Magical times where Pro-Life and Anti-abortion efforts intersect

[Dana7360]

Thanks for being such a great foil again.

The law matters more than your fucked up opinions. Or mine too, as far as that goes and the LAW does not require human beings to have fully functioning brains in order for them to be recognized as persons.

But hey' thanks for being honest with your "opinions." No surprises there.

Curses, foiled again!

I think you're right, the LAW does not require human beings to have fully functioning brains in order for them to be recognized as persons, however the law recognizes that when the brain no longer functions, your organs can be harvested.

The law says if your brain isn't functioning machines can be turned off and removed.

The law says if your brain isn't functioning you're brain dead. You're no longer legally alive and don't have to be kept alive with machines.

It happens everyday all over the world millions of times a day.

 

[Dana7360]

. . .however the law recognizes that when the brain no longer functions, your organs can be harvested.

Conditionally, that is.

Correct?

According to the Constitution, should doctors be able to remove the organs of a patient that has even half the prognosis for continued life and development that a typical child in the womb has?

Again it comes down to, not what it is but what it could be.

Right and what "it" is, is a human child.

Even our nations fetal HOMICIDE laws define and recognize them as such.

So much so, that those laws have to (for now) make exceptions to themselves to keep them from being used to prosecute legal(sic) abortions.

Which begs this question: Is it Constitutional for the Government to recognize a Human Being as a Person in one Situation but Deny their Personhood in all other Situations?

Laws are made by men, not the other way round. Since abortion is not in the Constitution only SCOTUS can answer your question. The court has changed dramatically so you may get the result you want but there are no guarantees. The court has previously decided that sometimes a human being is a person and sometimes not, or only 3/5 of one.

Abortion isn't in the constitution but the right to privacy with our body is.

We also have very strict privacy laws with our medical records.

Roe V. Wade was ruled on the right to privacy with our body. It means that the government has no right to invade our body and tell us what we can or can't do with our body.

Our medial privacy laws clearly say that no one has the right to see our medical records unless we the patient allows it in writing. The only way anyone can see our medical records is if we allow it or a warrant is issued by a court.

I would point out that the constitution doesn't say abortion is illegal and no woman can terminate a pregnancy.

 

[Dana7360]

Yeah. Like this ban is going to save PPE. More lies from abbot and company. Of course this bitch would try to take advantage of an emergency.

I just read some of the CA5 decision this morning. It was slow coming over on the internet. These two morons completely skipped over the issue of time-sensitivity.

Now they are going sending hundreds of people on long-distance road trips to free states during a pandemic when they are supposed to stay home. The alternative is a rise in late-term abortions. The clinics in New Mexico will have to work overtime due to the influx of patients from Texas.

The only funny thing in this is that the majority decision approved the right of state governments to shut down religious services during emergencies, regardless of Constitutional rights, so these jackasses who insist on holding them because of their First Amendment rights and babble about "freedom" have just lost their argument in the states subject to CA5.

Dayum! Now women are really gonna have to go the “extra mile” in effort to murder their child, and remove from themselves the consequence of bad decisions... How sad...

No they won't.

What you don't know is that we women have been working for decades to protect ourselves from people like you and the OP.

We have established organizations that all they do is help women get an abortion. They pay for the abortion, any and all medical, travel, lodging and food expenses is also paid.

I've been donating to those organizations for decades. They are non profit so I deduct every penny I donate off my taxes smiling knowing that your tax dollars are paying for all of it.

So you can have your fantasies that women can't have an abortion if they need one but you're only fooling yourself.

 

[Vastator]

Yeah. Like this ban is going to save PPE. More lies from abbot and company. Of course this bitch would try to take advantage of an emergency.

I just read some of the CA5 decision this morning. It was slow coming over on the internet. These two morons completely skipped over the issue of time-sensitivity.

Now they are going sending hundreds of people on long-distance road trips to free states during a pandemic when they are supposed to stay home. The alternative is a rise in late-term abortions. The clinics in New Mexico will have to work overtime due to the influx of patients from Texas.

