Know Your History: Jews Transforming The Land(NY Times, 1890-1912)

[Mindful]

What do you mean by "Arab Palestinians don't meet the criteria for a distinct culture"?

Well, I'll clarify by saying I don't think the Arab Palestinians NEED a distinct culture in order to have rights to sovereignty and self-determination on part of that territory. Self-identification is ENOUGH. (You appear to be arguing the opposite -- that self-identification is not enough.)

But what I mean by distinct culture is exactly what you think I mean. A culture that is distinct from all other cultures. A culture which distinguishes itself from other cultures by having qualities which are unique to them. The Palestinians do not have such a thing. (There are some minor differences in Arabic dialect and some regional differences in the particular embroidery patterns on women's clothing. That's it.) They do not have a unique language. They do not have a unique religion. No unique life celebrations. No unique holidays. No unique laws. No unique history, myths. There is nothing to identify them AS Palestinian. (Other than their own self-identification).

Now, from here you can really only argue two things. 1. That the Arab Palestinians do, indeed, have a unique culture. In which case, please demonstrate. Or 2. That it doesn't matter whether or not the Arab Palestinians have a unique culture. Which door do you want?

Yes, I would agree.

Maybe my windy replies want to say that identity is made by people themselves. To impose identity upon someone else is ridiculous. To call another person gay is ridiculous unless that person has specifically identified themselves with being gay. The same for everything else.

In the UK you have your region, your county, you have the English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, many different identities within the country, and different people will identify.

In the US people find it cool to identify themselves as Irish America, African American, German American and so on. Some do, others don't. I know a woman (who happens to be nuts) who when asked if there are any Irish people in the room will stick her hand up, when she's never, ever been to Ireland. Clearly she's not Irish, but this is part of her identification of herself.

I also believe that people should have the power to form groups which govern themselves. Take the Kosovan "Albanians". I happened to turn up in Pristina a year before they gained independence from Serbia. The Serbs tried to get rid of these people, and as such they should get the power to decide who runs their bit of land. Problem was some Serbs ended up in Kosovo which they didn't identify with. Problems after problems after problems.

But you say the Palestinians don't have a unique culture.

Nor do the English. Americans speak English. Australians speak English. Americans celebrate Christmas as do the English and the Australians. The English watch TV, they play football, but so too do other countries. Of the things which you might think are English, most English people won't bother doing. Like cheese rolling.

I, as an individual, do not really identify much with the cultural aspects of my own "people". However I am still ethnically part of this group. Why? What puts me in the same cultural sphere as my own father, a man whose interests are almost totally polar opposite to my own?

I don't need to argue that the Palestinians have their own culture. It's for them to identify as something. If they choose to identify as Palestinians, then they're Palestinians. It's not for me to tell them they have no unique culture.

So, I don't choose your doors.

Apart from all that, can you name the wild crops growing in the Fertile Crescent area?

 

[P F Tinmore]

What do you mean by "Arab Palestinians don't meet the criteria for a distinct culture"?

Well, I'll clarify by saying I don't think the Arab Palestinians NEED a distinct culture in order to have rights to sovereignty and self-determination on part of that territory. Self-identification is ENOUGH. (You appear to be arguing the opposite -- that self-identification is not enough.)

But what I mean by distinct culture is exactly what you think I mean. A culture that is distinct from all other cultures. A culture which distinguishes itself from other cultures by having qualities which are unique to them. The Palestinians do not have such a thing. (There are some minor differences in Arabic dialect and some regional differences in the particular embroidery patterns on women's clothing. That's it.) They do not have a unique language. They do not have a unique religion. No unique life celebrations. No unique holidays. No unique laws. No unique history, myths. There is nothing to identify them AS Palestinian. (Other than their own self-identification).

Now, from here you can really only argue two things. 1. That the Arab Palestinians do, indeed, have a unique culture. In which case, please demonstrate. Or 2. That it doesn't matter whether or not the Arab Palestinians have a unique culture. Which door do you want?

Yes, I would agree.

Maybe my windy replies want to say that identity is made by people themselves. To impose identity upon someone else is ridiculous. To call another person gay is ridiculous unless that person has specifically identified themselves with being gay. The same for everything else.

In the UK you have your region, your county, you have the English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, many different identities within the country, and different people will identify.

In the US people find it cool to identify themselves as Irish America, African American, German American and so on. Some do, others don't. I know a woman (who happens to be nuts) who when asked if there are any Irish people in the room will stick her hand up, when she's never, ever been to Ireland. Clearly she's not Irish, but this is part of her identification of herself.

