Making peace with death , spirituality, and religion

[Eaglewings]

I have been going to support groups for woman who's cancer has returned or metastasized dying.

Death is not really the top subjects for people, we feel invincible until something happens and the true nature of grief appears .
The Chemo rooms are filled with people with shocked faces getting treatment. Some so sick but if they stop the chemo they will die.

I am dealing with a cancer return that spread out of the lymph nodes, but not metastasized done with treatment.

Anyway I wanted to share , Being a christian is about your spirit, and not about religion at all.

I have been a christian for years and get so turned off by which religion is right, real, or the more holy.

I do believe in the bible, it should be used as a tool on how to live, how to die, how to let the things go that are out of our control..which basically everything is out of our control except for what kind of person that we want to be.

Religion can take the bible and destroy so many in the most destructive ways .

Some people think that you can only find God in the church
But truly if you are spiritually connected with God , Christ is with you always.

There are no crazy rules to be connected with God ..None what so ever but to choose what kind of person you want to be.
Yeah I know I can have a truck drivers mouth here on the political message board... it has actually been a great distraction.

Asking Him into your life in a simple prayer doesn't mean poof your life is better, and there is a big magical change right in front of your eyes.

Anyway I am still work in progress, it is a journey that we all we face.

 

[yiostheoy]

I have a friend who has metastasized prostate cancer. We have been friends since we were in high school.

The doc's have figured he has only a couple of years left. They will try chemo though.

One of the last things this fellow and I will do is a week-long backpack trip up a mountain and back next month. It will probably be his last such trip.

He wants to hold off regarding the chemo until afterwards since the chemo is debilitating. I don't think he is optimistic about the chemo anyway and therefore just wants to put it off as long as he can.

It is heartbreaking for me since he is my closest friend outside of family.

I imagine when it is all over I will attend his funeral and think back on all the memories we have going back many decades. In high school we were all care free. In college we were all serious and hard working. In our careers we worked hard and put-in a lot of overtime. That's what I remember of him. He was a light hearted and jovial fellow his whole life long and he made others happier too.

Then I too will just wait for my turn whenever that day comes for me as well.

It is just as painful outliving your friends and seeing them die as preceding them in death. Something of you dies with them.

The philosophical response to death and mortality is that none of us is panicked about the millions of years that passed before we were each born. Therefore it is not logical to be panicked about the millions that will yet pass after we have died. That is a modern philosophical, analytical response to death and dying.

The religious response to death within Christianity is to know that this is the only religion with a Son Of God which professes to have risen from death himself and promises us the same if we led a good life and kept his commandments as best we could. It is ethics with a whip and carrot. It is powerful both to promising a lasting reward as well as deterring bad behavior such as murder, theft, and lies.

The other religions besides Christianity foreshadow a sort of blissful state in the eternities with some form of continuation of life, although their philosophical founders did not return to certify it like Jesus did.

Death laughs at us all ultimately. All you can do is laugh back.

 

[Eaglewings]

I have a friend who has metastasized prostate cancer. We have been friends since we were in high school.

The doc's have figured he has only a couple of years left. They will try chemo though.

One of the last things this fellow and I will do is a week-long backpack trip up a mountain and back next month. It will probably be his last such trip.

He wants to hold off regarding the chemo until afterwards since the chemo is debilitating. I don't think he is optimistic about the chemo anyway and therefore just wants to put it off as long as he can.

It is heartbreaking for me since he is my closest friend outside of family.

I imagine when it is all over I will attend his funeral and think back on all the memories we have going back many decades. In high school we were all care free. In college we were all serious and hard working. In our careers we worked hard and put-in a lot of overtime. That's what I remember of him. He was a light hearted and jovial fellow his whole life long and he made others happier too.

Then I too will just wait for my turn whenever that day comes for me as well.

It is just as painful outliving your friends and seeing them die as preceding them in death. Something of you dies with them.

The philosophical response to death and mortality is that none of us is panicked about the millions of years that passed before we were each born. Therefore it is not logical to be panicked about the millions that will yet pass after we have died. That is a modern philosophical, analytical response to death and dying.

