keys to the kingdom

[hobelim]

You refuse to believe that Yeshua, the Son of God, could stop a storm with a word, heal a blind man's eyesight, bring a dead person back to life.

Wrong. I believe all of those things. Calming the storm was not about controlling the weather. It was about stopping an angry mob gathering to lynch Jesus and his disciples because everywhere they went Jesus pissed people off. Healing the blind was a healing of perception not sight, and raising the dead, who died as a consequence for defying the Law, was never about corpses coming to life. You have been mislead by your own unrestrained imagination.

 

[hobelim]

And in your version of reality, the creator doesn't have control of the creation.

No. I accept the ACTUAL REALITY the Creator has created the same way it has been for all life forms ever since life began and first crawled out of pond scum. Is that bad, really evil?

"God is not a man, so he does not lie; he is not human , so he does not change his mind."

I do not believe in a capricious and puerile petty tyrant, a trinity obsessed with diet, fashion, and the sexual preferences of consenting adults that diddled a virgin to become a mangod.

Sorry. I would rather be crucified upside down.

 

[hadit]

No. I accept the ACTUAL REALITY the Creator has created the same way it has been for all life forms ever since life began and first crawled out of pond scum. Is that bad, really evil?

"God is not a man, so he does not lie; he is not human , so he does not change his mind."

He doesn't? Should we look at how Moses persuaded Him to not destroy the Israelites because of their sin? Should we look at how Moses' wife persuaded God to not kill Moses because He had not been circumcised? I mean, you're supposed to know these things. Here is where you go off and invent some completely different interpretation to get around the again plain writing of the Scriptures.

I do not believe in a capricious and puerile petty tyrant, a trinity obsessed with diet, fashion, and the sexual preferences of consenting adults that diddled a virgin to become a mangod.

No one does. That is not who God is.

Sorry. I would rather be crucified upside down.

Oh, I see, you believe that once God created all things, He said He would never change anything. If that's the case, what happened when the ground was cursed and man would have to sweat to eat? That was a fundamental change to creation.

 

[BreezeWood]

Yet I do not attempt to supply my own twisted rewrite of Scripture to maintain a heresy. No, God did not hide His truth behind lies for thousands of years, pretending that His word did not mean what it said.

true, that is the desert dwellers who wrote the 4th century christian and judaism bibles who claim heavenly personifications where there were non and false commandments of their liking destroying what were on stone tablets claimed heavenly by the liar moses et al leaving everything written in those documents subject to interpretation in search for the truth.

 

[hobelim]

He doesn't? Should we look at how Moses persuaded Him to not destroy the Israelites because of their sin? Should we look at how Moses' wife persuaded God to not kill Moses because He had not been circumcised? I mean, you're supposed to know these things. Here is where you go off and invent some completely different interpretation to get around the again plain writing of the Scriptures.

No one does. That is not who God is.

Oh, I see, you believe that once God created all things, He said He would never change anything. If that's the case, what happened when the ground was cursed and man would have to sweat to eat? That was a fundamental change to creation.

Wow.


And some people don't "believe" they died in the very same day they first set aside the Law of God to worship the spawn of a Roman trinity, the Antichrist. Copra sanctum! Imagine that!

 

[hadit]

Wrong. I believe all of those things. Calming the storm was not about controlling the weather. It was about stopping an angry mob gathering to lynch Jesus and his disciples because everywhere they went Jesus pissed people off.

Really? You think the mob was running around on the lake, chasing the boat? How odd. Cute, but really odd. See, I knew you could come up with something creative to get around the clear text of Scripture.

Healing the blind was a healing of perception not sight,

No, the authorities saw the man Jesus gave sight to and knew that he had been blind since birth, which is why they asked him who had healed him. If it was only about perception, they wouldn't have asked that.

The lepers He healed had to go to the priests to be declared clean so they could integrate back into society. Of course, you ignore all of that because you don't want to admit Yeshua, the Son of God, had power over disease and death.

and raising the dead, who died as a consequence for defying the Law, was never about corpses coming to life.

Of course it is. Lazarus' family was grieving his loss and even worried that his body would stink after 4 days in the tomb. You have to throw out the entire story and replace it to believe what you believe.

You have been mislead by your own unrestrained imagination.

I am able to read what the Scriptures actually say. Apparently, you are not.

 

[hobelim]

Really? You think the mob was running around on the lake, chasing the boat? How odd. Cute, but really odd.

The gathering storm clouds represents something that has nothing to do with the weather. The raging sea represents something that has nothing to do with the water. And the boat they were on, including Jesus walking on water, has nothing to do with a boat or Jesus being a sea of Galilee pedestrian.

What is really odd is you "believing" that seasoned fishermen were afraid of the weather.

I bet you believe that Elijah was literally "taken up" in a whirlwind before dying without having an inkling that "taken up" is just a euphemism for Elijah being killed by an angry lynch mob.

