keys to the kingdom

The many faces of hobelim.

1. The gospels are a roman conspiracy.
2. The gospels are just metaphors.
3. Disciples had dreams that Jesus had his reward in heaven so they decided to be persecuted, imprisoned and put to death for it.

Sophistry.
 
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Additionally... you need to pick a lane.
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I'm sorry that you can't seem to follow logical reasoning.

Not really. its hysterical. Especially since you claim to be "SAVED" (by sinning). Derp.

Because according to you the gospels were a roman conspiracy. Now you are arguing they weren't. Textbook sophistry.
Ahem. Pay attention. The Roman conspiracy is about the superstitious interpretations of the written texts which demonstrate complete ignorance about the figurative language of the prophets used for thousands of years by highly intelligent and dedicated Jewish people.

They used "the power of death" a curse, for defying Divine Law to subjugate the nations. As if worshipping a trinity wasn't enough, they convince believers to religiously desecrate the WORDS of Jesus, teaching from God, as an open expression of love and devotion. WTF. :cuckoo:

There is a hidden story in every fantastical claim. A hidden story even in "the temptation."

Would you like me to show it to you? Be warned. You will not like it, but others will laugh.

You know. People who haven't sold their souls to a devil for a hefty price and remain sane.
 
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Ahem. Pay attention.
I am paying attention. That's your problem.
The roman conspiracy is about the superstitious interpretations of the written texts which demonstrate complete ignorance about the figurative language of the prophets used for thousands of years by highly intelligent and dedicate Jewish people.
The texts are straightforward. The texts make a concerted and deliberate effort to portray the miracles performed by Christ as historical events. No interpretation is needed. Why were the texts written to make a concerted and deliberate effort to portray the miracle performed by Christ as historical events if they were just metaphors?
There is a hidden story in every fantastical claim. A hidden story even in the account of the temptation.
There's nothing hidden at all. It's an historical account.
Would you like for me to show it to you?
Why would anyone want to see more sophistry from you?
 
You know. People who haven't sold their souls to a devil for a hefty price and remain sane.
You don't believe in the devil. You don't believe in anything supernatural. This is yet another example of your sophistry.
 
There's nothing hidden at all. It's an historical account.
OK.

Here is what actually happened when Jesus was tempted by the devil while living in the wilderness (beyond the jurisdiction of Jewish law) among the wild beasts, (the Romans), presumably doing what wild beasts do in the wilderness.

Jesus was not a lonely ascetic having auditory and visual hallucinations with wildlife in a desert. He openly ran around partying with sinners and prostitutes like it was 1969 and was always seen in bad company with all sorts of bad characters. Thats the historical account.

When I was living in the wilderness among the wild beasts doing what wild beasts do in the wilderness I was tempted by a devil, a descendant of the talking serpent of old, who tried to get me to "confess" that I was a worthless piece of sinning shit, beg God to forgive me for being human, and get down on my knees to worship the Antichrist as my God and savior. I asked myself, "What would Jesus do?" So I said FUH Q and he fucked off and disappeared.

A miracle!
 
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OK.

Here is what actually happened whenJesus was tempted by the devil while living in the wilderness (outside of Jewish law) among the wild beasts, (the Romans), presumably doing what wild beasts do in the wilderness.

Jesus was not a lonely ascetic having auditory and visual hallucinations by himself with wildlife in a desert. He ran around partying with sinners and prostitutes like it was 1969 and was always seen in bad company with all sorts of bad characters. Thats the historical account.

When I was living in the wilderness among the wild beasts doing what wild beasts do in the wilderness I was tempted by a devil, a descendant of the talking serpent of old, who tried to get me to "confess" that I was a worthless piece of sinning shit, beg God to forgive me for being human, and get down on my knees to worship the Antichrist as my God and savior. I asked myself, "What would Jesus do?" So I said FUH Q and he fucked off and disappeared.

A miracle!
Sophistry.
 
OK.

Here is what actually happened when Jesus was tempted by the devil while living in the wilderness (beyond the jurisdiction of Jewish law) among the wild beasts, (the Romans), presumably doing what wild beasts do in the wilderness.

Jesus was not a lonely ascetic having auditory and visual hallucinations with wildlife in a desert. He openly ran around partying with sinners and prostitutes like it was 1969 and was always seen in bad company with all sorts of bad characters. Thats the historical account.

When I was living in the wilderness among the wild beasts doing what wild beasts do in the wilderness I was tempted by a devil, a descendant of the talking serpent of old, who tried to get me to "confess" that I was a worthless piece of sinning shit, beg God to forgive me for being human, and get down on my knees to worship the Antichrist as my God and savior. I asked myself, "What would Jesus do?" So I said FUH Q and he fucked off and disappeared.