The only funny thing in this is that the majority decision approved the right of state governments to shut down religious services during emergencies, regardless of Constitutional rights, so these jackasses who insist on holding them because of their First Amendment rights and babble about "freedom" have just lost their argument in the states subject to CA5.

Dayum! Now women are really gonna have to go the “extra mile” in effort to murder their child, and remove from themselves the consequence of bad decisions... How sad...

No they won't.

What you don't know is that we women have been working for decades to protect ourselves from people like you and the OP.

We have established organizations that all they do is help women get an abortion. They pay for the abortion, any and all medical, travel, lodging and food expenses is also paid.

I've been donating to those organizations for decades. They are non profit so I deduct every penny I donate off my taxes smiling knowing that your tax dollars are paying for all of it.

So you can have your fantasies that women can't have an abortion if they need one but you're only fooling yourself.

Cool story...

 

[satrebil]

Since abortions are on pause due to COVID-19, if we take look at number of abortions performed in US per day, some ~1700, COVID-19 is actually saving lives.

Not all abortions are stopped because of this virus.

Only in a few states.

Abortion has not been stopped in my state. My state allows all medical business to stay open during this crisis. It's essential according to the governor of my state.

So no, the virus isn't saving lives.

It's killing people.

For people who claim to be pro life, you show you aren't when you people scream that closing churches is illegal and unconstitutional then pack that church with people on Sunday.

Kansas is up to 4 virus clusters resulting from people going to church so far. How many more? We will find out in about a week or so.

How many will die? How is that pro life? It's not. It's what anti abortion people honestly are. They are pro death.

People are attending those churches by CHOICE, brainlet. Nice strawman attempt.

 

[satrebil]

Thanks for being such a great foil again.

The law matters more than your fucked up opinions. Or mine too, as far as that goes and the LAW does not require human beings to have fully functioning brains in order for them to be recognized as persons.

But hey' thanks for being honest with your "opinions." No surprises there.

Curses, foiled again!

I think you're right, the LAW does not require human beings to have fully functioning brains in order for them to be recognized as persons, however the law recognizes that when the brain no longer functions, your organs can be harvested.

The law says if your brain isn't functioning machines can be turned off and removed.

The law says if your brain isn't functioning you're brain dead. You're no longer legally alive and don't have to be kept alive with machines.

It happens everyday all over the world millions of times a day.

Wrong. The law says if you're brain isn't functioning AND there's no hope of recovery based upon sound medical reasoning.

Baby killer.

 

[satrebil]

Yeah. Like this ban is going to save PPE. More lies from abbot and company. Of course this bitch would try to take advantage of an emergency.

I just read some of the CA5 decision this morning. It was slow coming over on the internet. These two morons completely skipped over the issue of time-sensitivity.

Now they are going sending hundreds of people on long-distance road trips to free states during a pandemic when they are supposed to stay home. The alternative is a rise in late-term abortions. The clinics in New Mexico will have to work overtime due to the influx of patients from Texas.

The only funny thing in this is that the majority decision approved the right of state governments to shut down religious services during emergencies, regardless of Constitutional rights, so these jackasses who insist on holding them because of their First Amendment rights and babble about "freedom" have just lost their argument in the states subject to CA5.

Dayum! Now women are really gonna have to go the “extra mile” in effort to murder their child, and remove from themselves the consequence of bad decisions... How sad...

No they won't.

What you don't know is that we women have been working for decades to protect ourselves from people like you and the OP.

We have established organizations that all they do is help women get an abortion. They pay for the abortion, any and all medical, travel, lodging and food expenses is also paid.

I've been donating to those organizations for decades. They are non profit so I deduct every penny I donate off my taxes smiling knowing that your tax dollars are paying for all of it.

So you can have your fantasies that women can't have an abortion if they need one but you're only fooling yourself.

"We women have secret organizations that enable us to facilitate the killing of our own offspring."

So stunning, so brave.

 

[Dana7360]

Yeah. Like this ban is going to save PPE. More lies from abbot and company. Of course this bitch would try to take advantage of an emergency.

I just read some of the CA5 decision this morning. It was slow coming over on the internet. These two morons completely skipped over the issue of time-sensitivity.

