LSTU#4: Lies, Damned Lies, and Lies (Reprise)

[wjmacguffin]

Liberal Seeks To Understand #4
I'll admit to being a liberal, so speak slowly and use small words please. Although I can get salty, here I'm just trying to understand conservatives' POV on issues. This is an honest question. As before, I'll return respect with respect and crudeness with crudeness.

What do conservatives feel about Trump lying?

No politician tells the truth all the time. That's a sad but accurate fact of life in politics, so I'm not saying Obama or Hillary are paragons of truth. They are not, especially Hillary.

But liberals are confused over why conservatives don't call out or complain about Trump's lies. To us, these aren't just spin or partisan arguments. For example, Trump's comments on Obama releasing 122 Gitmo fighters (when Obama only released nine)***, the non-existent Sweden terrorist attack, and his claim that crime rates are up when they're actually down are all easily proven incorrect. At least from my perspective, conservatives (especially Trump supporters) are quiet on these lies.

What am I missing here? Do you feel that Trump is telling the truth and these "lies" are distortions by the liberal media? Is there a "bigger picture" argument that Trump might get details wrong but he's still correct as a whole? Or what?

Again, I'm just trying to grok the other side so I can be less ignorant and more sympathetic. Cheers!

*** EDIT: I misunderstood Trump's quote. He talked about 122 former Gitmo detainees returning to the battlefield are from Obama. However, this is still a lie, as Obama only released nine of those 122 returning fighters.

 

[Cellblock2429]

Liberal Seeks To Understand #4
I'll admit to being a liberal, so speak slowly and use small words please. Although I can get salty, here I'm just trying to understand conservatives' POV on issues. This is an honest question. As before, I'll return respect with respect and crudeness with crudeness.

What do conservatives feel about Trump lying?

No politician tells the truth all the time. That's a sad but accurate fact of life in politics, so I'm not saying Obama or Hillary are paragons of truth. They are not, especially Hillary.

But liberals are confused over why conservatives don't call out or complain about Trump's lies. To us, these aren't just spin or partisan arguments. For example, Trump's comments on Obama releasing 122 Gitmo fighters (when Obama only released nine), the non-existent Sweden terrorist attack, and his claim that crime rates are up when they're actually down are all easily proven incorrect. At least from my perspective, conservatives (especially Trump supporters) are quiet on these lies.

What am I missing here? Do you feel that Trump is telling the truth and these "lies" are distortions by the liberal media? Is there a "bigger picture" argument that Trump might get details wrong but he's still correct as a whole? Or what?

Again, I'm just trying to grok the other side so I can be less ignorant and more sympathetic. Cheers!

/---- I don't see Pres Trump lying. It depends on how you parse the numbers to defend Obozo: Obama Releases More Gitmo Detainees Despite an Estimated 30% Returning to Terrorism

 

[TNHarley]

Its the same thing the left did with Obama. And the right did with bush. And the left did with <insert anyone>
Its called being a partisan hack.
On lies, IMO, Trump has the quantity sold up. However, he lacks the quality.
IMO, if the left really gave a fuck about trumps lies, they wouldn't let the letter D lie to them every fucking day.
Disingenuous hackery.

 

[AsianTrumpSupporter]

The DNC doesn't get to lecture anyone about lying when they put up Hillary "public opinion & private opinion" Clinton as their candidate.

 

[wjmacguffin]

Its the same thing the left did with Obama. And the right did with bush. And the left did with <insert anyone>
Its called being a partisan hack.
On lies, IMO, Trump has the quantity sold up. However, he lacks the quality.
IMO, if the left really gave a fuck about trumps lies, they wouldn't let the letter D lie to them every fucking day.
Disingenuous hackery.

Then let me paraphrase if I can to make sure I understand you. (And thanks for answering honestly without attacking me!)

You're saying that Trump's lies are tolerable because 1) everybody tolerates the lies from their side, and 2) Trump's might lie often but he doesn't make egregious lies. Is that correct?

