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Jesus Can Not Be Defeated.

ding

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hobelim

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I hate using the word supernatural in this context because most people ascribe it's meaning as mystical or magic, when in fact it only means beyond nature.


Every so called miracle of Jesus can be explained without any need for the supernatural.

Everything from opening the eyes of the blind, cleansing lepers, raising the dead, healing the sick, curing the paralyzed, to feeding the multitude and turning water into wine, etc. can be explained in a rational way that conforms to actual reality. No need to "just believe" in supernatural bullshit

The unknown authors were just using well known literary tools for teaching. Homonyms, parables, metaphors, analogies, hyperbole, talking snakes, donkeys, etc...

is that too hard to believe?
 
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Sorry, Jag, I usually don't insert myself into these kinds of threads but that is not quite right.

TRUE: God cannot be defeated. There is no beating God. Not even Lucifer can defeat God because God is the beginning, he is the end, he is the war and warrior, he is the axe, and he is the battle-shield. You can no more defeat God than you can put fire out with fire.

NOT TRUE: That Jesus is God. Jesus is not God but a plenary portion of him put on Earth for a time to better relate to the people. Jesus was put on this Earth as flesh and bone that ordinary man could see and touch and they thanked him by crucifying him. Jesus is now back in heaven with God. Jesus is kind of like God's lieutenant.

Jesus can and was defeated by the Governor of Judea who ordered his execution and can be defeated by simple human denial and ignorance. Jesus was and is a river of knowledge leading back to God but no one can make anyone drink from the river, it is always up to the individual.
"NOT TRUE: That Jesus is God. Jesus is not God"___Toobfreak
In my world the issue of the Holy Trinity is settled. And NOT up for discussion.
Its a closed subject. I ignore all points to the contrary as if they did not exist.

Best Regards.

JAG


``
 

ding

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hobelim

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I ignore all points to the contrary as if they did not exist.


lol....

1632262879363.png
 

ding

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toobfreak

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Everything from opening the eyes of the blind, cleansing lepers, raising the dead, healing the sick, curing the paralyzed, to feeding the multitude and turning water into wine, etc. can be explained in a rational way that conforms to actual reality. No need to "just believe" in supernatural bullshit

If by that you mean that no occult mysticism was needed, then I agree.

But if you are implying Jesus was a con man and that these were all gimmicks or illusions, or maybe misperceptions by the ancients around them who just mistook it for divine acts, then you are losing me. Jesus was not an accident nor any magician.

Just because you can find a way of explaining a possible way these things might have occurred or been seen as described without actual divine power does not mean that is what actually happened.
 

toobfreak

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In my world
In YOUR world? Not THE world?

the issue of the Holy Trinity is settled.
Actually, it has never been settled. There was no Holy Trinity in ancient times and as I recall, the concept of the Holy Ghost did not begin to appear in text until many hundreds of years long after Christ.

And NOT up for discussion. Its a closed subject. I ignore all points to the contrary
Then you really had no business starting this thread asking people their thoughts and opinions! Stop wasting my time.
 

hobelim

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If by that you mean that no occult mysticism was needed, then I agree.

But if you are implying Jesus was a con man and that these were all gimmicks or illusions, or maybe misperceptions by the ancients around them who just mistook it for divine acts, then you are losing me. Jesus was not an accident nor any magician.

Just because you can find a way of explaining a possible way these things might have occurred or been seen as described without actual divine power does not mean that is what actually happened.


Yes. There was no occult mysticism, gimmicks or illusions, and no, Jesus was not a con man.

Let me give you an example.

When Jesus cured the blindman first he wrote something on the ground, made a paste with spit and mud, put it over the man's eyes and then put his hand over that and then asked him what he saw.

First the man saw trees, then after Jesus told him to take a harder look, he finally saw men.

How could the man see anything with spit mud and a hand over his eyes? This was obviously a healing of perception, not sight. This is what actually happened. There is no other rational explanation that conforms to reality.

A miracle! No supernatural power, magic, or deception involved. Jesus was not a magician.

Jesus was teaching the blind man how to think deeply enough to perceive the deeper meaning of the metaphors used in scripture where men are often compared to trees as in the garden of Eden where there were many trees with fruit that was pleasing to the eye and good to eat, the fruit of the mind.


Teachers all over the world teach children how to see in this way every day.
 
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ding

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Yes. There was no occult mysticism, gimmicks or illusions, and no, Jesus was not a con man.

Let me give you an example.

When Jesus cured the blindman first he wrote something on the ground, made a paste with spit and mud, put it over the man's eyes and then put his hand over that and then asked him what he saw.

First the man saw trees, then after Jesus told him to take a harder look, he finally saw men.

How could the man see anything with spit mud and a hand over his eyes? This was obviously a healing of perception, not sight. This is what actually happened. There is no other rational explanation that conforms to reality.

A miracle! No supernatural power, magic, or deception involved. Jesus was not a magician.

Jesus was teaching the blind man how to think deeply enough to perceive the deeper meaning of the metaphors used in scripture where men are often compared to trees as in the garden of Eden where there were many trees with fruit that was pleasing to the eye and good to eat, the fruit of the mind.


Teachers all over the world teach children how to see in this way every day.
Do another one.
 

ding

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Yes. There was no occult mysticism, gimmicks or illusions, and no, Jesus was not a con man.

Let me give you an example.

