LSTU#4: Lies, Damned Lies, and Lies (Reprise)

[wjmacguffin]

I haven't seen any credible evidence of Trump's "lies" coming from the leftist media.

• Trump said Obama released 122 Gitmo fighters, but Obama released nine. The other 113 were released by Bush.
• Trump said he won the election in a landslide, but he lost the popular vote and his electoral college victory was slim.
• Trump said 81% of whites murdered are killed by blacks. That number is actually 15%.
• Trump said that Syrian Christians were not able to come to the US, but Syrian Christian refugees were being admitted.

Even FOX News anchor Shep Smith has called out Trump for lying, and FOX is not part of the leftist media.

So are you actually saying that Trump *hasn't* lied? Is this all a leftist conspiracy to you? That's fine if that's really your opinion, as you have every right to believe anything you want. I just find it surprising and incredulous.

Trump said Obama released 122 Gitmo fighters, but Obama released nine. The other 113 were released by Bush.

In 8 years Obama only released 9 prisoners from Gitmo?
Are you sure?

Actually, I had to correct myself because a poster here thankfully pointed out my error.

Trump said, of the 122 Gitmo releases that returned to terrorism, all 122 were released by Obama. That's the lie. 113 of those 122 were released by Bush.

 

[wjmacguffin]

One already covered
Yeah, he screwed up retweeting someone's false statistic tweet. He did not make up the statistic.
Trump distances himself from black murder stats: Retweets aren't endorsements
Your interpretation of electoral vote as being slim, seems you lied or misinterpret,
306-232
2016 Presidential Election Actual Results
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/12/19/us/elections/electoral-college-results.html
Christian Syrian refugees, he said-
Trump’s claim that it is ‘very tough’ for Christian Syrians to get to the United States
Did you lie or misinterpret?

Shep Smith is on the far left end of the spectrum.

I haven't seen any credible evidence of Trump's "lies" coming from the leftist media.

• Trump said Obama released 122 Gitmo fighters, but Obama released nine. The other 113 were released by Bush.
• Trump said he won the election in a landslide, but he lost the popular vote and his electoral college victory was slim.
• Trump said 81% of whites murdered are killed by blacks. That number is actually 15%.
• Trump said that Syrian Christians were not able to come to the US, but Syrian Christian refugees were being admitted.

Even FOX News anchor Shep Smith has called out Trump for lying, and FOX is not part of the leftist media.

So are you actually saying that Trump *hasn't* lied? Is this all a leftist conspiracy to you? That's fine if that's really your opinion, as you have every right to believe anything you want. I just find it surprising and incredulous.

Rather than get into a tit-for-tat over specifics (but I will if you really want that), do you think that Trump lies overall? Do you see what are called lies as merely spin, or do you think it's mostly a media-created problem and Trump really is truthful overall?

 

[AsianTrumpSupporter]

do you think that Trump lies overall? Do you see what are called lies as merely spin, or do you think it's mostly a media-created problem and Trump really is truthful overall?

I think Trump is one of the most truthful politicians to come along in a very long time, and I think the mainstream media's business is to spin and mislead. To paraphrase Denzel Washington, if you don't read the news, you're uninformed. If you do read the news, you're misinformed.

 

[esthermoon]

Liberal Seeks To Understand #4
I'll admit to being a liberal, so speak slowly and use small words please. Although I can get salty, here I'm just trying to understand conservatives' POV on issues. This is an honest question. As before, I'll return respect with respect and crudeness with crudeness.

What do conservatives feel about Trump lying?

No politician tells the truth all the time. That's a sad but accurate fact of life in politics, so I'm not saying Obama or Hillary are paragons of truth. They are not, especially Hillary.

But liberals are confused over why conservatives don't call out or complain about Trump's lies. To us, these aren't just spin or partisan arguments. For example, Trump's comments on Obama releasing 122 Gitmo fighters (when Obama only released nine), the non-existent Sweden terrorist attack, and his claim that crime rates are up when they're actually down are all easily proven incorrect. At least from my perspective, conservatives (especially Trump supporters) are quiet on these lies.

What am I missing here? Do you feel that Trump is telling the truth and these "lies" are distortions by the liberal media? Is there a "bigger picture" argument that Trump might get details wrong but he's still correct as a whole? Or what?

Again, I'm just trying to grok the other side so I can be less ignorant and more sympathetic. Cheers!

As you have already said no politician says always the truth
But you complain because some of his supporters don't notice his lies; maybe some of these lies are not lies at all.
For instance you said he talk about non existent terrorist attacks in Sweden but he didn't say that. I've seen some videos on YouTube they did show what Mr. Trump said: he talked about all the crimes committed by immigrants in Swedish towns.
Anyway supporters can't be impartial. If they were impartial they wouldn't be real supporters lol

Yeah, I hear you about supporters. But there's a big difference between support ("I think Hillary would make a great president") and blind support ("Hillary never lied!") Many liberal friends of mine see today's conservatives as having blind support for Trump. Sadly, several responses above fit that perfectly.