 

[wjmacguffin]

The DNC doesn't get to lecture anyone about lying when they put up Hillary "public opinion & private opinion" Clinton as their candidate.

You're very correct — but this isn't about the DNC or even liberals. As a Trump supporter, how do you feel about Trump's lies? Is he truthful but the media twists his words, is he lying but that's OK because he's a politician, or what?

 

[AsianTrumpSupporter]

I haven't seen any credible evidence of Trump's "lies" coming from the leftist media.

 

[TNHarley]

Its the same thing the left did with Obama. And the right did with bush. And the left did with <insert anyone>
Its called being a partisan hack.
On lies, IMO, Trump has the quantity sold up. However, he lacks the quality.
IMO, if the left really gave a fuck about trumps lies, they wouldn't let the letter D lie to them every fucking day.
Disingenuous hackery.

Then let me paraphrase if I can to make sure I understand you. (And thanks for answering honestly without attacking me!)

You're saying that Trump's lies are tolerable because 1) everybody tolerates the lies from their side, and 2) Trump's might lie often but he doesn't make egregious lies. Is that correct?

I didn't say his lies are tolerable.
1 and 2 are right.
His lies mostly just boost his ego. The rest is ignorance. He has yet to purposefully lie to get us into wars, lies about American death or lies so they can get control of 20% of our economy.
The right don't care he lies. Some even defend it, which makes them just as dishonest.
The left act likes they care but I don't think they really do. Dems lie every day, the media lies everyday. And they don't care about those lies unless it hurts their side.
Partisanship is a huge problem in our country.
The two sides cant even agree on FACTS

 

[esthermoon]

Liberal Seeks To Understand #4
I'll admit to being a liberal, so speak slowly and use small words please. Although I can get salty, here I'm just trying to understand conservatives' POV on issues. This is an honest question. As before, I'll return respect with respect and crudeness with crudeness.

What do conservatives feel about Trump lying?

No politician tells the truth all the time. That's a sad but accurate fact of life in politics, so I'm not saying Obama or Hillary are paragons of truth. They are not, especially Hillary.

But liberals are confused over why conservatives don't call out or complain about Trump's lies. To us, these aren't just spin or partisan arguments. For example, Trump's comments on Obama releasing 122 Gitmo fighters (when Obama only released nine), the non-existent Sweden terrorist attack, and his claim that crime rates are up when they're actually down are all easily proven incorrect. At least from my perspective, conservatives (especially Trump supporters) are quiet on these lies.

What am I missing here? Do you feel that Trump is telling the truth and these "lies" are distortions by the liberal media? Is there a "bigger picture" argument that Trump might get details wrong but he's still correct as a whole? Or what?

Again, I'm just trying to grok the other side so I can be less ignorant and more sympathetic. Cheers!

As you have already said no politician says always the truth
But you complain because some of his supporters don't notice his lies; maybe some of these lies are not lies at all.
For instance you said he talk about non existent terrorist attacks in Sweden but he didn't say that. I've seen some videos on YouTube they did show what Mr. Trump said: he talked about all the crimes committed by immigrants in Swedish towns.
Anyway supporters can't be impartial. If they were impartial they wouldn't be real supporters lol

 

[depotoo]

Non existent terrorist attack?!
Three men appear in court over 'gang rape live streamed on Facebook'
Report: Afghan Migrants Arrested in Facebook Live Rape Case
Releases from gitmo
Obama Releases More Gitmo Detainees Despite an Estimated 30% Returning to Terrorism
Prisoners: Who's Still Held? - Welcome to "Close Guantánamo"
196 of the 779 prisoners were released under President Obama, and although no prisoners were released for 15 months from January 2011,
Crime rate?
Chicago death toll driving up overall murder rate for country's biggest cities
Cheers!

