Let's Repeal Obamacare and Try Freedom re Healthcare and Most Other Things Too

[BlackAsCoal]

Medicare and Medicaid are the "status quo" and they're insolvent.

Wrong.

Insolvency won't come before 2017 .. and there are ways to avoid that from happening.

How many seniors do you think are looking forward to that?.

If allowed to go insolvent, millions of American seniors may not be able to afford to stay alive.

 

[RDD_1210]

"Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"......straight from the Declaration of Independence declaring the inalienable rights of our nation. The very first word, "Life" should be proof enough that healthcare is indeed a right of every citizen of this country.

The right to seek healthcare, yes. The right to obtain healthcare on the same basis as everybody else obtains it yes. (Equal rights and protection.) The right to demand that you provide me with healthcare, no. Unalienable rights as introduced in the Declaration of Independence and affirmed by the 'blessings of liberty' in the Preamble are those that nobody should be able to take from you but that require no contribution or participation by others.

When you assume that it is your right for me to provide you with anything and are given license to act on that, I have no rights at all. Neither do you.

And therein lies the problem. When people WANT healthcare but can't afford it because of out of control costs, or WANT healthcare but can't get it because they are being denied due to 'pre-existing' conditions, then it becomes the responsibility of the government to step in to ensure that people are able to maintain their basic rights as Americans. THOSE people are being denied access to healthcare are the ones who are losing their rights, NOT you.

 

[Revere]

Medicare and Medicaid are the "status quo" and they're insolvent.

Wrong.

Insolvency won't come before 2017 .. and there are ways to avoid that from happening.

How many seniors do you think are looking forward to that?.

If allowed to go insolvent, millions of American seniors may not be able to afford to stay alive.

Tax increases will never keep pace with the growth of those programs, so you'll have to ration services.

The welfare state is collapsing.

Why do the fanatics think we need more welfare?

 

[Revere]

"Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"......straight from the Declaration of Independence declaring the inalienable rights of our nation. The very first word, "Life" should be proof enough that healthcare is indeed a right of every citizen of this country.

The right to seek healthcare, yes. The right to obtain healthcare on the same basis as everybody else obtains it yes. (Equal rights and protection.) The right to demand that you provide me with healthcare, no. Unalienable rights as introduced in the Declaration of Independence and affirmed by the 'blessings of liberty' in the Preamble are those that nobody should be able to take from you but that require no contribution or participation by others.

When you assume that it is your right for me to provide you with anything and are given license to act on that, I have no rights at all. Neither do you.

And therein lies the problem. When people WANT healthcare but can't afford it because of out of control costs, or WANT healthcare but can't get it because they are being denied due to 'pre-existing' conditions, then it becomes the responsibility of the government to step in to ensure that people are able to maintain their basic rights as Americans. THOSE people are being denied access to healthcare are the ones who are losing their rights, NOT you.

Insurance for pre-existing conditions is welfare, not insurance.

You don't have a right to health care someone else pays for.

 

[RDD_1210]

No, it's not.

Government doesn't give everyone all the healthcare they want. There is no point in destroying a system that works for most Americans for the promises of people who have accomplised nothing.

And you just shot yourself in the foot. You think the system works as is! You actually have no clue what's going on in this country and have no business giving your obviously uninformed "opinion".

 

[RDD_1210]

The right to seek healthcare, yes. The right to obtain healthcare on the same basis as everybody else obtains it yes. (Equal rights and protection.) The right to demand that you provide me with healthcare, no. Unalienable rights as introduced in the Declaration of Independence and affirmed by the 'blessings of liberty' in the Preamble are those that nobody should be able to take from you but that require no contribution or participation by others.

When you assume that it is your right for me to provide you with anything and are given license to act on that, I have no rights at all. Neither do you.

And therein lies the problem. When people WANT healthcare but can't afford it because of out of control costs, or WANT healthcare but can't get it because they are being denied due to 'pre-existing' conditions, then it becomes the responsibility of the government to step in to ensure that people are able to maintain their basic rights as Americans. THOSE people are being denied access to healthcare are the ones who are losing their rights, NOT you.

Insurance for pre-existing conditions is welfare, not insurance.