You're right wjmacguffin
Some people can't be "normal" supporters but look like rock band supporters

 

[Iceweasel]

Its the same thing the left did with Obama. And the right did with bush. And the left did with <insert anyone>
Its called being a partisan hack.
On lies, IMO, Trump has the quantity sold up. However, he lacks the quality.
IMO, if the left really gave a fuck about trumps lies, they wouldn't let the letter D lie to them every fucking day.
Disingenuous hackery.

Then let me paraphrase if I can to make sure I understand you. (And thanks for answering honestly without attacking me!)

You're saying that Trump's lies are tolerable because 1) everybody tolerates the lies from their side, and 2) Trump's might lie often but he doesn't make egregious lies. Is that correct?

Trump is a New Yorker and talks big. Libs parse his words and make hay of it and completely ignore the leftists lies that effect our daily lives. It's a question of values and priorities. That's why you can't understand the right.

 

[depotoo]

By, the way, he never said terrorist attack-
“You look at what’s happening in Germany. You look at what’s happening last night in Sweden. Sweden, who would believe this? Sweden. They took in large numbers. They’re having problems like they never thought possible.”

He needs to be more careful with his tweeting, but the media takes every little thing they can and calls it a lie, when they have chosen to take it out of context. And the left runs with it.

One already covered
Yeah, he screwed up retweeting someone's false statistic tweet. He did not make up the statistic.
Trump distances himself from black murder stats: Retweets aren't endorsements
Your interpretation of electoral vote as being slim, seems you lied or misinterpret,
306-232
2016 Presidential Election Actual Results
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/12/19/us/elections/electoral-college-results.html
Christian Syrian refugees, he said-
Trump’s claim that it is ‘very tough’ for Christian Syrians to get to the United States
Did you lie or misinterpret?

Shep Smith is on the far left end of the spectrum.

I haven't seen any credible evidence of Trump's "lies" coming from the leftist media.

• Trump said Obama released 122 Gitmo fighters, but Obama released nine. The other 113 were released by Bush.
• Trump said he won the election in a landslide, but he lost the popular vote and his electoral college victory was slim.
• Trump said 81% of whites murdered are killed by blacks. That number is actually 15%.
• Trump said that Syrian Christians were not able to come to the US, but Syrian Christian refugees were being admitted.

Even FOX News anchor Shep Smith has called out Trump for lying, and FOX is not part of the leftist media.

So are you actually saying that Trump *hasn't* lied? Is this all a leftist conspiracy to you? That's fine if that's really your opinion, as you have every right to believe anything you want. I just find it surprising and incredulous.

Rather than get into a tit-for-tat over specifics (but I will if you really want that), do you think that Trump lies overall? Do you see what are called lies as merely spin, or do you think it's mostly a media-created problem and Trump really is truthful overall?

 

[wjmacguffin]

By, the way, he never said terrorist attack-
“You look at what’s happening in Germany. You look at what’s happening last night in Sweden. Sweden, who would believe this? Sweden. They took in large numbers. They’re having problems like they never thought possible.”

He needs to be more careful with his tweeting, but the media takes every little thing they can and calls it a lie, when they have chosen to take it out of context. And the left runs with it.

One already covered
Yeah, he screwed up retweeting someone's false statistic tweet. He did not make up the statistic.
Trump distances himself from black murder stats: Retweets aren't endorsements
Your interpretation of electoral vote as being slim, seems you lied or misinterpret,
306-232
2016 Presidential Election Actual Results
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/12/19/us/elections/electoral-college-results.html
Christian Syrian refugees, he said-
Trump’s claim that it is ‘very tough’ for Christian Syrians to get to the United States
Did you lie or misinterpret?

Shep Smith is on the far left end of the spectrum.

I haven't seen any credible evidence of Trump's "lies" coming from the leftist media.

• Trump said Obama released 122 Gitmo fighters, but Obama released nine. The other 113 were released by Bush.
• Trump said he won the election in a landslide, but he lost the popular vote and his electoral college victory was slim.
• Trump said 81% of whites murdered are killed by blacks. That number is actually 15%.
• Trump said that Syrian Christians were not able to come to the US, but Syrian Christian refugees were being admitted.

Even FOX News anchor Shep Smith has called out Trump for lying, and FOX is not part of the leftist media.

So are you actually saying that Trump *hasn't* lied? Is this all a leftist conspiracy to you? That's fine if that's really your opinion, as you have every right to believe anything you want. I just find it surprising and incredulous.

