Jesus is Michael

[Cougarbear]

You don't know "what Jesus said" so stop pretending that you do. Christ was put to death with the approval of the population because he was a pugnacious polytheist (in the worst-case scenario) or thought to have been so (in the best-case scenario).

How does it make you feel to be a selective, voluntary ignoramus

With that logic, then we don't know what you just wrote either. So, no one is pretending what Jesus said. It was written down. It's thinkers like you that deny the Holocaust as well. And, yes, Christ was put to death for claiming he is the Son of God, a member of the Godhead with power and authority. He taught His people the errors of their understanding. That He, like the rest of us, have a Father in Heaven, a Messiah (in which the people supposedly were to believe in) to come and be their savior taking upon them their sins and griefs as the ultimate atonement. Because you don't believe in natural events that you don't understand, you call the Lord names, just like the ignorant Jews and Romans at the time. So, it is not me who is being selective. It is you. And, I'll refrain from calling you names. Very un-Christian, don't you think?

 

[Cougarbear]

The Hebrew scholars say there is no i am in the Hebrew OT.

I take the words of most scholars whether Jewish or Christian with a grain of salt. They think themselves into oblivion. And, I take it that you are reading from JW Hebrew Scholars. Christian Scholars would disagree with you and have plenty of valid reasons to do so. JWs used to have "I am" in their Bibles in both OT and NT. But, like most fake religions, they change the Doctrine by changing the words and falsifying their works. There are many who claim that Isaiah never said that a "virgin would conceive" and bare a child named Emmanuel (God is with us). Because that would give divinity of Jehovah to Jesus. And, that just can't happen with all the money your Church has invested in these lies.

 

[GLASNOST]

With that logic, then we don't know what you just wrote either.

Well, my name is GLASNOST and these are my words but if you think I'm sleeping right now and it's a robot who is writing this ....... it's not my problem what you believe. Anyway, I have more respect for your honest-felt opinion on that than for some silly story, written in the fairy tale bible.

So, no one is pretending what Jesus said. It was written down.

Who wrote it down? Jesus? Nope! You are pretending in the sense that you claim the bible is fact.

It's thinkers like you that deny the Holocaust as well.

You are ill. Mentally disturbed.

And, yes, Christ was put to death for claiming he is the Son of God ...

I'm sure that he was guilty of much more than that.

He taught His people the errors of their understanding.

No, he told people that the Judaic Covenent with God is bull shit. "The Chosen People" set out the rules. Christ (or his so-called followers) said the Chosen People were wrong. It's like clearly hitting a ball out of bounds and then claiming that hitting a ball out of bounds is fair play.

That He, like the rest of us, have a Father in Heaven, a Messiah (in which the people supposedly were to believe in) to come and be their savior taking upon them their sins and griefs as the ultimate atonement.

No, I guess you don't know very much at all. The Messiah isn't supposed to "take upon sins". You've been misinformed and yet you think you know so much.

Because you don't believe in natural events that you don't understand,

It is you who refuses to believe in natural events. You believe in superstition.

... you call the Lord names, just like the ignorant Jews and Romans at the time.

Uhhhh, that is the point. Jesus was not the Lord/Messiah. He was a blasphemer. Such people deserve to be "called names". Blasphemer! There I said it again!

So, it is not me who is being selective. It is you.

Wrong. I am right, it is you who is being selectively ignorant. I am open to ALL scientific proof and facts, you are not. If proof of what you say were true then I'd believe it.

And, I'll refrain from calling you names. Very un-Christian, don't you think?

Is this supposed to be relevant?

 

[kjw47]

I take the words of most scholars whether Jewish or Christian with a grain of salt. They think themselves into oblivion. And, I take it that you are reading from JW Hebrew Scholars. Christian Scholars would disagree with you and have plenty of valid reasons to do so. JWs used to have "I am" in their Bibles in both OT and NT. But, like most fake religions, they change the Doctrine by changing the words and falsifying their works. There are many who claim that Isaiah never said that a "virgin would conceive" and bare a child named Emmanuel (God is with us). Because that would give divinity of Jehovah to Jesus. And, that just can't happen with all the money your Church has invested in these lies.