 

[hobelim]

I am able to read what the Scriptures actually say. Apparently, you are not.

Not so fast sparkie.

I am able to read what the scriptures actually say. For instance, it is written that Jesus said that "believers" immune to the poison of serpents would be doing what he was doing; giving sight to the blind, raising the dead, curing the paralyzed, healing the sick, casting out demons, etc. True? If you are a believer when in your entire life have you done any of that?

Never? Hmmm.

On the other hand, with only a few choice WORDS, the resurrected dead who were giving life from the revelation I received from God through LOGOS are all standing upright WATCHING.

 

[hobelim]

If that's the case, what happened when the ground was cursed and man would have to sweat to eat?

God said to Adam, the sweat of his brow thinking would only produce thorns and thistles for the rest of his days. His mind would never bear fruit pleasing to the eye and good to eat.

A terrifying fate you seem to enjoy, being on earth without the ability to understand anything. Don't worry, I get it. Running around like a chicken without a head must be really exhilarating

... for a few seconds.

That was a fundamental change to creation.

Nah.

It was Adam sent back into "the dust of the earth" eating bread baked on human dung, for the rest of his days. Just like the Nachash was condemned to crawl on its belly and eat dust.

Same as it ever was.

 

[hobelim]

Of course it is. Lazarus' family was grieving his loss and even worried that his body would stink after 4 days in the tomb. You have to throw out the entire story and replace it to believe what you believe.

Lazarus was losing faith in Jesus, dying. When Jesus arrived Lazarus was dead, meaning he returned to a Pharisaic ritual cleansing process (what Jesus called a whitewashed tomb) in which a person repenting for 'sinning' is kept in a windowless room 7 days without bathing.

After 4 days his body stank. Go figure!

Jesus arrived, called out to Lazarus wallowing in his own filth and he came out. A miracle!

Jesus told his disciples to remove his 'grave bindings' which is telling them to deprogram Lazarus from the deadly poison that was injected into his mind that killed his faith in Jesus.

Be opened and see.

Without adding subtracting or changing a single word a HIDDEN story is revealed. A genuine miracle, in full view of believers and unbelievers, demonstrating great power and authority!

How is it that you, a so called believer who loves Jesus, don't know the right course to take?

 

[ding]

No. I accept the ACTUAL REALITY the Creator has created the same way it has been for all life forms ever since life began and first crawled out of pond scum. Is that bad, really evil?

"God is not a man, so he does not lie; he is not human , so he does not change his mind."

I do not believe in a capricious and puerile petty tyrant, a trinity obsessed with diet, fashion, and the sexual preferences of consenting adults that diddled a virgin to become a mangod.

Sorry. I would rather be crucified upside down.

Then you do not believe with God anything is possible.

 

[ding]

I accept the ACTUAL REALITY the Creator has created the same way it has been for all life forms ever since life began and first crawled out of pond scum. Is that bad, really evil?

Yes, that is bad. You don't believe God can do anything.

 

[ding]

I do not believe in a capricious and puerile petty tyrant,

Neither do I. That's why I believe the OT was men seeking God, who crafted narratives that God was on their side. The NT is God seeking men.

 

[hadit]

Lazarus was losing faith in Jesus, dying.

No, he was physically sick and physically dying. That's made plainly clear in Scripture. Get back to me when you can quote Scripture and say that it simply means what it says, not what you make up about it.

When Jesus arrived Lazarus was dead, meaning he returned to a Pharisaic ritual cleansing process (what Jesus called a whitewashed tomb) in which a person repenting for 'sinning' is kept in a windowless room 7 days without bathing.

Mary stated her belief that, had Jesus arrived sooner Lazarus would not have died, and the family would not have been in mourning. The family would not have been publicly in mourning if Lazarus was just undergoing a ritual. Lazarus' family sent for Jesus, saying that Lazarus was very sick, not that he was losing faith in Jesus, that's just something you made up.

After 4 days his body stank. Go figure!

Yes, because his body was actually dead and decomposing. That's probably one of the reasons Jesus waited as long as He did, to prove that Lazarus had actually died and that Jesus, being the Son of God, had power even over death. Amazing, isn't it, that the creator of all things can control His creation? Also amazing that you think God created something He could not control.

God gave the curse of physical death, and He can lift it if He wants to. Tell us, what spiritual death do you claim Jesus was in that He had to rise from? What sin did He commit that He had to be resurrected from? You claim resurrection from physical death is impossible and that every citation in Scripture refers only to spiritual death. Well, Scripture makes it clear that Jesus raised Himself from the dead, so tell us what spiritual death did Yeshua suffer that He had to be raised from?

This should be entertaining.

Jesus arrived, called out to Lazarus wallowing in his own filth and he came out. A miracle!