You don't have a right to health care someone else pays for.

No it's not.

Yes you do.

 

[Revere]

Why do the assets of a private company belong to you?

 

[WillowTree]

No fan of Obamacare .. but let's go back to the status quo is not the wnaswer.

Let's go back to letting insurance companies drain Americans of their savings for adequate healthcare is not the answer.

Medicare for All is the answer.

Why? Medicare is bankrupt trying to insure just a fraction of the population and continues to swell deficits and the national debt. How much would that be exacerbated by insuring everybody in that way and how many would you drive out of the healthcare provider business altogether once you stripped them of most or all of their profits?

I doubt you even remember the status quo when the free market drove insurance and healthcare costs instead of the government. Things were much MUCH more affordable then, and I believe if you get the government out of it, it will be much more affordable again.

Medicare is the most popular program in American history .. because it works. It's the only thing keeping millions of seniors alive.
Are there issues and problems that need to be corrected .. of course there are. But the infrastructure is already in place and there are no problems with it that cannot be fixed.

You doubt if I remember when the status quo drove the system? What do you think is driving it now?

Who do you think wrote the damn bill?

The status quo is driving American healthcare right into the ground and millions of Americans bankrupt .. which is why healthcare was near the top of campaign issues even before Obama was elected.

.. and in case you don't remember, Richard Nixon proposed a better and more liberal bill than what OBama passed in 1974.

not for long. the asshole in the wh stole 960 Billion dollars from medicare. from seniors.

 

[Revere]

Nixon created OSHA and the EPA, too.

Asshole.

 

[RDD_1210]

Why? Medicare is bankrupt trying to insure just a fraction of the population and continues to swell deficits and the national debt. How much would that be exacerbated by insuring everybody in that way and how many would you drive out of the healthcare provider business altogether once you stripped them of most or all of their profits?

I doubt you even remember the status quo when the free market drove insurance and healthcare costs instead of the government. Things were much MUCH more affordable then, and I believe if you get the government out of it, it will be much more affordable again.

Medicare is the most popular program in American history .. because it works. It's the only thing keeping millions of seniors alive.
Are there issues and problems that need to be corrected .. of course there are. But the infrastructure is already in place and there are no problems with it that cannot be fixed.

You doubt if I remember when the status quo drove the system? What do you think is driving it now?

Who do you think wrote the damn bill?

The status quo is driving American healthcare right into the ground and millions of Americans bankrupt .. which is why healthcare was near the top of campaign issues even before Obama was elected.

.. and in case you don't remember, Richard Nixon proposed a better and more liberal bill than what OBama passed in 1974.

not for long. the asshole in the wh stole 960 Billion dollars from medicare. from seniors.

So you're upset they took money away from a Socialized Health Care Program? Odd....

 

[RDD_1210]

Why do the assets of a private company belong to you?

Because.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

Medicare and Medicaid are the "status quo" and they're insolvent.

Wrong.

Insolvency won't come before 2017 .. and there are ways to avoid that from happening.

How many seniors do you think are looking forward to that?.

If allowed to go insolvent, millions of American seniors may not be able to afford to stay alive.

Tax increases will never keep pace with the growth of those programs, so you'll have to ration services.

The welfare state is collapsing.

Why do the fanatics think we need more welfare?

Can't answer for fanatics, can't answer for people who are incapable of seeing that capitialism itself is collapsing.

Like most Americans, what I do see is that the American system of healthcare is seriously broken. It's a system that charges whatever it can get away with and is the leading cause of bankruptcy.

That's the status quo.

 

[Foxfyre]

"Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"......straight from the Declaration of Independence declaring the inalienable rights of our nation. The very first word, "Life" should be proof enough that healthcare is indeed a right of every citizen of this country.

The right to seek healthcare, yes. The right to obtain healthcare on the same basis as everybody else obtains it yes. (Equal rights and protection.) The right to demand that you provide me with healthcare, no. Unalienable rights as introduced in the Declaration of Independence and affirmed by the 'blessings of liberty' in the Preamble are those that nobody should be able to take from you but that require no contribution or participation by others.

When you assume that it is your right for me to provide you with anything and are given license to act on that, I have no rights at all. Neither do you.

