Judaism = Zionism, huh?

[Pennywise]

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FlaCalTenn

So calling someone a "terrorist ass licker" fits into the Zone2 rules?

 

[editec]

Zionism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Antisemitism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you read to the two definitions, you quickly see why these issues can never be resolved honestly.


These definitions are unclear and leave it up to the reader to really decide what each word means.

 

[amity1844]

No, its pretty clear.

Zionism is one form of Jewish nationalism.
anti-Semitism is hatred of Jews.

So if we draw a Venn diagram it becomes pretty darn clear that one can oppose Zionism without opposing all things Jewish. Many Jews do oppose Zionism. Many more are lukewarm or undecided.

and in Israel, amazingly enough, a poll was done a few years ago that concluded than only a bare majority of Israelis could be considered Zionist. Apparently the new generations diverge from their parents' political viewpoints, similar to what occurred with second generation Puritans in America.

 

[Roudy]

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FlaCalTenn

So calling someone a "terrorist ass licker" fits into the Zone2 rules?

If there is content related to it, yes.

 

[Roudy]

No, its pretty clear.

Zionism is one form of Jewish nationalism.
anti-Semitism is hatred of Jews.

So if we draw a Venn diagram it becomes pretty darn clear that one can oppose Zionism without opposing all things Jewish. Many Jews do oppose Zionism. Many more are lukewarm or undecided.

and in Israel, amazingly enough, a poll was done a few years ago that concluded than only a bare majority of Israelis could be considered Zionist. Apparently the new generations diverge from their parents' political viewpoints, similar to what occurred with second generation Puritans in America.

Nope, Zionism is a big part of Judaism and Christianity. The number of Jews that are anti Zionist are a fraction of a percent of worldwide Jewry. So they can't be labeled as "many" in fact they can't even labeled as A FEW.

An anti Zionist is basically an anti Semite as Martin Luther King noted

 

[amity1844]

I think many Christians have been deluded by Zionists into thinking that there is a scriptural basis for Zionism. The rest of us aren't falling for it. LOOK what is being done to the Christian communities in Israel. That is what needs to be presented to them.

Nope, God isn't in the whirlwind of Zionism.

 

[toastman]

No, its pretty clear.

Zionism is one form of Jewish nationalism.
anti-Semitism is hatred of Jews.

So if we draw a Venn diagram it becomes pretty darn clear that one can oppose Zionism without opposing all things Jewish. Many Jews do oppose Zionism. Many more are lukewarm or undecided.

and in Israel, amazingly enough, a poll was done a few years ago that concluded than only a bare majority of Israelis could be considered Zionist. Apparently the new generations diverge from their parents' political viewpoints, similar to what occurred with second generation Puritans in America.

There's a difference between opposing some of Israel's policies and opposing Israel as a state all together. The latter is Anti Zionism.
If you feel Jews should not have a state where they created it, chances are you're anti Semite.

 

[Roudy]

I think many Christians have been deluded by Zionists into thinking that there is a scriptural basis for Zionism. The rest of us aren't falling for it. LOOK what is being done to the Christian communities in Israel. That is what needs to be presented to them.

Nope, God isn't in the whirlwind of Zionism.

Who us? You're a convert and terrorist worshipper. You don't speak for Christians, nor are you a representative of worldwide Christianity. The fact is Jesus was a Zionist, the New Testament is Zionist, Christian minorities are under attack by Muslim savages, and the last thing Christians would want is for intolerant, violent, medieval Muslim barbarians to gain control of the the Holyland. In fact the Crusades were all about doing just that.

True story, Fatima Enmity.

 

[Roudy]

No, its pretty clear.

Zionism is one form of Jewish nationalism.
anti-Semitism is hatred of Jews.

So if we draw a Venn diagram it becomes pretty darn clear that one can oppose Zionism without opposing all things Jewish. Many Jews do oppose Zionism. Many more are lukewarm or undecided.

and in Israel, amazingly enough, a poll was done a few years ago that concluded than only a bare majority of Israelis could be considered Zionist. Apparently the new generations diverge from their parents' political viewpoints, similar to what occurred with second generation Puritans in America.

There's a difference between opposing some of Israel's policies and opposing Israel as a state all together. The latter is Anti Zionism.
If you feel Jews should not have a state where they created it, chances are you're anti Semite.

Poor thing doesn't even know what Zionism is and it's ancient roots.

 

[amity1844]

I know it bears no relation whatsoever to the Bible, Roudy.