Rather than get into a tit-for-tat over specifics (but I will if you really want that), do you think that Trump lies overall? Do you see what are called lies as merely spin, or do you think it's mostly a media-created problem and Trump really is truthful overall?

You know what? I forgot that, and you are correct. I think Trump implied terrorism, but I admit that's reading into this words and not what his actual words are.

 

[wjmacguffin]

do you think that Trump lies overall? Do you see what are called lies as merely spin, or do you think it's mostly a media-created problem and Trump really is truthful overall?

I think Trump is one of the most truthful politicians to come along in a very long time, and I think the mainstream media's business is to spin and mislead. To paraphrase Denzel Washington, if you don't read the news, you're uninformed. If you do read the news, you're misinformed.

Really? You think that Trump's was truthful (or the media distorted his words) in regards to:

• "122 vicious prisoners, released by the Obama Administration from Gitmo, have returned to the battlefield."
  
• "The murder rate in our country is the highest it’s been in 47 years."
• "If you were a Muslim, you could come in, if you were a Christian, it was impossible."
  
• "We had a massive landslide victory, as you know, in the Electoral College."
  
• "The @nytimes sent a letter to their subscribers apologizing for their BAD coverage of me."
  
• "I said, 'Nope, [steel for the pipeline] comes from the United States or we're not building one.'"
  
• "If Russia, or some other entity, was hacking, why did the White House wait so long to act? Why did they only complain after Hillary lost?"
• "I don't know anything about David Duke."
  
• "It is a disgrace that my full Cabinet is still not in place, the longest such delay in the history of our country."
  
• “The president of Mexico and myself have agreed to cancel our planned meeting scheduled for next week."

All of these have been proven false, and that's just a sample based on a few minutes of Google searches. Do you honestly believe Trump is "one of the most truthful politicians"?

 

[80zephyr]

I don't care what he says. I care about what he does. And from my perspective, he is succeeding. Nominating a conservative for the SCOTUS and clamping down on immigration is what I will always base my perception on.

Mark

 

[AsianTrumpSupporter]

do you think that Trump lies overall? Do you see what are called lies as merely spin, or do you think it's mostly a media-created problem and Trump really is truthful overall?

I think Trump is one of the most truthful politicians to come along in a very long time, and I think the mainstream media's business is to spin and mislead. To paraphrase Denzel Washington, if you don't read the news, you're uninformed. If you do read the news, you're misinformed.

Really? You think that Trump's was truthful (or the media distorted his words) in regards to:

• "122 vicious prisoners, released by the Obama Administration from Gitmo, have returned to the battlefield."
  
• "The murder rate in our country is the highest it’s been in 47 years."
• "If you were a Muslim, you could come in, if you were a Christian, it was impossible."
  
• "We had a massive landslide victory, as you know, in the Electoral College."
  
• "The @nytimes sent a letter to their subscribers apologizing for their BAD coverage of me."
  
• "I said, 'Nope, [steel for the pipeline] comes from the United States or we're not building one.'"
  
• "If Russia, or some other entity, was hacking, why did the White House wait so long to act? Why did they only complain after Hillary lost?"
• "I don't know anything about David Duke."
  
• "It is a disgrace that my full Cabinet is still not in place, the longest such delay in the history of our country."
  
• “The president of Mexico and myself have agreed to cancel our planned meeting scheduled for next week."

All of these have been proven false, and that's just a sample based on a few minutes of Google searches. Do you honestly believe Trump is "one of the most truthful politicians"?

They may have been "proven false" to your satisfaction, but not to mine.

 

[wjmacguffin]

I don't care what he says. I care about what he does. And from my perspective, he is succeeding. Nominating a conservative for the SCOTUS and clamping down on immigration is what I will always base my perception on.

Mark

To paraphrase (and please correct me if I'm wrong, I do not want to put words in your mouth), you're OK with Trump lying if he puts a conservative on the Supreme Court and tackles immigration?

 

[wjmacguffin]

do you think that Trump lies overall? Do you see what are called lies as merely spin, or do you think it's mostly a media-created problem and Trump really is truthful overall?

I think Trump is one of the most truthful politicians to come along in a very long time, and I think the mainstream media's business is to spin and mislead. To paraphrase Denzel Washington, if you don't read the news, you're uninformed. If you do read the news, you're misinformed.

Really? You think that Trump's was truthful (or the media distorted his words) in regards to:

• "122 vicious prisoners, released by the Obama Administration from Gitmo, have returned to the battlefield."
  
• "The murder rate in our country is the highest it’s been in 47 years."
• "If you were a Muslim, you could come in, if you were a Christian, it was impossible."
  
• "We had a massive landslide victory, as you know, in the Electoral College."
  