And therein lies the problem. When people WANT healthcare but can't afford it because of out of control costs, or WANT healthcare but can't get it because they are being denied due to 'pre-existing' conditions, then it becomes the responsibility of the government to step in to ensure that people are able to maintain their basic rights as Americans. THOSE people are being denied access to healthcare are the ones who are losing their rights, NOT you.

No, they are not being denied any right so long as they can access available goods and services on the same basis as everybody else accesses those available goods and services. The fact that they are unable to do so may be cause for you to extend charity, but it is not justifiable cause for your property to be confiscated on their behalf.

I have no unalienable right to any property of yours. I cannot demand that you provide me with food, clothing, shelter, transportation, a job, money, or healthcare or any necessity of life that I am unable or unwilling to provide for myself. If I can demand ANYTHING from you other than your noninterference, you have no rights at all. The government who can decide that you must provide me with whatever I need is a government who can take anything you have at any time it wants. And you have no rights at all.

 

[Revere]

Wrong.

Insolvency won't come before 2017 .. and there are ways to avoid that from happening.

How many seniors do you think are looking forward to that?.

If allowed to go insolvent, millions of American seniors may not be able to afford to stay alive.

Tax increases will never keep pace with the growth of those programs, so you'll have to ration services.

The welfare state is collapsing.

Why do the fanatics think we need more welfare?

Can't answer for fanatics, can't answer for people who are incapable of seeing that capitialism itself is collapsing.

Like most Americans, what I do see is that the American system of healthcare is seriously broken. It's a system that charges whatever it can get away with and is the leading cause of bankruptcy.

That's the status quo.

Expanding baseline budgeting of the Federal government 24% in two years is not capitalism.

Did government stop bankruptcies for any reason? Did government stop foreclosures?

 

[BlackAsCoal]

Nixon created OSHA and the EPA, too.

Asshole.

If you're talking to me the "assholes" can be found at your house. Go talk to them about your fear.

Both OSHA and the EPA were more good Nixon ideas.

 

[RDD_1210]

The right to seek healthcare, yes. The right to obtain healthcare on the same basis as everybody else obtains it yes. (Equal rights and protection.) The right to demand that you provide me with healthcare, no. Unalienable rights as introduced in the Declaration of Independence and affirmed by the 'blessings of liberty' in the Preamble are those that nobody should be able to take from you but that require no contribution or participation by others.

When you assume that it is your right for me to provide you with anything and are given license to act on that, I have no rights at all. Neither do you.

And therein lies the problem. When people WANT healthcare but can't afford it because of out of control costs, or WANT healthcare but can't get it because they are being denied due to 'pre-existing' conditions, then it becomes the responsibility of the government to step in to ensure that people are able to maintain their basic rights as Americans. THOSE people are being denied access to healthcare are the ones who are losing their rights, NOT you.

No, they are not being denied any right so long as they can access available goods and services on the same basis as everybody else accesses those available goods and services. The fact that they are unable to do so may be cause for you to extend charity, but it is not justifiable cause for your property to be confiscated on their behalf.

How dense are you?? THAT is the problem in this country. There are WAY too many people who can't get basic healthcare that they need because the system is broken. These aren't deadbeats looking to mooch of the system. These are middle class Americans who the system has let down. That system needed a major overhaul that obviously wasn't coming from the private sector, so the government HAD to intervene and ensure that Americans were able to achieve their basic rights as citizens.

I'm sorry that you only care about yourself and your bank account. It's a shame we have heartless people like you in this country who doesn't give a shit about their neighbors and how they are being fucked over every day. Be Proud, Be Ignorant!

 

[Revere]

Everyone gets health care in this country who wants it.

 

[Revere]

Nixon created OSHA and the EPA, too.

Asshole.

If you're talking to me the "assholes" can be found at your house. Go talk to them about your fear.

Both OSHA and the EPA were more good Nixon ideas.

Where did they get him?

 

[RDD_1210]

Everyone gets health care in this country who wants it.

Link?

 

[Steerpike]

I don't think you have a right to health care. If there is such a right, where does it come from?

That said, I believe it is morally right that we, as a nation, ensure that those who truly can't obtain health care on there own have access to it.