keys to the kingdom

[hobelim]

Matthew 17 The Transfiguration of Jesus.*

In the Bible, the disciples - specifically Peter, James, and John - fell into a deep heavy sleep during the so called transfiguration.

People do not dematerialize and start glowing like the sun and a voice from the sky does not speak to anyone... awake. What they they saw and heard, they saw and heard in a dream.

Am I telling you something that you didn't already know?

 

[ding]

In the Bible, the disciples - specifically Peter, James, and John - fell into a deep heavy sleep during the so called transfiguration.

People do not dematerialize and start glowing like the sun and a voice from the sky does not speak to anyone... awake. What they they saw and heard, they saw and heard in a dream.

Am I telling you something that you didn't already know?

The Transfiguration of Jesus.*
28q About eight days after he said this, he took Peter, John, and James and went up the mountain to pray.*
29While he was praying his face changed in appearance and his clothing became dazzling white.
30And behold, two men were conversing with him, Moses and Elijah,*
31* r who appeared in glory and spoke of his exodus that he was going to accomplish in Jerusalem.
32Peter and his companions had been overcome by sleep, but becoming fully awake, they saw his glory* and the two men standing with him.s
33As they were about to part from him, Peter said to Jesus, “Master, it is good that we are here; let us make three tents,* one for you, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” But he did not know what he was saying.
34* While he was still speaking, a cloud came and cast a shadow over them, and they became frightened when they entered the cloud.
35* t Then from the cloud came a voice that said, “This is my chosen Son; listen to him.”
36After the voice had spoken, Jesus was found alone. They fell silent and did not at that time* tell anyone what they had seen.

 

[hadit]

Right.

Romans well known for their compassion gave out sundries books to read, pen and paper to write friends, a mattress, blanket and pillow and clean clothes to people in their dungeons.

House arrest was like that. Paul lived in a rented house and was allowed visitors who brought him things like food, clothing, writing implements, etc. He was chained to guards at all times. No, he certainly was not "working with the Romans" to subvert Christianity as you so errantly claim. He was writing for the cause of Christ and didn't give a flying rat's patoot about Rome, other than to preach there.

Come on, you would know these things if you ever looked at history beyond just enough to pervert it to fit your narrative. And you're still ignoring the churches outside Romes' influence who believed as the disciples did. You remember the disciples who walked, talked and ate with Jesus, the ones over whom you claim to have superior knowledge?

 

[hadit]

In the Bible, the disciples - specifically Peter, James, and John - fell into a deep heavy sleep during the so called transfiguration.

People do not dematerialize and start glowing like the sun and a voice from the sky does not speak to anyone... awake. What they they saw and heard, they saw and heard in a dream.

Am I telling you something that you didn't already know?

Yet another admission you don't think the creator is greater than the creation.

 

[ding]

People do not dematerialize and start glowing like the sun and a voice from the sky does not speak to anyone... awake. What they they saw and heard, they saw and heard in a dream.

The earliest Christians began worshipping Jesus as God almost immediately following his resurrection in the early 30s AD. This practice of "high Christology" was not a later invention by the Emperor Constantine; it originated within the first few years of the church among Jewish believers in Jerusalem. [1, 2, 3, 4]

The timeline of this theological development unfolded in three primary stages:

1. The 30s AD: Post-Resurrection Devotion
Within Jewish monotheism, worshipping a human being was strictly forbidden. Yet, historians and scholars (such as Larry Hurtado) note that the earliest followers of Jesus almost immediately broke this boundary. [1]

• They began applying the Greek title Kyrios ("Lord") to Jesus, a title previously reserved for God in the Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures. [1, 2]
• Early prayers, such as Maranatha ("Our Lord, come!") [1 Corinthians 16:22], were directed at Jesus. [1, 2, 3]
• In the Gospels, written down decades later but reflecting the earliest church's memories and liturgical practices, Jesus consistently receives worship without rebuking the worshippers (unlike angels in scripture who refuse it). [1, 2]

2. The 50s AD: The Apostle Paul's Writings
By the mid-first century, before the Gospels were even composed, early Christian hymns and letters explicitly recognized Jesus as divine. [1]

• In Philippians 2:5-11, Paul quotes a pre-existing Christian hymn that states Jesus existed in the "form of God" and that "at the name of Jesus every knee should bow."
• In Colossians 1:15, Paul describes Jesus as the "image of the invisible God," elevating him to a divine status. [1, 2, 3]

3. The Late 1st Century: The Gospels and Beyond
Between 70 and 100 AD, the New Testament texts solidified and recorded these already-established beliefs about Jesus.