So, it is your contention that all it took for Lazarus to believe in Jesus again was for Jesus to come to his house and call out to him? Kind of a wishy-washy guy, wasn't he?

Jesus told his disciples to remove his 'grave bindings' which is telling them to deprogram Lazarus from the deadly poison that was injected into his mind that killed his faith in Jesus.

Nope, that's just something you made up. Notice something with us, will you? On one hand you claim that Lazarus' belief system is so weak that Jesus only had to call his name to get him to believe in Him again, while on the other you claim he had to be deprogrammed. Deprogramming is not a simple or easy task, and certainly not something Jesus' disciples would have been trained to do. See how you get tangled in your own nonsense?

Be opened and see.

Without adding subtracting or changing a single word a HIDDEN story is revealed. A genuine miracle, in full view of believers and unbelievers, demonstrating great power and authority!

Easy to do when you just make up a bunch of stuff that's not in there at all. We could take any written narrative and do that. All you have to do is say, "What this really means is", and viola! A hidden story appears. Real convincing there.

How is it that you, a so called believer who loves Jesus, don't know the right course to take?

I do know the right course; it's laid out quite plainly in Scripture. And once again, you cast aside what is in front of you, desperately crafting a nonsense narrative to maintain your comfortable delusion. Tell us, do you do all this because Scripture as plainly written leaves you feeling convicted of sin and knowing that your only recourse is something you will not do?

Or are you now going to try to convince us that you are free from all sin?

 

[hobelim]

No, he was physically sick and physically dying.

And you know this how? In reality being "sick" can have many meanings other than physical, like sick and tired or sick in the head. Am I telling you something you didn't already know?

That's made plainly clear in Scripture.

No. It is not made plainly clear in scripture what sickness Lazarus was suffering from. LIAR.

What is made clear in scripture is that the consequence for failing to comply with the WAY Jesus taught to follow Divine Law, which is the same WAY that Moses taught to follow the Law that was lost to time for 1000 years before Jesus came, is death, a curse. In the context of scripture the subject of "the death", a curse, is not and never was about biological death.

So it really doesn't matter who wrote what when. The truth remains. No one ever waltzed out of their tomb after decomposing for four days. Because you pretend to believe that BS YOU DIED in the very day you first got down on your knees to worship and pray to a Roman trinity that became a sacrificial reality defying ascetic mangod, the Antichrist, whose mark is tattooed right in the middle of your uncircumcised forehead and wear proudly like an amulet.

Lazarus emerging from that Pharisaic tomb was as miraculous as if you heard the voice of the Son of God and came out of your fetid Roman tomb full of corruption and dead mens bones. The habitation of every foul and loathsome beast, bird, and creepy thing that creeps.

 

[hadit]

And you know this how? In reality being "sick" can have many meanings other than physical, like sick and tired or sick in the head. Am I telling you something you didn't already know?

If someone calls Jesus because their brother is sick, they don't mean sick and tired, they don't mean sick in the head, they mean he is physically sick.

No. It is not made plainly clear in scripture what sickness Lazarus was suffering from. LIAR.

What is made clear in scripture is that the consequence for failing to comply with the WAY Jesus taught to follow Divine Law, which is the same WAY that Moses taught to follow the Law that was lost to time for 1000 years before Jesus came, is death, a curse. In the context of scripture the subject of "the death", a curse, is not and never was about biological death.

So it really doesn't matter who wrote what when. The truth remains. No one ever waltzed out of their tomb after decomposing for four days.

Still can't accept that the creator controls the creation?

Because you pretend to believe that BS YOU DIED in the very day you first got down on your knees to worship and pray to a Roman trinity that became a sacrificial reality defying ascetic mangod, the Antichrist, whose mark is tattooed right in the middle of your uncircumcised forehead and wear proudly like an amulet.

Lazarus emerging from that Pharisaic tomb was as miraculous as if you heard the voice of the Son of God and came out of your fetid Roman tomb full of corruption and dead mens bones. The habitation of every foul and loathsome beast, bird, and creepy thing that creeps.

Dude, you can't even account for Lazarus' family asking Jesus to come because he. was. sick.

Not, "he stopped believing in you", not, "he's having a faith crisis", not, "he locked himself in his room and won't come out or take a bath". No, it was “Lord, the one you love is sick.” Let's look at what the Scripture actually says, since you don't seem very comfortable doing that:

17 On his arrival, Jesus found that Lazarus had already been in the tomb for four days.

Or, as you like to pretend, he hadn't had a bath in 4 days. How often did 1st century Jews take baths, anyway? You know, because they had to carry all the water they used from the well to their houses. You claim they were worried about him stinking after 4 days. What's your source that says they took baths more often than that? And no, you just making it up is not acceptable.

18 Now Bethany was less than two miles from Jerusalem, 19 and many Jews had come to Martha and Mary to comfort them in the loss of their brother.

