Zone1 Let it be said that legalized abortion on demand cheapens/ devalues life.

[JoeB131]

I'm not sure what your point is.

If a person wants to hire a hitman to murder their spouse, they can find a way to do it even if it is illegal. That doesn't mean it should be legal.

Okay, let's look at that.

We have very severe penalties for murder for hire.

Are you saying we should have equally severe penalties for abortion?

Chuz would think so, but sensible people, not so much.

Does an abortion end a human life?

Yes or no?

no. The fetus isn't viable; therefore, it isn't a life.

Here's the thing, back before modern medicine, even babies that were born weren't considered particularly valuable, when the infant mortality rate was something like 60%. People had babies, but they didn't get terribly attached to them.

It was actually considered a big deal if a boy-child lived long enough to wear pants.

Abortion is a natural reaction to the fact that we've eliminated infant mortality. Instead of carrying every pregnancy to term, hoping one of them makes it, you just have one or two pregnancies and call it a day.

I suspect someday in the future, people will give up on pregnancy altogether and we'll just grow kids in tubes.

 

[JoeB131]

Devalued lives. . . .

What have I been saying?

Your usual nonsense about fetuses being people.

When no one ever considered them to be people. Not even in bible times.

 

[Chuz Life]

Okay, let's look at that.

We have very severe penalties for murder for hire.

Are you saying we should have equally severe penalties for abortion?

Chuz would think so, but sensible people, not so much.



no. The fetus isn't viable; therefore, it isn't a life.

Here's the thing, back before modern medicine, even babies that were born weren't considered particularly valuable, when the infant mortality rate was something like 60%. People had babies, but they didn't get terribly attached to them.

It was actually considered a big deal if a boy-child lived long enough to wear pants.

Abortion is a natural reaction to the fact that we've eliminated infant mortality. Instead of carrying every pregnancy to term, hoping one of them makes it, you just have one or two pregnancies and call it a day.

I suspect someday in the future, people will give up on pregnancy altogether and we'll just grow kids in tubes.

So Fetal HOMICIDE laws. . . .

 

[Chuz Life]

Your usual nonsense about fetuses being people.

When no one ever considered them to be people. Not even in bible times.

Were you conceived, Joe?

 

[JoeB131]

So Fetal HOMICIDE laws. . . .

Which are only inflicted on people who do harm to the woman.

Not on women themselves or their doctors providing reproductive care.

That said, I think these are awful laws and need to be gotten rid of.

If someone kills a fetus, charge him with murder or assault of the woman.

 

[Chuz Life]

Your usual nonsense about fetuses being people.

When no one ever considered them to be people. Not even in bible times.

Ain't nobody proving my point in the OP better than you are, Joe.

 

[Midnight FM]

Your usual nonsense about fetuses being people.

When no one ever considered them to be people. Not even in bible times.

Oh please. Slavery existed in Bible times as well, and wasn't abolished until recent history. Black people weren't considered "people" during the early days of America.

If a fetus gets to the point that it has its own brain and individual consciousness, I would say it has as much rights as a born person, regardless of viability.

 

[JoeB131]

Were you conceived, Joe?

Yes, I was.

But unlike an older sibling who died as a result of a miscarriage, I actually got to be a person.

The unnamed sibling between my two sisters, not so much.

 

[Midnight FM]

Here's the thing, back before modern medicine, even babies that were born weren't considered particularly valuable, when the infant mortality rate was something like 60%. People had babies, but they didn't get terribly attached to them.

And you're in favor of regressing to the attitudes of a comparatively barbaric day and age?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Who is forcing you to expose your pettiness in this manner?

It's a thread with a poll.

Only time will tell the full story on when and where the abortion issue goes with regard to the SCOTUS and I doubt that either of us will be here to see how it ultimately ends.

That is where you are dead wrong, and the sooner you realize that short of a Constitutional Amendment banning abortion, you are pissing into the wind.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

"Thou shalt not kill" has been around for thousands of years, and it's still illegal to murder people.

Oops, you seem to have forgotten that it is YOU who are tasked with arguing it is murder.

"Nuh uh" isnt going to cut it.

Take your time.

 

[JoeB131]

Ain't nobody proving my point in the OP better than you are, Joe.

You don't have a point.

You think Globby is a person.

Medical Science doesn't.
The Law doesn't.

Even the Bible doesn't.

And a good thing, too.

Otherwise, we'd have to charge women with assault for engaging in sports, smoking, having a sip of wine, or not eating the right food during pregnancy.

We'd have to investigate every miscarriage as a homicide.

And in vitro fertilization? Forget about it, putting Globby in deep freeze forever after his parents got the child they wanted would be violating their human rights.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I'd say 5 weeks or a heartbeat is good enough.

Then you would sound daft. A heartbeat does not therefore require consciousness or sentience.

All your work is still left ahead of you.

 

[Chuz Life]

Haha, such a bizarre argument. "Net increase or decrease."

Like, who gives a **** about such a concept, when making a decision about an individual? If you have to reach that far to have anything to say, you dont have anything to say.

And I can guarantee for shit sure this fake altruism ends the moment the baby is born.

"Who gives a ****?"

About the denial of basic human rights to the smallest, weakest and most vulnerable human beings of all?

I will proudly say that I do.

You won't even afford them any recognition of the fact that they are human beings and that they are the young/ offspring (children) of the parents who conceived them. . .

For those on the fence, what more proof do you need to see the devaluation that is taking place?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I think the biggest mistake Democrats made was not codifying Roe into the Federal Register when they had the chance.

That's something they can fix in 2028, though. Hopefully after the MAGA clown show is run out town on a rail.

Admiral Rockwell Tory

See this?

Yes, I see one ignoramus quoting another one. JoeB131 is an idiot of the highest caliber. Do you want to be like him? Go right ahead!

 

[Chuz Life]

That is where you are dead wrong, and the sooner you realize that short of a Constitutional Amendment banning abortion, you are pissing into the wind.

I'll take that chance.


So appreciate your concern though.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

About the denial of basic human rights to the smallest, weakest and most vulnerable human beings of all?

You deny the rights of the mother, when you let those of the fetus supersede hers.

So this melodramatic, bad acting isnt going to work for you.

 

[Midnight FM]

Then you would sound daft. A heartbeat does not therefore require consciousness or sentience.

All your work is still left ahead of you.

A heartbeat develops at about 5 weeks, the same time that a fetus develops a brain.

I'm not sure what technology is available for detecting brain activity, but since a heartbeat can be detected, it's likely easier to use it as the cutoff point.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I'll take that chance.


So appreciate your concern though.

It is not a chance. It is a certainty, and you are simply a fool.

 

[Chuz Life]

You deny the rights of the mother, when you let those of the fetus supersede hers.

So this melodramatic, bad acting isnt going to work for you.

Who put the child where it is and in the physical relationship that it is in with his or her biological mother?

Who is responsible for that situation?