They checked into fact is what they did. By making corrections to errors discovered, proves truth is what they want. When was Jesus named Emmanuel?

 

[GLASNOST]

I take the words of most scholars whether Jewish or Christian with a grain of salt.

"Most scholars", huh? How dare you say the scholars who comment on a book of fiction be taken with a grain of salt? It's like saying that "Alice in Wonderland" is a factual story except for the part when playing cards dance and rabbits carry clocks.

They checked into fact is what they did. By making corrections to errors discovered, proves truth is what they want. When was Jesus named Emmanuel?

What "facts" are you talking about? Do you want to tell me that Jesus Christ lived? Fine. Do you want to tell me that Christ was a prophet? Fine. There were thousands of prophets during that time, mostly making up superstitious stories based upon their dreams and nightmares. Where were we? Oh, yes, we were talking about "facts". As far as being born of a virgin, being god's offspring, dying for our sins and being resurrected from the dead well that's all fantasy. No "FACTS".

Actually, the two of you ought to be ashamed of yourselves for insulting god (any god) that he/she/it would be so powerful, so creative and all-knowing yet so stupid as to leave mankind with such a ridiculous half-baked story and expect us to let our superstition take control of our lives and existence.

*** You slander the god you claim to believe in.

 

[ding]

"Most scholars", huh? How dare you say the scholars who comment on a book of fiction be taken with a grain of salt? It's like saying that "Alice in Wonderland" is a factual story except for the part when playing cards dance and rabbits carry clocks.

Early Christians wrote about him, Jewish historians wrote about him and secular historians wrote about him. He's probably the most studied person in the history of the world. Western civilization was founded on his teachings. Not bad for a convicted criminal who was put to death by the super power of the day.

 

[Cougarbear]

Well, my name is GLASNOST and these are my words but if you think I'm sleeping right now and it's a robot who is writing this ....... it's not my problem what you believe. Anyway, I have more respect for your honest-felt opinion on that than for some silly story, written in the fairy tale bible.



Who wrote it down? Jesus? Nope! You are pretending in the sense that you claim the bible is fact.


You are ill. Mentally disturbed.

I'm sure that he was guilty of much more than that.

No, he told people that the Judaic Covenent with God is bull shit. "The Chosen People" set out the rules. Christ (or his so-called followers) said the Chosen People were wrong. It's like clearly hitting a ball out of bounds and then claiming that hitting a ball out of bounds is fair play.






No, I guess you don't know very much at all. The Messiah isn't supposed to "take upon sins". You've been misinformed and yet you think you know so much.


It is you who refuses to believe in natural events. You believe in superstition.


Uhhhh, that is the point. Jesus was not the Lord/Messiah. He was a blasphemer. Such people deserve to be "called names". Blasphemer! There I said it again!


Wrong. I am right, it is you who is being selectively ignorant. I am open to ALL scientific proof and facts, you are not. If proof of what you say were true then I'd believe it.

Is this supposed to be relevant?

It's weird how you defend Judaism's God and at the same time believe God is a silly superstition. How does one juggle that nonsense in their minds at the same time. Bipolarism I guess. Isaiah 53:1 is talking about you, "Who hath believed our report? and to whom the arm of the Lord revealed." Verse 3, "He is despised and rejected of men....we esteemed him not." Verse 4 on what the Messiah will do, "Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, and we esteemed him not." Verse 5, "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed." Verse 10, "Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days...for he shall bear their iniquities..."Verse 12, "Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors." - Beautiful prophecy by Isaiah what he saw in his vision about the Savior of the World, Jesus Christ as he atoned for our sins and died on the cross between two transgressors.

 

[Cougarbear]

They checked into fact is what they did. By making corrections to errors discovered, proves truth is what they want. When was Jesus named Emmanuel?