• "The @nytimes sent a letter to their subscribers apologizing for their BAD coverage of me."
  
• "I said, 'Nope, [steel for the pipeline] comes from the United States or we're not building one.'"
  
• "If Russia, or some other entity, was hacking, why did the White House wait so long to act? Why did they only complain after Hillary lost?"
• "I don't know anything about David Duke."
  
• "It is a disgrace that my full Cabinet is still not in place, the longest such delay in the history of our country."
  
• “The president of Mexico and myself have agreed to cancel our planned meeting scheduled for next week."

All of these have been proven false, and that's just a sample based on a few minutes of Google searches. Do you honestly believe Trump is "one of the most truthful politicians"?

They may have been "proven false" to your satisfaction, but not to mine.

Ok, I'll give one last response, as I feel like we're close to beating a dead horse.

All of the above is demonstrably false. As in, one's opinion doesn't matter because evidence exists proving they are false. I won't go through all, because who has time for that? But here are a few:

• "122 vicious prisoners, released by the Obama Administration from Gitmo, have returned to the battlefield." https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/FINAL - GTMO Unclass CDA Response - September 2016.pdf shows only 9 of those 122 were released by Obama.
  
• "The murder rate in our country is the highest it’s been in 47 years." FACT CHECK: U.S. Murder Rate Highest in 47 Years? The most recent stat for the US murder rate is 4.9%, a sharp increase from the year before. But that's not what Trump talked about. He said the murder rate is the highest. But that would have been 8.2% back in 1995.
  
• "We had a massive landslide victory, as you know, in the Electoral College." Trump won 57% of the electoral college votes. That puts him in the bottom 3rd of election wins. 8% above losing is not a landslide.

Seriously, how can you look at those numbers above and say they're not proven false? How can you believe 9 > 122, 4.9 > 8.2, and 57% = landslide? I'm honestly baffled here.

I mean, I *suppose* you could look at a statement like "If you were a Muslim, you could come in, if you were a Christian, it was impossible" and say, "Well, Trump didn't mean to say it was literally impossible, just that it's harder than it should be" or some other." It's still false, but I get why you would read into his statement to find a way out of the lie. But how can you do that with the numbers above?

 

[AsianTrumpSupporter]

I stand by what I said in that quote.

 

[80zephyr]

I don't care what he says. I care about what he does. And from my perspective, he is succeeding. Nominating a conservative for the SCOTUS and clamping down on immigration is what I will always base my perception on.

Mark

To paraphrase (and please correct me if I'm wrong, I do not want to put words in your mouth), you're OK with Trump lying if he puts a conservative on the Supreme Court and tackles immigration?

Yep. Words mean nothing, action does.

Mark

 

[nat4900]

We all remember the children's story about the boy who cried "wolf" as a prank, and that no one believed him when for once he was telling the truth.....

The same applies to the infantile Trump who spews lies on a daily basis and has taken our current government into an alternate reality that even when the LIE is obvious, his lap dogs simply "shrugs" and forgive him as an eccentric oddity.

Such conduct can (maybe) be tolerated from an entertainer, but it should not be tolerated by someone who has much power....by the title of the office....from a president impacting on all of our lives.

An occasion may soon arise when we need an adult in the oval office, and we will find a compulsive, and vindictive liar sitting behind that desk ......and none of us will be able to believe if he has any idea or enough brain cells to handle the emergency...or if he is again lying as usual.

 

[easyt65]

...it's that he kicked Hillary's ass, right, snowflake?!

 

[JakeStarkey]

He barely won, cuck.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Ever met an ER doctor ?

Often very arrogant...and total jerks.

But they are good at what they do.

If I ever need to go to the ER (a true emergency), I want an ER doctor like Trump....confident and willing to make a decision.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

We all remember the children's story about the boy who cried "wolf" as a prank, and that no one believed him when for once he was telling the truth.....

The same applies to the infantile Trump who spews lies on a daily basis and has taken our current government into an alternate reality that even when the LIE is obvious, his lap dogs simply "shrugs" and forgive him as an eccentric oddity.

Such conduct can (maybe) be tolerated from an entertainer, but it should not be tolerated by someone who has much power....by the title of the office....from a president impacting on all of our lives.

An occasion may soon arise when we need an adult in the oval office, and we will find a compulsive, and vindictive liar sitting behind that desk ......and none of us will be able to believe if he has any idea or enough brain cells to handle the emergency...or if he is again lying as usual.

Why is it that you can always manage to accuse Trump of lying, but can never seem to tell us what he is lying about?

I find that odd.

 

[nat4900]

I find that odd.

Well, that's because you probably often place your elbow over the toilet seat......

So, you don't think that Trump is a habitual liar? Interesting !!!