The religious response to death within Christianity is to know that this is the only religion with a Son Of God which professes to have risen from death himself and promises us the same if we led a good life and kept his commandments as best we could. It is ethics with a whip and carrot. It is powerful both to promising a lasting reward as well as deterring bad behavior such as murder, theft, and lies.

The other religions besides Christianity foreshadow a sort of blissful state in the eternities with some form of continuation of life, although their philosophical founders did not return to certify it like Jesus did.

Death laughs at us all ultimately. All you can do is laugh back.

Wow what a powerful post!!!

I understand, and have lost family too..Your relationship sounds so tight and rare, very touching the way that you feel about him.

I wish he would get the chemo going quicker,. I wonder what kind of chemo they would do, each person has a different formula and some chemo's are tolerable.
The women in the group with brain cancer are still trying to fight it with treatments..

But I also understand his wanting to wait , to go on the special trip with you..damn it makes me cry. I am sorry ..

Most religions have the same thing in death, a higher place.

It is the religions that push on the only way to get to heaven, and some have hoops to jump through I agree.

I personally feel that spiritual connection, mine is with Christ.
But I don't condemn other higher powers, I am an addiction counselor . I teach people that to find recovery.

Its the spiritual connection I hope people can connect on ..

Do you have a good support system around you?

If you make another post I will reply in the morning..

 

[yiostheoy]

Your post, Mde. Mayor, made me think of my dying friend so I called him this morning.

For the first few minutes we talked about all the physical training we are each doing to get into shape for the big hike next month. Climbing to an elevation of 15,000 ft is no piece of cake and not a given even for two macho military veterans like us two.

So we alternate between bicycle riding, jogging, and hiking with our packs on almost every day. The best workouts come from hiking with the packs on. But this is his least favorite thing. He likes bike riding. But that's just aerobic -- it doesn't strengthen your muscles nor harden your feet.

Then we talked about the Phoenix serial killer who has been haunting that city for the past year. The killer appears to be Latino and he is stalking other Latinos and Negroes, no whites so far. He follows them home and then shoots them in their driveway when they get out of the car. You can't make this up. Everyone in Phoenix is on their guard now. The police are doing extra patrols in the neighborhood trying to find anything unusual or out of place -- cars or trucks that don't belong there.

Then finally we got onto the subject of his chemo plan. Actually radiation is next, starting after the hike. Chemo follows that. His wife and I both are furious that he does not start right away. But he wants to do our hike first.

I asked him how he is dealing with all of this, and he said he just figures it is unavoidable and just a matter of bad luck. I mentioned genetics, not luck, and he agreed. His mother is Italian and strong as a horse in her late 80's. No cancers of any kind. His father died of lung cancer presumably from chain smoking. But maybe the cancer runs in his father's side of the family. We talked about that. His older brother is healthy with no issues. He does not have any sisters. Small family. All extremely bright.

We all knew that 3 years ago when he had his prostate removed that it would be a five year window before we would know if the cancer was coming back. Now we know. It is heartbreaking.

But death stares at us all. None of us escapes death. It is just a matter of time for everyone.

My mom is in her late 80's too and strong as a horse, although her memories are leaving her. When I call her she remembers me and my youngest sister who lives nearby, but she cannot remember our middle sister or anybody else. She has forgotten almost everything. So she asks me to tell her the story about something from my own memory and I do. Then she remembers it. It is just like the movie "The Notebook" for her. That turned out to be a really great movie. I did not appreciate it at the time.

She often forgets about my father. So I tell her the story of how they met and got married and moved around and had kids. Then she remembers it.

I joke with her to tell my father in the next world that I missed growing old with him. He died young of heart disease. Fortunately I take after my mom with a very strong heart. My mom was a gymnastics athlete and my dad played college football. My sisters and I joke that we will probably inherit the Altzheimers that our mother is getting now. Appendicitis and gall bladder disease run on my mother's side of the family and I have had to have both of those organs surgically removed just like my mom.