• In John 20:28, the disciple Thomas famously falls to his knees and declares to Jesus, "My Lord and my God!".
• In John 1:1, the author explicitly writes that "the Word was God" and identifies that Word as Jesus. [1, 2]

Clarification on Church Councils
While the worship of Jesus as God began in the 1st century, the exact theological definition of how Jesus was God and his relationship to the Father and the Holy Spirit was debated for centuries. The Emperor Constantine convened the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD to formalize this belief into a standardized creed, not to invent it. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

 

[hobelim]

House arrest was like that. Paul lived in a rented house and was allowed visitors who brought him things like food, clothing, writing implements, etc. He was chained to guards at all times. No, he certainly was not "working with the Romans" to subvert Christianity as you so errantly claim. He was writing for the cause of Christ and didn't give a flying rat's patoot about Rome, other than to preach there.

Sure, the Romans guards would have let him preach subversion even though he exhorted Christians to submit to Roman authorities OR ELSE. If he was allowed to write and preach he was planting the seeds from which your religions of Mithraism mixed with the most superficial ignorant literal perverted interpretation of the gospels possible took over in 325ce unleashing the Antichrist. Constantine "saw the light" on his death bed, (yeah right) openly proclaiming that he was going to conquer the world under the sign of the Mithran cross.

Come on, you would know these things if you ever looked at history beyond just enough to pervert it to fit your narrative. And you're still ignoring the churches outside Romes' influence who believed as the disciples did. You remember the disciples who walked, talked and ate with Jesus, the ones over whom you claim to have superior knowledge?

Several years after his release, around 67–68 AD, Paul was rearrested and returned to Rome. This time, under Nero's heavy persecution of Christians, his conditions were much more severe. Early church tradition holds that he was thrown into the dark, damp, and dungeon-like conditions of the Mamertine Prison (known as the Tullianum) prior to his execution.

It was such a Roman thing to do.

Use someone to betray their own people, which to them was despicable, and then kill them.

Fcking rat.

Just a few years after Paul told Christians to SUBMIT to the Roman "authorities" OR ELSE. I sure hope he wasn't expecting a medal, a cookie, or reward for his submission and betrayal.



Obviously you never spent 40 days and nights being tempted by the devil while living in the wilderness among the wild beasts. Why would Satan bother? You are already in his pocket.

 

[ding]

Sure, the Romans guards would have let him preach subversion even though he exhorted Christians to submit to Roman authorities OR ELSE. If he was allowed to write and preach he was planting the seeds from which your religions of Mithraism mixed with the most superficial ignorant literal perverted interpretation of the gospels possible took over in 325ce unleashing the Antichrist. Constantine "saw the light" on his death bed, (yeah right) openly proclaiming that he was going to conquer the world under the sign of the Mithran cross.


Several years after his release, around 67–68 AD, Paul was rearrested and returned to Rome. This time, under Nero's heavy persecution of Christians, his conditions were much more severe. Early church tradition holds that he was thrown into the dark, damp, and dungeon-like conditions of the Mamertine Prison (known as the Tullianum) prior to his execution.

It was such a Roman thing to do.

Use someone to betray their own people, which to them was despicable, and then kill them.

Fcking rat.

Just a few years after Paul told Christians to SUBMIT to the Roman "authorities" OR ELSE. I sure hope he wasn't expecting a medal, a cookie, or reward for his submission and betrayal.



Obviously you never spent 40 days and nights being tempted by the devil while living in the wilderness among the wild beasts. Why would Satan bother? You are already in his pocket.

Conspiracy theory much?

While the worship of Jesus as God began in the 1st century, the exact theological definition of howJesus was God and his relationship to the Father and the Holy Spirit was debated for centuries. The Emperor Constantine convened the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD to formalize this belief into a standardized creed, not to invent it. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

 

[hobelim]

Conspiracy theory much?

When a conspiracy theory is proven to be true by evidence, as it has been irrefutably done, it ceases to be a theory and becomes a verified fact. History is filled with instances where what was once dismissed as wild paranoia was later validated by declassified documents, whistleblowers, and investigations.

 

[hadit]

Sure, the Romans guards would have let him preach subversion even though he exhorted Christians to submit to Roman authorities OR ELSE. If he was allowed to write and preach he was planting the seeds from which your religions of Mithraism mixed with the most superficial ignorant literal perverted interpretation of the gospels possible took over in 325ce unleashing the Antichrist. Constantine "saw the light" on his death bed, (yeah right) openly proclaiming that he was going to conquer the world under the sign of the Mithran cross.

