Dallas: Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress & a Bell P-63 Kingcobra collided & crashed with each other. It's unclear how many people were on board both planes

[DudleySmith]

'Mid-Air Horror': Did US B-17 Bomber & P-63 Kingcobra Collide Over Dallas Executive Airport Due To A Drone? Watch Video

New information has emerged about the horrific mid-air collision between a Boeing B-17 bomber and a Bell P-63 Kingcobra during an air display on November 12 at Texas’ Dallas Executive Airport. The two aircraft collided during this year’s annual Wings Over Dallas airshow, hosted by Commemorative...

eurasiantimes.com

Drones are getting to be a major hazard. Maybe we should fund and train Boy Scouts and high school rifle teams to patrol and shoot them down as a public service; they're annoying.

 

[Delldude]

Exactly. It was pilot error, and I would venture to say it was the error of the fighter plane not estimating the speed of the B-17 correctly. From most of the videos that I've seen, on here and in other places, the pilot of the fighter plane appeared to be trying to turn behind it, possibly demonstrating a strafing run on the B-17 and was going too fast, which is why he clipped off the back end of the B-17.

And, for you people who say these planes should have been grounded, or who are thinking that there were passengers on it, you should really read/watch a news report about this. It was an airshow demonstration (passengers are NOT allowed on demonstration flights), and the B-17 was crewed normally (5 people onboard) and the fighter plane had only the pilot in it. And, the aircraft that show up in an airshow are VERY well taken care of, and the maintenance on them is up to date and done well. If it weren't, they wouldn't be allowed to fly in the show.

Yeah. This was a tragedy. Lives were lost and historical artifacts were destroyed. But, we should look more to the people that died in this accident rather than worry about the planes that were lost.

And..................I hate to say it..................but pilot error happens. I remember that our sister squadron (VFA-136) lost a pilot and an FA-18 during a detachment to Fallon. Seems he had his head in the cockpit and missed the mountain coming up in front of him and flew into the ground. It happens. Not very often, but it does happen. Just like you can get distracted looking at things inside your car and end up going off the road, the same thing can happen to a pilot in an aircraft. Only trouble is, instead of doing 30 to 60 mph like a car does, the plane is doing 100 plus in the air, with very little time to react and correct if something bad is gonna happen.

I feel for the people who died and all of their families.

Quit jumping to your own conclusions.............please let it play out.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Quit jumping to your own conclusions.............please let it play out.

This is one is pretty straightforward. Expert pilots with tens of thousands of hours were calling this one the day it happened. The Kingcobra flew into the B17 because of the huge blind spot underneath old WW2 fighters. The plane was in a left bank putting the blind spot on the right side of the fighter. It was going far too fast and caught the B17 in the center fuselage.

This isn't jumping to conclusions. We have video and many experts who know what happened. It's not like it's a huge secret.

And remember, most "experts" at the NTSB have never flown a plane themselves yet we rely on what THEY say as the reason things happen. I trust ACTUAL pilots with 30,000 plus hours long before some government bureaucrat that's never landed a Cessna much less flown a WW2 fighter.

You want to know whats really crazy? The head of the FAA has ZERO flying experience. He worked in safety and flight ops but has never flown a plane himself. And that's the "head" of an agency overseeing over a million pilots who DO fly planes.

You see why the gov't is so fucked up?

 

[odanny]

That's interesting, an experienced pilot just does not fly recklessly into another aircraft. The drone very well caused him to lose control of his plane.

 

[airplanemechanic]

That's interesting, an experienced pilot just does not fly recklessly into another aircraft. The drone very well caused him to lose control of his plane.

Pilots make mistakes. Being an "experienced" pilot doesn't mean anything,

My flight instructor told me some of the most dangerous pilots in the air are the "experienced" ones because they think they know it all and get wreck less. He told me I'll take a student pilot over a 500 hour pilot any day.

 

[Delldude]

This is one is pretty straightforward. Expert pilots with tens of thousands of hours were calling this one the day it happened. The Kingcobra flew into the B17 because of the huge blind spot underneath old WW2 fighters. The plane was in a left bank putting the blind spot on the right side of the fighter. It was going far too fast and caught the B17 in the center fuselage.

This isn't jumping to conclusions. We have video and many experts who know what happened. It's not like it's a huge secret.

And remember, most "experts" at the NTSB have never flown a plane themselves yet we rely on what THEY say as the reason things happen. I trust ACTUAL pilots with 30,000 plus hours long before some government bureaucrat that's never landed a Cessna much less flown a WW2 fighter.

You want to know whats really crazy? The head of the FAA has ZERO flying experience. He worked in safety and flight ops but has never flown a plane himself. And that's the "head" of an agency overseeing over a million pilots who DO fly planes.

You see why the gov't is so fucked up?

Meh...one doesn't need to be a pilot to fly FAR's.

I'll wait until all the factors have been examined and a findings report issued.

 

[ABikerSailor]

That's interesting, an experienced pilot just does not fly recklessly into another aircraft. The drone very well caused him to lose control of his plane.

An experienced pilot doesn't just fly recklessly into the ground either, but I saw it happen while I was with VFA-131. A pilot with our sister squadron (VFA-136) while out on detachment in Fallon was experienced, as well as was by all accounts a good pilot, as he'd had many hours in the FA-18 platform. He ended up flying into a "granite cloud" (ended up flying into the ground). The investigation board concluded that it was pilot error that caused it, and they think that he'd been looking at his instruments in the cockpit and didn't realize how fast the ground was coming up at him when he hit.