Liberal Seeks To Understand #4
I'll admit to being a liberal, so speak slowly and use small words please. Although I can get salty, here I'm just trying to understand conservatives' POV on issues. This is an honest question. As before, I'll return respect with respect and crudeness with crudeness.

What do conservatives feel about Trump lying?

No politician tells the truth all the time. That's a sad but accurate fact of life in politics, so I'm not saying Obama or Hillary are paragons of truth. They are not, especially Hillary.

But liberals are confused over why conservatives don't call out or complain about Trump's lies. To us, these aren't just spin or partisan arguments. For example, Trump's comments on Obama releasing 122 Gitmo fighters (when Obama only released nine), the non-existent Sweden terrorist attack, and his claim that crime rates are up when they're actually down are all easily proven incorrect. At least from my perspective, conservatives (especially Trump supporters) are quiet on these lies.

What am I missing here? Do you feel that Trump is telling the truth and these "lies" are distortions by the liberal media? Is there a "bigger picture" argument that Trump might get details wrong but he's still correct as a whole? Or what?

Again, I'm just trying to grok the other side so I can be less ignorant and more sympathetic. Cheers!

 

[wjmacguffin]

I haven't seen any credible evidence of Trump's "lies" coming from the leftist media.

• Trump said Obama released 122 Gitmo fighters, but Obama released nine. The other 113 were released by Bush.
• Trump said he won the election in a landslide, but he lost the popular vote and his electoral college victory was slim.
• Trump said 81% of whites murdered are killed by blacks. That number is actually 15%.
• Trump said that Syrian Christians were not able to come to the US, but Syrian Christian refugees were being admitted.

Even FOX News anchor Shep Smith has called out Trump for lying, and FOX is not part of the leftist media.

So are you actually saying that Trump *hasn't* lied? Is this all a leftist conspiracy to you? That's fine if that's really your opinion, as you have every right to believe anything you want. I just find it surprising and incredulous.

 

[AsianTrumpSupporter]

I haven't seen any credible evidence of Trump's "lies" coming from the leftist media.

• Trump said Obama released 122 Gitmo fighters, but Obama released nine. The other 113 were released by Bush.
• Trump said he won the election in a landslide, but he lost the popular vote and his electoral college victory was slim.
• Trump said 81% of whites murdered are killed by blacks. That number is actually 15%.
• Trump said that Syrian Christians were not able to come to the US, but Syrian Christian refugees were being admitted.

Even FOX News anchor Shep Smith has called out Trump for lying, and FOX is not part of the leftist media.

So are you actually saying that Trump *hasn't* lied? Is this all a leftist conspiracy to you? That's fine if that's really your opinion, as you have every right to believe anything you want. I just find it surprising and incredulous.

No credible citations/sources, so not a credible post.

 

[wjmacguffin]

Liberal Seeks To Understand #4
I'll admit to being a liberal, so speak slowly and use small words please. Although I can get salty, here I'm just trying to understand conservatives' POV on issues. This is an honest question. As before, I'll return respect with respect and crudeness with crudeness.

What do conservatives feel about Trump lying?

No politician tells the truth all the time. That's a sad but accurate fact of life in politics, so I'm not saying Obama or Hillary are paragons of truth. They are not, especially Hillary.

But liberals are confused over why conservatives don't call out or complain about Trump's lies. To us, these aren't just spin or partisan arguments. For example, Trump's comments on Obama releasing 122 Gitmo fighters (when Obama only released nine), the non-existent Sweden terrorist attack, and his claim that crime rates are up when they're actually down are all easily proven incorrect. At least from my perspective, conservatives (especially Trump supporters) are quiet on these lies.

What am I missing here? Do you feel that Trump is telling the truth and these "lies" are distortions by the liberal media? Is there a "bigger picture" argument that Trump might get details wrong but he's still correct as a whole? Or what?

Again, I'm just trying to grok the other side so I can be less ignorant and more sympathetic. Cheers!