I also believe that people should have the power to form groups which govern themselves. Take the Kosovan "Albanians". I happened to turn up in Pristina a year before they gained independence from Serbia. The Serbs tried to get rid of these people, and as such they should get the power to decide who runs their bit of land. Problem was some Serbs ended up in Kosovo which they didn't identify with. Problems after problems after problems.

But you say the Palestinians don't have a unique culture.

Nor do the English. Americans speak English. Australians speak English. Americans celebrate Christmas as do the English and the Australians. The English watch TV, they play football, but so too do other countries. Of the things which you might think are English, most English people won't bother doing. Like cheese rolling.

I, as an individual, do not really identify much with the cultural aspects of my own "people". However I am still ethnically part of this group. Why? What puts me in the same cultural sphere as my own father, a man whose interests are almost totally polar opposite to my own?

I don't need to argue that the Palestinians have their own culture. It's for them to identify as something. If they choose to identify as Palestinians, then they're Palestinians. It's not for me to tell them they have no unique culture.

So, I don't choose your doors.

Apart from all that, can you name the wild crops growing in the Fertile Crescent area?

Hamas can. They have been studying and promoting "rain fed" agriculture because of the lack of water in Gaza.

 

[Mindful]

What do you mean by "Arab Palestinians don't meet the criteria for a distinct culture"?

Well, I'll clarify by saying I don't think the Arab Palestinians NEED a distinct culture in order to have rights to sovereignty and self-determination on part of that territory. Self-identification is ENOUGH. (You appear to be arguing the opposite -- that self-identification is not enough.)

But what I mean by distinct culture is exactly what you think I mean. A culture that is distinct from all other cultures. A culture which distinguishes itself from other cultures by having qualities which are unique to them. The Palestinians do not have such a thing. (There are some minor differences in Arabic dialect and some regional differences in the particular embroidery patterns on women's clothing. That's it.) They do not have a unique language. They do not have a unique religion. No unique life celebrations. No unique holidays. No unique laws. No unique history, myths. There is nothing to identify them AS Palestinian. (Other than their own self-identification).

Now, from here you can really only argue two things. 1. That the Arab Palestinians do, indeed, have a unique culture. In which case, please demonstrate. Or 2. That it doesn't matter whether or not the Arab Palestinians have a unique culture. Which door do you want?

Yes, I would agree.

Maybe my windy replies want to say that identity is made by people themselves. To impose identity upon someone else is ridiculous. To call another person gay is ridiculous unless that person has specifically identified themselves with being gay. The same for everything else.

In the UK you have your region, your county, you have the English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, many different identities within the country, and different people will identify.

In the US people find it cool to identify themselves as Irish America, African American, German American and so on. Some do, others don't. I know a woman (who happens to be nuts) who when asked if there are any Irish people in the room will stick her hand up, when she's never, ever been to Ireland. Clearly she's not Irish, but this is part of her identification of herself.

I also believe that people should have the power to form groups which govern themselves. Take the Kosovan "Albanians". I happened to turn up in Pristina a year before they gained independence from Serbia. The Serbs tried to get rid of these people, and as such they should get the power to decide who runs their bit of land. Problem was some Serbs ended up in Kosovo which they didn't identify with. Problems after problems after problems.

But you say the Palestinians don't have a unique culture.

Nor do the English. Americans speak English. Australians speak English. Americans celebrate Christmas as do the English and the Australians. The English watch TV, they play football, but so too do other countries. Of the things which you might think are English, most English people won't bother doing. Like cheese rolling.

I, as an individual, do not really identify much with the cultural aspects of my own "people". However I am still ethnically part of this group. Why? What puts me in the same cultural sphere as my own father, a man whose interests are almost totally polar opposite to my own?

I don't need to argue that the Palestinians have their own culture. It's for them to identify as something. If they choose to identify as Palestinians, then they're Palestinians. It's not for me to tell them they have no unique culture.

So, I don't choose your doors.

Apart from all that, can you name the wild crops growing in the Fertile Crescent area?

Hamas can. They have been studying and promoting "rain fed" agriculture because of the lack of water in Gaza.

But can you?

 

[fncceo]

They have been studying and promoting "rain fed" agriculture because of the lack of water in Gaza.

Hamas 'farmers' attempting to make it rain? Jewish blood?

 

[P F Tinmore]

What do you mean by "Arab Palestinians don't meet the criteria for a distinct culture"?

Well, I'll clarify by saying I don't think the Arab Palestinians NEED a distinct culture in order to have rights to sovereignty and self-determination on part of that territory. Self-identification is ENOUGH. (You appear to be arguing the opposite -- that self-identification is not enough.)

