Jesus of Nazareth, Shroud of Turin

[Dalia]

Good evening,

The Shroud of Turin or Turin Shroud (Italian: Sindone di Torino, Sacra Sindone [ˈsaːkra ˈsindone] or Santa Sindone), a length of linen cloth bearing the image of a man, is believed by some to be the burial shroud of Jesus of Nazareth, although three radiocarbon dating tests in 1988 dated a sample of the cloth to the Middle Ages.The shroud is kept in the royal chapel of the Cathedral of Saint John the Baptist in Turin, northern Italy. The Catholic Church has neither formally endorsed nor rejected the shroud, but in 1958 Pope Pius XII approved of the image in association with the devotion to the Holy Face of Jesus.Pope John Paul II called the Shroud "a mirror of the Gospel".

The origins of the shroud and its images are the subject of intense debate among theologians, historians and researchers. Diverse arguments have been made in scientific and popular publications claiming to prove that the cloth is the authentic burial shroud of Jesus, based on disciplines ranging from chemistry to biology and medical forensics to optical image analysis. In 1988, a radiocarbon dating test dated a corner piece of the shroud from the Middle Ages, between the years 1260 and 1390, which is consistent with the shroud's first known exhibition in France in 1357.Articles published from 2000 - 2015 have highlighted concerns about this dating.Aspects of the 1988 test continue to be debated, but meaningful challenges to the dating result have so far been unsuccessful.According to Christopher Ramsey of the Oxford Radiocarbon Accelerator Unit in 2011, "there are various hypotheses as to why the dates might not be correct, but none of them stack up.

The image on the shroud is much clearer in black-and-white negative than in its natural sepia color, and this negative image was first observed in 1898 on the reverse photographic plate of amateur photographer Secondo Pia, who was allowed to photograph it while it was being exhibited. A variety of methods have been proposed for the formation of the image, but the actual method used has not yet been conclusively identified. Despite numerous investigations and tests, the status of the Shroud of Turin remains murky, and the nature of the image and how it was fixed on the cloth remain puzzling. The shroud continues to be both intensely studied and controversial.

------------------------------------------------------

The different stages of the rejuvenation of the face of Christ of the Holy Shroud.

The Italian Scientific Police used software to digitally rejuvenate the face of Christ reconstituted from the imprint on the Shroud of Turin.

The Italian police used the digital technology usually reserved for the wanted criminals and the children kidnapped to reconstruct the face of the christ child from the imprint of the shroud of Turin. In general, this sophisticated and reliable software is used to age the face in order to obtain for example the robot portrait of a mafia who has been on the run for years. The most famous case is that of a boss of the mafia, Bernardo Provenzano, identified and arrested in 2006. His digitally aged photograph of 1959 proved to be almost perfectly similar to his model.


This time, the process was reversed to find the traits of Jesus child, adolescent and young man: the size of the jaw was reduced, the chin refined and shaved, and the nose straightened on the assumption that the deviation of The nasal septum, visible on the face of the shroud, is due to late trauma.

Was Jesus really blond?

But this work of the scientific police, supervised by the ecclesiastical authorities, is already provoking criticism and sarcasm: for the New York Times, "this angelic face recalls the prayer cards sold to tourists in Vatican souvenir shops and portraits New Age made by the neo-hippies of Venice Beach ".

As for the scientist Paul Diamond, who participated in the carbon 14 dating of the shroud in 1998, concluding with a fake made in the thirteenth century, he sees it as a "foolishness," emphasizing that Jesus child was certainly not blond.

This re-enactment was carried out on the occasion of the exceptional exhibition of the Shroud, normally kept away from the gaze and outrages of time in a sealed container. The seven-meter long relic that would have contained the body of Christ will be visible for two months in the chapel near the Cathedral of Turin where the shroud is preserved.

Suaire de Turin - Le visage de Jésus enfant dévoilé

 

[TNHarley]

They don't even know what he looked like. They base all of this crap off of European imaginations.

 

[depotoo]

From last year-
The Shroud of Turin, Authenticated Again

 

[Dalia]

They don't even know what he looked like. They base all of this crap off of European imaginations.

TNHarley, The study of the image of the shroud has being study by the Nasa as well.

How Image Enhancement May Explain Past Events
The following article is reprinted from NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory's house magazine, "JPL Universe," dated July 5, 1977.

In the "truth is stranger than fiction category" a phone call to NASA's JPL from a member of the Christ Brotherhood in New Mexico, requesting image analysis of a religious relic, has drawn two men from JPL's image processing lab into a fascinating investigation of the famous "Shroud of Turin."

The controversial shroud is a 4 1/2 meter, 7.62 centimeter long linen cloth that bears a remarkably detailed image of a bearded, long-haired man, with numerous lacerations over his body.

Tradition, dating back to at least 1354 A.D., has it that the fabric, with its brownish, stain-like shadings, is the burial shroud of Jesus Christ.

Enshrined in the northern Italian city of Turin since 1578, the shroud has inspired widespread curiosity, especially since the first photographs of it taken in 1898 showed the markings to be a "negative" rather than a "positive" image. The resulting "picture" resembles rubbings made from base-relief art works.

JPL's Donald Lynn and Jean Lorre were drawn into the quest for further information about the relic when the Christ Brotherhood members and representatives of a New York based Holy Shroud Guild contacted them last year. These people had learned of the NASA/JPL advanced image processing techniques, and hoped that sophisticated computer analyses might be applied to negatives and color slides of the shroud obtained in 1973. They explained that many questions about various types of marks on the shroud remained unanswered:

Was the body image formed from ammonia vapors absorbed into the linen threads, as thought in earlier years? Was it caused by a radiation phenomenon, as one analysis has indicated, or by processes of which scientists are still unaware? Are the dark spots at the wrists and feet direct-contact blood stains? Is the image possibly a "picture" that was painted on? And how could investigators better distinguish between the original image and blemishes such as holes, wrinkles, and burns, scorching and water stains that damaged the cloth during a fire in the Sainte Chapelle in Chamery in 1532?