So everything seems like genetics to me.

When I look in the mirror I see my father. He seemed like an old man at the time and now I am one too. It seems that my father loaned his body to me. I can't keep it. I have to give it up someday too.

My friend in Phoenix and I are both former military and we have both been prepared to die when the time comes. It is part of Infantry training. Normally the Catholic drill instructors are in charge of religion and spirituality. Catholicism has drilled Christ's teachings into me so I have tried to be a good Samaritan my whole life to be prepared for death when it arrives. My friend in Phoenix is the same. When we were kids our parents dragged us to mass together.

I think if you can stand and face God and tell Him you did your best, then there need be no fears. I do not have any idea how atheists or agnostics prepare themselves for death.

My friend said he is prepared and not worried no matter what happens.

 

[Eaglewings]

Your post, Mde. Mayor, made me think of my dying friend so I called him this morning.

For the first few minutes we talked about all the physical training we are each doing to get into shape for the big hike next month. Climbing to an elevation of 15,000 ft is no piece of cake and not a given even for two macho military veterans like us two.

So we alternate between bicycle riding, jogging, and hiking with our packs on almost every day. The best workouts come from hiking with the packs on. But this is his least favorite thing. He likes bike riding. But that's just aerobic -- it doesn't strengthen your muscles nor harden your feet.

Then we talked about the Phoenix serial killer who has been haunting that city for the past year. The killer appears to be Latino and he is stalking other Latinos and Negroes, no whites so far. He follows them home and then shoots them in their driveway when they get out of the car. You can't make this up. Everyone in Phoenix is on their guard now. The police are doing extra patrols in the neighborhood trying to find anything unusual or out of place -- cars or trucks that don't belong there.

Then finally we got onto the subject of his chemo plan. Actually radiation is next, starting after the hike. Chemo follows that. His wife and I both are furious that he does not start right away. But he wants to do our hike first.

I asked him how he is dealing with all of this, and he said he just figures it is unavoidable and just a matter of bad luck. I mentioned genetics, not luck, and he agreed. His mother is Italian and strong as a horse in her late 80's. No cancers of any kind. His father died of lung cancer presumably from chain smoking. But maybe the cancer runs in his father's side of the family. We talked about that. His older brother is healthy with no issues. He does not have any sisters. Small family. All extremely bright.

We all knew that 3 years ago when he had his prostate removed that it would be a five year window before we would know if the cancer was coming back. Now we know. It is heartbreaking.

But death stares at us all. None of us escapes death. It is just a matter of time for everyone.

My mom is in her late 80's too and strong as a horse, although her memories are leaving her. When I call her she remembers me and my youngest sister who lives nearby, but she cannot remember our middle sister or anybody else. She has forgotten almost everything. So she asks me to tell her the story about something from my own memory and I do. Then she remembers it. It is just like the movie "The Notebook" for her. That turned out to be a really great movie. I did not appreciate it at the time.

She often forgets about my father. So I tell her the story of how they met and got married and moved around and had kids. Then she remembers it.

I joke with her to tell my father in the next world that I missed growing old with him. He died young of heart disease. Fortunately I take after my mom with a very strong heart. My mom was a gymnastics athlete and my dad played college football. My sisters and I joke that we will probably inherit the Altzheimers that our mother is getting now. Appendicitis and gall bladder disease run on my mother's side of the family and I have had to have both of those organs surgically removed just like my mom.

So everything seems like genetics to me.

When I look in the mirror I see my father. He seemed like an old man at the time and now I am one too. It seems that my father loaned his body to me. I can't keep it. I have to give it up someday too.

My friend in Phoenix and I are both former military and we have both been prepared to die when the time comes. It is part of Infantry training. Normally the Catholic drill instructors are in charge of religion and spirituality. Catholicism has drilled Christ's teachings into me so I have tried to be a good Samaritan my whole life to be prepared for death when it arrives. My friend in Phoenix is the same. When we were kids our parents dragged us to mass together.