Emmanuel means, "God is with us." I gave you the verse from Isaiah. You didn't recognize it? Why should I be shocked. Matthew believed that Jesus was the promised Messiah. First, to make corrections, one must be a prophet. A true prophet that doesn't make false prophecies. Your prophets from the beginning of your church made specific false dates that the world would end when Jesus comes. And, they continued and continued to make new false dates that came and went. No reason then to believe the changes made by them. They didn't correct a thing. They took out plain and precious truths. Like "I AM" twice. Once in the OT and once in the NT. That's what happens when the Holy Ghost is not utilized.

 

[GLASNOST]

.... Jesus Christ .....

Western civilization was founded on his teachings.

Pure rubbish. Western civilization was founded upon monotheism which is a Judaic philosophy, not Christian.

 

[GLASNOST]

It's weird how you defend Judaism's God and at the same time believe God is a silly superstition.

I do not "defend Judaism's God". God is a silly superstition. I am merely shaming you (Christianity) for claiming to represent God's word yet defiling the monotheist God concept of the founders themselves, thus defiling the God you pretend to honour. Christianity is a heathen atrocity pretending to be God's word. That is a strong indication that Christianity is a Satanic, anti-God religion. Other religions such as Buddhism or Hinduism are based upon their unique philosophy and do not defile their God. Christianity, on the other hand, has planted a bad seed against the monotheist God that Judaism has founded, taking an existing religious belief and corrupting it by denying fundamental Messianic philosophy: A classic SATANIC manoeuvre.

 

[GLASNOST]

..... to make corrections, one must be a prophet.

Anyone who ponders the meaning of life and shares his/her thoughts on the subject is a prophet.

A true prophet that doesn't make false prophecies.

To date, there have NEVER been any true prophecies so what is your point?

 

[Colin norris]

Let us( YHWH and his master worker) create man in our image)--(Proverbs 8 = Gods master worker. He tells you he was created, It says-God grew especially fond of me. And he advises all to listen to him. The only one deserving the title-master worker is the one whom God created all other things through. This is the being YHWH sent to earth and was named Jesus as a mortal)
Daniel 12:1 teaches it is Michael who stands up for the sons of Daniel( Israel) And he did that when he came to earth for them as Jesus. 1Thess 4:16--Upon Jesus return he comes with the voice of the archangel) it is his voice. Michael rides the white horse in the war of heaven, Jesus rides the white horse at Har-mageddon, its the same ride it does not end until this point-1Corinthians 15: 24-28) Jesus hands back the kingdom to his God and Father and subjects himself.--- Fact--God does not have a God-Jesus does(John 20:17, Rev 3:12) Fact-- God is in subjection to none ever. Proving 100% no trinity god exists.

You need to seek help with delusions and hallucinations like that.

 

[ding]

Pure rubbish. Western civilization was founded upon monotheism which is a Judaic philosophy, not Christian.

Judaism is a religion, not a philosophy. Christianity is effectively a sect of Judaism. By any objective measure Western Civilization was founded on the principles of Christianity and by Christians. No other institution played a greater roile in shaping Western Civilization than the HRCC.

Role of Christianity in civilization - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[kjw47]

Emmanuel means, "God is with us." I gave you the verse from Isaiah. You didn't recognize it? Why should I be shocked. Matthew believed that Jesus was the promised Messiah. First, to make corrections, one must be a prophet. A true prophet that doesn't make false prophecies. Your prophets from the beginning of your church made specific false dates that the world would end when Jesus comes. And, they continued and continued to make new false dates that came and went. No reason then to believe the changes made by them. They didn't correct a thing. They took out plain and precious truths. Like "I AM" twice. Once in the OT and once in the NT. That's what happens when the Holy Ghost is not utilized.

The men who are erred back then are dead. The JW,s dont do that anymore. The Hebrew scholars say there is no I AM in the OT. Its a mistranslation only found in trinity translations.

 

[kjw47]

You need to seek help with delusions and hallucinations like that.

Its fact--Michael stood up when he came to earth and is still standing up for Gods chosen=spiritual Israel, not literal Israel. Dan 12 is about these last days -Jesus is Gods appointed king, it is him standing up. Like at the war in heaven. Jesus is Michael, and when Jesus returns to earth leading Gods armies he comes with the voice of the archangel( 1 Thess 4:16) it is his voice.