The challenge for Lynn and Lorre was in the first phase a technical one, yet both men became caught up in the age-old mystery, and agreed to see what they could do. Their task was to remove as many of the extraneous markings or "artifacts" as possible in an attempt to reveal a more distinct picture of the figure on the shroud.

The pictures they produced (using mathematical and contrast enhancement techniques) revealed a noticeably clearer image of the figure.

"We didn't feel we made any major finds," says Lynn, "partly because we had poor quality negatives to work with. However, frequency analysis did tend to rule out the possibility that the figure was hand painted."

Both men were so optimistic about the mysteries they might eventually solve if allowed to obtain better photographs, that they chose to present their work to the Holy Shroud Conference in Albuquerque last March.

The Albuquerque gathering consisted of 40 participants, including forensic specialists, clergy, scientists from the Air Force Academy, Sandia Laboratory, and the nearby Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory, and eminent Protestant and Catholic scholars, including Vatican representatives.

Their common objective was to share current studies on the relic and to prepare for greater scientific examination of the garment at an unprecedented exhibition of the shroud in Turin in 1978.

The Face of Jesus?‹Enlargement of the face of the figure imprinted on the "Shroud of Turin" by image enhancement techniques used at NASA's JPL shows white spots, thought to be bloodstains, on hair and forehead.

That exhibition could be the "moment of truth" for the shroud's authenticity, according to Anglican scholar John A. T. Robinson of Trinity College, Cambridge, especially if use of the destructive carbon-14 dating process (now successful when applied to fragments as small as a square centimeter) is permitted on the fragile fabric.

A report by Dr. John Jackson and Dr. Eric Jumper of the Air Force Academy showed that the figure discernible on the shroud probably was that of a man 5' 10" tall, weighing about 175 pounds. These scientists ultimately hope to produce a three-dimensional statue of the body imprint.

One unusual examination by Zurich criminologist Max Frie, indicated that pollen particles found on shroud fibers are indigenous to Palestine, Turkey, France, and Turin, at dates appropriate to the alleged history of the shroud.

Despite the many tests made, scientists at the conference emphasized that they still are at a loss to explain how the image got on the shroud.

That is why Lynn and Lorre want to pursue this project. They'd like to apply color classification analysis such as is used routinely on Earth-orbiting satellite pictures. "To separate the various markings and determine their nature," says Lorre, "we would need to take high resolution photographs of the shroud in many colors, with adequate calibration controls to allow intercomparison between the photographs.

"Then very sensitive color variation maps could be produced, which might allow one to separate marks by their chemical composition."

Because of their professional and personal curiosity, Lynn and Lorre are hoping to participate in a more detailed examination and analysis of the shroud before the planned public exposition in Turin in 1978.

"Everyone who has come in contact with our shroud pictures shares our excitement," says Lynn. "I've observed a level of religious consciousness, especially among lab employees, which I did not know existed."

"Like many people around the world, we'd like answers to these compelling questions... Is this cloth really 2000 years old? Is the image truly the imprint of a human corpse? If so, whose image is it ? And, especially from the scientific viewpoint, how did that image get there?"

NASA Activities, November 1977

Detective Story, Part Two

(The following article appeared in "NASA Activities," September 1978, p. 7.)

Although the "Shroud of Turin" investigation by JPL scientists is not a NASA enterprise, the image enhancement techniques used stem from space technology. The work, therefore, has a NASA connotation. The following article, from the JPL Universe, covers the latest developments in this fascinating story. (See NASA Activities for November 1977 for earlier coverage.)

The Shroud of Turin, that ancient burial cloth mysteriously imprinted with a figure thought to resemble Jesus Christ, is dramatically affecting the lives of two JPL scientists.

When Don Lynn and Jean Lorre agreed to apply image processing techniques to photographs of the shroud in 1977, they hardly expected to find their results published in newspapers and magazines around the world.

Since then, their initial mild curiosity about the relic has intensified through involvement with other American scientists who propose to determine how the shroud was imprinted through a variety of sophisticated tests. The result is that Lynn and Lorre will go to Turin, Italy, in October when Catholic authorities will allow the American science team to make an unprecedented 24-hour examination of the shroud itself.

The team is sponsored by the New York-based Holy Shroud Guild of America. And the tests coincide with a public exhibition and international conference about the shroud, to be held in Turin September 26 through October 8.

Lynn and Lorre will take infrared and ultraviolet photographs as well as conventional black and white and color pictures. Other team members will make radiographic and X-ray fluorescence examinations.

Primarily, they will explore the mechanical formation of the unique "negative" image of a 5-foot-10 man with lacerations about his head, face and body.

Turin authorities declined to accept the proposed age-dating tests until it is determined exactly how much cloth is needed to get accurate results. If approval is granted by the conclusion of the exhibition, results from those tests will take months to obtain.

Although the shroud has been stitched to a protective cloth backing, the reverse side of the fragile fabric will be examined also, by using a flexible optical instrument.

A special frame from which the fabric will be suspended with magnets has been designed by Tom D'Muhala, president of an international nuclear decontamination firm in Connecticut. D'Muhala's chance reading of a book about the shroud led him to build and donate this equipment and to supervise logistics of the team's trip to Europe.

A formal proposal for the examinations was sent to authorities in Turin, along with a model of the frame and a unique three-dimensional model of the shroud figure, derived from image enhancement photographs.

Based on the relationship between image intensity (shades from black to white) and cloth-body distance, Air Force Academy professors and students built a cardboard model of the shroud's figure. They used slices of l/8-inch-thick cardboard to build up layers (similar in appearance to a topographical map) that form the frontal image of a 5-foot-10 man in a state of repose.

As the day of examination approaches, financial support for the American science team is still uncertain. "But we're going ahead with our plans," says Lynn, "because we are certain the funding will come from somewhere."

The cooperation of major business corporations has been tremendous, Lynn reports. Photographic and electronic equipment companies, including Polaroid, Kodak and the Brooks Institute of Photography have agreed to lend or donate facilities and equipment for the tests.

All the participants are donating their time, but money is needed for purchasing some equipment and for transporting people and equipment to Turin. Funds also are needed for the months, possibly years, needed to analyze the data.