Now they are going sending hundreds of people on long-distance road trips to free states during a pandemic when they are supposed to stay home. The alternative is a rise in late-term abortions. The clinics in New Mexico will have to work overtime due to the influx of patients from Texas.

The only funny thing in this is that the majority decision approved the right of state governments to shut down religious services during emergencies, regardless of Constitutional rights, so these jackasses who insist on holding them because of their First Amendment rights and babble about "freedom" have just lost their argument in the states subject to CA5.

Dayum! Now women are really gonna have to go the “extra mile” in effort to murder their child, and remove from themselves the consequence of bad decisions... How sad...

No they won't.

What you don't know is that we women have been working for decades to protect ourselves from people like you and the OP.

We have established organizations that all they do is help women get an abortion. They pay for the abortion, any and all medical, travel, lodging and food expenses is also paid.

I've been donating to those organizations for decades. They are non profit so I deduct every penny I donate off my taxes smiling knowing that your tax dollars are paying for all of it.

So you can have your fantasies that women can't have an abortion if they need one but you're only fooling yourself.

Cool story...

Cool reality.

 

[Dana7360]

Since abortions are on pause due to COVID-19, if we take look at number of abortions performed in US per day, some ~1700, COVID-19 is actually saving lives.

Not all abortions are stopped because of this virus.

Only in a few states.

Abortion has not been stopped in my state. My state allows all medical business to stay open during this crisis. It's essential according to the governor of my state.

So no, the virus isn't saving lives.

It's killing people.

For people who claim to be pro life, you show you aren't when you people scream that closing churches is illegal and unconstitutional then pack that church with people on Sunday.

Kansas is up to 4 virus clusters resulting from people going to church so far. How many more? We will find out in about a week or so.

How many will die? How is that pro life? It's not. It's what anti abortion people honestly are. They are pro death.

People are attending those churches by CHOICE, brainlet. Nice strawman attempt.

However the people they infect and kill away from church didn't choose it.

The woman chose the abortion. No one is forced by law to have an abortion.

Try again.

You people just love death. As long as it's a living, breathing human being.

If it's a clump of cells, you will threaten prison or even death to anyone who wants to make a choice you don't like.

You aren't pro life. You're anti abortion and very pro death.

 

[satrebil]

Since abortions are on pause due to COVID-19, if we take look at number of abortions performed in US per day, some ~1700, COVID-19 is actually saving lives.

Not all abortions are stopped because of this virus.

Only in a few states.

Abortion has not been stopped in my state. My state allows all medical business to stay open during this crisis. It's essential according to the governor of my state.

So no, the virus isn't saving lives.

It's killing people.

For people who claim to be pro life, you show you aren't when you people scream that closing churches is illegal and unconstitutional then pack that church with people on Sunday.

Kansas is up to 4 virus clusters resulting from people going to church so far. How many more? We will find out in about a week or so.

How many will die? How is that pro life? It's not. It's what anti abortion people honestly are. They are pro death.

People are attending those churches by CHOICE, brainlet. Nice strawman attempt.

However the people they infect and kill away from church didn't choose it.

The woman chose the abortion. No one is forced by law to have an abortion.

Try again.

You people just love death. As long as it's a living, breathing human being.

If it's a clump of cells, you will threaten prison or even death to anyone who wants to make a choice you don't like.

You aren't pro life. You're anti abortion and very pro death.

Let me know when the child gets a choice, baby killer.

 

[Vastator]

Since abortions are on pause due to COVID-19, if we take look at number of abortions performed in US per day, some ~1700, COVID-19 is actually saving lives.

Not all abortions are stopped because of this virus.

Only in a few states.

Abortion has not been stopped in my state. My state allows all medical business to stay open during this crisis. It's essential according to the governor of my state.

So no, the virus isn't saving lives.

It's killing people.

For people who claim to be pro life, you show you aren't when you people scream that closing churches is illegal and unconstitutional then pack that church with people on Sunday.

Kansas is up to 4 virus clusters resulting from people going to church so far. How many more? We will find out in about a week or so.

How many will die? How is that pro life? It's not. It's what anti abortion people honestly are. They are pro death.

People are attending those churches by CHOICE, brainlet. Nice strawman attempt.

However the people they infect and kill away from church didn't choose it.