A miracle!
The gospels make a concerted, deliberate effort to present the miracles of Jesus as verifiable historical events. They achieve this not by using modern academic historiography, but by embedding the supernatural within the specific geographical, political, and cultural realities of the first-century Roman world. The gospel authors build this "historical" framework in several key ways. The authors anchor the miracles to concrete historical eras, aligning them with the reigns of known political leaders. For instance, Luke opens his Gospel (and later the Book of Acts) by explicitly dating the beginning of this miraculous ministry to the rule of specific figures like Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate, and Herod Antipas. Miracle accounts are deeply localized, tying extraordinary events to real, verifiable landmarks. The authors mention specific towns (Capernaum, Cana, Bethsaida), bodies of water (the Sea of Galilee), and public locations (the Pool of Bethesda or the Temple in Jerusalem), inviting readers to verify the settings. The miracles are overwhelmingly described as public events rather than private, secret myths. Jesus heals in crowded synagogues, restores sight in bustling city streets, and feeds thousands of people in open fields. The gospels emphasize that these acts were witnessed by large, sometimes hostile, crowds. The authors routinely point to the physical, undeniable transformations of the people involved. The blind can see, the paralyzed are walking, and the dead are raised, creating empirical effects that others—including his opponents—could directly observe. Crucially, the gospels document the reactions of Jesus’s contemporary critics. Rather than denying that the events took place, the religious authorities of the time are portrayed as attributing the power to dark forces or sorcery (e.g., claiming he cast out demons by the power of Beelzebub). The gospel authors deliberately wrote their narratives as a factual, historical record to ground their theological claims about Jesus in actual space, time, and human history.
 
He doesn't have any. He is only here to bash others.
And to re-imagine a scripture account as what "really" happened as dreams. Think of having a dream of Jesus explaining all of scripture to you as he walked with you on the road to Emmaus. Then, after the meal, you walking back to Jerusalem. Dreams are seldom so well organized, not to mention spending another day walking back to where you began because you just had to immediately tell your dream to a friend(s).
 
And to re-imagine a scripture account as what "really" happened as dreams. Think of having a dream of Jesus explaining all of scripture to you as he walked with you on the road to Emmaus. Then, after the meal, you walking back to Jerusalem. Dreams are seldom so well organized, not to mention spending another day walking back to where you began because you just had to immediately tell your dream to a friend(s).
Sophistry is the use of clever, deceptive, or superficially plausible reasoning that is actually unsound or meant to mislead. It prioritizes rhetorical persuasion and "winning" a debate over the actual pursuit of truth.

Hobelim's arguments aren't that clever.
 

keys to the kingdom​


Jesus Christ is the Door that leads to God's Kingdom. There is no other way into the Kingdom but through Jesus Christ. The "keys" to the door are faith and belief.

Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
 
I have said this before: If one feels he must bash the beliefs/faith of others in order to make a case for his own beliefs/faith, he is on very shaky ground. Your beliefs/faith must be able to stand on their own without bashing any other belief/faith--or the people who follow that faith.

ridiculous ...

no one is bashing the beliefs of others, they are pointing out the forgeries lies and fallacies of ill conceived existing religions whether believed in by an individual or not and is purely circumstantial to that individual who may support the anomalies.
 
There is no other way into the Kingdom but through Jesus Christ.

so when the desert bibles no longer exist, being man made - there will be no way for a free spirit to enter the everlasting ...

or simply there has never been or ever will be made by the heavens a messiah to help one group of people over another or for any reason that would circumvent the true path, self determination for a free spirit to do so to persist accordingly in the everlasting by their own endeavor.
 
Jesus Christ is the Door that leads to God's Kingdom. There is no other way into the Kingdom but through Jesus Christ. The "keys" to the door are faith and belief.
To this I will add (even emphasize) obedience.

John 3:16 famous verse, "For God so loved the world that he gave* his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life." The Hebrew/Aramaic etymology of 'belief' emphasizes trust that builds one life on that belief. Continue reading John, Chapter 3, and we see this emphasized, in verses 19-21.

And this is the verdict,n that the light came into the world, but people preferred darkness to light, because their works were evil.
For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come toward the light, so that his works might not be exposed.
But whoever lives the truth comes to the light, so that his works may be clearly seen as done in God.


Personally, I loathe the way John 3:18 (Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God) is thrown at people of different faiths/religions--particularly at Jews. John introduces Jesus as the Word of God. Jews believe the Word of God and, this to the extent, they obey the word of God.

Today's use/understanding of belief has been reduced to a mere opinion or supposition as it has no empirical (physical, measurable) proof.
 
To this I will add (even emphasize) obedience.

John 3:16 famous verse, "For God so loved the world that he gave* his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life." The Hebrew/Aramaic etymology of 'belief' emphasizes trust that builds one life on that belief. Continue reading John, Chapter 3, and we see this emphasized, in verses 19-21.

And this is the verdict,n that the light came into the world, but people preferred darkness to light, because their works were evil.
For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come toward the light, so that his works might not be exposed.
But whoever lives the truth comes to the light, so that his works may be clearly seen as done in God.