Lynn and Lorre expect to provide a "quick look" report of their findings soon after the Turin exhibition. Both men speak of the event with expectation, still in awe of witnessing how technology is unlocking closed doors of history.
SPACE EDUCATORS' HANDBOOK

 

[Joy4Uall]

I have to admit that there is a chance that this is actually Jesus' burial cloth (1 in 100,000 or so, but still a chance.)

 

[irosie91]

Good evening,

The Shroud of Turin or Turin Shroud (Italian: Sindone di Torino, Sacra Sindone [ˈsaːkra ˈsindone] or Santa Sindone), a length of linen cloth bearing the image of a man, is believed by some to be the burial shroud of Jesus of Nazareth, although three radiocarbon dating tests in 1988 dated a sample of the cloth to the Middle Ages.The shroud is kept in the royal chapel of the Cathedral of Saint John the Baptist in Turin, northern Italy. The Catholic Church has neither formally endorsed nor rejected the shroud, but in 1958 Pope Pius XII approved of the image in association with the devotion to the Holy Face of Jesus.Pope John Paul II called the Shroud "a mirror of the Gospel".

The origins of the shroud and its images are the subject of intense debate among theologians, historians and researchers. Diverse arguments have been made in scientific and popular publications claiming to prove that the cloth is the authentic burial shroud of Jesus, based on disciplines ranging from chemistry to biology and medical forensics to optical image analysis. In 1988, a radiocarbon dating test dated a corner piece of the shroud from the Middle Ages, between the years 1260 and 1390, which is consistent with the shroud's first known exhibition in France in 1357.Articles published from 2000 - 2015 have highlighted concerns about this dating.Aspects of the 1988 test continue to be debated, but meaningful challenges to the dating result have so far been unsuccessful.According to Christopher Ramsey of the Oxford Radiocarbon Accelerator Unit in 2011, "there are various hypotheses as to why the dates might not be correct, but none of them stack up.

The image on the shroud is much clearer in black-and-white negative than in its natural sepia color, and this negative image was first observed in 1898 on the reverse photographic plate of amateur photographer Secondo Pia, who was allowed to photograph it while it was being exhibited. A variety of methods have been proposed for the formation of the image, but the actual method used has not yet been conclusively identified. Despite numerous investigations and tests, the status of the Shroud of Turin remains murky, and the nature of the image and how it was fixed on the cloth remain puzzling. The shroud continues to be both intensely studied and controversial.

------------------------------------------------------

The different stages of the rejuvenation of the face of Christ of the Holy Shroud.

The Italian Scientific Police used software to digitally rejuvenate the face of Christ reconstituted from the imprint on the Shroud of Turin.

The Italian police used the digital technology usually reserved for the wanted criminals and the children kidnapped to reconstruct the face of the christ child from the imprint of the shroud of Turin. In general, this sophisticated and reliable software is used to age the face in order to obtain for example the robot portrait of a mafia who has been on the run for years. The most famous case is that of a boss of the mafia, Bernardo Provenzano, identified and arrested in 2006. His digitally aged photograph of 1959 proved to be almost perfectly similar to his model.


This time, the process was reversed to find the traits of Jesus child, adolescent and young man: the size of the jaw was reduced, the chin refined and shaved, and the nose straightened on the assumption that the deviation of The nasal septum, visible on the face of the shroud, is due to late trauma.

Was Jesus really blond?

But this work of the scientific police, supervised by the ecclesiastical authorities, is already provoking criticism and sarcasm: for the New York Times, "this angelic face recalls the prayer cards sold to tourists in Vatican souvenir shops and portraits New Age made by the neo-hippies of Venice Beach ".

As for the scientist Paul Diamond, who participated in the carbon 14 dating of the shroud in 1998, concluding with a fake made in the thirteenth century, he sees it as a "foolishness," emphasizing that Jesus child was certainly not blond.

This re-enactment was carried out on the occasion of the exceptional exhibition of the Shroud, normally kept away from the gaze and outrages of time in a sealed container. The seven-meter long relic that would have contained the body of Christ will be visible for two months in the chapel near the Cathedral of Turin where the shroud is preserved.

Suaire de Turin - Le visage de Jésus enfant dévoilé

good news for you-----the people of the GALILEE----that would be---in general
a blob of land-----a kind of ROUND BLOB which constituted what at that time
was NORTHERN ISRAEL (GALIL means wheel---ie ROUND thing ---sorta)
were known to sometimes have hair "the color of sand" ----probably related to some genetic mixing with ASSYRIANS who at that time were "phoenecian greek mixed in" people. People do "mix"

 

[TNHarley]

I dont doubt the image. I doubt it belonged to Jesus. Again, we have no earthly idea what he looks like. Except for maybe his dark complexion. Images of Jesus were drawn to fit their own ideals.

 

[Dalia]

From last year-
The Shroud of Turin, Authenticated Again

Thank depotoo for the link..

Blood stains on the Shroud of Turin are located where Christ’s crown of thorns would have been.


The study’s conclusion was no surprise to Sudarium expert Janice Bennett, author of Sacred Blood, Sacred Image: The Sudarium of Oviedo, New Evidence for the Authenticity of the Shroud of Turin (2001). Bennett, who has been studying the Sudarium since 1997, tells me that, Although Miñarro stops short of linking the two cloths to Jesus, ample research has yielded staggering evidence. For example, both linens show bloodstains on the head, in approximately the same position, that were formed by sharp objects, similar to what thorns would produce. Jesus was the only person in recorded history to have been crowned with thorns before crucifixion. Bennett explains as well that the Shroud and the Sudarium are consistent with Jewish burial customs of Jesus’ day: Another important matter is that the cadaver that was wrapped by both the Sudarium and the Shroud suffered death by crucifixion, but was afforded a Jewish burial. This is highly unusual because most crucifixion victims were left on the cross for days and the bones were later deposited in common graves. Bennett adds that the “new research establishes approximately 20 points of correlation [between the Shroud and the Sudarium], which more than satisfies the standards of proof used by most judicial systems around the world, which require only 8 to10.”

 

[hobelim]

I dont doubt the image. I doubt it belonged to Jesus. Again, we have no earthly idea what he looks like. Except for maybe his dark complexion. Images of Jesus were drawn to fit their own ideals.

