the right address.

Again, know your rights. As for your link honestly I don't know enough to know why the grand jury refused to indict, but you gotta remember OJ was found not guilty. Juries sometimes just do strange things.

 

[auditor0007]

My thoughts are he's screwed. Your pathetic plea notwithstanding, if they are not IN your home you cannot claim self defense. Your clue that it's more of an op-ed piece is the broad brushing and trying to blur the issue with multiple accounts. It all has to be looked at on a case by case basis. I also have a hard time believing they didn't identify themselves.

Until they show a badge, what they say means shit. Good luck finding a jury that will convict. I think the prosecutor should be bitch slapped so hard that his eyes pop out of his head for being so stupid.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

My thoughts are he's screwed. Your pathetic plea notwithstanding, if they are not IN your home you cannot claim self defense. Your clue that it's more of an op-ed piece is the broad brushing and trying to blur the issue with multiple accounts. It all has to be looked at on a case by case basis. I also have a hard time believing they didn't identify themselves.

Until they show a badge, what they say means shit. Good luck finding a jury that will convict. I think the prosecutor should be bitch slapped so hard that his eyes pop out of his head for being so stupid.

That's why SOP is to wear a shield on a lanyard around your neck, badge is right there.

 

[auditor0007]

People get spooked when their space is invaded and their lives are threatened. Their first instinct is to defend themselves.

They don't have time to mull scenarios or decide on different options. They just defend themselves.

No knock searches are a real dumb-ass and dangerous thing to do.

The only way to put an end to these no-knock raids is by awarding victims massive civil awards. If you run a no-knock raid against a family or person and there isn't enough evidence obtained for legitimate charges, then the victim is awarded $10 million. Injure a family member, and the award is $20 million. Kill someone in the home, and the award is $50 million per person. There would never be another no-knock raid in this country. The war on drugs is a massive disaster. Worst of all, in most of these no-knock raids, they are going after two bit dealers rather than big time drug dealers.

 

[Care4all]

And it IS REASONABLE to think this was self defense...

There is no article and no police report release that states the police officers announced themselves.....not ONE mention of it that I have read.

In the case with the white guy that I linked above, who also killed a cop in the no knock raid on his home....police supposedly announced they were cops but he was not prosecuted because the grand jury felt it was reasonable for this white guy to believe his home was being invaded by someone that was going to harm him....

AND HE DID have the illegal drugs that they had the warrant for....

It's REASONABLE to assume the police didn't follow protocol and announce themselves?

And I'm sorry but I missed your link.

Man Shoots At Intruders Turns Out It Was A No-knock Raid. Now He Faces The Death Penalty Page 9 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
click on that link above
post 175 and click to expand so you can read the article in full.....

this guy shot and killed a policeman in his home from a no knock, and grand jury did not indite him....AND this guy DID have illegal drugs and i believe he had a fire arm illegally as well.....?

So WHY is this man from this thread even being charged, when this other guy was not? State law enforcement doesnt appear to be consistent?

Why do you keep bringing up the issue of whether the person in the house was actually a criminal or not? It's irrelevant. A guy could have a thousand kilos of cocaine and 5 kidnapped women in his basement and if the police come in illegally and he shoots and kills one he WILL get off for self defense.

The key is the police have to be there legally whether the homeowner is a criminal or not.

I've explained this to you. Let's say you live at 123 Sunny Drive and a warrant is filled out for 132 Sunny Drive, but whoever types the warrant up accidentally writes in "123 Sunny Drive" , you're address.

Now, let's say the cops show up to your house and kick in your door and you shoot one of them. Do you think you could get a way with "they had no reason to be here?" Nope, because legally they had a right to be there, they were serving a warrant in good faith if they believed they were at the right address.

Again, know your rights. As for your link honestly I don't know enough to know why the grand jury refused to indict, but you gotta remember OJ was found not guilty. Juries sometimes just do strange things.

the reason i bring it up, is because this black man was NOT a criminal, and had no reason at all to believe it would be the police breaking through his window with a legal no knock warrant....NONE! Whereas, the white guy was a criminal, and the police were in his house already, and according to YOU they announced that they were cops upon entry as some sort of protocol, yet the white guy killed one of them, and it was assumed reasonable by the grand jury that he was afraid for his life and did not realize or acknowledge in the craziness of the raid, that it was the police, there in his home legally.... even though they had the vests on that said...police or swat or whatever.....

so this incident with this black man, being charged with first degree murder seems wrong and UNJUST to me....