But this is not a theology discussion forum. I have had that discussion many times, btw, and made my point pretty well, so trust me, you do NOT want to go there.

 

[CMike]

Sally, omigosh, you mean all these anti-Zionist Jews are .... are ...

Anti-Semites?

Sadly there have been many.

Unlike the arab countries, jews have the right to free thought.

Often jews act against their own self interest.

Zionism is an integral part of judaism.

Almost every jewish prayer includes Israel.

 

[CMike]

Sally, omigosh, you mean all these anti-Zionist Jews are .... are ...

Anti-Semites?

So many of them are, Amity. You ever hear of self-hating Jews or Leftist Jews? Are you actually trying to convince us that so many of the anti-Semites on these forums actually care about the Arabs? If you do, I have a bridge to sell you.

Sally, you now have at least a couple of dozen sources which, if you will only read them, can keep you from embarrassing yourself like this in the future.

Some are leftist, but most aren't. Many are/were religious Jews who oppose Israel on religious grounds.

There are nuts in all religions.

Christians have the Wesboro Baptist who protest at the cemeteries of fallen soliders.

 

[amity1844]

No, don't try to shovel that load,
you know very well these are people you would be proud to mention as Jews if some neophyte asked you to itemize recent Jewish accomplishments.

 

[CMike]

Sally, you now have at least a couple of dozen sources which, if you will only read them, can keep you from embarrassing yourself like this in the future.

Some are leftist, but most aren't. Many are/were religious Jews who oppose Israel on religious grounds.

Most all Jews and millions and millions of Christians are Zionists. Those very religious Jews are probably the ones who are one of the favorite Jews of the NeoNazi/Islamofascist hate sites. We know all about those crazy religious Jews who visit their crazy Ayatollah friends in Iran. While these particular Jews believe that there should be no state of Israel until the Messiah arrives, many have no problems at all living in Israel. We all are aware that this bunch of Jews is very small in number, and most of us would have never heard of these Jews if people didn't drag them up from some hate site. However, Amity, if you take the time to patiently grow a beard, you will fit right in when they take you with them when they next make a trip to visit their crazy friends in Iran.

You have in this list some of the best minds of the 20th century, period. You can't be dismissive of this list of thoughtful, intelligent, highly educated people. Some of them are Chassidic rabbis who feel that Jews are usurping the role of the Messiah by setting up a state. Not left wing one bit. It is really a pretty broad cross-section of Jewish thought overall.

Note I did not say "Jews who are pro-Palestinian."
I said "Jews who are anti-Zionist."

No other claims are made.

Deal with it.

Yeah, so what?

As I said thre are nuts in all religions.

 

[Billo_Really]

Christian minorities are under attack by Muslim savages, and the last thing Christians would want is for intolerant, violent, medieval Muslim barbarians to gain control of the the Holyland.

Can you see Jesus saying that?

In fact the Crusades were all about doing just that.

And what was The Inquisition about?

 

[Billo_Really]

Sally, you now have at least a couple of dozen sources which, if you will only read them, can keep you from embarrassing yourself like this in the future.

Some are leftist, but most aren't. Many are/were religious Jews who oppose Israel on religious grounds.

I always get a chuckle when someone like Sally brings up the irrational concept of the jew-hating-jew.

 

[CMike]

I have talked to them.

Obviously not. Chabad is very pro-Israel.

There are sects of chassidism that are anti-Israel.

 

[amity1844]

By the way, CMike, you are on VERY thin ice with your comment that the last thing Christians would want to see is Muslims in the Holy Land. Israeli sources have posted some phony videos with this theme, and Arab Christians by their scores have commented beneath that they know of NOT ONE Christian house or church destroyed by Muslims. I don't think they like you trying to play that phony card.

 

[Roudy]

I know it bears no relation whatsoever to the Bible, Roudy.

But this is not a theology discussion forum. I have had that discussion many times, btw, and made my point pretty well, so trust me, you do NOT want to go there.

You mean your sock has had that discussion? Yes we remember the many times it got humiliated here. Fact remains, Christians have fought for the Holyland throughout history to rid it of Muslim invaders. That would not have happened if Christians believed Jesus was a Muslim Palestinian. Ha ha ha.

There is no doubt that Israel is ancient Jewish land that belongs to Jews.

You can promote all the propaganda crap you want, it's not going to change anything.

 

[amity1844]

Zionism is an integral part of judaism.

That is the myth I am dispelling in this thread.

Almost every jewish prayer includes Israel.

Not so, almost every Jewish prayer includes JERUSALEM, not the modern politico/military nation state of Israel.