You mean he didn't look like this







Or this...

 

[hobelim]

I dont doubt the image. I doubt it belonged to Jesus. Again, we have no earthly idea what he looks like. Except for maybe his dark complexion. Images of Jesus were drawn to fit their own ideals.

You mean he didn't look like this




View attachment 122216


Or this...


View attachment 122217

Maybe this?

 

[Dalia]

Good evening,

The Shroud of Turin or Turin Shroud (Italian: Sindone di Torino, Sacra Sindone [ˈsaːkra ˈsindone] or Santa Sindone), a length of linen cloth bearing the image of a man, is believed by some to be the burial shroud of Jesus of Nazareth, although three radiocarbon dating tests in 1988 dated a sample of the cloth to the Middle Ages.The shroud is kept in the royal chapel of the Cathedral of Saint John the Baptist in Turin, northern Italy. The Catholic Church has neither formally endorsed nor rejected the shroud, but in 1958 Pope Pius XII approved of the image in association with the devotion to the Holy Face of Jesus.Pope John Paul II called the Shroud "a mirror of the Gospel".

The origins of the shroud and its images are the subject of intense debate among theologians, historians and researchers. Diverse arguments have been made in scientific and popular publications claiming to prove that the cloth is the authentic burial shroud of Jesus, based on disciplines ranging from chemistry to biology and medical forensics to optical image analysis. In 1988, a radiocarbon dating test dated a corner piece of the shroud from the Middle Ages, between the years 1260 and 1390, which is consistent with the shroud's first known exhibition in France in 1357.Articles published from 2000 - 2015 have highlighted concerns about this dating.Aspects of the 1988 test continue to be debated, but meaningful challenges to the dating result have so far been unsuccessful.According to Christopher Ramsey of the Oxford Radiocarbon Accelerator Unit in 2011, "there are various hypotheses as to why the dates might not be correct, but none of them stack up.

The image on the shroud is much clearer in black-and-white negative than in its natural sepia color, and this negative image was first observed in 1898 on the reverse photographic plate of amateur photographer Secondo Pia, who was allowed to photograph it while it was being exhibited. A variety of methods have been proposed for the formation of the image, but the actual method used has not yet been conclusively identified. Despite numerous investigations and tests, the status of the Shroud of Turin remains murky, and the nature of the image and how it was fixed on the cloth remain puzzling. The shroud continues to be both intensely studied and controversial.

------------------------------------------------------

The different stages of the rejuvenation of the face of Christ of the Holy Shroud.

The Italian Scientific Police used software to digitally rejuvenate the face of Christ reconstituted from the imprint on the Shroud of Turin.

The Italian police used the digital technology usually reserved for the wanted criminals and the children kidnapped to reconstruct the face of the christ child from the imprint of the shroud of Turin. In general, this sophisticated and reliable software is used to age the face in order to obtain for example the robot portrait of a mafia who has been on the run for years. The most famous case is that of a boss of the mafia, Bernardo Provenzano, identified and arrested in 2006. His digitally aged photograph of 1959 proved to be almost perfectly similar to his model.


This time, the process was reversed to find the traits of Jesus child, adolescent and young man: the size of the jaw was reduced, the chin refined and shaved, and the nose straightened on the assumption that the deviation of The nasal septum, visible on the face of the shroud, is due to late trauma.

Was Jesus really blond?

But this work of the scientific police, supervised by the ecclesiastical authorities, is already provoking criticism and sarcasm: for the New York Times, "this angelic face recalls the prayer cards sold to tourists in Vatican souvenir shops and portraits New Age made by the neo-hippies of Venice Beach ".

As for the scientist Paul Diamond, who participated in the carbon 14 dating of the shroud in 1998, concluding with a fake made in the thirteenth century, he sees it as a "foolishness," emphasizing that Jesus child was certainly not blond.

This re-enactment was carried out on the occasion of the exceptional exhibition of the Shroud, normally kept away from the gaze and outrages of time in a sealed container. The seven-meter long relic that would have contained the body of Christ will be visible for two months in the chapel near the Cathedral of Turin where the shroud is preserved.

Suaire de Turin - Le visage de Jésus enfant dévoilé

good news for you-----the people of the GALILEE----that would be---in general
a blob of land-----a kind of ROUND BLOB which constituted what at that time
was NORTHERN ISRAEL (GALIL means wheel---ie ROUND thing ---sorta)
were known to sometimes have hair "the color of sand" ----probably related to some genetic mixing with ASSYRIANS who at that time were "phoenecian greek mixed in" people. People do "mix"

Many people mistakenly see the coloring of many middle easterners today, dark skin, thick, often curly hair, and the mistakenly think that figures in Bible times would have looked the same. Increasingly in movies and media we have seen a transition away from portraying Bible figures as fair skinned people and a distinct move to portray them as olive completed and sometimes even black.



Moses as portrayed by Charlton Heston


Moses as portrayed in the recent The Bible miniseries

The Middle East currently still has some diversity when it comes to skin and hair color. Today you can find some blond hair blue eyed people, especially in Israel, although fair coloring in the Middle East is still rare. However, when reading the Bible and it’s description of the appearance of the many main characters we find them described as fair skinned, light haired people.

Jacob, the father of Israel, was the twin brother of Esau who is described as “Adomni” which is translated as ruddy, red haired, or golden haired in Gensis 25:25. David, King of Israel is also described as “Adomni” in 1 Samuel 16:12 meaning he had red or golden color hair. Laban, who is the grandfather of Jacob’s children, has a name meaning “white” which in English is translated as “blond.” (1)

Joseph of the Old Testament married an Egyptian woman in Genesis 41:45 however Egyptians at this time, particularly the Egyptian elite, were fair skinned people. An examination of King Ramses II, a Biblical contemporary at the time, has showed that this Egyptian Pharo was a natural red head. In addition thousands of red and blond haired mummies have been found in Eygpt and the famous King Tut shares DNA with 50% of modern Western Europeans.