/---- I don't see Pres Trump lying. It depends on how you parse the numbers to defend Obozo: Obama Releases More Gitmo Detainees Despite an Estimated 30% Returning to Terrorism

First, that link doesn't list the total number released by anyone. It says 150 were transferred from Gitmo but not released. I'm honestly confused how you can say "it depends on how you parse the numbers" when talking about 122 vs. 9.

Second, are you really saying you don't think Trump lies? That's fine if that's your belief, but I'm surprised.

 

[wjmacguffin]

Its the same thing the left did with Obama. And the right did with bush. And the left did with <insert anyone>
Its called being a partisan hack.
On lies, IMO, Trump has the quantity sold up. However, he lacks the quality.
IMO, if the left really gave a fuck about trumps lies, they wouldn't let the letter D lie to them every fucking day.
Disingenuous hackery.

Then let me paraphrase if I can to make sure I understand you. (And thanks for answering honestly without attacking me!)

You're saying that Trump's lies are tolerable because 1) everybody tolerates the lies from their side, and 2) Trump's might lie often but he doesn't make egregious lies. Is that correct?

I didn't say his lies are tolerable.
1 and 2 are right.
His lies mostly just boost his ego. The rest is ignorance. He has yet to purposefully lie to get us into wars, lies about American death or lies so they can get control of 20% of our economy.
The right don't care he lies. Some even defend it, which makes them just as dishonest.
The left act likes they care but I don't think they really do. Dems lie every day, the media lies everyday. And they don't care about those lies unless it hurts their side.
Partisanship is a huge problem in our country.
The two sides cant even agree on FACTS

I really appreciate your thoroughness and politeness in your response, especially because I didn't fully understand your first response. Cheers!

 

[wjmacguffin]

I haven't seen any credible evidence of Trump's "lies" coming from the leftist media.

• Trump said Obama released 122 Gitmo fighters, but Obama released nine. The other 113 were released by Bush.
• Trump said he won the election in a landslide, but he lost the popular vote and his electoral college victory was slim.
• Trump said 81% of whites murdered are killed by blacks. That number is actually 15%.
• Trump said that Syrian Christians were not able to come to the US, but Syrian Christian refugees were being admitted.

Even FOX News anchor Shep Smith has called out Trump for lying, and FOX is not part of the leftist media.

So are you actually saying that Trump *hasn't* lied? Is this all a leftist conspiracy to you? That's fine if that's really your opinion, as you have every right to believe anything you want. I just find it surprising and incredulous.

No credible citations/sources, so not a credible post.

Before I list citations and whatnot, could you list some sources you consider credible? I have a feeling you'd look at anything I cited as biased and wrong.

 

[AsianTrumpSupporter]

I haven't seen any credible evidence of Trump's "lies" coming from the leftist media.

• Trump said Obama released 122 Gitmo fighters, but Obama released nine. The other 113 were released by Bush.
• Trump said he won the election in a landslide, but he lost the popular vote and his electoral college victory was slim.
• Trump said 81% of whites murdered are killed by blacks. That number is actually 15%.
• Trump said that Syrian Christians were not able to come to the US, but Syrian Christian refugees were being admitted.

Even FOX News anchor Shep Smith has called out Trump for lying, and FOX is not part of the leftist media.

So are you actually saying that Trump *hasn't* lied? Is this all a leftist conspiracy to you? That's fine if that's really your opinion, as you have every right to believe anything you want. I just find it surprising and incredulous.

No credible citations/sources, so not a credible post.

Before I list citations and whatnot, could you list some sources you consider credible? I have a feeling you'd look at anything I cited as biased and wrong.

Sure. Wikileaks, Info Wars, William Binney, Edward Snowden, etc. You want to know what I think about Trump's "lies." Those are the kinds of sources I find credible.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I haven't seen any credible evidence of Trump's "lies" coming from the leftist media.