Ah, there's that good ol' Mothra thing again. You're still ignoring the Asian and African churches that believed the way the original disciples did without Rome. Funny how that is, when you steadfastly ignore something that destroys a central pillar of your belief system.

Several years after his release, around 67–68 AD, Paul was rearrested and returned to Rome. This time, under Nero's heavy persecution of Christians, his conditions were much more severe. Early church tradition holds that he was thrown into the dark, damp, and dungeon-like conditions of the Mamertine Prison (known as the Tullianum) prior to his execution.

It was such a Roman thing to do.

Use someone to betray their own people, which to them was despicable, and then kill them.

Fcking rat.

You seem to be very convicted by what Paul wrote. You should ask God about that. And yes, I'll take Paul's word over yours every day of the week.

Just a few years after Paul told Christians to SUBMIT to the Roman "authorities" OR ELSE. I sure hope he wasn't expecting a medal, a cookie, or reward for his submission and betrayal.

Would you care to quote him on that? You know, for analysis.

Obviously you never spent 40 days and nights being tempted by the devil while living in the wilderness among the wild beasts. Why would Satan bother? You are already in his pocket.

You seem quite confident you can read my mind. Better make sure the foil mindreading helmet isn't on too tight; you're getting very crossed signals.

 

[hobelim]

Ah, there's that good ol' Mothra thing again

Do you even have the slightest inkling how ignorant that statement is? No? Thats a shame!

* Mithra was born on December 25th. Called "Birthday of the Unconquered Sun", it was incorporated into the church in the 4th century AD as the birthday of Christ. Although Jesus was born in October, Christians today celebrate Mithra's birthday, believing it was Jesus' birthday.

* Mithras birth was witnessed by shepherds and by Magi who brought gifts to his sacred birth-cave of the Rock

* He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.

* He had 12 companions or disciples, which in Mithraism were represented by the 12 astrological signs.

* He performed miracles.

* He was buried in a tomb.

* After three days he rose again, but with no witnesses to the event

* His triumph over death and ascension to heaven were celebrated at the Mithran's most important festival, Easter, held at the spring equinox when the sun rises toward its apogee

* Mithra was called "the Good Shepherd."

* He was considered "the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah."

* In the cult's rituals, Mithra was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.

* His sacred day was Sunday, and was called "the Lord's Day" hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.

* Mithraism had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper" in which bread was eaten as a symbol of Mithra' body, and wine was drunk as a symbol of the blood shed when Mithra overpowered and killed the bull

* Mithra performed many miracles, including raising the dead, healing the sick, making the blind see and the lame walk, casting out devils.

* Mithra was said to carry keys to the kingdom of heaven.

* Mithra was called the god of light and truth, the god of mediation between god and man. He was to his worshippers The creator of life; The Mediator between man and the higher gods; The God of light; The All-seeing one; The Guardian of oaths (covenants); The Protector of the righteous in this world and also in the next.

* A trinity godhead comprised of Mithra (divine god of truth), Rashnu (divine god of justice, judgement and righteousness), Vohu Manah (divine spirit of enlightenment). These three persons were separate yet they were one.

Before returning to heaven, Mithra was said to have celebrated a Last Supper with followers, who represented the twelve signs of the zodiac. In memory of this, his worshippers partook of a sacramental meal of bread marked with the Mithran cross of light. This was one of the seven Mithraic sacraments, believed to be the models for the Christians' seven sacraments, which follow them identically. It was called mizd, latin missa, English mass. Mithra' image was buried in a rock tomb, the same sacred cave that represented his mother's womb. He was withdrawn from it and said to live again.

Mithraism was an ascetic, anti-female religion. Its priesthood consisted of celibate men only.

 

[hadit]

Do you even have an inkling how ignorant that statement is? No? Thats a shame!

* Mithra was born on December 25th. Called "Birthday of the Unconquered Sun", it was incorporated into the church in the 4th century AD as the birthday of Christ. Although Jesus was born in October, Christians today celebrate Mithra's birthday, believing it was Jesus' birthday.

* Mithras birth was witnessed by shepherds and by Magi who brought gifts to his sacred birth-cave of the Rock

* He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.

* He had 12 companions or disciples, which in Mithraism were represented by the 12 astrological signs.

* He performed miracles.

* He was buried in a tomb.

* After three days he rose again, but with no witnesses to the event

* His triumph over death and ascension to heaven were celebrated at the Mithran's most important festival, Easter, held at the spring equinox when the sun rises toward its apogee

* Mithra was called "the Good Shepherd."

* He was considered "the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah."

* In the cult's rituals, Mithra was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.