Since Jesus was also a descendant of the House of David, it is reasonable to assume he would have a similar coloring to David, just as you most likely have a similar coloring to your ancestors. In the Bible we are told that Jesus has white or red hair. Revelation 1: 13-16 describes his hair as white as snow, or another translation can read “burning in a furnace” which would indicate red, like a flame. Psalm 45: 2-3 tells us Jesus is”fairer than the children of men” indicating he was lighter than the general population.

According to Islamic accounts Jesus was a red head. The hadith is Muhammad’s account of an event known as the Night Journey. Supposedly Muhammad was taken up to heaven by the angel Gabriel (Jibra’il), where he saw Jesus as well as other people Muslims believe to be prophets. Most versions of this account tell us that “Jesus had curly hair and a reddish complexion.” Now I’m not one to believe that Muhammad actually had a vision of Jesus but the account in the Hadith could be based on historical accounts of Christ at the time and shows us at the least, that the common and most believable version of Christ, even to Muhammad, was a fair, red haired man.


Depictions of Christ as having fair or reddish hair are the most common place depiction of Jesus since the beginning of Christianity, and while highly critiqued by modern liberals and those who seek to revise history, they are most likely the most accurate.

So why are Jews in Israel today often, but not always, olive skinned with dark hair if so many original Jews from Christ’s time were fair completed? In the7th century AD Israel was conquered by Arab Muslims. After the conquest, most of the population, including the Jews, became Arabized in both culture and language. Most in the area, including some Jews, adopted the religion of Islam. Jews were forbidden to build synagogues and most likely interbred to some extent with these darker skinned Arab peoples. Until the Crusades took Palestine in 1099, Muslim dynasties controlled all of Palestine.

As recent DNA studies have shown a distinct difference between Europeans and modern day Jews it is important to remember that most of the human family began in the Fertile Crescent and then spread out. Two thousand years ago we would have had more similarities than we do today because migration and isolation of certain groups for two thousand years have produced distinct genetic differences between us.

That’s not to say that ancient Jews are the same as say, the Vikings, no, not at all, but they were both most likely two different branches of the same Indo-European tree, one becoming Arab/Semetic and the other, the Euopeans, becoming what we know as the Western and Eastern Europeans of today.

 

[TNHarley]

I dont doubt the image. I doubt it belonged to Jesus. Again, we have no earthly idea what he looks like. Except for maybe his dark complexion. Images of Jesus were drawn to fit their own ideals.

You mean he didn't look like this




View attachment 122216


Or this...


View attachment 122217

Maybe this?


View attachment 122218

LOL
I wont pretend to know what he looked like

 

[Dalia]

I have to admit that there is a chance that this is actually Jesus' burial cloth (1 in 100,000 or so, but still a chance.)

Hello Joy4Uall, yes if it is Jesus burial cloth that cloth is Is priceless the mona lisa could give her place.

 

[yiostheoy]

Probably another relic icon that is counterfeit.

 

[IsaacNewton]

All of the images of 'Jesus' that have been painted over the millennia are just imagined by the painters.

He could have looked like Danny Devito.

 

[Dalia]

Jesus was referred to as “Jesus of Nazareth” for several reasons. For one thing, in Bible times people were often identified by their native area or place of residence. The man who carried Jesus’ cross when He was no longer able to, for example, was called Simon of Cyrene, noting his name and his place of residence (Luke 23:26). This distinguishes him from all other Simons and from all other residents of Cyrene who were not named Simon. Although Bethlehem was the place of Jesus’ birth, Nazareth was the place where Jesus had lived until He began His public ministry, and therefore He is said to be “of Nazareth.”

Matthew 2:23 tells us that Joseph settled his family in Nazareth—after returning from Egypt where he had fled to protect Jesus from Herod—in order to fulfill “what was said through the prophets: ‘He will be called a Nazarene.’” The words here are not found in any of the books of the Old Testament, and there has been much difficulty in ascertaining the meaning of this passage. Most commentators agree that the prophecies respecting the coming Messiah were that He was to be of humble origin and would be despised and rejected (Isaiah 53; Psalm 22) and that the phrase “he shall be called” means the same as “He shall be.” When Matthew says, therefore, that the prophecies were “fulfilled,” his meaning is that the predictions of the prophets that the Messiah would be of a low and despised condition and would be rejected, were fully accomplished in His being an inhabitant of Nazareth.

The phrase “Jesus of Nazareth” is first used in the Bible by Phillip who, after being called by Jesus to follow Him, told Nathanael, "We have found him of whom Moses in the Law and also the prophets wrote, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph" (John 1:45). By calling Him Jesus of Nazareth, Phillip may also have been making a statement about the lowliness of His birth. The character of the people of Nazareth was such that they were despised and condemned. Nathanael’s response, “Can anything good come from Nazareth?” (John 1:46) would seem to indicate such. To come from Nazareth, therefore, or to be a Nazarene, was the same as to be despised, or to be esteemed of low birth. The Messiah who would come to save His people would be “a root out of dry ground, having no form or comeliness” (Isaiah 53:2). He would be “despised and rejected of men” from whom men hid their faces and “esteemed him not” (Isaiah 53:3).

Jesus of Nazareth was born and grew up in humble circumstances, but His impact on the world has been greater than anyone ever born before or since. He came to “save His people from their sins” (Matthew 1:21), a feat that could be accomplished by none other than God incarnate.

 

[irosie91]

Good evening,

The Shroud of Turin or Turin Shroud (Italian: Sindone di Torino, Sacra Sindone [ˈsaːkra ˈsindone] or Santa Sindone), a length of linen cloth bearing the image of a man, is believed by some to be the burial shroud of Jesus of Nazareth, although three radiocarbon dating tests in 1988 dated a sample of the cloth to the Middle Ages.The shroud is kept in the royal chapel of the Cathedral of Saint John the Baptist in Turin, northern Italy. The Catholic Church has neither formally endorsed nor rejected the shroud, but in 1958 Pope Pius XII approved of the image in association with the devotion to the Holy Face of Jesus.Pope John Paul II called the Shroud "a mirror of the Gospel".