Tell us, you who claims that the Bible doesn't mean what it says and only you can figure it out, why would "many Jews" "come to Martha and Mary to comfort them in the loss of their brother", if the only problem was that he stopped believing in Jesus and wouldn't take a bath?

20 When Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went out to meet him, but Mary stayed at home.

21 “Lord,” Martha said to Jesus, “if you had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 But I know that even now God will give you whatever you ask.”

23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”

24 Martha answered, “I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

27 “Yes, Lord,” she replied, “I believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

Clearly, clearly, they are talking about physical death of the body. See, you claim that Lazarus was lapsing in his faith, yet why would his faith be renewed in the resurrection? Answer, it would not be, as then is judgement. You are pretending you know better than his actual family who lived with him in order to maintain your narrative. No, he was dead and gone and Jesus brought him back.

 

[hobelim]

Clearly, clearly, they are talking about physical death of the body. See, you claim that Lazarus was lapsing in his faith, yet why would his faith be renewed in the resurrection? Answer, it would not be, as then is judgement. You are pretending you know better than his actual family who lived with him in order to maintain your narrative. No, he was dead and gone and Jesus brought him back.

Jesus' brother Lazarus "was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, but now he is found."

So the party began. Woo hoo! Yippie yi yo ki-yay mofo!

"This, he told me, is the curse that goes out over all the land. For by the writing on one side every thief shall be swept clean away and by the writing on the other side every perjurer shall be swept clean away. I have sent it out, the Lord of Hosts has said, and it shall ENTER the house of the thief and the house of the man who has perjured himself in my name. It shall stay inside that house and demolish it timbers, and stones, and all." Zech 5:3,4

"And as soon as Judas received the bread, Satan ENTERED him." Jn 13:27

 

[hadit]

Jesus' brother Lazarus "was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, but now he is found."

So the party began. Woo hoo! Yippie yi yo ki-yay mofo!

And there's your admission that you are in a corner you that cannot get out of. Don't think it escaped notice that you did not address what I quoted from Scripture. Tell us, why would the Jews gather to mourn Lazarus doing a Pharisaical procedure and say that he was actually sick when he wasn't? You didn't deal with that.

"This, he told me, is the curse that goes out over all the land. For by the writing on one side every thief shall be swept clean away and by the writing on the other side every perjurer shall be swept clean away. I have sent it out, the Lord of Hosts has said, and it shall ENTER the house of the thief and the house of the man who has perjured himself in my name. It shall stay inside that house and demolish it timbers, and stones, and all." Zech 5:3,4

Quoting random verses now? I think you grabbed the wrong macro to generate your quote because that does not relate to Yeshua raising Lazarus from physical death.

"And as soon as Judas received the bread, Satan ENTERED him." Jn 13:27

And Judas killed himself, physically. And Lazarus was physically dead.

 

[ding]

And you know this how? In reality being "sick" can have many meanings other than physical, like sick and tired or sick in the head. Am I telling you something you didn't already know?


No. It is not made plainly clear in scripture what sickness Lazarus was suffering from. LIAR.

What is made clear in scripture is that the consequence for failing to comply with the WAY Jesus taught to follow Divine Law, which is the same WAY that Moses taught to follow the Law that was lost to time for 1000 years before Jesus came, is death, a curse. In the context of scripture the subject of "the death", a curse, is not and never was about biological death.

So it really doesn't matter who wrote what when. The truth remains. No one ever waltzed out of their tomb after decomposing for four days. Because you pretend to believe that BS YOU DIED in the very day you first got down on your knees to worship and pray to a Roman trinity that became a sacrificial reality defying ascetic mangod, the Antichrist, whose mark is tattooed right in the middle of your uncircumcised forehead and wear proudly like an amulet.

Lazarus emerging from that Pharisaic tomb was as miraculous as if you heard the voice of the Son of God and came out of your fetid Roman tomb full of corruption and dead mens bones. The habitation of every foul and loathsome beast, bird, and creepy thing that creeps.

That's why it was a really big deal when Jesus did it.



The OT was men seeking God. Lot's of Jewish embellishment. The NT was God seeking men. No embellishment at all. Even you admitted that God sent Jesus. Remember?

 

[ding]

Jesus' brother Lazarus "was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, but now he is found."

So the party began. Woo hoo! Yippie yi yo ki-yay mofo!

"This, he told me, is the curse that goes out over all the land. For by the writing on one side every thief shall be swept clean away and by the writing on the other side every perjurer shall be swept clean away. I have sent it out, the Lord of Hosts has said, and it shall ENTER the house of the thief and the house of the man who has perjured himself in my name. It shall stay inside that house and demolish it timbers, and stones, and all." Zech 5:3,4

"And as soon as Judas received the bread, Satan ENTERED him." Jn 13:27

Sophistry.