But what I mean by distinct culture is exactly what you think I mean. A culture that is distinct from all other cultures. A culture which distinguishes itself from other cultures by having qualities which are unique to them. The Palestinians do not have such a thing. (There are some minor differences in Arabic dialect and some regional differences in the particular embroidery patterns on women's clothing. That's it.) They do not have a unique language. They do not have a unique religion. No unique life celebrations. No unique holidays. No unique laws. No unique history, myths. There is nothing to identify them AS Palestinian. (Other than their own self-identification).

Now, from here you can really only argue two things. 1. That the Arab Palestinians do, indeed, have a unique culture. In which case, please demonstrate. Or 2. That it doesn't matter whether or not the Arab Palestinians have a unique culture. Which door do you want?

Yes, I would agree.

Maybe my windy replies want to say that identity is made by people themselves. To impose identity upon someone else is ridiculous. To call another person gay is ridiculous unless that person has specifically identified themselves with being gay. The same for everything else.

In the UK you have your region, your county, you have the English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, many different identities within the country, and different people will identify.

In the US people find it cool to identify themselves as Irish America, African American, German American and so on. Some do, others don't. I know a woman (who happens to be nuts) who when asked if there are any Irish people in the room will stick her hand up, when she's never, ever been to Ireland. Clearly she's not Irish, but this is part of her identification of herself.

I also believe that people should have the power to form groups which govern themselves. Take the Kosovan "Albanians". I happened to turn up in Pristina a year before they gained independence from Serbia. The Serbs tried to get rid of these people, and as such they should get the power to decide who runs their bit of land. Problem was some Serbs ended up in Kosovo which they didn't identify with. Problems after problems after problems.

But you say the Palestinians don't have a unique culture.

Nor do the English. Americans speak English. Australians speak English. Americans celebrate Christmas as do the English and the Australians. The English watch TV, they play football, but so too do other countries. Of the things which you might think are English, most English people won't bother doing. Like cheese rolling.

I, as an individual, do not really identify much with the cultural aspects of my own "people". However I am still ethnically part of this group. Why? What puts me in the same cultural sphere as my own father, a man whose interests are almost totally polar opposite to my own?

I don't need to argue that the Palestinians have their own culture. It's for them to identify as something. If they choose to identify as Palestinians, then they're Palestinians. It's not for me to tell them they have no unique culture.

So, I don't choose your doors.

Apart from all that, can you name the wild crops growing in the Fertile Crescent area?

Hamas can. They have been studying and promoting "rain fed" agriculture because of the lack of water in Gaza.

But can you?

Not really. I never worked in agriculture.

It was a follow-up to an interview colleague Maggie Schmitt and I did with the Minister of Agriculture, Mohammad Al-Agha. In consultation with dozens of international and local NGOs, the Gaza Ministry has drawn up an impressive “ten-year plan” aimed at reducing Gaza’s dependence on imported Israeli produce, incorporating organic farming on a wider scale, and generally “helping Gaza help itself” through a return to more sustainable agricultural practices (such as relying more on rain-fed crops rather than cash cropping for export which involves wasteful amounts of water and an abundance of pesticides, and is subject to the whim of Israeli authorities and their punitive border closure).

Gaza Mom » Gaza; settlements; Israel; Hamas; agriculture​

 

[Mindful]

Well, I'll clarify by saying I don't think the Arab Palestinians NEED a distinct culture in order to have rights to sovereignty and self-determination on part of that territory. Self-identification is ENOUGH. (You appear to be arguing the opposite -- that self-identification is not enough.)

But what I mean by distinct culture is exactly what you think I mean. A culture that is distinct from all other cultures. A culture which distinguishes itself from other cultures by having qualities which are unique to them. The Palestinians do not have such a thing. (There are some minor differences in Arabic dialect and some regional differences in the particular embroidery patterns on women's clothing. That's it.) They do not have a unique language. They do not have a unique religion. No unique life celebrations. No unique holidays. No unique laws. No unique history, myths. There is nothing to identify them AS Palestinian. (Other than their own self-identification).

Now, from here you can really only argue two things. 1. That the Arab Palestinians do, indeed, have a unique culture. In which case, please demonstrate. Or 2. That it doesn't matter whether or not the Arab Palestinians have a unique culture. Which door do you want?

Yes, I would agree.

Maybe my windy replies want to say that identity is made by people themselves. To impose identity upon someone else is ridiculous. To call another person gay is ridiculous unless that person has specifically identified themselves with being gay. The same for everything else.