The origins of the shroud and its images are the subject of intense debate among theologians, historians and researchers. Diverse arguments have been made in scientific and popular publications claiming to prove that the cloth is the authentic burial shroud of Jesus, based on disciplines ranging from chemistry to biology and medical forensics to optical image analysis. In 1988, a radiocarbon dating test dated a corner piece of the shroud from the Middle Ages, between the years 1260 and 1390, which is consistent with the shroud's first known exhibition in France in 1357.Articles published from 2000 - 2015 have highlighted concerns about this dating.Aspects of the 1988 test continue to be debated, but meaningful challenges to the dating result have so far been unsuccessful.According to Christopher Ramsey of the Oxford Radiocarbon Accelerator Unit in 2011, "there are various hypotheses as to why the dates might not be correct, but none of them stack up.

The image on the shroud is much clearer in black-and-white negative than in its natural sepia color, and this negative image was first observed in 1898 on the reverse photographic plate of amateur photographer Secondo Pia, who was allowed to photograph it while it was being exhibited. A variety of methods have been proposed for the formation of the image, but the actual method used has not yet been conclusively identified. Despite numerous investigations and tests, the status of the Shroud of Turin remains murky, and the nature of the image and how it was fixed on the cloth remain puzzling. The shroud continues to be both intensely studied and controversial.

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The different stages of the rejuvenation of the face of Christ of the Holy Shroud.

The Italian Scientific Police used software to digitally rejuvenate the face of Christ reconstituted from the imprint on the Shroud of Turin.

The Italian police used the digital technology usually reserved for the wanted criminals and the children kidnapped to reconstruct the face of the christ child from the imprint of the shroud of Turin. In general, this sophisticated and reliable software is used to age the face in order to obtain for example the robot portrait of a mafia who has been on the run for years. The most famous case is that of a boss of the mafia, Bernardo Provenzano, identified and arrested in 2006. His digitally aged photograph of 1959 proved to be almost perfectly similar to his model.


This time, the process was reversed to find the traits of Jesus child, adolescent and young man: the size of the jaw was reduced, the chin refined and shaved, and the nose straightened on the assumption that the deviation of The nasal septum, visible on the face of the shroud, is due to late trauma.

Was Jesus really blond?

But this work of the scientific police, supervised by the ecclesiastical authorities, is already provoking criticism and sarcasm: for the New York Times, "this angelic face recalls the prayer cards sold to tourists in Vatican souvenir shops and portraits New Age made by the neo-hippies of Venice Beach ".

As for the scientist Paul Diamond, who participated in the carbon 14 dating of the shroud in 1998, concluding with a fake made in the thirteenth century, he sees it as a "foolishness," emphasizing that Jesus child was certainly not blond.

This re-enactment was carried out on the occasion of the exceptional exhibition of the Shroud, normally kept away from the gaze and outrages of time in a sealed container. The seven-meter long relic that would have contained the body of Christ will be visible for two months in the chapel near the Cathedral of Turin where the shroud is preserved.

Suaire de Turin - Le visage de Jésus enfant dévoilé

good news for you-----the people of the GALILEE----that would be---in general
a blob of land-----a kind of ROUND BLOB which constituted what at that time
was NORTHERN ISRAEL (GALIL means wheel---ie ROUND thing ---sorta)
were known to sometimes have hair "the color of sand" ----probably related to some genetic mixing with ASSYRIANS who at that time were "phoenecian greek mixed in" people. People do "mix"

Many people mistakenly see the coloring of many middle easterners today, dark skin, thick, often curly hair, and the mistakenly think that figures in Bible times would have looked the same. Increasingly in movies and media we have seen a transition away from portraying Bible figures as fair skinned people and a distinct move to portray them as olive completed and sometimes even black.



Moses as portrayed by Charlton Heston


Moses as portrayed in the recent The Bible miniseries

The Middle East currently still has some diversity when it comes to skin and hair color. Today you can find some blond hair blue eyed people, especially in Israel, although fair coloring in the Middle East is still rare. However, when reading the Bible and it’s description of the appearance of the many main characters we find them described as fair skinned, light haired people.

Jacob, the father of Israel, was the twin brother of Esau who is described as “Adomni” which is translated as ruddy, red haired, or golden haired in Gensis 25:25. David, King of Israel is also described as “Adomni” in 1 Samuel 16:12 meaning he had red or golden color hair. Laban, who is the grandfather of Jacob’s children, has a name meaning “white” which in English is translated as “blond.” (1)

Joseph of the Old Testament married an Egyptian woman in Genesis 41:45 however Egyptians at this time, particularly the Egyptian elite, were fair skinned people. An examination of King Ramses II, a Biblical contemporary at the time, has showed that this Egyptian Pharo was a natural red head. In addition thousands of red and blond haired mummies have been found in Eygpt and the famous King Tut shares DNA with 50% of modern Western Europeans.




Since Jesus was also a descendant of the House of David, it is reasonable to assume he would have a similar coloring to David, just as you most likely have a similar coloring to your ancestors. In the Bible we are told that Jesus has white or red hair. Revelation 1: 13-16 describes his hair as white as snow, or another translation can read “burning in a furnace” which would indicate red, like a flame. Psalm 45: 2-3 tells us Jesus is”fairer than the children of men” indicating he was lighter than the general population.

According to Islamic accounts Jesus was a red head. The hadith is Muhammad’s account of an event known as the Night Journey. Supposedly Muhammad was taken up to heaven by the angel Gabriel (Jibra’il), where he saw Jesus as well as other people Muslims believe to be prophets. Most versions of this account tell us that “Jesus had curly hair and a reddish complexion.” Now I’m not one to believe that Muhammad actually had a vision of Jesus but the account in the Hadith could be based on historical accounts of Christ at the time and shows us at the least, that the common and most believable version of Christ, even to Muhammad, was a fair, red haired man.


Depictions of Christ as having fair or reddish hair are the most common place depiction of Jesus since the beginning of Christianity, and while highly critiqued by modern liberals and those who seek to revise history, they are most likely the most accurate.