I think if you can stand and face God and tell Him you did your best, then there need be no fears. I do not have any idea how atheists or agnostics prepare themselves for death.

My friend said he is prepared and not worried no matter what happens.

What a lovely touching post, I am glad that it came upon you to call him... Many of my friends don't call because they don't know what to say. I understand and just keep up on facebook.

I seriously want you to encourage him to look into this immunology, It is working . I wanted to do it but you have to be Metastatic to be in a trial like your friend.

Facebook manager donated millions for the trials..UCSF in San Francisco , Stanford also does the trails and many hospitals across the country..

It makes the body fight back, and is not only working but it is not hard to go through like chemo. Please look into this ..Prostate Cancer

I went through 6 weeks of radiation, it wasn't as hard as the chemo. And I used a special hand made lotion weeks before and during. I can give you her address

I don't want to sound like a now it all, I just have been researching for 4 1/2 years with my first diagnosis.

A wonderful man owner of a health food store is a survivor, he talked to me for 2 hours. We have so many estrogen's in our food, and environment...too many estrogen's you get cancer.

I gave my boys organic milk growing up thinking it was so good.. They give the cows drugs to pump up their milk, they are pregnant ... our milk is full of estogens. Don't get into a hot car without airing it out first..plastic = estrogen's.

You can't be paranoid, but knowledge is everything.

I was told by my oncologist that we have a predisposition to get cancer but our environment ect. is slamming us with cancer.
Cancer doesn't care who you are.

My good friend who we drove each others children to school for years got the exact cancer as me , and she is a marathon runner.

Look at what is put into our hair wash, body soap dish soap, lotions convenient foods are horrible.

What you and your friend are doing is getting his body and mind strong for a big fight, many people live past what the doctors say.. He has a strong body, and you are a wonderful friend.

Which war did you fight in?

I really want to encourage you to have your friend look into the link I gave you, like I said it is working.

I have several friends that I met in the chemo rooms, several have died..1 was told that her body is shutting down..

Smoking like you said, alcoholism basically anything that breaks down our immune system.

I think in the next few years they will confirm that the cancer treatment will be the immunology shots not chemo.

But the medical world makes too much money on us.

The drug company for a chemo drug is getting sued for knowing but not telling women that there is a high risk to stay bald for life..there was another chemo just as good they hid it and we didn't make that choice

I got that chemo last year and I have a lawsuit if I want to, I am praying about it now. I am not bald but I have thinning bald areas, and my hair is funky. This is a big deal for women..

I agree I have no idea how atheist people die , Some people in addiction recovery choose a doorknob as their higher power . I haven't seen many have long term recovery.

You sound like a awesome son.

.

 

[yiostheoy]

We joked about the baldness issue too on the phone.. He has a full head of hair, as do I, which is lucky for both of us.

His hair has gone white as snow like the Pope. Mine is just salt and pepper grey even though he is only 1 year older.

He is willing to lose all his hair. His wife is happy to see it go too.

We are all hoping against hope that he will make it through.

Herodotus tells us that the ancient Egyptians had a lice problem and so they shaved their heads and wore wigs which they are the historical inventors of.

For women I believe wigs are the perfect answer.

For men, God created a few perfect heads, the rest he covered with hair.

Today was the first time we actually spoke on the phone about the cancer issue.

All our other correspondence since he found out about the return of the cancer has been by emails.

He said the same as you -- that everyone is afraid to talk to him about it.

His wife was sitting nearby this morning as we spoke on the phone.

This is hard on every one of us.

It is hard on those who are dying as well as on those who are to be the survivors.

In the movie "Blade Runner" Rudger Hauer says:

"I have seen starships on fire at the belt of Orion. When I am gone all those memories will be lost." I suppose this is the atheist/agnostic view.

Philosophers argue however that we are immortal and there are 4 classic proofs of God given to us by Aristotle and by San Tomas Aquinas (a Catholic saint and philosopher -- the father of all Catholic philosophy).

Christians of all denominations whether Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, or Protestant have faith that Jesus is Lord and has risen from death with healing in his wings.