In the UK you have your region, your county, you have the English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, many different identities within the country, and different people will identify.

In the US people find it cool to identify themselves as Irish America, African American, German American and so on. Some do, others don't. I know a woman (who happens to be nuts) who when asked if there are any Irish people in the room will stick her hand up, when she's never, ever been to Ireland. Clearly she's not Irish, but this is part of her identification of herself.

I also believe that people should have the power to form groups which govern themselves. Take the Kosovan "Albanians". I happened to turn up in Pristina a year before they gained independence from Serbia. The Serbs tried to get rid of these people, and as such they should get the power to decide who runs their bit of land. Problem was some Serbs ended up in Kosovo which they didn't identify with. Problems after problems after problems.

But you say the Palestinians don't have a unique culture.

Nor do the English. Americans speak English. Australians speak English. Americans celebrate Christmas as do the English and the Australians. The English watch TV, they play football, but so too do other countries. Of the things which you might think are English, most English people won't bother doing. Like cheese rolling.

I, as an individual, do not really identify much with the cultural aspects of my own "people". However I am still ethnically part of this group. Why? What puts me in the same cultural sphere as my own father, a man whose interests are almost totally polar opposite to my own?

I don't need to argue that the Palestinians have their own culture. It's for them to identify as something. If they choose to identify as Palestinians, then they're Palestinians. It's not for me to tell them they have no unique culture.

So, I don't choose your doors.

Apart from all that, can you name the wild crops growing in the Fertile Crescent area?

Hamas can. They have been studying and promoting "rain fed" agriculture because of the lack of water in Gaza.

But can you?

Not really. I never worked in agriculture.

It was a follow-up to an interview colleague Maggie Schmitt and I did with the Minister of Agriculture, Mohammad Al-Agha. In consultation with dozens of international and local NGOs, the Gaza Ministry has drawn up an impressive “ten-year plan” aimed at reducing Gaza’s dependence on imported Israeli produce, incorporating organic farming on a wider scale, and generally “helping Gaza help itself” through a return to more sustainable agricultural practices (such as relying more on rain-fed crops rather than cash cropping for export which involves wasteful amounts of water and an abundance of pesticides, and is subject to the whim of Israeli authorities and their punitive border closure).

Gaza Mom » Gaza; settlements; Israel; Hamas; agriculture​

I'm not talking about Hamas or Gaza. There are plenty of threads for you to peddle your favourite hobby horses.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Still transforming the land

Southern Israel Blooms With Fields Harnessing Solar Energy

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Mindful (of rocks) is a Zionist loon who believes the Hebe criminals living in Israel can do no wrong. No matter how much they lie, cheat, steal, and murder. ....

Just a matter of time till you showed up, displaying your usual scintillating anti Semitic ignorance. Every post identical to your last.

You're disqualified.

whatever you says paid shill for Israel.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Just a matter of time till you showed up, displaying your usual scintillating anti Semitic ignorance.

Anti-zionist ...... Yes

Anti-semitic ..... Nope

Could have fooled me the fact you are a hypocrite troll who ignores facts that tom brady and the belicheat are lying criminals.

wish this was coming from someone that wasnt a troll because this good post is what these shills of Israel cant comprehend.

 

[Mindful]

Just a matter of time till you showed up, displaying your usual scintillating anti Semitic ignorance.

Anti-zionist ...... Yes

Anti-semitic ..... Nope

Could have fooled me the fact you are a hypocrite troll who ignores facts that tom brady and the belicheat are lying criminals.

wish this was coming from someone that wasnt a troll because this good post is what these shills of Israel cant comprehend.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Just a matter of time till you showed up, displaying your usual scintillating anti Semitic ignorance.

Anti-zionist ...... Yes

Anti-semitic ..... Nope

Could have fooled me the fact you are a hypocrite troll who ignores facts that tom brady and the belicheat are lying criminals.

wish this was coming from someone that wasnt a troll because this good post is what these shills of Israel cant comprehend.

Israel promoting agriculture.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Just a matter of time till you showed up, displaying your usual scintillating anti Semitic ignorance.

Anti-zionist ...... Yes

Anti-semitic ..... Nope

Could have fooled me the fact you are a hypocrite troll who ignores facts that tom brady and the belicheat are lying criminals.

wish this was coming from someone that wasnt a troll because this good post is what these shills of Israel cant comprehend.

Israel promoting agriculture.

Of course you are not giving the full story. Go find it and post it here. Let us see your power of research.

Was it on "Palestinian Land" or was it State land?

So on and so forth.