So why are Jews in Israel today often, but not always, olive skinned with dark hair if so many original Jews from Christ’s time were fair completed? In the7th century AD Israel was conquered by Arab Muslims. After the conquest, most of the population, including the Jews, became Arabized in both culture and language. Most in the area, including some Jews, adopted the religion of Islam. Jews were forbidden to build synagogues and most likely interbred to some extent with these darker skinned Arab peoples. Until the Crusades took Palestine in 1099, Muslim dynasties controlled all of Palestine.

As recent DNA studies have shown a distinct difference between Europeans and modern day Jews it is important to remember that most of the human family began in the Fertile Crescent and then spread out. Two thousand years ago we would have had more similarities than we do today because migration and isolation of certain groups for two thousand years have produced distinct genetic differences between us.

That’s not to say that ancient Jews are the same as say, the Vikings, no, not at all, but they were both most likely two different branches of the same Indo-European tree, one becoming Arab/Semetic and the other, the Euopeans, becoming what we know as the Western and Eastern Europeans of today.

well---not quite but almost. ADOMI or is not blond----it is reddish or ruddy.
The norm was STILL dark hair------anything "different" was usually noted----
like Hair the color of sand which probably meant blondish. Black skin was
almost always NOTED. Sometimes a person with black skin was described
as Ethiopian or Nubian. Your theory of THE TWO BRANCHES is pure conjecture and not necessary. By 2000 years ago
there was so much population shift in the entire middle east-----and Aegean
people and THE WORLD that------there is no need to theorize "branches" ----.
It is very clear that jews married other jews----wherever they found them---a
fact which held true for the next two millennia resulting in LOTS more
MIXING since jews also traveled lots. In the BC era there were people
writing about what they saw when they went to India. Probably did not go
to Mexico
The standard DAVID is a light skinned person with reddish hair-----Saul got
black hair and was tall----thus there was definitely diversity.

 

[Dalia]

The new face of Jesus created by British scientists. Popular Mechanics

Was he blond like Brad Pitt? Was he black like Kanye “Yeezus” West?

Just what did Jesus Christ look like?



Jesus is often painted as a black man in remote African villages.
CNN


No one knows. But news of a recent attempt to answer that question has resurfaced in these days leading up to the celebration of his birth.

In case you missed it, British scientists and Israeli archeologists earlier this year used forensic anthropology, the kind typically used to solve crimes, to recreate what was described as the most accurate image of the most famous face in history.

Their Jesus has dark short hair, a mustache and beard.

It looks nothing like a Eurocentric Jesus.

It looks nothing like “The Head of Christ,” one of the most recognizable images of Jesus painted by Christian artist Warner Sallman in 1940 and reproduced hundreds of millions of times on greeting cards and prayer cards alike.

Sallman’s iconic Jesus is white and light-haired as opposed to modern-day depictions showing Jesus with darker skin, darker hair, darker eyes — truer to the people of his day.

“Given the profound effect he has had on human history, it’s understandable that there would be so much curiosity around the face of the man who has billions of followers worldwide,” Discovery new noted on Monday.

“Artistic portrayals of Jesus have seemingly come to a consensus, though the image of Jesus has changed over the centuries.”

It’s not just Jesus’ skin tone that has changed. Historically, Jesus has had a number of hairstyles, too — long and flowing in Byzantine icons, short and curly in this latest incarnation.

Jesus has a beard, he is beardless.

Jesus has blue eyes. He has brown eyes.

Jesus smiles. He is stern-faced.

He is Hollywood handsome.

Just last week, the Department of Art and Design at Bluefield Collegen Virginia released an image of “Movie Jesus,” a composite image of every major portrayal of Jesus on the big screen.





In May, Italian police released a photo of what they said Jesus looked like as a young boy, an image created using the Shroud of Turin and computer forensics. British media reported that the police employed the same forensic techniques used to catch Mafia bosses.




In May, Italian police released a photo of what Jesus looked like as a young boy that they created using the Shroud of Turin and computer forensics.
Rome Police


It’s not as if the Bible offers clues to what Jesus looked like, with references to his physical appearance largely nonexistent, vague at best.

“Jesus is the best-known figure of history, but in many ways he is also the least known,”writes D. Moody Smith, professor emeritus of New Testament at Duke University Divinity School.

“Most ancient bioi (Greek plural of the word for ‘life’), like modern biographies, describe the subject’s appearance. Even Old Testament descriptions of King David, for example, allude to his physical attractiveness.

“But the New Testament Gospels contain no reference to Jesus’ appearance, much less a description of him. We don’t know what he looked like.”

Artists have depicted the baby Jesus since at least the fourth century. But among the earliest depictions of an older Jesus ever discovered is a fresco dating back to 235 A.D. found in a Syrian synagogue. The artwork, named the “Healing of the Paralytic,” shows Jesus with short, curly hair wearing a tunic and sandals.

The portrait of Jesus as a bearded, long-haired man began to emerge in the early fourth century, a portrayal inspired by Greek and Roman gods that eventually became the most commonly depicted adult Jesus, according to Discovery.

It was a bearded Jesus, for instance, depicted in frescoes discovered in 2010 in catacombs near St. Paul’s Basilica in Rome, believed to be the earliest depiction of Jesus with his 12 apostles.

The most recent portrait released earlier this year was created using forensic data from the skulls of first-century Jewish men from around Galilee in northern Israel.

Richard Neave, a British anatomical artist retired from the University of Manchester, used clay models, computerized x-rays and drawings of men from the region and Jesus’ time to reimagine his face, coloration and hair, according to mic

“Over the past two decades, he had reconstructed dozens of famous faces, including Philip II of Macedonia, the father of Alexander the Great, and King Midas of Phrygia,” wrote Popular Mechanics in January when it published these new findings.

“If anyone could create an accurate portrait of Jesus, it would be Neave.”

Even though the portrait was published earlier this year, it somehow found new life on the Internet in recent days, when “Jesus Christ” briefly became a trending topic Monday on Twitter and Facebook.

Noted Popular Mechanics when it first unveiled this new image: “For those accustomed to traditional Sunday school portraits of Jesus, the sculpture of the dark and swarthy Middle Eastern man that emerges from Neave’s laboratory is a reminder of the roots of their faith.”