* His sacred day was Sunday, and was called "the Lord's Day" hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.

* Mithraism had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper" in which bread was eaten as a symbol of Mithra' body, and wine was drunk as a symbol of the blood shed when Mithra overpowered and killed the bull

* Mithra performed many miracles, including raising the dead, healing the sick, making the blind see and the lame walk, casting out devils.

* Mithra was said to carry keys to the kingdom of heaven.

* Mithra was called the god of light and truth, the god of mediation between god and man. He was to his worshippers The creator of life; The Mediator between man and the higher gods; The God of light; The All-seeing one; The Guardian of oaths (covenants); The Protector of the righteous in this world and also in the next.

* A trinity godhead comprised of Mithra (divine god of truth), Rashnu (divine god of justice, judgement and righteousness), Vohu Manah (divine spirit of enlightenment). These three persons were separate yet they were one.

Before returning to heaven, Mithra was said to have celebrated a Last Supper with followers, who represented the twelve signs of the zodiac. In memory of this, his worshippers partook of a sacramental meal of bread marked with the Mithran cross of light. This was one of the seven Mithraic sacraments, believed to be the models for the Christians' seven sacraments, which follow them identically. It was called mizd, latin missa, English mass. Mithra' image was buried in a rock tomb, the same sacred cave that represented his mother's womb. He was withdrawn from it and said to live again.

Mithraism was an ascetic, anti-female religion. Its priesthood consisted of celibate men only.

Yeah, just like I said, there's that moldy old Mothra carcass which has no bearing on what I believe. The churches in Asia and Africa were not under Rome's influence and they believe the way the original disciples did, as do we. You are wrong, we are right.

 

[hobelim]

Yeah, just like I said, there's that moldy old Mothra carcass which has no bearing on what I believe. The churches in Asia and Africa were not under Rome's influence and they believe the way the original disciples did, as do we. You are wrong, we are right.

If you worship the spawn of a Roman trinity, a mangod with supernatural reality defying powers you are practicing the bastard child of the perverted union between Mithraism and Christianity, UNAWARE. Which is not what the disciples of Jesus, a Jewish man, believed.

Now "we" all know.

 

[hadit]

If you worship the spawn of a Roman trinity, a mangod with supernatural reality defying powers you are practicing the bastard child of the perverted union between Mithraism and Christianity, UNAWARE. Which is not what the disciples of Jesus, a Jewish man, believed.

Deal with the churches not under Roman influence. You won't because you cant' and I know you can't because I've been bringing them up repeatedly and you've ignored them every single time. All because you know they destroy your Roman and Mothra obsession.

Now "we" all know.

I'll take Paul's word over that of someone who gets his spiritual inspiration from Youtube videos every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

 

[hobelim]

Deal with the churches not under Roman influence.

Show me a church that doesn't worship Jesus as if he was a mangod, one third of a Roman trinity with magical powers, born of a virgin to become God and man, and I'll deal with that.

By telling them, "Well done!"

I'll take Paul's word over that of someone who gets his spiritual inspiration from Youtube videos every day of the week and twice on Sunday

Pauls word? lol.

That Jesus a mangod abolished Mosaic Law even though Jesus said the Law will remain in effect and in full force for as long as heaven and earth endure? Until you realize the significance of Paul being the replacement for Judas, remember, the torture never stops.

 

[ding]

When a conspiracy theory is proven to be true by evidence, as it has been irrefutably done, it ceases to be a theory and becomes a verified fact. History is filled with instances where what was once dismissed as wild paranoia was later validated by declassified documents, whistleblowers, and investigations.

That must be why you're the only one arguing the NT is conspiracy to portray Jesus as divine. Because it's irrefutable.

Walk me through when the conspiracy first started. Walk me through the evidence. This should be fun.

 

[ding]

Mainstream historians and biblical scholars do not view the New Testament as a calculated conspiracy to invent Jesus's divinity. Instead, the consensus indicates that the belief in his divine status evolved organically and rapidly within early Jewish-Christian communities, starting decades before the texts were written. [1, 2]

The formation of this belief is better understood through scholarly consensus regarding early texts: [1]

• Earliest Writings (Paul's Letters): The earliest documents (dating from the 50s CE) already contain highly developed "high christology," indicating that followers viewed Jesus as a divine being within just two decades of his death. [1, 2, 3]
• Organic Theological Growth: Leading scholars in early Christology, such as Larry Hurtado, point out that this exaltation grew from the intense religious experiences and scriptural reinterpretations of early Jewish followers, rather than an orchestrated collusion. [1, 2]
• Contradictions Defy Collusion: Historians like Bart Ehrman note that if the New Testament were a conspiracy, its authors would have aligned their narratives much more carefully. Instead, the Gospels frequently contradict each other on minor details and present different theological portraits of Jesus. [1, 2]