The woman chose the abortion. No one is forced by law to have an abortion.

Try again.

You people just love death. As long as it's a living, breathing human being.

If it's a clump of cells, you will threaten prison or even death to anyone who wants to make a choice you don't like.

You aren't pro life. You're anti abortion and very pro death.

The child, abortionists kill, chose it? Cool story...

 

[Lysistrata]

Since abortions are on pause due to COVID-19, if we take look at number of abortions performed in US per day, some ~1700, COVID-19 is actually saving lives.

Not all abortions are stopped because of this virus.

Only in a few states.

Abortion has not been stopped in my state. My state allows all medical business to stay open during this crisis. It's essential according to the governor of my state.

So no, the virus isn't saving lives.

It's killing people.

For people who claim to be pro life, you show you aren't when you people scream that closing churches is illegal and unconstitutional then pack that church with people on Sunday.

Kansas is up to 4 virus clusters resulting from people going to church so far. How many more? We will find out in about a week or so.

How many will die? How is that pro life? It's not. It's what anti abortion people honestly are. They are pro death.

People are attending those churches by CHOICE, brainlet. Nice strawman attempt.

What is to stop them from spreading the virus to others in stores and other public places? One of these idiots who was interviewed in her car at one church said that she was going to Walmart and Home Depot, but she didn't care one bit.

 

[Chuz Life]

Alas, 'persons' is not defined so who or what is included is debatable.

Okay, so Keeping the "ALL" inclusive principle that IS clearly stated in the Constitution, let's debate what a "person" is.

The legal definition of a "natural person" is "a human being."

Do you disagree with or have a problem with that legal definition?

I have no reason to doubt you since I have no idea what the legal definition(s) is or are, I only know what mine is. Simply stated, all persons are human beings but not all human beings are persons.

I'll leave your question for people who know the law and Constitution better than I do. I will note that, as I understand the law, the SCOTUS has already decided that not every 'person' is guaranteed rights under the Constitution, including the right to life.

Is the Supreme Court Infallible?

Don't you have a right to not only disagree with the SCOTUS but to also speak freely about where or why they are wrong?

The answer to the second question is yes, you have a right to disagree and even an obligation to speak out.

Fallibility is less obvious since they are interpreting the Constitution and, since interpretations are essentially opinions and not factual, they are neither right nor wrong. You and I hold different values but I'd never say you are wrong, only that I disagree.

Cop


Out.

I'd never say you are wrong, only that I disagree. You are entitled your opinions as am I. Sorry you don't like them but the problem may lie with you and not with me.

Another copout.

Got anything else?

I have no problem with you having a different opinion.

However, when you won't even acknowledge a fact or engage in an actual conversation on something like a legal definition? You have the problem. Not me.

What are you looking for, a legal definition, my personal definition, or what I'd want to see as the legal definition?

The ONLY thing that matters, until you (me or others) are able to change it, are the legal definitions that we already have. There are more than one and they should all be considered together.

Do you have a problem with that?

 

[Chuz Life]

The law says if your brain isn't functioning machines can be turned off and removed.

The law says if your brain isn't functioning you're brain dead. You're no longer legally alive and don't have to be kept alive with machines.

It happens everyday all over the world millions of times a day.

The laws regarding end of life decisions are way more complex than you have just summarized. I have been involved in those kinds of decision four times now, in my life. My first wife nearly dying with my very preemie daughter, during her pregnancy. My stepmother (brain tumor), My Father (Lung Cancer) and my wife (Sudden Cardiac Arrest). . . But do go on and pretend that you can educate ME on the subject. I can use the fucking laugh.

 

[satrebil]

Since abortions are on pause due to COVID-19, if we take look at number of abortions performed in US per day, some ~1700, COVID-19 is actually saving lives.

Not all abortions are stopped because of this virus.

Only in a few states.

Abortion has not been stopped in my state. My state allows all medical business to stay open during this crisis. It's essential according to the governor of my state.

So no, the virus isn't saving lives.

It's killing people.

For people who claim to be pro life, you show you aren't when you people scream that closing churches is illegal and unconstitutional then pack that church with people on Sunday.