What did Jesus look like? Scientists think they know | Miami Herald

 

[hobelim]

The new face of Jesus created by British scientists. Popular Mechanics

Was he blond like Brad Pitt? Was he black like Kanye “Yeezus” West?

Just what did Jesus Christ look like?



Jesus is often painted as a black man in remote African villages.
CNN


No one knows. But news of a recent attempt to answer that question has resurfaced in these days leading up to the celebration of his birth.

In case you missed it, British scientists and Israeli archeologists earlier this year used forensic anthropology, the kind typically used to solve crimes, to recreate what was described as the most accurate image of the most famous face in history.

Their Jesus has dark short hair, a mustache and beard.

It looks nothing like a Eurocentric Jesus.

It looks nothing like “The Head of Christ,” one of the most recognizable images of Jesus painted by Christian artist Warner Sallman in 1940 and reproduced hundreds of millions of times on greeting cards and prayer cards alike.

Sallman’s iconic Jesus is white and light-haired as opposed to modern-day depictions showing Jesus with darker skin, darker hair, darker eyes — truer to the people of his day.

“Given the profound effect he has had on human history, it’s understandable that there would be so much curiosity around the face of the man who has billions of followers worldwide,” Discovery new noted on Monday.

“Artistic portrayals of Jesus have seemingly come to a consensus, though the image of Jesus has changed over the centuries.”

It’s not just Jesus’ skin tone that has changed. Historically, Jesus has had a number of hairstyles, too — long and flowing in Byzantine icons, short and curly in this latest incarnation.

Jesus has a beard, he is beardless.

Jesus has blue eyes. He has brown eyes.

Jesus smiles. He is stern-faced.

He is Hollywood handsome.

Just last week, the Department of Art and Design at Bluefield Collegen Virginia released an image of “Movie Jesus,” a composite image of every major portrayal of Jesus on the big screen.





In May, Italian police released a photo of what they said Jesus looked like as a young boy, an image created using the Shroud of Turin and computer forensics. British media reported that the police employed the same forensic techniques used to catch Mafia bosses.




In May, Italian police released a photo of what Jesus looked like as a young boy that they created using the Shroud of Turin and computer forensics.
Rome Police


It’s not as if the Bible offers clues to what Jesus looked like, with references to his physical appearance largely nonexistent, vague at best.

“Jesus is the best-known figure of history, but in many ways he is also the least known,”writes D. Moody Smith, professor emeritus of New Testament at Duke University Divinity School.

“Most ancient bioi (Greek plural of the word for ‘life’), like modern biographies, describe the subject’s appearance. Even Old Testament descriptions of King David, for example, allude to his physical attractiveness.

“But the New Testament Gospels contain no reference to Jesus’ appearance, much less a description of him. We don’t know what he looked like.”

Artists have depicted the baby Jesus since at least the fourth century. But among the earliest depictions of an older Jesus ever discovered is a fresco dating back to 235 A.D. found in a Syrian synagogue. The artwork, named the “Healing of the Paralytic,” shows Jesus with short, curly hair wearing a tunic and sandals.

The portrait of Jesus as a bearded, long-haired man began to emerge in the early fourth century, a portrayal inspired by Greek and Roman gods that eventually became the most commonly depicted adult Jesus, according to Discovery.

It was a bearded Jesus, for instance, depicted in frescoes discovered in 2010 in catacombs near St. Paul’s Basilica in Rome, believed to be the earliest depiction of Jesus with his 12 apostles.

The most recent portrait released earlier this year was created using forensic data from the skulls of first-century Jewish men from around Galilee in northern Israel.

Richard Neave, a British anatomical artist retired from the University of Manchester, used clay models, computerized x-rays and drawings of men from the region and Jesus’ time to reimagine his face, coloration and hair, according to mic

“Over the past two decades, he had reconstructed dozens of famous faces, including Philip II of Macedonia, the father of Alexander the Great, and King Midas of Phrygia,” wrote Popular Mechanics in January when it published these new findings.

“If anyone could create an accurate portrait of Jesus, it would be Neave.”

Even though the portrait was published earlier this year, it somehow found new life on the Internet in recent days, when “Jesus Christ” briefly became a trending topic Monday on Twitter and Facebook.

Noted Popular Mechanics when it first unveiled this new image: “For those accustomed to traditional Sunday school portraits of Jesus, the sculpture of the dark and swarthy Middle Eastern man that emerges from Neave’s laboratory is a reminder of the roots of their faith.”

What did Jesus look like? Scientists think they know | Miami Herald

LOL.

that guy looks stupid.


See what happens when scientist tries to imitate art?

 

[HaShev]

>>John Paul II called the Shroud
"a mirror of the Gospel".

I.E. as phoney as the Gospels *L*

More debunking material:
Around this period of time of the Shroud there was a paraded around relic thought to be the skull of Jesus.
However, the catheri relic labeled
"Caput LVIII" contained the skull of a woman and this was sworn to be the flesh and blood tomb of Jesus=great embarassment that could question the faith, so that leaves the motive and possibly answers why they either forged this shroud or why would they lie about what it was.

The Shroud is exposed by the mere fact the texts describing Jesus reports Jesus as only 4'6" clean shaven as Jews are a small Race we were even shorter back then. The Shroud is of a bearded man over 6' tall.
The measure of his height which is given as 15 palms and a half, is roughly
4 feet 6 inches. A far cry from the over 6' figure in the forged shroud.

Then there is another issue, that being the church always claimed to only have 2 shrouds 1)Peters 2) Yehudas
So if the shroud had been real it could only be Judas' or Yehuda the Galilean 6bc crucified tax revolter Christ or Yehuda the Galionite Thief murderer most likely used for the Temple tables overturning story and Jesus Barabbas figure.=thus proving my points about being multiple figures used for the Jesus image, especially the fact they need these lies when the image is not singularly historical.
Truth needs no lies, only a great deception does.

Lastly the story of radiating light at vanishment causing the imprint
reads as Luciferian in nature & like a time traveler novel. Worshiping a time traveler as a god reeks of that Martin Lawrence comedy. He too used a bic lighter to bring fire down from heaven as they do on Easyer at the Holy Sepulchre, of course John of Patmos warned the beast in
Rev 13:13 would do that.