 

[GLASNOST]

Judaism is a religion, not a philosophy.

All religions are fundamentally theological philosophies, prophesying, ie. the endeavours of prophets.

Christianity is effectively a sect of Judaism.

I've been saying that for the past 50 years.

By any objective measure Western Civilization was founded on the principles of Christianity and by Christians. No other institution played a greater roile in shaping Western Civilization than the HRCC.

No, I cannot agree with that. Judaism is the founder of monotheism from which the cults of Christianity and Islam were derived. Judaism has, all through the ages, contributed far, far more to Western Civilization than Christianity.

 

[ding]

All religions are fundamentally theological philosophies, prophesying, ie. the endeavours of prophets.

Yes, THEOLOGICAL philosophies.

The definition of theological is the study of religious faith, practice, and experience especially : the study of God and of God's relation to the world.

I've been saying that for the past 50 years.

Excellent, then we agree on that.

No, I cannot agree with that. Judaism is the founder of monotheism from which the cults of Christianity and Islam were derived. Judaism has, all through the ages, contributed far, far more to Western Civilization than Christianity.

Yes, Judaism was the beginning of monotheism. No argument there. But by any objective measure Western Civilization was built on Christian principles by Christians.

• Modern science was born in the Catholic Church
• Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market economics five hundred years before Adam Smith
• The Catholic Church invented the university
• Western law grew out of Church canon law
• The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life

 

[GLASNOST]

Its fact--Michael stood up when he came to earth .....

I'm sure these FACTS of yours are to be found within the pages of credible accounts by writers such as:

Michael Moorcock
Brian Aldiss
Edgar Allan Poe
Voltaire
H. P. Lovecraft
Carl Sagan
Kingsley Amis
Gene Roddenberry
Jonathan Swift
L. Ron Hubbard
Franz Kafka
Isaac Asimov
George Orwell
John Wyndham
Saki
Stephen King
Roald Dahl
George Lucas
Monty Python
Steven Spielberg
H. G. Wells
Cyrano de Bergerac
Rod Serling
Ray Bradbury
Kurt Vonnegut Junior
Charles Baudelaire
Aldous Huxley

 

[GLASNOST]

Yes, THEOLOGICAL philosophies.The definition of theological is the study of religious faith, practice, and experience especially : the study of God and of God's relation to the world.

As I said, "All religions" including Judaism.

... by any objective measure Western Civilization was built on Christian principles by Christians.

• Modern science was born in the Catholic Church
• Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market economics five hundred years before Adam Smith
• The Catholic Church invented the university
• Western law grew out of Church canon law
• The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life

No. If you insinuate that the US (for example) is a "Christan county" and therefore anything the US accomplishes is because of Christian principles then I am wasting my time discussing the subject with you. Use your head.

 

[JohnDB]

Let us( YHWH and his master worker) create man in our image)--(Proverbs 8 = Gods master worker. He tells you he was created, It says-God grew especially fond of me. And he advises all to listen to him. The only one deserving the title-master worker is the one whom God created all other things through. This is the being YHWH sent to earth and was named Jesus as a mortal)
Daniel 12:1 teaches it is Michael who stands up for the sons of Daniel( Israel) And he did that when he came to earth for them as Jesus. 1Thess 4:16--Upon Jesus return he comes with the voice of the archangel) it is his voice. Michael rides the white horse in the war of heaven, Jesus rides the white horse at Har-mageddon, its the same ride it does not end until this point-1Corinthians 15: 24-28) Jesus hands back the kingdom to his God and Father and subjects himself.--- Fact--God does not have a God-Jesus does(John 20:17, Rev 3:12) Fact-- God is in subjection to none ever. Proving 100% no trinity god exists.

Thats the Jehovah Witnesses viewpoint...

They are not a Christian religion.

There are no Christian churches in existence that consider them as such. Because to every Christian religion and denomination Jesus is God....

And if Jesus is not God in your religion you are not a Christian. Moslems don't consider themselves Christian. Hindus don't consider themselves Christian. But both Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses are not considered Christian by everyone else on the planet.