Kansas is up to 4 virus clusters resulting from people going to church so far. How many more? We will find out in about a week or so.

How many will die? How is that pro life? It's not. It's what anti abortion people honestly are. They are pro death.

People are attending those churches by CHOICE, brainlet. Nice strawman attempt.

What is to stop them from spreading the virus to others in stores and other public places? One of these idiots who was interviewed in her car at one church said that she was going to Walmart and Home Depot, but she didn't care one bit.

What is to stop anyone from spreading any virus at any time?

 

[Ame®icano]

Since abortions are on pause due to COVID-19, if we take look at number of abortions performed in US per day, some ~1700, COVID-19 is actually saving lives.

Not all abortions are stopped because of this virus.

Only in a few states.

Abortion has not been stopped in my state. My state allows all medical business to stay open during this crisis. It's essential according to the governor of my state.

So no, the virus isn't saving lives.

It's killing people.

For people who claim to be pro life, you show you aren't when you people scream that closing churches is illegal and unconstitutional then pack that church with people on Sunday.

Kansas is up to 4 virus clusters resulting from people going to church so far. How many more? We will find out in about a week or so.

How many will die? How is that pro life? It's not. It's what anti abortion people honestly are. They are pro death.

People are attending those churches by CHOICE, brainlet. Nice strawman attempt.

What is to stop them from spreading the virus to others in stores and other public places? One of these idiots who was interviewed in her car at one church said that she was going to Walmart and Home Depot, but she didn't care one bit.

What is to stop anyone from spreading any virus at any time?

Those know to be infected should be quarantined. The rest of us, increase your hygiene, wear the mask, gloves and distance from others.

 

[alang1216]

The ONLY thing that matters, until you (me or others) are able to change it, are the legal definitions that we already have. There are more than one and they should all be considered together.

Do you have a problem with that?

The only problem I have is that there are no real legal definitions of what constitutes a 'person', certainly none in the Constitution, only interpretations. We assign rights to people based on their age and these rights change throughout ones life. We have an arbitrary age of adulthood, when you can sign a contract for instance, and it is different in most places from when you can drink. These rights can differ by state too. One person, changing rights.

 

[Chuz Life]

The ONLY thing that matters, until you (me or others) are able to change it, are the legal definitions that we already have. There are more than one and they should all be considered together.

Do you have a problem with that?

The only problem I have is that there are no real legal definitions of what constitutes a 'person', certainly none in the Constitution, only interpretations. We assign rights to people based on their age and these rights change throughout ones life. We have an arbitrary age of adulthood, when you can sign a contract for instance, and it is different in most places from when you can drink. These rights can differ by state too. One person, changing rights.

We have legal definitions in the LAW (US CODE) and we also have legal Dictionaries. Both are sources that are available on line.

You seem to think that I feel the definitions need to be changed.

I don't.

The definitions as written, are already inclusive enough to recognize "children in the womb" for the human beings /natural persons they biologically ARE. So much so, that our nations fetal homicide laws have to make exceptions to themselves to try to keep abortions legal.

 

[alang1216]

We have legal definitions in the LAW (US CODE) and we also have legal Dictionaries. Both are sources that are available on line.

You seem to think that I feel the definitions need to be changed.

I don't.

The definitions as written, are already inclusive enough to recognize "children in the womb" for the human beings /natural persons they biologically ARE. So much so, that our nations fetal homicide laws have to make exceptions to themselves to try to keep abortions legal.

Great news, problem solved.

I don't know about any Federal laws but I like the VA law that protects the fetus but grants an exception to the mother.

 

[Chuz Life]

We have legal definitions in the LAW (US CODE) and we also have legal Dictionaries. Both are sources that are available on line.

You seem to think that I feel the definitions need to be changed.

I don't.

The definitions as written, are already inclusive enough to recognize "children in the womb" for the human beings /natural persons they biologically ARE. So much so, that our nations fetal homicide laws have to make exceptions to themselves to try to keep abortions legal.

Great news, problem solved.

I don't know about any Federal laws but I like the VA law that protects the fetus but grants an exception to the mother.

What is the difference between a "fetus" and a "child" that is in the fetal stage of their development?