Zone1 Let it be said that legalized abortion on demand cheapens/ devalues life.

[JoeB131]

Seems you want to skip over the competing rights debate and go straight to life in the womb is property to be disposed of at the will of its owner.

There is no competing rights debate. A glob of tissue shouldn't have more rights than the woman it is inside.

Her body. Her choice.

 

[Chuz Life]

I detect a tad of bitterness there. But again, when men can bring children to term, then they can have a say about any fetuses growing inside of them... just not inside anyone else.

Nothing makes your opinions easier to dismiss than that one does.

 

[JoeB131]

Nothing makes your opinions easier to dismiss than that one does.

Quite the contrary, even the crazy post Dobb's world doesn't give the sperm donor any more special rights.

Her body. Her Choice. Deal with it.

 

[Chuz Life]

Quite the contrary, even the crazy post Dobb's world doesn't give the sperm donor any more special rights.

Her body. Her Choice. Deal with it.

Her body, her choice. . . Just, not when her body begins.

Yeah.

That seems logical, alright.

 

[JoeB131]

Her body, her choice. . . Just, not when her body begins.

Yeah.

That seems logical, alright.

Works for me.

I'm not sure any fetus can get pregnant, but when it does, I will totally support it's right to have an abortion.

 

[Chuz Life]

Works for me.

I'm not sure any fetus can get pregnant, but when it does, I will totally support it's right to have an abortion.

Just so we are clear, you don't believe a woman (or any other person) has a right to their body (autonomy, protections, etc.) when their body begins.

Correct?

 

[initforme]

Just so we are clear, you don't believe a woman (or any other person) has a right to their body (autonomy, protections, etc.) when their body begins.

Correct?

What you want is no more births.

 

[Chuz Life]

What you want is no more births.

No.

Why don't you ask me what I "want," instead of just guessing?

It's not a secret.

I "want" the truth to be known and respected.

I "want" those who kill children with abortions and those who support the laws that keep the killing of children with abortions "legal" to admit they are killing children and systematically denying the children killed their basic human rights.

That is what I "want."

 

[initforme]

No.

Why don't you ask me what I "want," instead of just guessing?

It's not a secret.

I "want" the truth to be known and respected.

I "want" those who kill children with abortions and those who support the laws that keep the killing of children with abortions "legal" to admit they are killing children and systematically denying the children killed their basic human rights.

That is what I "want."

The only way it will go away is if alot less women choose to have kids and take the steps not to have them. So, you should be in favor of a rapidly declining birthrate.

 

[Chuz Life]

The only way it will go away is if alot less women choose to have kids and take the steps not to have them. So, you should be in favor of a rapidly declining birthrate.

Not sure that would have anything to do with what the truth is or the legal agendas of either side. Nor would it have anything to do with the OP of this thread.

 

[initforme]

Not sure that would have anything to do with what the truth is or the legal agendas of either side. Nor would it have anything to do with the OP of this thread.

It does. Because the only way to get rid abortion is to ensure nobody gets pregnant. Then you get what you want. And it would be biblical.

 

[Chuz Life]

It does. Because the only way to get rid abortion is to ensure nobody gets pregnant. Then you get what you want. And it would be biblical.

Now you are just trolling.

Nobody is claiming or saying anything about "getting rid" of abortion.

If we could "get rid" of human rights violations like abortions, we could also "get rid" of rapes, murders and all the other forms of molestations, assaults and abuses.

Last try to make some real effort to stick to the OP and not make any more asinine assumptions before I put you on ignore.

 

[initforme]

Now you are just trolling.

Nobody is claiming or saying anything about "getting rid" of abortion.

If we could "get rid" of human rights violations like abortions, we could also "get rid" of rapes, murders and all the other forms of molestations, assaults and abuses.

Last try to make some real effort to stick to the OP and not make any more asinine assumptions before I put you on ignore.

Go ahead i implore you to.

 

[Chuz Life]

Go ahead i implore you to.

Done.

 

[JohnDB]

They should have plenty of rights, AFTER the child is born.