 

[ding]

None of these conspiracy theories are considered likely by mainstream secular or religious historians. Academic consensus uniformly rejects them as structurally implausible, factually flawed, and built on a fundamental misunderstanding of how ancient texts were produced, preserved, and circulated.
The probability and major factual flaws of each theory break down as follows:
1. The Roman State Conspiracy (Flavian Hypothesis)

• Likelihood: Extremely Unlikely (0%). Mainstream scholarship entirely dismisses this theory. [1, 2]
• The Structural Flaw: The early Roman Empire lacked the logistical mechanism or surveillance infrastructure to execute a flawless, top-down psychological operation of this scale.
• The Fatal Evidence: The earliest Christians were heavily persecuted by the Roman state, not protected by it. Furthermore, early manuscript fragments of the Gospels have been recovered from remote, impoverished Egyptian trash heaps, proving that the text circulated naturally through illegal, bottom-up networks rather than an official imperial distribution system.

2. The Second-Century Canonical Editorial Conspiracy

• Likelihood: Highly Unlikely (Low). While it contains a grain of real history, the "conspiracy" framing is widely rejected.
• The Structural Flaw: This theory correctly identifies that scribes edited manuscripts and that early church fathers actively fought over theology. However, it incorrectly frames this as a centrally coordinated conspiracy.
• The Fatal Evidence: The second-century Church was a decentralized, highly fractured network of scattered communities spanning from Europe to North Africa to the Middle East. No single bishop or printing center had the monopoly power required to systematically gather, alter, and re-release every copy of every text across three continents without leaving an extensive paper trail of protests.

3. The 4th-Century Constantinopolian Deception

• Likelihood: Completely Unlikely (0%). This popular myth—heavily amplified by modern pop culture fiction like The Da Vinci Code—is thoroughly debunked by historical records. [1]
• The Structural Flaw: This theory presumes that Jesus was viewed only as a human prophet until Constantine forced bishops to vote him into divinity. [1, 2]
• The Fatal Evidence: Extensive physical manuscripts from the 100s and 200s CE—well over a century before Constantine's birth—explicitly apply divine titles to Jesus. Furthermore, the Council of Nicaea did not even vote on which books belonged in the Bible. The actual vote at Nicaea was a highly technical philosophical debate regarding how Jesus was divine (whether he was created by God the Father or co-eternal with Him). The overwhelming majority of the 300+ bishops already agreed he was divine. [1, 2, 3]

 

[ding]

So much for your irrefutably proven to be true theory.

 

[ding]

When a conspiracy theory is proven to be true by evidence, as it has been irrefutably done, it ceases to be a theory and becomes a verified fact. History is filled with instances where what was once dismissed as wild paranoia was later validated by declassified documents, whistleblowers, and investigations.

Is google in on the conspiracy too?

 

[hadit]

Show me a church that doesn't worship Jesus as if he was a mangod, one third of a Roman trinity with magical powers, born of a virgin to become God and man, and I'll deal with that.

You just made up a bunch of carp that doesn't apply to the discussion. I'm pointing out that your continuing to ignore churches not under Roman influence that believe as the disciples did, and that destroys your contention that Rome invented the church. So, you can stop with the stupid Roman trinity thing.

By telling them, "Well done!"


Pauls word? lol.

That Jesus a mangod abolished Mosaic Law even though Jesus said the Law will remain in effect and in full force for as long as heaven and earth endure?

The law is still there and if you attempt to obey it in every aspect, it will condemn you, and yes, I'm talking about the law as it is written, not as you pretend it is. It was given to prove that man can't follow it, and the early church agreed that non-Jewish believers would not be held to it. Sorry, you're just wrong. I know I've illustrated it thusly and I know you've ignored it:

When you're in school, the teachers and the principal can tell you what to wear, when to play, when to eat, when to sit down and study. They have control and set rules to help you understand how to share, how to be polite, how to wait your turn, etc. When you graduate from school, those rules and that power are still there for those still under them, but they don't apply to you anymore, and the teachers and principal can't come to your house and control your life. What does apply are the things you were supposed to learn while in school, how to be polite, how to share, how to wait your turn, etc. Who goes back to the school and insists that they need to live under their rules?

Until you realize the significance of Paul being the replacement for Judas, remember, the torture never stops.

Where in Scripture does it say Paul replaced Judas? I'll help you and say it doesn't say that. That's just another of your pipe dreams.