• Trump said Obama released 122 Gitmo fighters, but Obama released nine. The other 113 were released by Bush.
• Trump said he won the election in a landslide, but he lost the popular vote and his electoral college victory was slim.
• Trump said 81% of whites murdered are killed by blacks. That number is actually 15%.
• Trump said that Syrian Christians were not able to come to the US, but Syrian Christian refugees were being admitted.

Even FOX News anchor Shep Smith has called out Trump for lying, and FOX is not part of the leftist media.

So are you actually saying that Trump *hasn't* lied? Is this all a leftist conspiracy to you? That's fine if that's really your opinion, as you have every right to believe anything you want. I just find it surprising and incredulous.

Trump said Obama released 122 Gitmo fighters, but Obama released nine. The other 113 were released by Bush.

In 8 years Obama only released 9 prisoners from Gitmo?
Are you sure?

 

[wjmacguffin]

Non existent terrorist attack?!
Three men appear in court over 'gang rape live streamed on Facebook'
Report: Afghan Migrants Arrested in Facebook Live Rape Case
Releases from gitmo
Obama Releases More Gitmo Detainees Despite an Estimated 30% Returning to Terrorism
Prisoners: Who's Still Held? - Welcome to "Close Guantánamo"
196 of the 779 prisoners were released under President Obama, and although no prisoners were released for 15 months from January 2011,
Crime rate?
Chicago death toll driving up overall murder rate for country's biggest cities
Cheers!

Liberal Seeks To Understand #4
I'll admit to being a liberal, so speak slowly and use small words please. Although I can get salty, here I'm just trying to understand conservatives' POV on issues. This is an honest question. As before, I'll return respect with respect and crudeness with crudeness.

What do conservatives feel about Trump lying?

No politician tells the truth all the time. That's a sad but accurate fact of life in politics, so I'm not saying Obama or Hillary are paragons of truth. They are not, especially Hillary.

But liberals are confused over why conservatives don't call out or complain about Trump's lies. To us, these aren't just spin or partisan arguments. For example, Trump's comments on Obama releasing 122 Gitmo fighters (when Obama only released nine), the non-existent Sweden terrorist attack, and his claim that crime rates are up when they're actually down are all easily proven incorrect. At least from my perspective, conservatives (especially Trump supporters) are quiet on these lies.

What am I missing here? Do you feel that Trump is telling the truth and these "lies" are distortions by the liberal media? Is there a "bigger picture" argument that Trump might get details wrong but he's still correct as a whole? Or what?

Again, I'm just trying to grok the other side so I can be less ignorant and more sympathetic. Cheers!

Non existent terrorist attack?!
Three men appear in court over 'gang rape live streamed on Facebook'
Report: Afghan Migrants Arrested in Facebook Live Rape Case
Releases from gitmo
Obama Releases More Gitmo Detainees Despite an Estimated 30% Returning to Terrorism
Prisoners: Who's Still Held? - Welcome to "Close Guantánamo"
196 of the 779 prisoners were released under President Obama, and although no prisoners were released for 15 months from January 2011,
Crime rate?
Chicago death toll driving up overall murder rate for country's biggest cities
Cheers!

Liberal Seeks To Understand #4
I'll admit to being a liberal, so speak slowly and use small words please. Although I can get salty, here I'm just trying to understand conservatives' POV on issues. This is an honest question. As before, I'll return respect with respect and crudeness with crudeness.

What do conservatives feel about Trump lying?

No politician tells the truth all the time. That's a sad but accurate fact of life in politics, so I'm not saying Obama or Hillary are paragons of truth. They are not, especially Hillary.

But liberals are confused over why conservatives don't call out or complain about Trump's lies. To us, these aren't just spin or partisan arguments. For example, Trump's comments on Obama releasing 122 Gitmo fighters (when Obama only released nine), the non-existent Sweden terrorist attack, and his claim that crime rates are up when they're actually down are all easily proven incorrect. At least from my perspective, conservatives (especially Trump supporters) are quiet on these lies.