When Jesus cured the blindman first he wrote something on the ground, made a paste with spit and mud, put it over the man's eyes and then put his hand over that and then asked him what he saw.

First the man saw trees, then after Jesus told him to take a harder look, he finally saw men.

How could the man see anything with spit mud and a hand over his eyes? This was obviously a healing of perception, not sight. This is what actually happened. There is no other rational explanation that conforms to reality.

A miracle! No supernatural power, magic, or deception involved. Jesus was not a magician.

Jesus was teaching the blind man how to think deeply enough to perceive the deeper meaning of the metaphors used in scripture where men are often compared to trees as in the garden of Eden where there were many trees with fruit that was pleasing to the eye and good to eat, the fruit of the mind.


Teachers all over the world teach children how to see in this way every day.
Jesus responds...


24 If I had not done works among them that no one else ever did, they would not have sin; but as it is, they have seen and hated both me and my Father.
 

hobelim

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If I had not done works among them that no one else ever did, they would not have sin; but as it is, they have seen and hated both me and my Father.


lol... yes. Ever since the death of Moses no one had been able to find or reveal the hidden teaching of the law much less open the eyes of the uneducated to it which removed the sin associated with not complying with the law correctly and cleared the way to eternal life for all those who had the sense and faith of an 8 year old with a second grade education to actually do it..

I suppose that leaves you out......Didn't your mother teach you how to understand metaphors in fairy tales? Were you sleeping in kindergarten? Didn't pay attention in the first or second grade?

Never took a course in literature? Did you forget what you learned in 9th grade science? Damn.

Again, if you weren't such an asshole I would feel sorry for you...
 
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ding

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lol... yes. Ever since the death of Moses no one had been able to find or reveal the hidden teaching of the law much less open the eyes of the uneducated to it which removed the sin associated with not complying with the law correctly and cleared the way to eternal life for all those who had the sense and faith of an 8 year old with a second grade education to actually do it..

I suppose that leaves you out......Didn't your mother teach you how to understand metaphors in fairy tales? Were you sleeping in kindergarten? Didn't pay attention in the first or second grade?

Never took a course in literature? Did you forget what you learned in 9th grade science? Damn.

Again, if you weren't such an asshole I would feel sorry for you...
Apparently Jesus believed what he did were miracles.

If I had not done works among them that no one else ever did...
 

ding

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lol... yes. Ever since the death of Moses no one had been able to find or reveal the hidden teaching of the law much less open the eyes of the uneducated to it which removed the sin associated with not complying with the law correctly and cleared the way to eternal life for all those who had the sense and faith of an 8 year old with a second grade education to actually do it..

I suppose that leaves you out......Didn't your mother teach you how to understand metaphors in fairy tales? Were you sleeping in kindergarten? Didn't pay attention in the first or second grade?

Never took a course in literature? Did you forget what you learned in 9th grade science? Damn.

Again, if you weren't such an asshole I would feel sorry for you...
And Jesus represented himself as God too...

Jesus answered, “I told you that I AM.
 

ding

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lol... yes. Ever since the death of Moses no one had been able to find or reveal the hidden teaching of the law much less open the eyes of the uneducated to it which removed the sin associated with not complying with the law correctly and cleared the way to eternal life for all those who had the sense and faith of an 8 year old with a second grade education to actually do it..

I suppose that leaves you out......Didn't your mother teach you how to understand metaphors in fairy tales? Were you sleeping in kindergarten? Didn't pay attention in the first or second grade?

Never took a course in literature? Did you forget what you learned in 9th grade science? Damn.

Again, if you weren't such an asshole I would feel sorry for you...
And that he was fully God and fully man....

…The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the [Messiah], the Son of God.""Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
 

ding

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lol... yes. Ever since the death of Moses no one had been able to find or reveal the hidden teaching of the law much less open the eyes of the uneducated to it which removed the sin associated with not complying with the law correctly and cleared the way to eternal life for all those who had the sense and faith of an 8 year old with a second grade education to actually do it..

I suppose that leaves you out......Didn't your mother teach you how to understand metaphors in fairy tales? Were you sleeping in kindergarten? Didn't pay attention in the first or second grade?

Never took a course in literature? Did you forget what you learned in 9th grade science? Damn.

Again, if you weren't such an asshole I would feel sorry for you...
And your knee will bend to Jesus.
 

hobelim

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Apparently Jesus believed what he did were miracles.

If I had not done works among them that no one else ever did...

Miracles was no concern of Jesus. They were signs. Signs that he was the awaited messiah who was expected to convey the meaning of God's commands thereby leading people to eternal life in the sanctuary of God, the promise for the righteous who always do what God commands.
 

hobelim

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And that he was fully God and fully man....

…The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the [Messiah], the Son of God.""Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."


There is no claim of being God in what you quoted. Son of God in fact makes a clear distinction between the messiah and God.
 

ding

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There is no claim of being God in what you quoted. Son of God in fact makes a clear distinction between the messiah and God.
Jesus answered, “I told you that I AM."
 

ding

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Miracles was no concern of Jesus. They were signs. Signs that he was the awaited messiah who was expected to convey the meaning of God's commands thereby leading people to eternal life in the sanctuary of God, the promise for the righteous who always do what God commands.
That's not what Jesus said.

And if your knee does not bend to him, according to Jesus you will be discarded.

"Anyone who does not remain in me will be thrown out like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will be burned."
 

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