I never appreciated religion as a kid. But when you get old things change for you.

I do remember the Catholic drill instructor, who was a Puerto Rican giant from NYC whom we all respected and feared more than our enemy, tell us, "say your prayers candidates -- in this game of warfare you can easily get killed." If he is still alive then he is in his late 80's by now too same as my mom.

 

[Eaglewings]

We joked about the baldness issue too on the phone.. He has a full head of hair, as do I, which is lucky for both of us.

His hair has gone white as snow like the Pope. Mine is just salt and pepper grey even though he is only 1 year older.

He is willing to lose all his hair. His wife is happy to see it go too.

We are all hoping against hope that he will make it through.

Herodotus tells us that the ancient Egyptians had a lice problem and so they shaved their heads and wore wigs which they are the historical inventors of.

For women I believe wigs are the perfect answer.

For men, God created a few perfect heads, the rest he covered with hair.

Today was the first time we actually spoke on the phone about the cancer issue.

All our other correspondence since he found out about the return of the cancer has been by emails.

He said the same as you -- that everyone is afraid to talk to him about it.

His wife was sitting nearby this morning as we spoke on the phone.

This is hard on every one of us.

It is hard on those who are dying as well as on those who are to be the survivors.

In the movie "Blade Runner" Rudger Hauer says:

"I have seen starships on fire at the belt of Orion. When I am gone all those memories will be lost." I suppose this is the atheist/agnostic view.

Philosophers argue however that we are immortal and there are 4 classic proofs of God given to us by Aristotle and by San Tomas Aquinas (a Catholic saint and philosopher -- the father of all Catholic philosophy).

Christians of all denominations whether Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, or Protestant have faith that Jesus is Lord and has risen from death with healing in his wings.

I never appreciated religion as a kid. But when you get old things change for you.

I do remember the Catholic drill instructor, who was a Puerto Rican giant from NYC whom we all respected and feared more than our enemy, tell us, "say your prayers candidates -- in this game of warfare you can easily get killed." If he is still alive then he is in his late 80's by now too same as my mom.

Some women wear wigs, I hate them itchy and hot..blah same with my girlfriend.

He is going to loose his eye lashes and eyebrows too, but they will all grow back.

No worries, he is going to make it out of the chemo just fine.

In my opinion the ones who don't do well are the ones not making peace with it. I cried and cried both times and dug deep inside and found the strength from God. He sounds like he is has already made peace with it.

He is very strong too, the key is to not get sick from the flu.. find a cozy quiet place in his home away from everybody to read, watch TV and stay away from germs.

Sleep is messed with from the steriods...I hate steriods . The stronger he goes in , like your 2 are planning the better he will get through the chemo. They give you ambien for that ( a sleep med.)

They gave me drugs to fight off stomach issues ... throwing up ect.. I didn't get sick

I can not believe fighting in a war like the 2 of you, or even being in the military not having faith. The comparison that you make between the military and fighting cancer is a perfect one.

The drill instructor sounds like a good teacher/leader. To be like that instead of a jerk , I think goes deeper in understanding.

I went through major 4 surgeries, chemo x 2 and radiation and I am still here to talk with you. Sometimes I go back through my message to correct mistakes, and it looks like my brain just goes somewhere for a second or two ..lol..

Your friend sounds like he has a good attitude , its ok you be in the dumps to feel it, as long as we don't stay there..

I just pulled myself out of a couple month funk a week ago, you feel like your life is over at times..I never thought we would get old..lol. But then again having the blessings of living to our age is awesome too..its the little ones that make it sad. I think the kids get the chemo in the hospital away from the adults.

I think being real with him like you are is good, those that try to make it better like get over it and move on don't understand. Telling him that he is a strong fighter is good.

Maybe for fun buy him a cozy warm hat for him to wear, he will be loosing his hair when it is cold outside.

The night I found out that I had to do chemo , I was very upset. I wake up the next day with a feeling of peace knowing if my awesome God loving neighbor who was only 22 can go through it so graciously so can I. It seemed to stay with me though out the journey.