Even experienced pilots make mistakes.

 

[Delldude]

An experienced pilot doesn't just fly recklessly into the ground either, but I saw it happen while I was with VFA-131. A pilot with our sister squadron (VFA-136) while out on detachment in Fallon was experienced, as well as was by all accounts a good pilot, as he'd had many hours in the FA-18 platform. He ended up flying into a "granite cloud" (ended up flying into the ground). The investigation board concluded that it was pilot error that caused it, and they think that he'd been looking at his instruments in the cockpit and didn't realize how fast the ground was coming up at him when he hit.

Even experienced pilots make mistakes.

Pilot error is the most common cause in A/C crashes.

The show Air Disasters is full of pilot error.

Granite cloud, that's a good one. They have terrain warnings in 18's?

 

[airplanemechanic]

Pilot error is the most common cause in A/C crashes.

The show Air Disasters is full of pilot error.

Granite cloud, that's a good one. They have terrain warnings in 18's?

I doubt it but even if they do at 500mph by the time it goes off and you comprehend what you're hearing the mushroom cloud is already going up.

Non pilots just dont understand the speeds we're dealing with. You think things happen fast on the interstate at 70mph when the shit hits the fan? You should see how fast it happens at 4 or 5 times that speed. The B17 was estimated to be going almost 200mph. The fighter that hit it almost 300. Things happen FAST at those speeds and proximities.

 

[Delldude]

I doubt it but even if they do at 500mph by the time it goes off and you comprehend what you're hearing the mushroom cloud is already going up.

Non pilots just dont understand the speeds we're dealing with. You think things happen fast on the interstate at 70mph when the shit hits the fan? You should see how fast it happens at 4 or 5 times that speed. The B17 was estimated to be going almost 200mph. The fighter that hit it almost 300. Things happen FAST at those speeds and proximities.?

So you are` opining on flying a bug smasher at mach 2 compared to a normal approach ?

 

[AZrailwhale]

Yeah, I know that. I also know that once the work is done, pretty much every one of those aircraft in a hanger would get a cert.

Most would need full engine overhauls at a minimum. Many museum displays are only visually correct, they would never stand the stresses of flight. Even the National Air and Space Museum has many aircraft incapable of flight.

 

[Delldude]

Most would need full engine overhauls at a minimum. Many museum displays are only visually correct, they would never stand the stresses of flight. Even the National Air and Space Museum has many aircraft incapable of flight.

Is no minimum...required inspection regs , relating to aircraft certification to fly....you meet the reg's or you don't receive an airworthiness authorization...........that simple.

 

[westwall]

Most would need full engine overhauls at a minimum. Many museum displays are only visually correct, they would never stand the stresses of flight. Even the National Air and Space Museum has many aircraft incapable of flight.

Certainly the 1920's and earlier that is true.

1940's aircraft are a different animal. The engines are easy, you replace them with Zero timed units, which are plentiful.

 

[Delldude]

Certainly the 1920's and earlier that is true.

1940's aircraft are a different animal. The engines are easy, you replace them with Zero timed units, which are plentiful.

They all have to meet airworthiness standards regarding whatever type A/C we're talking about.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Is no minimum...required inspection regs , relating to aircraft certification to fly....you meet the reg's or you don't receive an airworthiness authorization...........that simple.

Even if the aircraft had been fully restored to flightworthy status before going into the museum, only a fool would trust engine and fuel system seals that had been sitting dry for years to decades. As I said full engine overhauls would be a minimum for getting the plane fly able.

 

[westwall]

They all have to meet airworthiness standards regarding whatever type A/C we're talking about.

Of course they do. The issue is parts availability. There are loads of parts still available for WWII aircraft.

Not so much when you get below 1930.

 

[westwall]

Even if the aircraft had been fully restored to flightworthy status before going into the museum, only a fool would trust engine and fuel system seals that had been sitting dry for years to decades. As I said full engine overhauls would be a minimum for getting the plane fly able.

Ummm, that's why you replace EVERYTHING with zero timed engines.

It ain't rocket science. We can change a R-2800 in about 4 hours.

 

[Delldude]

Even if the aircraft had been fully restored to flightworthy status before going into the museum, only a fool would trust engine and fuel system seals that had been sitting dry for years to decades. As I said full engine overhauls would be a minimum for getting the plane fly able.

It has to be deemed airworthy before it fly's again, not when it went into a museum.
Someone signs the plane off for airworthiness.

 

[Ringel05]

The B-17 was supposed to line up on the runway, and there were supposed to be two fighters to either side as they made a photo pass.

The pilot of the P-63 got careless and lost spatial awareness, and as he flew in to the pattern he was too fast and didn't realize he had cut inside of the B-17.

Looks like you may be mistaken concerning the pilot......... Looks like the P-63 pilot may have hit a drone first.

Dallas Midair Tragedy: New Videos Show Startling Change in Flight Path of P-63

 

[westwall]

Looks like you may be mistaken concerning the pilot......... Looks like the P-63 pilot may have hit a drone first.

Dallas Midair Tragedy: New Videos Show Startling Change in Flight Path of P-63

It is certainly possible. It would have to be a pretty large drone. And it is still a loss of spatial awareness, it is clearly suboptimal to suffer a midair when avoiding some other object in the air.