Your derailing into Blake Lively aside (I barely know or care who that is), the reality is, it's her body, and her choice.



Actually, the wage gap has tightened, but men still earn more. Partially because they aren't derailed in their careers by pregnancy.

View attachment 1146240



I detect a tad of bitterness there. But again, when men can bring children to term, then they can have a say about any fetuses growing inside of them... just not inside anyone else.

Immaculate conception only happened once and they killed Him.

If a man has supplied genetic material to create the child he is equally important in the child's life. Even if before it is born.

Because if he equally is held responsible for the financial burden he is also equally able to receive all benefits of being a parent.

Unless a man has agreed to only be stud service by written agreement....he is instrumental and has full standing in determining the best welfare for the child. (Legal terms)

And I'm discussing YOUNG 2nd+ gen citizens & families and not the entire population when discussing wage and genders. Older men create businesses....women tend to restrict their income by not taking the risk of entrepreneurial enterprises. Also older generations have paid off student loans.


Your "data" is a bait and switch. Highly disingenuous.

Child bearing ages of 18-40. Usually mid 20's to mid 30's are prime child bearing years for women. 40's plus tend to be finished due to risks.

And your statements are completely sexist. Men are not 2nd class citizens only good for the money in their pockets.

You have yet to provide one shred of proof or reasonable argument that is not sexist propaganda that men should not have prebirth rights.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Seems you want to skip over the competing rights debate and go straight to life in the womb is property to be disposed of at the will of its owner.

You, Saint Ding are not invited to the debate between the “owner” and her conscience or her God whether or not she believes in one.

Human living zygots, embryos and fetuses are naturally occurring objects in the universe as once I was myself; protected by my mother’s right to give me birth, Her gift not God’s gift to me. My individual right to life was subordinate to my mother’s right until such time as I became separated from her at birth. At birth, my independent individual right to life is when my protected by the law and order of a society, began. Very simple. Saint Ding; there is no debate with nosy self-righteous people like you involved.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Do you agree that legalized abortion has an effect of devaluing life in a society that sees abortions as anything less than a violation of the basic human rights of the children that are denied and killed?

No. When women have safe access to abortions no matter where they live, and no matter if the majority the population where they live are white Christian nationalist, the value of human life is maintained

There is no detrimental effect on society when the states have safe access to abortions to any woman who wants one and is not punished.

 

[JoeB131]

Just so we are clear, you don't believe a woman (or any other person) has a right to their body (autonomy, protections, etc.) when their body begins.

Correct?

No, I just have a different opinion on when their body begins. My body began on May 7th, 1962, according to my birth certificate.

We don't have funerals for tampons or medical waste.

No.

Why don't you ask me what I "want," instead of just guessing?

It's not a secret.

Right, you want to put them uppity women in their place.

I "want" those who kill children with abortions and those who support the laws that keep the killing of children with abortions "legal" to admit they are killing children and systematically denying the children killed their basic human rights.

That is what I "want."

That's going to be a long wait for a train that never comes.

Fetuses aren't children. At least not at the stage most abortions are performed, which is before 12 weeks. They are globs of tissue no bigger than a kidney bean.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

I "want" those who kill children with abortions and those who support the laws that keep the killing of children with abortions "legal" to admit they are killing children and systematically denying the children killed their basic human rights.

That is what I "want."

Why do you want that? If you don’t want the woman prosecuted for premeditated murder then you have devalued fetal life in your mind on the first place anyway.

When a woman ends a human life that is living inside her body, she is depriving that human life of developing a right to life at birth as she did when she was born. However, there is no consequence to the general public or society when she does, so therefore there is no reason for society to punish a woman in any way.

Are you happy now? Saint Chuzlife?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

you want to skip over the competing rights debate

Why do you skip over the reality that our civilized society under a secular system of government and laws, only recognizes individual liberty and autonomy at the moment of birth?

A fetus is protected in our civilized society through the rights of a woman who has chosen to give birth. But our civilized society does not choose because of individual liberty to subordinate the woman to a human life that is developing within her body.

That is just reality a reality that you refuse to deal with and accept