I feel if Jesus can die a horrible painful death for us, He understands our pain and it doesn't make it so hard on that topic. but we still go through the emotions, just like grief.

You are right on about loved ones watching the sick go through it is as hard or even harder to go through, because you can't fix it.
My husband is a fixer, and its hard for him to deal with it. When your sick you sorta stay on hold healing or fighting while our loved ones are still on the full forward mode of life which is where you are.. but your also being compassionate about what he is going through.

Do you live far from each other..?

 

[yiostheoy]

I am more comfortable with the philosophical concepts of Deism than Theism.

The main difference is in Deism we have been created by a God but are then left on our own to fend for ourselves.

In Theism there is professed interaction with the God and some kind of overwatch. I have never been big on that kind of belief.

The only two rituals I allow myself are Jesuit fasting from Holy Thursday to Easter Sunday with mass.

And also the Christmas mass on Dec 24th.

C.E.O. -- Christmas & Easter Only.

By Christmas I am ready for mass again.

By Easter I am grateful for the Christian religion and it's rules and requirements.

I love the story about the good Samaritan. There is no more powerful story in all the holy books of all the world. That's what I try to be.

My neighbors even call me that so I guess it is working.

I love people and animals and the Earth.

I hate liars and lies.

I hate brainwashing and bullsh!t.

I hate the far right fringe and the far left fringe too.

 

[Eaglewings]

I am more comfortable with the philosophical concepts of Deism than Theism.

The main difference is in Deism we have been created by a God but are then left on our own to fend for ourselves.

In Theism there is professed interaction with the God and some kind of overwatch. I have never been big on that kind of belief.

The only two rituals I allow myself are Jesuit fasting from Holy Thursday to Easter Sunday with mass.

And also the Christmas mass on Dec 24th.

C.E.O. -- Christmas & Easter Only.

By Christmas I am ready for mass again.

By Easter I am grateful for the Christian religion and it's rules and requirements.

I love the story about the good Samaritan. There is no more powerful story in all the holy books of all the world. That's what I try to be.

My neighbors even call me that so I guess it is working.

I love people and animals and the Earth.

I hate liars and lies.

I hate brainwashing and bullsh!t.

I hate the far right fringe and the far left fringe too.

Interesting, are you a Jesuit? I once went to visit a Jusuit on a weekly basis for a while, he was helping me through some stuff and gave me some awesome tool.

He told me this story and sticks with me like the Good Samaritan does for you.

He told me once he was at a Jusuit conference with 1000 of men all full of themselves as the holiest of holy. There were homeless men out on the stairs kissing their feet while entering.
This Jusuit said...Jesus wasn't up hanging with all of the Jusuit's He was out with the homeless ..I found his humbleness to be so awesome , his words stayed with me.

I also love the prodigal son story told by Jesus...It was a big deal back then to run away a squander his inheritance and the father welcomes him back with love.
I feel it is a parable to explain how God loves us no matter what.

I often wonder why God allows things to suffer, my sister reminds me that we are from a fallen world. He doesn't makes things happen , He has given a way to fight through the journey of our pain.. It makes sense to me.

I sometimes wake up in so much sadness for how some people can torture another human or animal. I do what I can and then pray and give it to God, it is out of my control . I can't run and save everything . But I can do my part.

I actually tried to make church yesterday, but didn't sleep well so I am going to try and go to my friends bible study this week.
I agree about not having to be part of a congregation everyday, like you. God is with us 24/7 .

My husband is catholic and I had my boys christianed out of respect for his father. We had to find a priest who would do it since I am not catholic . I had to take a class and my husband was holding his breath waiting for me to ask why this and why that and get kicked out..lol..
I am respectful at his families events .

I am more of a middle ground christian and a middle ground political viewer like you. I get angry when certain political groups high-jack a certain group of christian's.

Blessing to you today~

 

[yiostheoy]

It's ok to marry Catholic even if you are not Catholic as long as you raise your kids Catholic.

Same rule as Jews have.