Breaking the law has consequences.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Just a matter of time till you showed up, displaying your usual scintillating anti Semitic ignorance.

Anti-zionist ...... Yes

Anti-semitic ..... Nope

Could have fooled me the fact you are a hypocrite troll who ignores facts that tom brady and the belicheat are lying criminals.

wish this was coming from someone that wasnt a troll because this good post is what these shills of Israel cant comprehend.

Israel promoting agriculture.

Of course you are not giving the full story. Go find it and post it here. Let us see your power of research.

Was it on "Palestinian Land" or was it State land?

So on and so forth.

Breaking the law has consequences.

Israeli "state land" in Palestine?

Interesting legal concept. This sounds like another stupid Israeli talking point.

 

[Mindful]

Anti-zionist ...... Yes

Anti-semitic ..... Nope

Could have fooled me the fact you are a hypocrite troll who ignores facts that tom brady and the belicheat are lying criminals.

wish this was coming from someone that wasnt a troll because this good post is what these shills of Israel cant comprehend.

Israel promoting agriculture.

Of course you are not giving the full story. Go find it and post it here. Let us see your power of research.

Was it on "Palestinian Land" or was it State land?

So on and so forth.

Breaking the law has consequences.

Israeli "state land" in Palestine?

Interesting legal concept. This sounds like another stupid Israeli talking point.

I don't know how you could involve yourself with "stupid talking points".

 

[P F Tinmore]

Could have fooled me the fact you are a hypocrite troll who ignores facts that tom brady and the belicheat are lying criminals.

wish this was coming from someone that wasnt a troll because this good post is what these shills of Israel cant comprehend.

Israel promoting agriculture.

Of course you are not giving the full story. Go find it and post it here. Let us see your power of research.

Was it on "Palestinian Land" or was it State land?

So on and so forth.

Breaking the law has consequences.

Israeli "state land" in Palestine?

Interesting legal concept. This sounds like another stupid Israeli talking point.

I don't know how you could involve yourself with "stupid talking points".

I am bombarded by stupid Israeli talking points all of the time.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Anti-zionist ...... Yes

Anti-semitic ..... Nope

Could have fooled me the fact you are a hypocrite troll who ignores facts that tom brady and the belicheat are lying criminals.

wish this was coming from someone that wasnt a troll because this good post is what these shills of Israel cant comprehend.

Israel promoting agriculture.

Of course you are not giving the full story. Go find it and post it here. Let us see your power of research.

Was it on "Palestinian Land" or was it State land?

So on and so forth.

Breaking the law has consequences.

Israeli "state land" in Palestine?

Interesting legal concept. This sounds like another stupid Israeli talking point.

You do not even know if the land is in Sovereign Israel or in Area C of the West Bank

There is an agreement with the PA signed by Arafat, called the Oslo Accords.

Both parties must follow the agreements set in those Accords.

The Arabs choose to built or plant on Israeli designated areas, the buildings will be destroyed and so will the agriculture. The Arabs are stealing Israeli land agreed to in the Oslo Accord.

Go peddle your "Israel does not exist (therefore it is all "stolen "Palestinian Land " ) somewhere" else.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You do not even know if the land is in Sovereign Israel or in Area C of the West Bank

It doesn't matter. It is not Israel.

 

[Sixties Fan]

You do not even know if the land is in Sovereign Israel or in Area C of the West Bank

It doesn't matter. It is not Israel.

Not to a mental midget like yourself. Or the mental midgets of Islam who want to destroy Israel.
And since Israel and most Jews are aware of all the mental midgets in the world since 1920 , it has made sure it has the strongest military in the region.

So....there.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You do not even know if the land is in Sovereign Israel or in Area C of the West Bank

It doesn't matter. It is not Israel.

Not to a mental midget like yourself. Or the mental midgets of Islam who want to destroy Israel.
And since Israel and most Jews are aware of all the mental midgets in the world since 1920 , it has made sure it has the strongest military in the region.

So....there.

So, where is Israel? Got a map that does not have those fake armistice line borders?

 

[Mindful]

Israel promoting agriculture.

Of course you are not giving the full story. Go find it and post it here. Let us see your power of research.

Was it on "Palestinian Land" or was it State land?

So on and so forth.

Breaking the law has consequences.

Israeli "state land" in Palestine?

Interesting legal concept. This sounds like another stupid Israeli talking point.

I don't know how you could involve yourself with "stupid talking points".

I am bombarded by stupid Israeli talking points all of the time.

You're the one doing the bombarding.

I have no interest in anything you have to say.

Don't post to me.