Personally, I loathe the way John 3:18 (Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God) is thrown at people of different faiths/religions--particularly at Jews. John introduces Jesus as the Word of God. Jews believe the Word of God and, this to the extent, they obey the word of God.

Today's use/understanding of belief has been reduced to a mere opinion or supposition as it has no empirical (physical, measurable) proof.
The Bible never says that any one is saved by obedience. It emphasizes the importance of obedience that we're saved by grace. We don't earn grace. It's a free gift from God through His Son, Jesus Christ.

As for John 3:18 -- we must believe that God meant and means what He said. To deny the Son, Jesus Christ is to earn condemnation. It's not a verse to be "thrown" at people but it IS a verse to be presented to those who deny Christ. There is no other way into the Kingdom but through Jesus Christ. Nobody gains entrance into the Kingdom due to their DNA.

John 10:9, "I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture."

Romans 6:23, "
“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
 
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so when the desert bibles no longer exist, being man made - there will be no way for a free spirit to enter the everlasting ...

or simply there has never been or ever will be made by the heavens a messiah to help one group of people over another or for any reason that would circumvent the true path, self determination for a free spirit to do so to persist accordingly in the everlasting by their own endeavor.
As usual ... you're lost in the weeds. There IS one group of people who has, does, and will find favor with Christ -- His Church. Those who trust in Him and believe in Him. Those who reject Him are condemned already.
 
As usual ... you're lost in the weeds. There IS one group of people who has, does, and will find favor with Christ -- His Church. Those who trust in Him and believe in Him. Those who reject Him are condemned already.

wrong again ... when referring to desert dwellers.

they, jesus gave their life in denial of judaism - what those who wrote the 4th century christian bible the continuation of that false religion is no different for what would be their same response for that tribunal as well.
 
The Bible never says that any one is saved by obedience. It emphasizes the importance of obedience that we're saved by grace. We don't earn grace. It's a free gift from God through His Son, Jesus Christ.
Let's set the word 'saved' aside for a moment. When it comes to belief, Aramaic/Hebrew word etymology tells a different story. In modern Western society 'belief' has become almost synonymous with 'opinion' or what one thinks. In Biblical society 'belief' is lived through one's every day actions, not merely by the opinions one holds. Early Christians were not known as Christians. They were known as Followers of the Way; they were known through acting in certain ways, the ways Jesus taught. That was belief, not merely thinking that Jesus is the son of God, or thinking they were redeemed/saved. It was their actions/obedience to Jesus' Way that spoke of their redemption, announced they were saved.


As for John 3:18 -- we must believe that God meant and means what He said. To deny the Son, Jesus Christ is to earn condemnation. It's not a verse to be "thrown" at people but it IS a verse to be presented to those who deny Christ. There is no other way into the Kingdom but through Jesus Christ. Nobody gains entrance into the Kingdom due to their DNA.
Redeemed/saved in Biblical etymology was commonly known as being freed from debt. In the same way 'condemned' was not synonymous with punishment, but the common usage of when someone owed another. In other words, those who did not believe in/obey/were true to Jesus/the Word of God then they already owed God for this lack of belief/bad behavior.

God gives us grace, His redemption, His saving power when we believe/follow/act upon His Word. This goes far beyond thinking things over and simply arriving at a conclusion.
 
Let's set the word 'saved' aside for a moment. When it comes to belief, Aramaic/Hebrew word etymology tells a different story. In modern Western society 'belief' has become almost synonymous with 'opinion' or what one thinks. In Biblical society 'belief' is lived through one's every day actions, not merely by the opinions one holds. Early Christians were not known as Christians. They were known as Followers of the Way; they were known through acting in certain ways, the ways Jesus taught. That was belief, not merely thinking that Jesus is the son of God, or thinking they were redeemed/saved. It was their actions/obedience to Jesus' Way that spoke of their redemption, announced they were saved.



Redeemed/saved in Biblical etymology was commonly known as being freed from debt. In the same way 'condemned' was not synonymous with punishment, but the common usage of when someone owed another. In other words, those who did not believe in/obey/were true to Jesus/the Word of God then they already owed God for this lack of belief/bad behavior.

God gives us grace, His redemption, His saving power when we believe/follow/act upon His Word. This goes far beyond thinking things over and simply arriving at a conclusion.
Fine words indeed and much truth to them. Nevertheless ... anyone who rejects Jesus Christ as the Son of God and God in the flesh (foundational and at the core of all Christian doctrine) will NOT enter into the Kingdom of God. There's no getting around that. No amount of mental gymnastics can open a special pathway to God's Kingdom just because we wish it so.

Nobody can "act" like a Christian unless they "believe" like a Christian. Nobody will be awarded the benefits of Christianity without first adhering to the tenets of Christianity. Attempting to keep the 613 Laws of the Old Testament may be a lofty goal but nobody can do it perfectly and attempting to will NOT save a man's soul.
 
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