What am I missing here? Do you feel that Trump is telling the truth and these "lies" are distortions by the liberal media? Is there a "bigger picture" argument that Trump might get details wrong but he's still correct as a whole? Or what?

Again, I'm just trying to grok the other side so I can be less ignorant and more sympathetic. Cheers!

1) While rape is awful, it's not a terrorist attack.

2) That article only mentions five Gitmo detainees being released by Obama. It mentions 150 being transferred, but that's not nearly the same as being released.

However, I misspoke. Trump said 122 of those released by Obama went back to fighting as terrorists. Of those 122, nine are from Obama and the rest from Bush. I will correct my OP above, and my apologies.

3) To quote from that article, "... deaths that are coming during a historically safe era ...." Although the Chicago murder rate is increasing, the nation as a whole is still safer than it has been.

 

[depotoo]

One already covered
Yeah, he screwed up retweeting someone's false statistic tweet. He did not make up the statistic.
Trump distances himself from black murder stats: Retweets aren't endorsements
Your interpretation of electoral vote as being slim, seems you lied or misinterpret,
306-232
2016 Presidential Election Actual Results
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/12/19/us/elections/electoral-college-results.html
Christian Syrian refugees, he said-
Trump’s claim that it is ‘very tough’ for Christian Syrians to get to the United States
Did you lie or misinterpret?

Shep Smith is on the far left end of the spectrum.

I haven't seen any credible evidence of Trump's "lies" coming from the leftist media.

• Trump said Obama released 122 Gitmo fighters, but Obama released nine. The other 113 were released by Bush.
• Trump said he won the election in a landslide, but he lost the popular vote and his electoral college victory was slim.
• Trump said 81% of whites murdered are killed by blacks. That number is actually 15%.
• Trump said that Syrian Christians were not able to come to the US, but Syrian Christian refugees were being admitted.

Even FOX News anchor Shep Smith has called out Trump for lying, and FOX is not part of the leftist media.

So are you actually saying that Trump *hasn't* lied? Is this all a leftist conspiracy to you? That's fine if that's really your opinion, as you have every right to believe anything you want. I just find it surprising and incredulous.

 

[wjmacguffin]

Liberal Seeks To Understand #4
I'll admit to being a liberal, so speak slowly and use small words please. Although I can get salty, here I'm just trying to understand conservatives' POV on issues. This is an honest question. As before, I'll return respect with respect and crudeness with crudeness.

What do conservatives feel about Trump lying?

No politician tells the truth all the time. That's a sad but accurate fact of life in politics, so I'm not saying Obama or Hillary are paragons of truth. They are not, especially Hillary.

But liberals are confused over why conservatives don't call out or complain about Trump's lies. To us, these aren't just spin or partisan arguments. For example, Trump's comments on Obama releasing 122 Gitmo fighters (when Obama only released nine), the non-existent Sweden terrorist attack, and his claim that crime rates are up when they're actually down are all easily proven incorrect. At least from my perspective, conservatives (especially Trump supporters) are quiet on these lies.

What am I missing here? Do you feel that Trump is telling the truth and these "lies" are distortions by the liberal media? Is there a "bigger picture" argument that Trump might get details wrong but he's still correct as a whole? Or what?

Again, I'm just trying to grok the other side so I can be less ignorant and more sympathetic. Cheers!

As you have already said no politician says always the truth
But you complain because some of his supporters don't notice his lies; maybe some of these lies are not lies at all.
For instance you said he talk about non existent terrorist attacks in Sweden but he didn't say that. I've seen some videos on YouTube they did show what Mr. Trump said: he talked about all the crimes committed by immigrants in Swedish towns.
Anyway supporters can't be impartial. If they were impartial they wouldn't be real supporters lol

Yeah, I hear you about supporters. But there's a big difference between support ("I think Hillary would make a great president") and blind support ("Hillary never lied!") Many liberal friends of mine see today's conservatives as having blind support for Trump. Sadly, several responses above fit that perfectly.